BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!

Subject: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 11:05 AM

Cardiff
Asylum seekers in Cardiff are being forced to wear brightly coloured wristbands in order to get food.
The move has been condemned by the Welsh Refugee Council (WRC), which warns the practice has echoes the yellow star Nazis made Jewish people wear at the outbreak of World War II.
More than 200 asylum seekers housed in accommodation in the Welsh capital on a Home Office contract must show the coloured wrist bands to get food, Hannah Wharf from the WRC said.
Asylum seekers claim they have been targeted for abuse as a result of wearing the bands. The WRC said it raised the matter with the Welsh Government month ago but has had no response.

Middlesborough
Asylum seekers in Middlesbrough live in funded houses with red doors
They claim they are marked out leaving them at risk of racist abuse
Locals compare the policy to yellow stars for Jews in Nazi Germany
One asylum seeker said: 'Change the colour - anything but red'
Security contractor G4S denies deliberately highlighting refugees' houses
G4S apparently knew for 4 years about the practice but didn't take action

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 11:14 AM

And coming soon to the USA! Just listen to the Republican candidates!!

But surely it should be yellow crescents sewn onto their clothing?

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 11:27 AM

"Asylum seekers in Middlesbrough live in funded houses with red doors"

I hope many Welsh people will paint their doors red as a sign of support for those seeking refuge.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Stu
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 12:56 PM

Appalling. Under the tories the nation is becoming a nastier, meaner and more depressing place to live.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 01:09 PM

Wristbands and red doors for refugees: history is not repeating itself, but it is rhyming

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 01:47 PM

They would be better off seeking refuge in Russia or Iran.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 01:59 PM

Well, at least no UK politician has yet referred to any other politician as a half-breed or head negro.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 02:35 PM

Give 'em a chance, Richard, just give 'em a chance......

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 03:13 PM

The effect of these two actions have been awful, but I do suspect that they weren't intended.

There are places where a particular colour is used by landowners. I can think of two - there's a village in West Sussex, possibly Midhurst, where most of the properties belong to the nearby big house's estate, and last time I drove through, all the properties were painted in the same shade. And along the South Circular, a bunch of properties belonging to a building contractor were all painted in the same colour. I imagine the same thinking went with the doors.

Where it started to go wrong was that the company concerned then decided to make its money by targeting the asylum seekers account with whichever government department was involved.

And then a nasty bunch of locals worked it out and made a point of attacking the properties. Of course, painting them different colours now will not help at all, because those nasty people know which houses they are.

As for the wrist bands, I dare say the original issuers thought of it as being like people using them for festivals.

It is, again, the nasty bits of work who spotted that they had a way of identifying people to bully who caused the problem.

It's quite different from the government deciding on a label, making the refugees wear it, and telling everyone else, via the medium of films and so on portraying the refugees as rats or similar, that attacking the wearers of the label is a good patriotic act.

Unless, of course, it's all been much more subtle than yellow stars, and the engaging of that obnoxious woman and similar shock columnists as people who can be identified as outliers when they do the labelling is part of a conspiracy to achieve the same effects as 1930's Germany without attracting the opprobrium. Until it's too late.

I do worry about the people I share this country with.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 05:09 PM

That sounds like a thoughtful , balanced post penny.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Kampervan
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 05:16 PM

On one level Penny is probably right. But it is the fact that the people who initiated the bands or the painting of the doors didn't realise the effect that their actions would have.

They didn't think about it. They didn't think that anything that visibly marks someone as being different might result in a backlash.

Those people should think about and the errors should be corrected without delay.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 05:28 PM

Conversely, they DID think about it, and knew exactly what they were doing.

And that's the "troubling" part.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 09:03 PM

"There are places where a particular colour is used by landowners."
Both of these examples are from heavily populated, built up urban areas and the reasons given in no way resemble those you suggest.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Penny S.
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 05:39 AM

I have always assumed that the reason for a common colour was to do with economies of scale, linked with ease of identification. The South London properties, in an urban area, include presumably rented homes. I initially gathered from the press that the door colour was of the same pattern.

I think it has been quite easy for people not to think of what vicious thugs might make of something, because most people do not mix with said thugs. It wouldn't have occurred to me.

Anything of the sort introduced now, of course, would show deliberate choice in the knowledge of what can happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 05:46 AM

". The South London properties, in an urban area, include presumably rented homes. I initially gathered from the press that the door colour was of the same pattern."
All the whose doors were painter red were owned by the same firm - government subsidised for accommodating asylum seekers
Doors
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 06:47 AM

Announced this morning (The Times)- the 'yellow star' type armbands are to be abandoned - but "The memory lingers on" as the song says.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 06:53 AM

Jim:
If you care to read the link you posted you will see that the company "Jomast" hold a housing stock, with red doors. While it is possible that all their tenants who are asyslum seekers have red doors (not surprising if that is all their stock), not all their properties with red doors house asylum seekers.

Someone has leapt to unneccesary conclusions.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 08:03 AM

Please don't give Trump any ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 08:56 AM

It worries me that this country is going through an attitudinal shift that makes bigotry acceptable, and we have a government that is doing nothing to address this.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 08:58 AM

"Announced this morning (The Times)- the 'yellow star' type armbands are to be abandoned"

Yellow star type armbands? I didn't buy a paper today but I have seen nothing about armbands of this type in any previous news report.

I am sure that Jim isn't exagerating to promote his own political viewpoint so I am sure that he can provide a link to a free news site about these armbands.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 09:01 AM

exagerating to promote his own political viewpoint

Quite amusing, coming from you, Beardie.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 09:17 AM

Times got it wrong, they are wristbands - has been covered by newsfeeds.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 10:28 AM

What a joke, they're painting the doors four different colours, but there is a problem ....they have only one colour of undercoat :0(

They'll need to slap the gloss on quick!!

You folks need to get a bloody life, the lady was right it's about economics.....the council used to paint all the doors green because they bought a bulk lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Penny S.
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 10:36 AM

Thanks, Nigel. My only doubt about the door colour tied to the company, which was not apparently solely concerned with asylum seekers, was the incident when a group in one of the houses had repainted the door white, and it was shortly after repainted red. But even that could be tied to a determination to conform with the company paint code, with no intent to identify asylum seekers. (I live in an area with very strict design rules, so expect that sort of thing.)

I think one has to have very convincing proof of intent before waving around accusations of imposing identification deliberately to make people second class citizens. I suspect the worst that could be said of the wristband fracas was that they thought that if they didn't make them tamper proof (they couldn't be removed and replaced), people would be passing them around and fiddling the system.

Meanwhile, has anything been done to identify and deal with the perpetrators of the illegal harassment? They are the real guilty people in all of this, and should be very firmly, and publicly, sat on.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 10:50 AM

Anything that is used to identify an individual as a ........ should be an area of grave concern. While the intention way only be administrative expedience, at the same same the practice can lead itself to abuse either within the system, or by those who observe the labeling outside the system - eg racists, little englanders, britain first/edl thugs etc.

It would not be acceptable, for instance, those who are on low earnings to wear a label in order to claim housing benefit or for children to be labelled in order to have free school meals if they are eligible, so there is know justification to require this of someone who is seeking asylum. I

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 11:06 AM

Perhaps something to do with language difficulties? Was there any additional information on the wristbands?

If the people were from Syria or Libya I don't suppose racists would require wristbands to identify them.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 11:13 AM

"You folks need to get a bloody life, the lady was right it's about economics"
Well done Ake -you are now to the right of the Daily Mail
The Daily Bumwipe

If it was "a question of economics" why have the doors tenants repainted, been repainted back to their original colour?
"The housing is provided on behalf of the government by Jomast, a private company owned by multimillionaire Stuart Monk and which acts as a sub-contractor for security company G4S. Jomast and G4S, which run the contract for the whole of the north-east of England, have a duty to "recognise that the safety and security of [asylum seekers] must not be jeopardised".
One man whose house was targeted told The Times: "They put us behind red doors. When people see them, everyone knows it means asylum seekers. It's like saying we're not the same as you."
Asylum seekers at one house felt so stigmatised they painted their door white. When a Jomast employee visited, he reportedly demanded to know why the colour had been changed, saying it was "against company policy". The door was then repainted red.
Suzanne Fletcher, a local resident who chairs the Liberal Democrats for Seekers of Sanctuary, said concerns over the issue had been raised repeatedly over the past four years, with information passed to G4S, the Commons Home Affairs Committee, the National Audit Office and former Redcar MP Ian Swales.
She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme on 20 January: "In September 2012, we asked G4S if they would do something about the red doors and they replied that they had no intention of doing anything about it."
Fletcher said the asylum seekers had been worried that it marked them out for attacks. "The police obviously have done everything that they can do but because asylum seekers are so vulnerable, they are frightened of jeopardising their case, things haven't always been reported," she said.
Of 168 Jomast houses identified by The Times in two of Middlesbrough's poorest districts, 155 had red front doors. Among people living at 66 of the red-door properties, it emerged that 62 were home to asylum seekers of 22 nationalities. Of the four non-asylum properties, two housed former asylum seekers and two were home to British citizens.
Shadow transport minister and Middlesbrough MP Andy McDonald said the practice was "reprehensible" and that it "reminds you of Germany in the 1930s", according to Sky News."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 11:25 AM

I still think it would be effective were people to show solidarity with their neighbours and paint their own doors red. The 'policy' would change soon enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 11:31 AM

It's not only the refugees' doors that are painted red, everyone who lives in a house owned by this company has a red door so how does that make them singled out?

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 12:11 PM

"Yellow star type armbands? I didn't buy a paper today but I have seen nothing about armbands of this type in any previous news report."
he Welsh Refugee Council (WRC) claimed the wristbands echoed the yellow star Jewish people were forced to wear during the time of Nazi Germany.

WRC policy officer Hannah Wharf said: "We have raised the matter many times with the Welsh Government. It harks back to the Nazi regime with people being forced to wear a Star of David and stand out.

Surrey Comet

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 12:29 PM

"It's not only the refugees' doors that are painted red, everyone who lives in a house owned by this company has a red door so how does that make them singled out?"

It doesn'tnecessarily, but it narrows the odds. Jomast doesn't have a patent on red doors, so why not repaint one's door red? Reminds me of a short story entitled "The Purple Children".

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 12:58 PM

Be easier if they simply painted the refugees red. That may be the next thing Trump proposes.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 01:39 PM

I really don't see the problem here
The refugees have all given examples of persecution through having been identified via there front doors and the practice has been universally condemned by the media.
It seems only the extreme right feel that we shoud "get a bloody life" which is fairly indicative of the danger these families are in.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Penny S.
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 03:25 PM

So the issue has been known since 2012 - that alters things.

Even though I was thinking that "company policy" does not have to mean a policy to identify asylum seekers, merely a policy to identify company properties for the benefit of company employees new to the area and so on, a persistence with the policy when the problems have been pointed out, and to a number of people in authority suggests something more unpleasant than jobsworth's idiocy.

I'm sorry I don't live up there, so I can't get involved with door painting.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 05:02 PM

I used to live in a council house, the doors a walls were painted every couple of years by council workers.
Tenants were not allowed to decorate the OUTSIDE of their houses.
There were no asylum seekers in our scheme.
Exterior decoration is probably covered in the terms of lease.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 05:13 PM

If anyone painted their doors or walls another colour, they were censured and had to pay for repainting.
Tenants rights are confined to the inside of property in regard to decoration......Landlords are responsible for outside maintenance, unless tenants offer to do it at their own expense, then their request will be considered.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 04:16 AM

"Tenants rights are confined to the inside of property in regard to decoration."
The first right of anybody is to defend themselves and their families from harm - tenants or not
These doors were equivalent to hanging signs up and saying "To any right wing thus who happens to be in the vicinity - I am an asylum seeker - please feel free to vandalise my home".
These are the figures of the homes with red doors again
"Among people living at 66 of the red-door properties, it emerged that 62 were home to asylum seekers of 22 nationalities. Of the four non-asylum properties, two housed former asylum seekers and two were home to British citizens."
Coincidence - sure it is!!!
Whatever the intention of the company was, that is exactly the effect it had, and it is inexcusable to hide behind bureaucracy to defend it.
The practice has been universally condemned as detrimental to the tenants - but defended by the valiant few here
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 05:00 AM

Jim it pains me to say this, but you are acting in a deranged manner over this....no one is defending anything, there was a reason why letting agencies wanted all their property to remain uniform externally.    Public taste. Some people have weird ideas on how their houses should look, and if they are not in a conservation area and they own the property that is fine....however if they do not own the property they will normally not be allowed to tamper with the outside decoration or dictate what colour it should be.

Additionally what would be the purpose of "identifying asylum seekers", to the letting agencies? this could cause trouble and damage to the property.
Are you seriously contending that this was the letting agencies intentions?.......I think you are being disingenuous, you don't believe such a thing, but find promoting the idea as beneficial to your "liberal" agenda.

The whole episode is a nonsense a symptom of a society which no longer has any cohesion or belief in itself.....and I am sorry to say that it is people like you and others on this forum....who have made it so.

"The politics of the madhouse"

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 08:06 AM

Sounds like an example of adding 2+2and arriving at 2000 ! Red doors equals persecution of asylum seekers !

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 08:41 AM

You've had the facts of the matter - the red doors have caught the attention of fascist thugs - there is every reason to remove them, no excuse whatever to leave things as they are.
"Red doors equals persecution of asylum seekers "
Old trick Pete - Perhaps you are not aware of the biblical legend of smearing the door with blood to make it stand out
Thought you were a Christian - thanks for your Christian understanding of their problem!!
Wonder how you would feel if it was your particular religious brand being targeted.
"Public taste" over-rides public safety - new one on me!!
Is there any evidence that the public were actually consulted on this matter? - no - thought not
"Are you seriously contending that this was the letting agencies intentions?"
Landlords are notorious for not giving too much thought to what they do as long as the money keeps rolling in.
They have a duty of care to their tenants and the fact that they are government-funded gives them a responsibility towards the tax-payer.
Despite the fact that this has been universally condemned, by press and politicians alike, you are still defending it.
Remind me of your political leanings again - memory's not what it was!
It transpires that the asylum seekers who were forced to wear armbands also had red plaques placed on the walls of their homes - perhaps in response to "public taste" - waddya think?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 08:49 AM

Sadly it really doesn't matter NOW what colour the doors are. Any thug with a modicum of nous will just target houses with newly painted front doors. Same problem different coloured door.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 09:27 AM

Meh, another trumped up cause by the pious to wave their flags of self-righteousness. Nothing to see here folks, move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 09:36 AM

The armbands are a different issue Jim, perhaps more sourced information may be available?

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 09:51 AM

The armbands are extremely Googleable
The plaques were exposed in this mornings press
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 10:56 AM

The "S" in G4S stands for Securitas, a hired-thug firm that got its start providing privatized goon-squad services to Franco's Spain.

They have a track record of knowing what they're doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 11:06 AM

But why would they want their property damaged?

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 11:19 AM

"But why would they want their property damaged?"
There may be to this than meets the eye - the Government has been aware of this for four years.
But surely the reason why it was done is beside the point - the practice has led to vandalising attacks on the property and it is putting the safety and possibly the lives of tenants at risk (only takes a braindrad, a can of petrol and a match and whoosh- there you go)
Why on earth are you and your interesting allies defending this horrendous practice Ake?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 11:25 AM

"But why would they want their property damaged?"

Who knows, Ake? Lots of maybes.

1) Damage to their properties is covered by the UK government
2) They have been instructed to do so by someone bigger 'n them
3) They're fascistic-control(l)ing bastards and can't help themselves
4) There are many shite town councils that work with them
5) They have good insurance

Shave and a haircut, two bits.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 12:32 PM

I don't think the Israelite doors were smeared with blood so the Passover angel could see them better , jim. It was symbolic for them , an exercise of faith for them also , and instructive for then and now.   You may be correct, but doors painted red equals official sanction of possible violence seems stretching it to me. Hardly evidence of a nazi Germany scenario where state and citizens colluded in persecuting Jews . And well done for the demonstration of the lowest form of wit !

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jan 16 - 02:14 PM

I don't believe for a minute that any commercial enterprise would deliberately encourage vandalism of their property Jim, that argument just doesn't make sense.
Additionally I'm sure everyone in the town knows where the ASs have been housed, they do not need to rely on door colour to find them.

Perhaps you are suggesting that foreign AS should be placed amongst local people one or two per street, but I'm sure that would be very difficult to organise and would involve the decamping of local families.....I don't think the AS would be very happy either as they would probably feel isolated.

As far as I can make out, the houses were empty, then bought and refurbished specially to accommodate these people, that is why there are so many AS housed together.

Do you believe in "bogey men" Jim?