BS: Hail Tlaloc

Subject: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Apr 16 - 11:57 AM

The role of Texas (and the city of Houston in particular) in the global environment-destroying energy pig-out:

https://www.eia.gov/state/analysis.cfm?sid=TX

Catastrophic flooding couldn't have happened to a more appropriate place.

(Somewhere I read that the people of Houston use more energy for air conditioning alone than the energy budgets of more than half the world's nation-states).

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 21 Apr 16 - 12:25 PM

Houston is a coastal city with a hot humid climate. Those air conditioners are used as much to remove humidity as to lower the temperature of a structure.

If you wanted to wish bad things on the oil and gas industry, better to look for flooding in the Midland/Odessa and general Permian Basin area. (Not likely, it's high desert). Or the entire state when it comes to fracking and natural gas wells.

It can also be said that the wind and solar industries have taken hold, and while it is a fraction of electricity production (behind gas, coal, nuclear), it is a robust industry.

In 1999, the Public Utility Commission of Texas first adopted rules for the state's renewable energy mandate. In 2005, the state legislature amended the mandate to require that 5,880 megawatts, or about 5% of the state's electricity capacity, come from renewable sources by 2015. Lawmakers also set a goal of 10,000 megawatts of renewable capacity by 2025, including 500 megawatts from resources other than wind. Texas surpassed the 2015 goal in 2005 and the 2025 goal in 2009, almost entirely with wind power. Renewable energy sources contributed just under one-tenth of the state's net electricity generation in 2014, but that amounted to about 15% of the U.S. total electricity generated from all nonhydroelectric renewable resources. Texas was second only to California in nonhydroelectric renewable generation.

Many Texans choose to pay a bit more for electricity in order to support the wind power industry.

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Apr 16 - 02:09 PM

Damn good thing that Global Warming is a myth, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 16 - 06:46 PM

Energy consumption is loosely correlated with gross national product and climate, but there is a large difference even between the most highly developed countries, such as Japan and Germany with an energy consumption rate of 6 kW per person and the United States with an energy consumption rate of 11.4 kW per person. In developing countries, particularly those that are sub-tropical or tropical such as India, the per person energy use rate is closer to 0.7 kW. Bangladesh has the lowest consumption rate with 0.2 kW per person.

The US consumes 25% of the world's energy with a share of global GDP at 22% and a share of the world population at 4.59%.The most significant growth of energy consumption is currently taking place in China, which has been growing at 5.5% per year over the last 25 years. Its population of 1.3 billion people (19.6% of the world population) is consuming energy at a rate of 1.6 kW per person. [wiki]

Plenty of towns and cities in the countries mentioned here have hot and humid climates. But the US consumes 11.4kW per capita, while China, oft quoted as the major threat in global warming, consumes seven times less per capita. The US consumes twice as much almost per capita as even the biggest industrial nation in Europe, Germany. The US consumes 25% of the world's energy and has less than 5% of the population. Pretending that you're doing lots of environmentally-friendly things simply doesn't wash. Over four-fifths of your energy consumption comes from fossil fuels. The world has a big problem, and the US is a disproportionately large part of that problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Apr 16 - 07:08 PM

the US consumes 11.4kW per capita, while China, oft quoted as the major threat in global warming, consumes seven times less per capita

And when you do the audit more carefully, most of China's energy usage is industrial - making products for Americans.

Americans invented the catchphrase "if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen". Their grotesque abuse of air conditioning shows they don't want to live by it.

If the Houston climate is too much for you, fuck off somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 16 - 07:30 PM

I was aware of that aspect, Jack, but am knackered after a quiz night and considered that what I quoted was already bad enough. And let's not even begin to think about what might happen to any US politician who suggests that a dollar should be put on to their ultra-cheap petrol prices. Mustn't threaten those hordes of six-pot gas-guzzlers, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 Apr 16 - 05:46 AM

What Steve said:

"Energy consumption is loosely correlated with gross national product and climate, but there is a large difference even between the most highly developed countries, such as Japan and Germany with an energy consumption rate of 6 kW per person and the United States with an energy consumption rate of 11.4 kW per person. In developing countries, particularly those that are sub-tropical or tropical such as India, the per person energy use rate is closer to 0.7 kW. Bangladesh has the lowest consumption rate with 0.2 kW per person.

The US consumes 25% of the world's energy with a share of global GDP at 22% and a share of the world population at 4.59%.The most significant growth of energy consumption is currently taking place in China, which has been growing at 5.5% per year over the last 25 years. Its population of 1.3 billion people (19.6% of the world population) is consuming energy at a rate of 1.6 kW per person. [wiki]

Plenty of towns and cities in the countries mentioned here have hot and humid climates. But the US consumes 11.4kW per capita, while China, oft quoted as the major threat in global warming, consumes seven times less per capita. The US consumes twice as much almost per capita as even the biggest industrial nation in Europe, Germany. The US consumes 25% of the world's energy and has less than 5% of the population. Pretending that you're doing lots of environmentally-friendly things simply doesn't wash. Over four-fifths of your energy consumption comes from fossil fuels. The world has a big problem, and the US is a disproportionately large part of that problem. "

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Apr 16 - 06:12 AM

US petrol per litre is 62 cents. In the UK it's $1.46 (and pity the Italians). Rising in both countries at the moment, of course - it's gone up in the US by ten cents in a couple of months. Jesus, you yanks must be hopping bloody mad. Let's face it: the USA is absolutely not serious about addressing global warming. Too much power in the undemocratic wrong hands, as with the pro-Israel lobby. Land of the Free, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Apr 16 - 09:03 AM

George Monbiot explained it to me. Well, not personally. It's all to do with neoliberalism and now I have discovered the phrase I will use it at every opportunity! Sorry to be trite but when I start to think about these things it is my only pressure valve...

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Apr 16 - 11:52 AM

Gee, I sure hope there are more devastating floods in the UK! I hope more people and kids drown and cars and homes are lost! Those people DESERVE it!

Good God! Wishing a catastrophe on people! Are you so Old Testament as that? To wish death and loss people? For shame!

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Apr 16 - 12:30 PM

Where's that? It isn't anywhere in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Apr 16 - 02:23 PM

most of China's energy usage is industrial - making products for Americans.

And doing the jobs - for slave wages - that Americans (i.e. USAsians)used to do in order to feed their families, before the Reaganauts and their plutocratic fellow travellers shipped allmost all U.S. manufacturing jobs overseas.

But by God, keep voting Republican, you working class / middle class morons....... Trump'll 'make AmeriKKKa Great Again.

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Apr 16 - 08:27 AM

Catastrophic flooding couldn't have happened to a more appropriate place.

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Apr 16 - 08:59 AM

The very title of this thread backs the wish for disaster! Children were taken to Tlaloc (Aztec god of rain, lightning and thunder) and their hearts ripped out in sacrifice. Their bodies were flayed and their skins worn by the priests until the next group -- about twenty days later -- were brought in for sacrifice.

Oh, no, nothing in the thread says that disaster is desired!

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Apr 16 - 10:19 AM

Oh, I see! Well Jack can speak for himself, but if you think he's wishing disaster on people I think you're severely misreading his sentiments.

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Apr 16 - 01:10 PM

I don't understand either, rap. You have, seemingly, quoted something - IE Gee, I sure hope there are more devastating floods in the UK! I hope more people and kids drown and cars and homes are lost! Those people DESERVE it!

It is common practice to put quotes in italics, as you have done. Where is the quote from is what we need to know. I think :-S

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Apr 16 - 01:23 PM

As far as I can see, it isn't a quote - it's a sarcastic interpretation of what he imagined Jack to have meant. To my mind, it's way off the mark.

Subject: RE: BS: Hail Tlaloc
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Apr 16 - 01:41 PM

Ah, OK. It was the italics that threw me. I wish people would treat conventions, well, conventionally...

Thanks Steve.