BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 07:11 PM

"I'd bet my pension they'll still be blaming the last Labour government for the world-wide financial crash of 2008 at the next election in 2020."

That's only 12 years, you-lefties are still blaming Margaret Thatcher for every damn thing under the sun and she left office a quarter of a century ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 07:33 PM

Er, well she did set in train the deregulation of the financial sector (a policy that I fully acknowledge was enthusiastically continued by Blair, before you start having a go). She sowed the seed for the irresponsible behaviour that led to the crash. Of course the crews that followed her didn't have to follow her, but they did. It's all history now, of course, Teribus.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 07:52 PM

"She sowed the seed for the irresponsible behaviour that led to the crash."

Complete and utter bullshit - the "crash" had its origins in the USA nothing whatsoever to do with Margaret Thatcher. Nothing at all irresponsible in buying debt on the understanding that that debt was guaranteed by the US Federal Reserve Bank - only thing was the US Fed knew nothing about it - but it was on Clinton's watch that that kite was flown via the real estate mortgage brokers Fanny Mae and Freddie Mack. That is all history too Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 08:12 PM

still blaming Margaret Thatcher

And not without good reason. Why am I not surprised that Teribyte is a Thatcher apologist and fantasist? Bet he thinks Pinochet was a helluva guy, too!

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 09:33 PM

No worries, Greg. We have progress here. He's blaming yanks, not Gordon Brown. If he and his Daily Mail ilk had done that five years ago, we wouldn't have been doomed to at least ten years of Torydom. It's never too late to welcome home the prodigal son, though I'd want to put him through a thorough disinfection regime first...

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 01:11 AM

Please don't get me wrong Steve the seeds of the "crash" in 2008 were sown in the USA in 1998, Gordon Brown was a financially irresponsible twat throughout all 13 years of the Blair/Brown era (Pension raids and selling off gold at bargain basement prices in order to "buy" votes). I have very little time for "professional" politicians and that is what Gordon Brown was. Maggie on the other hand was voted into office with the country in ruins and she did what she had to do for the good of the country not the Conservative Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 01:31 AM

The point I was making, dear Teribus, was that they will still be propagating a complete lie that Labour 'caused' the world-wide financial crash - a lie which they made repeatedly during the 2015 election, and which the gormless and feeble-minded 'Daily Mail' and 'Sun' readers will continue to be sucked in by.

And yes, The Beast of Grantham is responsible for problems which still exist today - like selling off social housing, which led to the situation we have with the housing shortage, and rapacious private landlords able to charge extortionate rents.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 02:22 AM

"selling off social housing, which led to the situation we have with the housing shortage, and rapacious private landlords able to charge extortionate rents."

Due to rent acts and rent controls town and city councils could not afford to maintain their properties which were rapidly turning into slums and bankrupting those town and city councils creating economic stagnation and paralysis. Maybe they should have rebelled and ripped the rent controls up and charged realistic rents, but they didn't, their other route was to keep the rents as they were and then get those who owned their own homes to subsidise those in "social housing" which led to the ludicrous situation where a widow on a pension was subsidising a family consisting of four wage earners living in a council house not giving a toss about the fabric of the building or looking after it.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 04:00 AM

Teribus, the abolition of the dividend tax credit was not a "pension raid", it was the correction of an anomaly and was supported at the time by, amongst others the CBI. The raid was by companies taking contributions holidays. See:

http://www.stephenbeer.com/Articles/165151/Stephen_Beer/Economy/Dont_blame_Brown.aspx

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 04:52 AM

"you-lefties are still blaming Margaret Thatcher for every damn thing under the sun and she left office a quarter of a century ago."

Yes, we are, because Thatcher was responsible for introducing the pernicious ideology of the neo-liberal free market to this country. This wicked, self-serving nonsense has led to our society becoming ever more deeply divided as the 'un-regulated' rich get richer and richer at the expense of the less well-off. Neo-liberalism also continues to damage our, already badly damaged, environment as the super-rich 'locusts' continue to voraciously devour it with no thought for future generations.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 05:15 AM

"
Yes, we are, because Thatcher was responsible for introducing the pernicious ideology of the neo-liberal free market to this country. This wicked, self-serving nonsense has led to our society becoming ever more deeply divided as the 'un-regulated' rich get richer and richer at the expense of the less well-off."

Unfortunately Shim, if we continue to vote to live in this sort of society, we are going to have capitalist economics.

Mrs Thatcher had many serious decisions to make, our manufacturing was obsolete, as Mr T says our housing stock was in ruins, our middle class was dispirited, she went for personal financial aspiration the driving force of capitalist economics......she had no option, given that the UK in my lifetime has never even looked like embracing real socialism with the loss of personal "freedom" that it entails.

Mrs Thatcher bought time for the system AND for the people of this country......One important point applies whether we are a capitalist or socialist nation.... we must support ourselves, either by increased production by financial aspiration, or a lowering of our wasteful living standards throughout the most of society. This would be very difficult to accomplish, given the guaranteed opposition of the rich, the middle class, the media, and most importantly.....the "liberal" Left.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 09:17 AM

Well said Akenaton.

Whinge on Shimrod:
Thatcher was responsible for introducing the pernicious ideology of the neo-liberal free market to this country."

And the clowns you obviously took a part in electing to power for three successive Parliaments did what? S.F.A., because when landed with the real problems of actually running the country the realisation suddenly dawned on them that she had been right all along. But where she lead and took decisions based on what was good for the nation as a whole irrespective of the damage to the popularity of her party, your clowns thought only of party first, national interest and well being second.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 09:32 AM

Ah Steven Beer's Blog - not exactly objective or impartial Dave. The pension raid by Brown in 1997 was an unmitigated disaster - not for Civil Servants and politicians though - their final salary pensions paid by those Brown robbed in 1997 are still secure.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 06:16 PM

Teribus, it's time to start thinking about your New Year's resolution. How about making yours, something like: "In 2016, I resolve to be a much less arrogant and patronising git"?

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 03:26 AM

And time Shimrod for you to start thinking for yourself instead of trotting out the left-wing rhetoric of a bankrupt and disproven political ideology that is tired, worn out, cliched and well past it's "sell by date":

" Thatcher was responsible for introducing the pernicious ideology of the neo-liberal free market to this country."

My giddy Aunt will you just read that out loud and listen to yourself FFS – Oh, hang on to do that you'd first have to remove your head from your arse.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 03:34 AM

Fascinating.

History revision isn't even waiting the obligatory hundred years now. Th*tcher being rehabilitated by the Mudcat Conservative party. President -Terribulus. Gopher-Akenaton.

You'll never persuade people of bollocks whilst ever living memory knows otherwise. Why do you think the establishment waited till most of the soldiers died before rehabilitating disgraced incompetent leadership in WW1?

You can reduce the welfare bill by creating wealth or starving people. Th*tcher stripped our industrial base, as guided by the nasty buggers pulling her strings and never came up with an equivalent. Gordon Brown on the other hand led the world leaders in averting the worst of the 2008 global crash. I doubt any Little Britain Westminster attitude could or would have the vision to have done that. There again, nobody else would have flogged off the gold at below market price.

Yin and yang really.

We are the worlds fourth largest economy in just about every indicator. This shouldn't be about lowering it as sorting out the equitable distribution.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 03:47 AM

Come on then Musktwat tell us all how you would create wealth.

The UK's biggest problem long term is that Labour has taken what was supposed to be a system that provided help when needed on a temporary basis to tide people over into what is now a lifestyle to be demanded by right.

To create wealth first you have to work - there are plenty of jobs if you want to look for them - unfortunately our "native" population feel that such work is beneath them and besides they can "earn more" through our benefits system sitting on your backside at home so why bother.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 05:00 AM

It is a real problem.
Paying people to do nothing is one of the most expensive aspects of "welfare"......and it isn't really welfare at all, for without a purpose in life people become even more dispirited and self centred.

Like our monolithic industries of the sixties, people them selves are beginning to become obsolete, other than to be part of an even more monolithic and dispiriting "service sector", with little job satisfaction .....or even wealth generation.

As I have said many times, the culture of "self" has been encouraged, but only a tiny minority can ever achieve what they aspire to.
In place of achievement we are doled out personal social rights, completely meaningless in the real world, but designed to placate the intellectually challenged while the fabric of society crumbles around them,
Society is the only thing that can save us, but it must be a sane sustainable society which can give everyone a purpose and a reason to start giving, rather than forever taking.

The culture of "victimhood" should be banished.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 05:53 AM

" To create wealth first you have to work - there are plenty of jobs if you want to look for them"

Come on everybody, dig out your bicycle clips it's time to go for a ride.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 06:25 AM

So, Teribus, I suppose there's no alternative to trashing the planet and while we wait for the apocalypse reducing the population to serfdom. As a result of your harsh but wise tutelage, I see it all now!

Oh yes - and although it's none of your f**king business who I f**king vote for - I haven't voted Labour since Blair. I despise them as much as you do - but probably for different reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 06:43 AM

So Shimrod my assumption of your voting record was correct between 1997 and 2010 you did vote for Labour on three occasions - For Blair in 1997; for Blair 2001; for Blair again in 2005.

Reducing the population to serfdom - my arse. Don't know what age you are you prat, I tend towards you being either retired or very close to it. Take a bloody good look around you and at the world in general, by every metric going people in general are a damn sight better off today than they were 50 years ago.

But please do tell us all how far you personally are down the road to serfdom.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 06:47 AM

Comment 1. (Shimrod)- I haven't voted Labour since Blair. I despise them as much as you do - but probably for different reasons.

Comment 2. (Teribus)- So Shimrod my assumption of your voting record was correct between 1997 and 2010 you did vote for Labour on three occasions - For Blair in 1997; for Blair 2001; for Blair again in
2005.


Is it me?????

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 08:00 AM

The "benefits lifestyle" has always been a myth and it's an even bigger one now. Housing benefit, probably easily the largest element of payments to recipients (many of whom are in work anyway), goes straight into the pockets of landlords who are already enjoying all manner of tax reliefs. Out of work benefits have always been meagre. And let's not forget that Thatcher started the culture of pushing perfectly fit people on to incapacity benefit (when she was closing down whole industries and destroying communities) so that they wouldn't show up in the unemployment figures. The biggest recipients of benefits in this country are the huge, obscenely profitable employers who not only employ armies of accountants to avoid tax but also pay so little that the rest of us have to subsidise the wages the pay via in-work benefits. Round here, a couple working full time on the average wage for Cornwall (which is pennies per hour above the legal minimum) can hardly afford to rent a bog-standard two-bed house on an estate. They got on their bikes and are "doing the right thing." Trouble is, Teribus, you read the right papers for you but the wrong ones for the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 09:51 AM

Glad to know, Steve, that it isn't just U.S. morons who rabbit on about "Welfare Cadillacs" ( got Reagan - Thatchers soul-mate elected!) and other shibboleths regarding the poor.

Or maybe "glad" isn't the right choice of words.....

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 10:20 AM

"Is it me?????"

No, Raggytash, it's an arrogant, patronising Tory tw*t.

All your bluster and bar-room, Daily Mail inspired 'economic theorising', Teribus can't hide the fact that you and your fellow Tory tw*ts are all gigantic snobs. What you really want to see is the people, who you regard as belonging to the 'lower orders', kept in their place. You do realise though, don't you, that the Old Etonians at the top regard you and your ilk as belonging to the lower orders - and they'll be coming for you next!

And you don't like the fact that I despise the neo-liberal, free market economic dogma that is currently wrecking our society and the planet? Well, I have listened to myself and I find myself in full agreement with the Canadian journalist and author, Naomi Klein who sums it up very nicely, I think, by calling neo-liberalism a "licence to steal".

Ms Klein used that phrase in her book, 'This Changes Everything' which is about climate change. And that should remind us that no politician - of whatever hue - has the faintest clue what to do about the appalling mess that our species (and our current economic systems)has made of our environment. Although our current crop of politicians probably think, in private, that the environment is irrelevant it still keeps rising relentlessly up the political agenda (which is why they're all in Paris this week). Just think, Teribus, in another couple of generations your pathetic 'poor bashing' will be irrelevant as the sterilised, de-nuded continents sink beneath the waves.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 10:53 AM

Actually Greg, not many people do begrudge the UK welfare system, but the present government thought up till last week that the loud but ignorant pigs represented a majority of views. Their climb down suggests they are waking up to the idea that they cannot rely on the likes of Teribus forever.

You don't educate pork. You laugh at it then get on with your life.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 11:06 AM

that the loud but ignorant pigs represented a majority of views.

Sounds remarkably like the spew that comes out of Republicans this side of the pond.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 11:21 AM

"Housing benefit, probably easily the largest element of payments to recipients (many of whom are in work anyway), goes straight into the pockets of landlords"

Housing benefit does not get paid directly to the landlords, it would solve one hell of a lot of problems if it was.

Shimrod still trotting out the left-wing rhetoric of a bankrupt and disproven political ideology that is tired, worn out, cliched and well past it's "sell by date".

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 11:31 AM

Oh Shimrod you didn't tell us how far down the road you are in becoming a serf.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 11:32 AM

"Shimrod still trotting out the left-wing rhetoric of a bankrupt and disproven political ideology that is tired, worn out, cliched and well past it's "sell by date"."

You didn't read a word of what I wrote, did you Teribus? But what should I expect - you probably think that I belong to the 'lower orders' and should know my place!

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 12:35 PM

Teribus seems to proving his place with every bit of comedy he writes.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 12:41 PM

I'm afraid Teribus is right Shimrod, it is impossible to implement real socialism within a capitalist economic system.
So long as we continue to believe in the lottery, we are stuck with Capitalism, and by far the most efficient way of making it work is by electing a right wing government.....the circus on the "liberal" left gives a false prospective and is a huge aid to those who have vested interests in the retention of Capitalism.
There are millions without a purpose redundant, uneconomic, but hey ho! we have "gay marriage".....so that's alright then, the Tories are really liberal aren't they?   do you think the people who run this system really give a damn about minority "rights"

So long as the liberal left stick to their "belief" that equality can be achieved within a capitalist system, we are totally fucked.
The liberal left are without doubt the biggest impediment to the construction of a SANE, fair and sustainable society.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 01:02 PM

Of course I didn't take any notice of what you wrote Shimrod - it was absolute nonsense. Now come on you obviously believe in all that claptrap so tell, say in the last few years since the last Labour Government was in power and completely fucked up the country's finances how much more of a serf do you feel now than say in March 2010. There must be some way of measuring YOUR descent into serfdom - I say "yours" because you see I feel and see no difference at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 01:44 PM

Teribus, you still haven't explained how you could equate the two comments I highlighted a few hours ago.


Comment 1. (Shimrod)- I haven't voted Labour since Blair. I despise them as much as you do - but probably for different reasons.

Comment 2. (Teribus)- So Shimrod my assumption of your voting record was correct between 1997 and 2010 you did vote for Labour on three occasions - For Blair in 1997; for Blair 2001; for Blair again in 2005.

Are you once again going to ignore you stupidity.

Just asking like !

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 02:22 PM

serfing here. i work supporting people disabled people in west cumbria. just a few changes in my life. myself and my colleagues work for slightly above the minimum wage. whereas there was an increase in spending on public services in the previous government, this never got through to the care sector and particularly the growing number of outsourced 'independent' providers. so pay, in real terms, has declined from a very low start.

while it has always been the case that people needing support have had to do with dwindling resources and little choice over the care they get - this has accelerated in recent years with more cuts on the way. it is never the case that a review asks 'what is the best possible care we can give mr X?' always 'what can we afford' and increasingly 'we can't afford anything'

last week i was trying to negotiate a proper sick pay system for workers doing often challenging work. sick pay is now not often part of a worker's pay and conditions in the private care system - even if i was injured in my job. i believe this is something that is a real change from a few years back when a sick pay system was part of every employers'responsibility.

i've been in hospital in cumbria and -10 years back -in aberdeen. the difference in staffing and resources is shocking and very worrying.

these are just a few major differences i've noticed. i've also read naomi klein 'the shock doctrine' so well understand that -since thatcher, reagan, pinochet and the 'chicago boys' that the free marketeers have been actively engaged in shrinking and privatising the state (all over the world) obviously, blair etc was complicit in this to some degree (PPI, privatisation, anti-trade union laws etc) but did at least try to fund services adequately. i don't think they should have used public funds to bail out the corrupt capitalist system - but it was quite good (if expensive) satire. and what thanks do they get?
these days, of course we will lose important parts of what makes our country a good place to live. i never thought i would miss those old tory wets - but i do. i see no prominent figure in the current government who sees the need to speak to 'one nation' britain, and no-one trying to put a break on their extremism. they have no interest in the result of their policies or how they effect those less fortunate than themselves.
those people can push for the right to drop bombs on our allies in syria in the hope of hitting an occasional enemy target. i don't think it will go that far with the poorer parts of this country but the contempt for people is not much different....

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 02:29 PM

Well, that clears up whose side Akenhateon is on - and it's not that of everyman.

Nice to see Terribilis getting universally shat on for his lies and hatred.

Nice to see Mither regretting his former Bliarism.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 05:04 PM

Achmelvich....who exactly are "our allies in Syria"? Are they the same allies we had in Libya?

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 05:14 PM

Richard, I don't see the "game/war" as between Labour and Tory, that is for dim wits.

I suppose you have worked that out, but oh well cant pass up the chance for a bit of name calling, can we.

People like you are the problem, but I don't suppose you really want change either.....better add lawyers to my list.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 07:56 PM

Get real, Teribus. If you don't pay the private landlord the housing benefit money you receive, you get evicted. It may pass through your hands but the landlord will make damn sure he gets all of it off you. He knows what you get, he thinks it's rightfully his and there are no controls on him. By far the biggest beneficiaries of our having a welfare state are the landlords, the loan sharks and the big companies who don't pay decent wages.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 08:39 PM

That's a total straw man Akenhateon - throw your lot in with Terribilis and you are the enemy of everyman - nothing to do with (as our UKRAP friends would say) "LibLabCon".

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 02:44 AM

'our allies in syria' are ordinary people there who only want to live in peace in a functioning democracy. not david cameron's imaginary moderate army.
they have close links with hundreds of thousands of iraqis who we carpet bombed in order to liberate them from saddam hussein.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 03:11 AM

I have lots of regrets Bridge. Mainly when I foolishly took on legal advice on many occasions against my better judgement.

But with regard to Bliarism, I voted and hoped for a pragmatic government that realised the role of government includes looking after everybody but also realised where the funds to do so come from.

I wasn't wrong.

A bit like when you were a Tory. You saw the logic of one nation. Me? I would never ever sink as low as voting Tory though. Unlike you my weird friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 04:11 AM

No, Teribus, I'm not a serf - but then it's not just about me, me, me is it (like it probably is for you, you selfish Tory tw*t)? I got out of the work place 10 years ago - or rather I was pushed out through redundancy. Luckily, by that time, I had more or less paid off my mortgage and had accrued a decent pension. I was in the right place, at the right time, but I fear, for the generations that come after me, the world will become increasingly like the one depicted by achmelvich above.

And Akenaton, there HAS to be an alternative to evil Tory tw*tishness - people and the planet can't support rampant neo-liberalism for much longer.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 05:13 AM

Bear in mind, Mither, that back when I was young and foolish, "one-nation" conservatives were in general further left than Tony B. Liar, who badly failed to reverse conservative rhetoric or to provide effectively for those at the bottom of the heap. You got it wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 05:24 AM

Shimrod, Of course there is an alternative, but the "liberals" hate it even more than they hate the Conservatives :0) Why??

There was this guy Cammpanela who lived six hundred years ago and he knew the answer

THE PEOPLE is a beast of muddy brain
That knows not its own strength, and therefore stands
Loaded with wood and stone; the powerless hands
Of a mere child guide it with bit and rein;
One kick would be enough to break the chain,         5
But the beast fears, and what the child demands
It does; nor its own terror understands,
Confused and stupefied by bugbears vain.
Most wonderful! With its own hand it ties
And gags itself—gives itself death and war         10
For pence doled out by kings from its own store.
Its own are all things between earth and heaven;
But this it knows not; and if one arise
To tell this truth, it kills him unforgiven.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 06:26 AM

"I haven't voted Labour since Blair."

Since Blair left office? Which would make it 2007 so old Shim would have voted Labour in 1997, 2001 and 2005.

Or since Blair became leader of the party - Shimrod was somewhat less than clear - seems to be endemic and Shimrod hasn't seen fit to clarify.

Steve Shaw - 30 Nov 15 - 07:56 PM - Ehmmm NO Steve, any idea how long it takes to evict someone? Can take months. Cases of tenants arriving in one place, getting placed by the council then spending their "housing benefit" on anything but housing and not paying landlords. Eviction procedures then put in train, taking up to five months to effect eviction in which time not a penny is paid. The tenants then leave the property in such a state the landlord has to completely redecorate and the tenants move to another place and repeat the exercise.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 06:36 AM

"I was young and foolish..,"

At least you're not young any more Bridge.

We can't all get it right. After all, what is right for you isn't right for most, what is right for Akenaton isn't acceptable and what is right for Terribulus can be seen by the vindictive, devisive, blinkered government we have now.

Getting it right isn't easy. Steve Shaw supports Liverpool, for Clapton's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 06:49 AM

(Shimrod)- "I haven't voted Labour since Blair. I despise them as much as you do - but probably for different reasons." (The full quote)

(Territowelling) "Since Blair left office? Which would make it 2007 so old Shim would have voted Labour in 1997, 2001 and 2005"

Try again Teribums, if Shimrod hasn't voted labour since Blair he would NOT have voted labour in 1997, 2001, 2005 or even 2007 because Blair didn't resign until AFTER the election.

You are very much like your mate, twisting words to your own warped logic.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 07:24 AM

Hi Raggy, just for once in your life try to use a bit of reasoning and logic for a change. Are you really trying to tell us that Shimrod - ardent supporter of the left (According to his statements) after 18 years of Conservative Governments in 1997 with Blair leading the Labour Party Shimrod did not vote to do everything he could to ensure a Labour victory?

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing the UK welfare bill
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 07:36 AM

If Shimrod says he hasn't voted Labour since Blair why should I disbelieve him.