BS: Fear WITH Guns

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Dec 15 - 11:35 AM

1. I own and shoot firearms.
2. They are stored, unloaded and with a trigger lock, in a locked steel cabinet.
3. Whatever ammunition I have is similarly stored elsewhere.
4. There are no children in my house and they rarely, if ever, visit.
5. I do not brag about having them and consider them tools for an Olympic-sanctioned sport that I enjoy -- target shooting.
6. I would fully support a system of gun control that was well considered and well thought out instead of a mish-mash cobbled together in reaction to events.
7. I am not, nor have I ever been, a member of the National Rifle Association, although I do support their work in firearms safety.

Please read this. It is well considered.

As for Ebbie's original question: cops get frightened too, but they are supposedly trained to cope with that and other things.Training is imperative, but there must also be a psychological makeup that rejects the immediate use of force.

British police started unarmed, but with armed backup, because the people were afraid of police in the "French style." Robert Peel did arm them, very briefly, in the beginning, but it was found that the general level of cop was very low. Although it was required, many could not read or write. Over a couple of centuries this evolved into a very good police force indeed.

A better example might be the German police force -- you might want to check out the training that this armed police force goes through.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Dec 15 - 12:13 PM

I read the article.... it says essentially what I have been saying in posts here for several years.

It says that 'only reduction in the number of guns would seriously reduce the number of deaths'... then it says that although there IS a legal, constitutional way to make a reduction, there's little chance of actually doing it because of the mind-set of too many people.

That mind-set is pushed by those who have a financial interest to go along with their personal mind-set, and who essentially BUY a large enough % of congress to keep reform from happening. (This situation, as I have said before, is made possible by the "states rights" configuration of our basic political system.)

Short version... it's a vicious circle.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Dec 15 - 12:46 PM

Yep, that's how it seems to me, Bill.
It will take a lot of education and a revolution in the mindset of many - perhaps the vast majority - of Americans before anything will change.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world looks on with chins on chests in utter disbelief that a nation that prides itself on being the home of the brave and the land of the free is apparently happy to accept such stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Dec 15 - 02:17 PM

CNN is reporting that Obama issuing eexecutive order to fix the gun show loophole.

Dan, I'm sure the Repubs will mount a campaign to override it.

I would fully support a system of gun control that was well considered and well thought out instead of a mish-mash cobbled together in reaction to events.

Rap, exactly why a single FEDERAL nationwide statute is needed to supercede & override the mish-mash of ineffective State legislation.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: olddude
Date: 31 Dec 15 - 03:06 PM

Nail on the head Greg exactly

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: GUEST,TS
Date: 01 Jan 16 - 03:52 PM

A question: Does not the large number of handgun visuals (often dark in color and close up) often seen in US TV dramas not seem similar
to cigarette smoking in days gone by that was actively promoted by tobacco companies? Or would it not seem reasonable to just back off with those visuals for the sake of human lives?

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Jan 16 - 04:24 PM

I doubt that those scenes, GUEST TS, has the same impact of playing a "shooter" video game over and over. I won't discount it, as a very large number of factors are in play. I very much wish that the gun (and violence in general) wasn't viewed as the sole means to solve problems. Yes, explosions and gunshots and car chases are exciting (to young minds anyway), but what is shown in the movies and videos are not what nearly always happens in real life. Unfortunately, a disconnect between reality and fantasy seems to be missing -- as do quite a number of other things.

But when a country's leadership views violence as a sole solution....

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jan 16 - 04:34 AM

Interesting article in The Guardian about open-carry laws in Texas:

Open carry of handguns in Texas: fear for some but 'everybody else is packing'

I have to say I would view someone openly carrying a gun very dimly. It's an act of aggression and designed to intimidate others, pure and simple. I guess it's designed to stop you arguing with the ape carrying the gun in case he/she looses his/hers temper and pops a cap in yo ass. Nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Tradsinger
Date: 02 Jan 16 - 04:52 AM

Does this mean that there are a lot of "well-regulated militia" in Texas?

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jan 16 - 09:20 AM

No, it means there are a lot of deluded jackasses in Texas who think it's still 1882.

And the delusion is spreading.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jan 16 - 09:31 AM

But don't be TOO hard on the Texas morons; 11 states permit open carry without requiring the citizen to apply for any permit or license and 13 States permit open carry with some restrictions.

Welcome to Tombstone, Arizona ca. 1876.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 16 - 09:46 AM

Open carry hadn't been permitted since the late 1800s in Texas. It was a law put in place for a reason that these Yahoos (think Swift) no longer remember. Probably never learned about in school before they dropped out in the ninth grade.

I plan to leave any establishment in which people come in with their personal firearms in view, and let the management know why I'm leaving, and the extent of their sales loss because of my departure. And I plan to ask in my regular places if they allow open carry, so I can find new regular places to shop, eat, etc, if necessary. It's about the only thing I can do now, since I don't think these folks are remotely qualified to "protect" me with their ill-conceived good intentions. I predict that a lot of innocent by-standers are going to be killed or maimed before the legislature reconsiders this permission to go native with handguns.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jan 16 - 12:06 PM

I quite agree!

If you want to carry a gun openly, join the military or the police (if they'll have you).

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: olddude
Date: 02 Jan 16 - 02:49 PM

Most states require it to be fully concealed. Open carry except in a state like alaska where you are not the top of the food chain and is a common practice is a terrible idea. It scares people and is stupid

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jan 16 - 03:30 PM

Most states require it to be fully concealed.

Unfortunately not these days, Dan. Do a web search - there's like 40 states out of 50 where you can pretend you're Bat Masterson or Whm Bonnie no - or few - questions asked.

Scary, and stupid, but there it is!!

Send a thank-you card to the National Rifle Assassination and all the Republican asshole congressmen when you get a spare minute.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jan 16 - 10:34 PM

And some states are getting pushed for "Constitutional Carry" -- or no concealed carry permit to carry concealed.

Unfortunately, Idaho is among them

Of course, this is the same Legislature that allowed guns on campus a year or so ago; a chemistry instructor at Idaho State University (here, in the town where I live) promptly shot himself in the foot during class.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Stu
Date: 03 Jan 16 - 04:24 AM

" It's about the only thing I can do now, since I don't think these folks are remotely qualified to "protect" me with their ill-conceived good intentions. I predict that a lot of innocent by-standers are going to be killed or maimed before the legislature reconsiders this permission to go native with handguns."

Surely that counts whether the guns are openly carried or concealed though?

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jan 16 - 09:55 AM

We so need a federal permit and take this awayffrom the states. They lost their minds. Greg is so right, only four states require concealed. We are going back to dodge city and doc holiday. God help us

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jan 16 - 10:18 AM

I predict there will be a morbid list now, of the open carry folks who shoot innocent by-standers for various reasons.

NPR story.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jan 16 - 11:02 AM

Speaking of people with guns, HERE'S some domestic terrorists people actually SHOULD be afraid of.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jan 16 - 03:19 PM

Calling the invasion of the wildlife refuge building a "peaceful" protest is somewhat disingenuous, in that that the participants are quoted as saying they will use their weapons "if needs be". The only reason it is currently "peaceful" is that no one has yet challenged them.

I have been at the Refuge several times and the question I have is as to how the 'militia' got in. If no workers were there when they arrived, it appears they are guilty of breaking and entering.

My suggestion: Have a couple of uniformed and badged - but UNARMED - law officers enter the premises and order the 'patriots' to disperse or face arrest. If they are disregarded or held hostage, the perpetrators can then be charged with interfering with the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jan 16 - 03:39 PM

Most federal sites, like post offices and national parks have policies about no guns on the premises. USFW is a federal site, so there may be more law that can be thrown at them (though the BLM is also federal - whatever happened to the Bundy's at that location?) It's a slow-moving train wreck, watching these fools act out their drama that clearly demonstrates they have no understanding of the law or the Constitution (that they claim to be defending).

"What shall we watch tonight, dear? Downton Abbey?"

"No, let's turn on the news and see what goes on at the Oregon Wildlife Refuge. It's less predictable."

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Jan 16 - 06:02 PM

Blimey O'Reilly yet again! Don't you luvverly lot over there ever tie yourselves in a load of complex untiable knots just becoz of your grotty out-of-control self-contradictory uninterpretable gun-laws. Now if you'd only started from the off with some sensible ones like ours:- like, say, you can't have the buggaz without some genuinely convincing reason + a decent level of control...

Oh, wotza use...
Think I'll go back to bed.....

luvyazall justasame mind... & your great country... It's just that

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 03:06 AM

Without going into a lengthy analysis of why they were ok when we were kids and not so much now, toy guns need to be banned. They look too much like the real thing. After all, we don't have candy cigarettes any more either. Simulating lethal activities is just a bad idea in 2016.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 05:52 AM

The US army was used to end the Whisky tax rebellion. It should be used now with orders to shoot on sight and shoot to kill against this bunch of murderous Bundyite retards. It might raise the average IQ slightly, much like the successful extermination of fundagelical murderers at Waco (pronounced "Whacko") where over 80 menaces to society were removed for the loss of only 6 pest controllers.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Stu
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 07:01 AM

"…toy guns need to be banned."

Not here they don't. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: GUEST,#
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 10:46 AM

' (pronounced "Whacko") '

No. It is pronounced WAKE-o.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 11:58 AM

They have occupied a federal compound while armed with the intent of overthrowing the government and instituting what they feel is a better one. Granted, that's in the Declaration of Independence as a reason for the American Revolution, but then, if the Rebels had lost they would have been hanged as traitors.

So, these people are traitors and are waging war against the United States. Wage war against the US and you lose your US citizenship (if you have it).

Turn off the electricity, the water, cancel their phone service, and the rest. No one (especially the press) allowed in or out of a restricted area; armored vehicles tow away their vehicles. 100 people inside an unheated building, no toilet facilities, no food, no escape, no contact with the outside world -- how long before they surrender? And if they come out shooting, well, they only have so many bullets and the cops, etc. have bullet-proof vehicles in which to stay. The Refuge is 30 miles from town so there is little danger to others.

Then the courts take over.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 12:16 PM

No. It is pronounced WAKE-o.

True enough - but the Branch Davidians are pronounced WHACK-o and David Koresh is pronounced MUR-der-er.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 03:47 PM

It is being reported that they are now bringing children to the refuge presumably to be used as human shields - a tactic no doubt learned from the Hamas terrorists in Gaza.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 03:49 PM

Or Waco

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 03:52 PM

I agree with Rap. Cut off ingress and egress, their services, and leave them the hell alone. There's no real need to DO anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 05:56 PM

They only want their 15 minutes, I commend law enforcement for their patience. They got jobs and work to do, they will tire of it and go peacefully

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 06:11 PM

I doubt whether any of them have the ability to hold down a job. But they will probably want to go home soon to fuck their mothers, sisters, or children.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 06:23 PM

Arrest the whole bunch of 'em, patience be damned. If this was a "Black Lives Matter" demonstration, they'd all of 'em been in jail yesterday.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 06:27 PM

No Greg. They'd have been dead. And they should be.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 07:35 PM

The rural community they claim to be "protecting" is not amused by these outsiders coming into the area and supposedly speaking up for them. The locals want these idiots to go away. (via NPR interviews this evening)

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 09:01 PM

On Twitter, there's a "#yallqueda". Seriously, they're looking for attention. I'm happy ignoring them.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jan 16 - 11:06 AM

Today, Obama is to make an announcement about 'some' restrictions on gun sales.. like at gun shows, etc.

Watch for the shit to hit the fan as the "slippery slope" fallacy gets a full workout by the 2nd amendment freaks.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 16 - 01:39 PM

Wait bill, one can support the 2nd admendment
And ststill support closing the gun show loophole. Sensible gun laws make sense

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 16 - 03:07 PM

Just listened, it doesn't shut them down as I hoped but even a little is better than nothing. I love the back door approach of making them dealers hence requiring full bg checks

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jan 16 - 03:11 PM

Sensible gun laws make sense

Unfortunately, Dan, not to any of the Republican presidential hopefuls or the voters that support 'em.

They'd elect Cliven Bundy (is he related to Ted, by the way?)president in a New York minute.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 16 - 04:05 PM

Rapparee original presented a very cogent explanation but woefully left out the racial component.

Endless experiments prove white and black cops shoot the black suspect and overestimate the age of a black suspect more often than white suspects.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jan 16 - 04:28 PM

Say whut???

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jan 16 - 06:02 AM

I get a kick out of all these posts by people who have never been a cop, and have no clue what it is like to be confronted by someone who has a gun.Survival is the prime consideration. I was issued a .38 S&W when I went into law enforcement, but they didn't give me any bullets! At least Barney Fife had ONE bullet! No one was afraid of me, because I didn't carry it unless I was working at night, or dealing with a known bad guy. I had their respect, not their fear or contempt.

Modern pellet guns ARE deadly weapons. I have one that can put a pellet right through a phone book, and could easily kill a person. Such lethal weapons are not new; the Lewis&Clark expedition had a rifle that was charged with compressed air.

When someone is stupid enough to remove the orange strip at the muzzle of an exact replica of a 1915 Colt automatic pistol, it is a tragedy going somewhere to happen.
Then, there is also the fact that too many towns simply don't worry about the qualifications of their cops.If you are warm and breathing, and can recite the 4th amendment, you are in.(I'll bet, most can't)

I remember in the US Treasury school of law enforcement and criminal investigation, that part where we had to walk down a street and decide in a split second to shoot or not, it was VERY stressful for fear of shooting an old woman with a cane, or getting shot by a thug with a shotgun. You can imagine what the real scene is like.
Anyway, it's fun to speculate, I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Jan 16 - 06:25 AM

We don't look on it as any sort of 'fun' from over this side, K. We just continue to gaze in constant amazement at how a great nation like yours can bear to go on'n'on'n'on making such a complete cockup of this one particular aspect [gun-carry laws] of modern life. But I know from experience that all I shall get in reply is that the situation has grown to the point beyond which anyone can control it and if we were there we'd know what was what and anyhow butt out of what is your own sacred biznis and fuckall to do with us ·······ad·∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞·in·♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠

& I STILL luvyazall justersame

bugger·it

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jan 16 - 07:26 AM

In my not so humble opinion, you don't have to be a Yank to express your opinion here.

The whole bloody thing is madness.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Stu
Date: 06 Jan 16 - 09:13 AM

"When someone is stupid enough to remove the orange strip at the muzzle of an exact replica of a 1915 Colt automatic pistol, it is a tragedy going somewhere to happen"

What's to stop someone putting an orange strip on the muzzle of an actual 1915 Colt automatic pistol and fooling folk into thinking it's an exact replica?

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 16 - 11:46 AM

"... amazement at how a great nation like yours can bear to go on'n'on'n'on making such a complete cockup of this one particular aspect [gun-carry laws] of modern life. "

And the alternative is? NOT going on? This where we are, and some of us who CANNOT "bear it" are trying to do what we can. That is what President Obama just did.

Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 16 - 11:51 AM

Talk, talk......after Obama's speech there was a huge run on gun purchases with Smith and Wesson shares surging up by 12%. Gun dealers are saying that Obama is their best salesman.