BS: How to save or destroy America

Subject: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 09:05 AM

Nearly half of all the Trees you can see in America are there because of FDR Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

During the great depression when jobs were needed and the dust storms were removing farmland and farmers President Roosevelt created the Civilian Conservation Corps, solving job shortages and planting 3,000,000,000 trees which is 118 million acres, solving dust bowl ravages along with plowing advances.

It was like a two for one miracle. Saving the land of America naturally saved America along with National Wilderness Parks created by both Roosevelts, Ted and Franklin.

In the book Rightful Heritage by Douglas Brinkly this Presidential historian and NYT best seller details bring America back from the brink of ecological disaster. is other book about Teddy Roosevelt 'Wilderness Warrior' shows the saving of our land and wilderness national parks and land.

Yellowstone and many other parks followed by Parks 35 years later like; Everglades, Great Smokey Mountains, Skyline Drive, Shenandoah, Olympic, Big Bend...


Today dust storms blacken the sky of Phoenix at noon and Fracking has poisoned the groundwater from Canada to Texas.

Dust storms are returning and fires are wiping out trees at a faster rate.

We need a new FDR or we could have trump stop funding conservation of any kind. What does he know of the Wilderness or the land or farming except short term profits.

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: GUEST, ^*^
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 09:43 AM

Politicians are out making "stump speeches." So are they for or against timber? If they were musical politicians they'd at least be in favor of timbre.

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 10:01 AM

He who would pun would pick a pocket.

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 10:34 AM

More guns, more guns......

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 02:57 PM

Not only this continent, for that matter. Think of the Romans showing up on a certain island, calling it Brittania, and levelling forests in the building of roads and walls. Before the forests came down, did not the Romans report weather conditions that had nothing to do with pea-soup fogs....

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 04:24 PM

Please send Backwoodsman Cop Killer bullets in packets of 50.

He needs them ASAP

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 09:57 AM

Don't blame the Romans too much. Deforestation here was well under way in the Neolithic, the Bronze Age and the Iron Age, millennia before the Romans turned up.

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 10:36 AM

How to destroy America? Simple! Just keep electing Democrats or Republicans!

How to save America? Simple! Elect Chongo Chimp and the APP!

This has been a paid political announcement by the American Primate Party.

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 01:33 PM

"Backwoodsman Cop Killer bullets in packets of 50.

He needs them ASAP"

Irony and humour lost on you, Donuel? Obviously an American.

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 03:34 PM

As some of you may know, most of Michigan, Wisconsin, and a number of Midwest states were cleared of lumber by Paul Bunyan, or maybe it was by corporate loggers and land developers. Whoever did the deed, those states are now mostly open farmland, and woodlands are few and far between.

As I kid, I remember seeing forests that were planted by the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC). I suppose it was nice to have the trees, but they were all planted in straight rows and were all of the same variety. And there was nothing else growing on the forest floor, other than those straight rows of neatly-pruned trees.

I've seen many reforested areas here in California, but here the reforestation does not have the sameness that I found in Wisconsin and Michigan. Perhaps California's rugged terrain helped that, or perhaps foresters have changed their methods of reforestation since the time of the CCC. Still, it sure seems that the CCC did a lot of good.

I'm a big fan of the WPA (Works Progress Administration). Look toward the end of this Wikipedia article (click) to see some of the remarkable buildings they constructed.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 04:05 PM

Aldo Leopold experimented a lot with planting trees, but he planted them in straight lines evenly spaced also. The father of the American Wilderness.

By the time I was working in forestry (USFS), they were still planting in rows, because several people spaced several feet apart were all planting, and they usually planted the best lumber tree for the area, but if there was a seedling of another variety in the spot where the next one should be planted, they were instructed to move on and let that naturally seeded tree grow. So that helped somewhat with the variety. And when I was surveying areas where trees might need replanting, there were a number of species considered acceptable (to be noted in the survey, other understory types, etc., were ignored).

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 04:25 PM

we like to continue a joke

that Trees are the answer is no joke.

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 04:35 PM

Acme, what's the process for reforestation nowadays, since you seem to indicate that your experience was in ancient times.... ;-)

-Joe-

(I know how old your father was, so I think of you as a young whippersnapper...)

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: gnu
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 08:22 PM

It would take me days to explain what I have witnessed since 1966 in the devastation of The Acadian Forest. Indeed, this devastation goes on while I type. It goes on 364/24/7. It only halts once a year for 24 hours on Christmas day.

Trees? Trees? I live in New Brunswick, Canada. The largest amount of privately held land on earth is owned by the family that 'owns' my province. They own the newspapers, they own... fuckin near everything. They own the largest oil refinery in North America. That's in Saint John, NB.... the city with the highest child poverty rate in Canada.

Am I pissed? Yeah. Big time. But, the Acadian Forest is my passion and I could tell you what these fuckers are doing to it but, like I said, it would take me days... weeks.

So, If you care to bother and have the time, start with Episode #9.

Since this is a music forum... thanks again LEJ!

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 08:30 PM

...yeah, and if wasn't for Republicans or Democrats, we wouldn't have dirt, either.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 08:58 PM

Or shit, for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: LadyJean
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 09:28 PM

I am grateful to the CCC for building the restroom I used in the Smokey Mountain National Park. It stands after more than 70 years. As does the podium they built for FDR, when he came to open the park. Though I wonder how they got him up that thing.

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 11:59 PM

Well, Little Hawk, I thought of that...but being as the Dems want to take credit for trees, why not give them the credit for creating, (or evolving, however they prefer it) dirt as well??....Ya' think if there weren't investors we might not ever heard of 'blue sky'??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Stu
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 08:34 AM

America (much as it sometimes seems it would like NOT to be) is actually part of the world and it's problems are not unique to itself. Climate change is exacerbating the issues Donuel talks about, as is habitat loss and the loss of diversity in both the floras and faunas. The US has such fantastic natural resources and the most beautiful national parks, but still shoots it's wolves, has rattlesnake kills and wants to drill for oil everywhere. These problems are part of a worldwide crisis, and this is how the problem needs to be addressed, as part of a global issue. We are NOT separate from nature, and our influence is primarily destructive.

Also, something is happening in the climate we don't understand and is far more severe than we thought; in the next few years we are going to see startling changes in weather patterns and hopefully get a better idea of how we have fucked the planet up. We can still save it, but I'm betting we won't. If people knew what their grandchildren might well be faced with, they might just park their gas guzzlers and turn off the aircon until we find a way to capture and store free, renewable energy efficiently.

That's the defining issue of our times, and non-one seems to give a shit.

P.S. Yellowstone, Valley of Fire and Zion are national parks I have visited and they are quite stunning; truly incredible places. Preserve them for us all!

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 08:46 AM

but being as the Dems want to take credit for trees

That's even more ridiculous than your usual idiocy, Goofus. You just can't help yourself, can you?

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 09:37 AM

For all our sakes it is better to take a breath than to take credit.

Regarding observations by Stu

The reason the climate change events are coming faster and more intensely is a process called feedback loops.
Things that make things grow worse effects hundreds of unknown processes that in turn make more things worse.

After a dozen years of worsening feedback loops we are a 100 years more advanced than the worst scenario.


Honest to God if there is one place we need to invade is the Amazon rain forest to rid the area of slash and burners, and most importantly stop clear cutting the trees. This works faster than planting.

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 05:00 PM

Brazilian CCC or UN conservation corps numbering half a million for 3 years could save a million acres.

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 05:11 PM

RE: Nearly half of all the Trees you can see in America are there because of FDR Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

SOURCE???

I call your statement as Bull....and require you not post for four weeks....the same Mudcat judgment upon Piley the Elder and me.....unless you provide the proof.

Mud-Elves sit in judgement.

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 05:28 PM

I also think that statement and the figure (3 billion trees) are absurdly high, but the CCC did plant an awful lot of trees. Here's a recent dissertation that discusses it: Read in a browser or download the PDF on Technological Forests.

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 01:16 AM

It wasn't either Paul Bunyan or the lumber companies that deforested Michigan and Wisconsin, Joe. Most of the work was done by forest fires--particularly a series of fires that swept through those states on October 8, 1871, the same day as the Chicago fire. The Peshtigo Fire is the most well known-centered in Peshtigo, Wisconsin, it leveled more than 1.5 million acres, and may have killed as many as 2,500, ten times the number that were killed in Chicago.

Michigan's thumb area, which we Michigander know as farmland and fields, was a vast forest, also burned as did the Cities of Manistee and Port Huron. All told, some 4 million acres were burned, in the 1871 fires and it is impossible to determine the number of deaths.

For some reason, this day of fires, which were the worst in US history, isn't something that most people know about. For more info:The Great Fires of 1871 and 1881

Subject: RE: BS: How to save or destroy America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 01:21 AM

From: GUEST
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 05:11 PM

"RE: Nearly half of all the Trees you can see in America are there because of FDR Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

SOURCE???

I call your statement as Bull....and require you not post for four weeks....the same Mudcat judgment upon Piley the Elder and me.....unless you provide the proof.

Mud-Elves sit in judgement." ....

Greg: "but being as the Dems want to take credit for trees

That's even more ridiculous than your usual idiocy, Goofus. You just can't help yourself, can you?"

Think about it, Greggie!

'Guest' seems to think the original statement was a bit far off as well!

Really???..'Half the trees'?????.......Now about that dirt....

GfS