BS: Norway Leads The Way

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Mar 16 - 10:15 AM

Apparently not a Monty Python fan.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Mar 16 - 04:59 AM

Greg, this is only a tiny forum, the important thing is getting to express your views on issues, not have a shouting match.
Keith treats you respectfully why don't you do the same, when you are being serious we all listen.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 16 - 04:47 AM

Empty threat Greg.
Sticks and stones.

Name calling requires no knowledge or intelligence and in debate indicates surrender to the other side, so do it some more Greg.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Mar 16 - 06:29 PM

Yo, Professor! Yo mama so fat....!

Now, go away before I taunt you a second time.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 16 - 02:40 PM

Just more abuse then Greg.
Why can you never be nice?

Why could you not reply to Ake with something like,
"I think you might be wrong about that. It contradicts my observations in old cemeteries?"

We could then have discussed the issue like grown ups.
Anyone can name call. No actual knowledge is needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Mar 16 - 02:05 PM

Yo, Professor! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Mar 16 - 12:36 PM

Bugger.. if human lifespan is increasing to such an alarming extent,
that means many of us mudcat nutters will be stuck with each other for at least another decade or so.. 😜

Max permitting.....

Also bear in mind, dementia is setting in earlier in late middle age for many more of us...

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 16 - 12:30 PM

Greg,
Professor, more opinions and blogs. You haven't come up with anything that relies on or references facts.

They were not blogs and they were factual.
The pieces were written by Tim Lambert and April Holloway, both qualified professionals.

Look up anything on historical life span and you will find the same thing.
You will find nothing whatsoever to justify your attack on Ake, who was quite correct in what he said.

It is you who "have no idea what you're talking about."
By your aggressive refutation of the actual truth you have made yourself ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Mar 16 - 10:03 AM

Go away, Professor. You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not going to get into an argument with a six year old.

And yeah, Dave, I know - "I lose". And my mother wears combat boots.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 16 - 04:26 AM

Not opinions Greg.
It is fact as shown by the statistics given.
It is just your opinion that the stats. are wrong.

You are entitled to your opinion but you should not be so abusive in challenging the opinions of others who the stats. endorse.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 08:10 PM

So your name Really IS "Akhenaten" then? Or do you prefer Amenhotep IV?

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 07:21 PM

Greg why don't you just refer to members by their usernames?

I rather like "Pharaoh" but others probably get pissed off with this stuff. I know you're not a bad fellow, a bit spikey at times, but in the spirit of Max's edict hows about a truce and concentration on the issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 05:50 PM

Professor, more opinions and blogs. You haven't come up with anything that relies on or references facts.

Take another walk in that cemetery and note down the ages of persons that died between, say, 1820 and 1870.

Then come back and report to the class.

-----------------------------

Dave, that Paraguay item is pretty good. Has more to do with the discussion than either Pharoah or The Professor.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 02:53 PM

Dueling is legal in Paraguay as long as both parties are registered blood donors.



http://uselessfacts.net

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 02:46 PM

Pre-industrial Britain.
"35! Average life expectancy at birth was around 35 but a great many of the people born died in childhood. We don't know exactly what percentage died but if we say about 25% of people died before they were 5 years old we are probably not wide of the mark. Perhaps as many as 40% died before they reached adulthood. However if you could survive childhood and your teenage years you had a good chance of living to your 50s or your early 60s and even in the Middle Ages in Western Europe there were some people who lived to 70 or 80."

"Life expectancy rose further in Britain in the late 19th century. By 1900 in Britain it was about 47 for a man and about 50 for a woman. (That does not mean of course that people dropped dead in their late forties. The figures are skewed because death in childhood was still common in the early 20th century. That affected the average figure.)"
http://www.localhistories.org/life.html

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 02:45 PM

Apparently, Greg, you lose ;-) Sorry but everyone will now forever see that you also have dirty underwear and pick your nose. Mind you, everyone loses in these arguments. Best just call it a day I suppose...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 02:36 PM

Greg, in reply to "if one survived infancy you stood a very good chance of attaining your three score and ten" you replied, "Not hardly. You'd best re-check your statistics."

The stats. support Ake's contention.
You were wrong Greg.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 01:50 PM

Professor:

Your statement was:

"if one survived infancy you stood a very good chance of attaining your three score and ten."

The article says (emphasis mine):

The early years from infancy through to about 15 was perilous, due to risks posed by disease, injuries, and accidents. But those who survived this hazardous period of life could well make it into old age.

COULD well. But didn't necessarily.

And also:

scientists have compared the life span of adults in contemporary hunter-gatherer tribes

We're not talking about "contemporary hunter-gatherer tribes", but of pre-industrial populations in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Guess again.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 01:37 PM

Greg, I was wrong to quote such a person, but the stats. referred to are respectable and genuine.

See this source.
"To help gain an answer to this question, scientists have compared the life span of adults in contemporary hunter-gat once infant mortality rates were removed, life span was calculated to between 70 and 80 years, the same rate as that found in contemporary industrialised societies. - See more at: http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-evolution-human-origins/life-expectancy-myth-and-why-many-ancient-humans-lived-long-077889#sthash.0Gb3S9SC.dpuf

http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-evolution-human-origins/life-expectancy-myth-and-why-many-ancient-humans-lived-long-077889

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 12:41 PM

Yippee ki-yay, mother assisted living providers !!!!!! 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 12:38 PM

Yeh, three house marks and a gold star.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 12:34 PM

hooray !!! do i get extra points for being one of the last guest posters...!!!??? 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: olddude
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 12:13 PM

Great thing about freedom, you can believe or not believe anything You want, unlike many places on earth

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 12:04 PM

"I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details."-----Albert Einstein

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." -----Albert Einstein

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."-----Albert Einstein

"The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge."-----Albert Einstein

"Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble."-----Albert Einstein

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."-----Albert Einstein

"When the solution is simple, God is answering."-----Albert Einstein

"The man who regards his own life and that of his fellow creatures as meaningless is not merely unfortunate but almost disqualified for life."-----Albert Einstein

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."-----Albert Einstein


....and now a word from YOUR 'opinions'..can I here an 'Amen?"

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 11:10 AM

Professor, your cut-n-pastes are OPINIONS - for which he cites no facts whatsoever - by Benjamin Radford, "paranormal investigator" of psychics, ghosts, exorcisms, miracles, Bigfoot, stigmata, lake monsters, UFO sightings, reincarnation, crop circles, and other topics.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 10:40 AM

Wrong Greg.

"the increase in life expectancy between 1907 and 2007 was largely due to a decreasing infant mortality rate, which was 9.99 percent in 1907; 2.63 percent in 1957; and 0.68 percent in 2007.

But the inclusion of infant mortality rates in calculating life expectancy creates the mistaken impression that earlier generations died at a young age; Americans were not dying en masse at the age of 46 in 1907"

http://www.livescience.com/10569-human-lifespans-constant-2-000-years.html

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 09:54 AM

if one survived infancy you stood a very good chance of attaining your three score and ten.

Not hardly. You'd best re-check your statistics.

I suppose I should have said....how science has been misused.

Damn good thing religion has never been misused, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 06:33 AM

Infant mortality certainly, and war and disease. They all combined to reduce life expectancy. But working 70 hours a week isn't fun I've done it. Cold, unsanitary housing, rudimentary medical care, low income, having to kowtow to my "betters", the massive influence of the church in my life etc etc.

Yep just the sort of thing I want to return to.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 06:24 AM

Its all relative R.....go to the average or even above average old folks home and ask what they think of longevity.

Infant mortality was the problem a couple of hundred years ago, if one survived infancy you stood a very good chance of attaining your three score and ten.
In our local churchyard it amazes me how many people in the 17 and 1800's lived to over ninety years......but by then the industrial revolution was just beginning to bite!

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 05:40 AM

When you consider an average life span was about 40 years in the early 1800's and people worked an average 70 hours per week I would suggest that science has done us all a lot of favours.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 05:33 AM

Yes I suppose so Raggytash, to an extent.
Joe, I suppose I should have said....how science has been misused.

Back to Luddism, science and technology in the main have not worked in the interests of humanity or the planet. Primitive societies existed for many thousands of years, this technological Pandora's Box has been in fully opened for perhaps three hundred.....anybody taking bets that we as a species last another three hundred?

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 04:38 AM

"I give little credence to science, it has produced a little good and very much bad"

Hmmmmm ............... a Latter Day Luddite.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 04:31 AM

Musket, you still try to mock my supposed ignorance only to reveal your own total ignorance of quantum effects.

Rag, Musket said "If you discover the state of one, the other was ever thus, not caused to be"
That is wrong. He has failed to grasp that the quantum world is different.

If you had an individually wrapped pair of gloves, unwrapping one would reveal if it was left or right. You would also know that the other was the opposite and was ever thus.

A pair of quantum entangled gloves is different.
Each are both left and right until observed. That was beyond Musket's understanding.

When you unwrap one, its state collapses, randomly, to either left or right. At the same instant, the state of the other glove collapses to be opposite, even if at the other end of the universe!

It was not ever in that state until its partner was observed CAUSING its state to collapse. Musket was wrong. I was right.

Somehow information passes between them instantly over any distance, which of course is impossible, but it happens anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 04:18 AM

Ake says: I give little credence to science, it has produced a little good and very much bad.

C'mon, Ake, you don't really mean that. For the most part, scientists do a good and very honest job of investigating the phenomenon/phenomena of the universe. There are some "scientists" who take on an anti-philosophical, anti-theological agenda, but I don't think that's most of them. Most are interested in finding scientific answers to scientific questions. Who can find fault with that?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 08:04 PM

"Steve, my wife could give evidence"

Well that's interesting. I wonder whether it would stack up when scientific principles were applied to it. I hope she gets well soon, by the way.

"I don't care what you think, and I'm sure the Christians here don't care what you think either....we KNOW what we believe and your opinions are of no consequence."

Well I'm really glad you said this. In a very pithy way you've defined, unconsciously of course, what's wrong with religious faith. In a sentence, it's just fingers in ears. Thanks for that.

"My experiences mean nothing to you."

Cor, don't feel so threatened! Why would I waste all this time on this telepathy malarkey if your alleged experiences mean nothing to me? Au contraire, I'm intrigued by what you claim and all I ask for is your evidence.

"It is a personal matter, accept it and move on."

Well I have a number of personal matters that I would feel very offended about were you to address them. But you can't, because I haven't broadcast them here, unlike you with your telepathy claim. My advice to you is to keep your personal matters personal. Once they're out here, it's open season, old chap. Into the bearpit with your notions. You of all people should have realised that by now.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Musket
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 07:59 PM

"I give little credence to science."

Or anything much else for that matter.

As you said, one day you will be obsolete. Humanity has little use for your attitudes anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 07:41 PM

Get a grip, Pharoah.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 07:35 PM

Steve, my wife could give evidence, but is much too sick at the moment to be bothered satisfying your curiosity.
I don't care what you think, and I'm sure the Christians here don't care what you think either....we KNOW what we believe and your opinions are of no consequence.
My experiences mean nothing to you, Joe, Pete or Hilo's faith makes no impression on you.
It is a personal matter, accept it and move on.

I give little credence to science, it has produced a little good and very much bad.
It has enabled us to survive in an unhealthy environment, we are becoming weaker with each new generation, more dependent on science,
soon humanity will be obsolete.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Musket
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 07:16 PM

Not quite Raggy. Keith was trying to say that entanglement had cause and effect. Utter nonsense and trying to put quantum mechanics into Newtonian ideals. There is no cause and effect, entanglement is pure indeterminate till observed and observing causes result. None of us were born when Heisenberg determined as such. Quantum mechanics has been based on such things ever since.

It's the sort of concept in the jacket cover of Quantum Mechanics for Idiots. If you can't grasp it, don't bother reading further till you can. If state and observation is too difficult, not much point in reading the Topsy and Tim guide to wave / particle duality...,

I know I moan about what schools churn out these days but is there any bloody wonder?

Although just like Michael in the other thread, trying to make me look a twat seems so important to them, perhaps we should just suspend reality and let them get on with it?

It's almost as funny as a post further up saying their telepathy has been verified. Random words by weird people.



No pete. Nobody is fascinated by stamp collecting but if philatelists tried to push their hobby into law in the same way God botherers do, I would have been doing an impersonation of a penny black with a huge arse instead of, as I did less than an hour ago, my take of Jesus on a rubber cross.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 06:56 PM

Aint it weird that the "non stamp collectors" seem to be obsessed with the devotions of the "stamp collectors".......

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 06:01 PM

A really stupid example, for which I have no explanation, and no independent confirmation. And it didn't involve serious emotional content, either.

I'm sure you remember the first TV broadcast by Uri Geller, with the chap from Kings College London well taken in by his schtick. And I'm sure you are aware that the trick with him seeming to "see" the drawing apparently sealed in an envelope was spurious, as he had had an opportunity to see the drawing unobserved.

What I recall from that broadcast was the way he manipulated the audience, at least, me, to want him to succeed. And he drew people in to try an emulate his ability to "see" that drawing.

It was a child's type drawing of a sailing ship, with two triangular sails. I had drawn two triangles. Separated. and more like a pair of gables on a roof, but two triangles.

I've not been able to see the programme again to see if there were any visual clues which led me to get something that Geller got by cheating. Nor do I recall much said about other people picking up on that image. Quite a bit about watches starting and stopping. I was not, to be honest, happy about that occurrence. I don't like being manipulated.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 04:56 PM

I love the idea that you can 'look up' anything on Google and become an instant expert on anything ranging from quantum physics to scrotal warts. There is a phrase for the kind of person that does. Just look it up :-)

Out of interest I have had my fair share of unexplainable occurrences. Including falling over a non existent black Labrador on our landing, Stone cold sober in the middle of the day. Literally. Yes, it was a literal fall. Not virtual or figurative ;-) I never put any of these experiences down to gods, faeries or bogie men. One day we will understand more :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 04:10 PM

Please excuse me I've been in the pub all afternoon.

Keith says "The state of both is undetermined until one of them is observed. Observing one causes the state of both to be determined, instantly, however far apart they are"

Musket said "If you discover the state of one, the other was ever thus, not caused to be"

Is this not saying the same thing, or is my alcohol addled brain mistaken.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 03:50 PM

The effect I described has been experimentally proven to occur.
There is no theory to explain how the information passes between the particles.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 03:45 PM

do any quantum scientists actually believe that their most current prevailing theories are definitely set indisputably in stone...

i wouldn't risk taking an absolutist stance if I was one of 'em...

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 03:39 PM

Musket,
If you discover the state of one, the other was ever thus, not caused to be.

Completely wrong!
You have exposed your own ignorance while mocking my actual knowledge.
I hope there are a decent few who will understand and enjoy your silly pratfall.

The state of both is undetermined until one of them is observed.
Observing one causes the state of both to be determined, instantly, however far apart they are.
As I said.
Look it up Musket.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: GUEST,Tuesmith
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 03:21 PM

akenaton said:

"To people of faith I'm sure God is real, though again, science will never verify it......I am also sure they have seen God, just as I have experienced telepathy...and none of it is any of your business.!

Nonsense!

If anyone gives credibility to a Christian/Jewish/Muslim God, then they are endorsing the holy books.

They are endorsing primitive superstition over logic and science.

Such people are dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 02:59 PM

... ????????.. I don't know how that happened either....????

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 02:58 PM

Best not get even started on confronting those women who believe they can communicate telepathically with their cats...

Met more than my share in the 80s in certain post codes in Bristol.

The things a young bloke will put up with in hope of a shag.... 😼 💭

Subject: RE: BS: Norway Leads The Way
From: GUEST,mudcat
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 02:56 PM

Best not get even started on confronting those women who believe they can communicate telepathically with their cats...

Met more than my share in the 80s in certain post codes in Bristol.

The things a young bloke will put up with in hope of a shag.... 😼 💭