BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true

Subject: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 May 16 - 02:39 AM

Can you name the greatest mass murderer of the 20th century? No, it wasn't Hitler or Stalin. It was Mao Zedong.

According to the authoritative "Black Book of Communism," an estimated 65 million Chinese died as a result of Mao's repeated, merciless attempts to create a new "socialist" China. Anyone who got in his way was done away with -- by execution, imprisonment or forced famine.

For Mao, the No. 1 enemy was the intellectual. The so-called Great Helmsman reveled in his blood-letting, boasting, "What's so unusual about Emperor Shih Huang of the China Dynasty? He had buried alive 460 scholars only, but we have buried alive 46,000 scholars." Mao was referring to a major "accomplishment" of the Great Cultural Revolution, which from 1966-1976 transformed China into a great House of Fear.

The most inhumane example of Mao's contempt for human life came when he ordered the collectivization of China's agriculture under the ironic slogan, the "Great Leap Forward." A deadly combination of lies about grain production, disastrous farming methods (profitable tea plantations, for example, were turned into rice fields), and misdistribution of food produced the worse famine in human history.

Deaths from hunger reached more than 50 percent in some Chinese villages. The total number of dead from 1959 to 1961 was between 30 million and 40 million -- the population of California.

Rounding up enemies

Only five years later, when he sensed that revolutionary fervor in China was waning, Mao proclaimed the Cultural Revolution. Gangs of Red Guards -- young men and women between 14 and 21 -- roamed the cities targeting revisionists and other enemies of the state, especially teachers.

Professors were dressed in grotesque clothes and dunce caps, their faces smeared with ink. They were then forced to get down on all fours and bark like dogs. Some were beaten to death, some even eaten -- all for the promulgation of Maoism. A reluctant Mao finally called in the Red Army to put down the marauding Red Guards when they began attacking Communist Party members, but not before 1 million Chinese died.

All the while, Mao kept expanding the laogai, a system of 1,000 forced labor camps throughout China. Harry Wu, who spent 19 years in labor camps, has estimated that from the 1950s through the 1980s, 50 million Chinese passed through the Chinese version of the Soviet gulag. Twenty million died as a result of the primitive living conditions and 14-hour work days.

Such calculated cruelty exemplified his Al Capone philosophy: "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."

And yet Mao Zedong remains the most honored figure in the Chinese Communist Party. At one end of historic Tiananmen Square is Mao's mausoleum, visited daily by large, respectful crowds. At the other end of the square is a giant portrait of Mao above the entrance to the Forbidden City, the favorite site of visitors, Chinese and foreign.

Repression continues

In the spirit of Mao, China's present rulers continue to oppress intellectuals and other dissidents such as human-rights activist Liu Xiaobo. He was sentenced last month to 11 years in prison for "inciting subversion of state power." His offense: signing Charter 08, which calls on the government to respect basic civil and human rights within a democratic framework. .

China presents itself as a vast market for U.S. companies and investors. But some U.S. companies are taking a second look at doing business in a country which considers Mao Zedong its patron saint. Google has said it is reconsidering its operations in China after discovering a sophisticated cyber attack on its e-mail which the government must have initiated or approved.

Google has revealed what many in the Internet world have known for some time -- China routinely hacks into U.S. and Western Web sites for national security and other valuable information. Mao would have enthusiastically applauded this intellectual rape.

I wonder: would President Obama be so ready to kowtow to China if in the middle of Beijing there was a mausoleum of Hitler and, hanging from the gate to the Forbidden City, a giant swastika?

Lee Edwards is distinguished fellow in conservative thought at The Heritage Foundation in Washington, D.C., and chairman of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. Distributed by McClatchy-Tribune Information Services.

Get Heritage in your i

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 May 16 - 03:20 AM

Gee, Dick where did you copy this from? Have any thoughts of your own on the matter? I shouldn't have to look it up - this is something you should do every time you copy-paste something, Mudcatters deserve to know where you got your information from, if it is not your own.

This article is from the Heritage Foundation, http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2010/02/the-legacy-of-mao-zedong-is-mass-murder. The Heritage Foundation is an American conservative think tank based in Washington, D.C.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 May 16 - 04:54 AM

I would be confident about the actions of the red guards, 0f course lee edwards is an american conservative.
MAO was also responsible for the invasion and occupation of neighbouring Tibet., Which is still under chines occupation
I googled mao mass murder, and that info came up.
i suspect that a lot of it is true because of some of Maos other behaviour, including this from Time magazine
Cookie Consent

The Chairman's Historic Swim
By RICHARD H. SOLOMON         Monday, Sept. 27, 1999

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the early 1960s, china was in the throes of economic catastrophe and widespread famine--both resulting from the radical political and economic experiments of Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward. As opposition to Mao's leadership grew, the Chairman left Beijing in late 1965 for Hangzhou, where he would map out his last assault on the Communist Party's revisionist leadership--the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution. After months of cloistered plotting, Mao suddenly resurfaced in Wuhan in the summer of 1966 to stage one of his greatest acts of political theater. On July 16 he took a vigorous and well-reported swim in the Yangtze River by the Wuhan bridge. It was a signal that Mao was in robust health--and that he was launching a counterattack against his critics in the party leadership.Although Mao was in his early 70s, party propagandists claimed that the Chairman had swum nearly 15 km in 65 min. that day--a world-record pace, if true. The contention elicited guffaws from foreign observers, who took the claim as a sign that China was descending into political madness. Yet for the old man of the revolution, the swim was a call to China's younger generation to dive into a political struggle against counterrevolutionary party bureaucrats. If the aging Chairman could conquer the mighty Yangtze, surely the nation's youth could brave the winds and waves of a political storm and overthrow Mao's opponents. For Mao, the event appeared to be a symbolic reenactment of his own teenage rebellion against a brutal father, whom he had challenged by pursuing physical activities and learning to swim--in contravention of Confucian notions of physical reserve. Yet Mao's aquatic incitement of China's youth failed to produce a new generation of revolutionaries. Violent conflicts between contending Red Guard units in Wuhan and elsewhere served only to discredit the student zealots, and the military finally had to intervene. General Chen Zaidao, commander of the Wuhan military region (and a man who nearly drowned trying to keep up with Mao during an earlier Yangtze swim), rallied party and army conservatives in opposition to the Chairman's political challenge. Months of conflict between rival Maoist groups had crippled Wuhan's industries, and party conservatives, fearing that the leftists in Beijing would consolidate their power, supported Chen as his troops moved against the Red Guard factions. With one of China's major urban centers paralyzed by political turmoil and violence, Premier Zhou Enlai and other Mao lieutenants intervened to negotiate an end to the fighting. After two of the Chairman's emissaries were kidnapped, central military authorities under Lin Biao launched an invasion of the city. Lin's troops arrived via paratroop drop and in naval maneuvers up the Yangtze. Chen Zaidao was arrested, and Wuhan returned to leftist control. The political chaos that Mao had unleashed with his improbable swim would finally end only with the Chairman's death in 1976 and the purge of his wife Jiang Qing and other party radicals. Richard H. Solomon, China specialist in the White House during the Nixon and Ford administrations, is president of the U.S. Institute of Peace and the author of A Revolution Is Not a Dinner Party

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 May 16 - 06:16 AM

I lectured on English Folksong under the auspices of the British Council in Beijing & Guangzhou Universities, based at the Beijing Languages & Cultures University [then the Beijing Language Institute] and Guilin Normal University, for 2 months in 1989; leaving just as the Tienenman Square demonstration was starting. As my taxi to the airport drove off-campus, I could here our Language Institute students starting their demonstration up-campus, prior to their marching in a body to Teinman Sq to join the main demo already forming there under the diretion of oppositionist Hu Yaoban. My wife, who was a fulltime lecturer at the time at the Institute [see her entry on Wikipedia, titled "Valerie Grosvenor Myer"] regularly visited her students in the Square while their occupation of it continued. She learned of the demonstration's destruction by the Chinese People's Army by my phoning her from home here near Cambridge, having heard it on the 10 o'clock BBC Radio 4 News, the time difference meaning that it was 8.00 the following morning in Beijing.

Do not doubt that Dick's account is the truth, Joe. My wife was there, caught up in it. She was lucky to escape on a US army transport taking US citizens to the airport, her next-room colleagues being Americans who took her under their wing. I did not know of her whereabouts for several days, which you will appreciate was a worrying time for me. Her account of what happened when she returned concurs with what Dick posted above. Believe me, his account has it right — & this is something I do know about.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 May 16 - 07:55 AM

From scattered sources I've read over the years I believe it is truthful and in fact may err on the conservative side.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Lighter
Date: 15 May 16 - 08:07 AM

Of course it's true. Even the Guinness Book knows about it, though there's some disagreement about the precise figures.

The following is also true. Many years ago I was discussing the matter with a (shall we say, "left-wing"?) college classmate.   

She was unperturbed, pointing out that "China has such a huge population that it wasn't that big a percentage."

She added that "revolutions are fragile" and "have to assert their authority until they can stabilize."

She seemed to be quite a normal person until that moment.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 May 16 - 08:39 AM

My wife and I were in China [see 3 posts back] by invitation of Professor Wu Ninkun, whom we met when he was visiting fellow in Cambridge, having at last been been rehabilitated after 20+ years of persecution and imprisonment after being lured back from a post in Chicago to help stinking 2-faced Mao's 'hundred flowers grow'. Look up Wu Ninkun's Wikipedia entry also, to learn at least part of what really happened.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 May 16 - 08:49 AM

Wikipedia actually spells it Wu Ningkun.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Megan L
Date: 15 May 16 - 10:44 AM

Joe was not disputing the truth of the matter merely asking if the op had some opinion on the matter rather than just cutting and posting something with no reference to why it was posted at this particular time or an opinion on the matter.

Just out of curiosity I thought Mao was dead a while before the Tiernamin Sq protest.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: meself
Date: 15 May 16 - 10:49 AM

So ... who are we arguing with, here?

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 May 16 - 01:19 PM

....with no reference to why it was posted at this particular time....

Presumably, the significance at this particular time is that the Cultural Revolution started 50 years ago this month. It's a pity that the opening post didn't make this clear.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 May 16 - 01:20 PM

Megan, I understood Joes comments. To which i have already replied,
I have strong opinions on Mao, I also take into consideration that the article was written by an American Conservative, however certain things are indisputable,
1 The chinese imperialist occupation of Tibet.
2.The terrible behaviour of the red guards who were obeying Maos orders.
3, The fact that what Mao practised was not communism even though he called it communism.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 May 16 - 01:37 PM

So now it appears i have to explain why I have posted, do I?
That is rather reminiscent of the Spanish inquisition,or an inquisition by any authoritarian regime.
I am very sorry , how dare I question the integrity of a mass murderer, when western capitalists are desperate to trade with China, and do nothing to free tibet from chinese imperialist occupation, and who would like to quietly hush up chinas recent past.
I must write out one thousand times that I must not start a thread without giving reference to why i started it at this particular time AND THAT I MUST GIVE AN OPINION.
it is my experience on this forum, that it is better.when one is asking for the truth or opinions on a subject, to just present facts and then ask people for their opinions on whether they think it may be biased, that is what i did and that is what i will continue to do.
if others do not like it they can start their own posts on the subject, have a nice day

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 May 16 - 01:44 PM

Date of death of Mao Tse Tung: 9/9/76
Dates of Tiananmen Square protests:15/4/89 - 4/6/89

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 May 16 - 02:12 PM

backwoodsman, i never connected MAO with Tiananmen Square protests, did I?
However,Chinese governments following Mao, clearly inherited his murderous nature, none of which alters the fact that Mao as a dictator murdered more people than hitler or stalin, what he practised was not Communism but maoism ,the cult of mao

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: DMcG
Date: 15 May 16 - 02:51 PM

Reputedly by Stalin: one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.


I have no interest is whether Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot and the other contenders killed most. Each killed enough to be condemned unreservedly and dwelling on the precise number aggrandises them In a way I am not prepared to. When people reach this level of monstrosity, the numbers reflect opportunity more than anything else.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 May 16 - 03:28 PM

"backwoodsman, i never connected MAO with Tiananmen Square protests, did I?"

You might not have done, but MeganL did in her post of 15 May 16 - 10:44 AM. It was her comment I was responding to.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Megan L
Date: 15 May 16 - 03:33 PM

I was checking my dates after what MGM said

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 May 16 - 04:09 PM

Yep, I realised that Megan, but your post piqued my interest so I checked and posted my findings. You were absolutely correct.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 May 16 - 03:24 AM

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Winston S Curchill.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 16 May 16 - 04:27 AM

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Winston S Curchill.

At the risk of thread drift - quotes attributed to Churchill are like songs that become Irish, no matter what their origin.

According to multiple sources on the Internet, including this one, the quote most often used is from a letter written by Lord Acton in 1887. Even then, the idea wasn't original. Something similar had been used several times before then, most notably by William Pitt the Elder in 1770.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Lighter
Date: 16 May 16 - 07:50 AM

According to The Yale Book of Quotations (edited by the estimable Fred Shapiro), Lord Acton wrote the following to Mandell Creighton on April 3, 1887:

"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 May 16 - 07:56 AM

There is a serious tendency toward capitalism among the well-to-do peasants.

Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy.

The Communist party must control the guns.

A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery. It cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another.

                                          -- Mao Zedong

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: leeneia
Date: 16 May 16 - 10:05 AM

I had a friend (RIP) who visited China more than twenty years ago. Sorry, I don't remember the year. She showed us a picture of her guide, and said the guide told her group that he had had a little sister. One day, during the so-called Cultural Revolution, an armed youth showed up and took the little girl away. They never saw her again.

There was nowhere to protest, and for years they were afraid to speak of it.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 May 16 - 12:38 PM

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: DMcG - PM
Date: 15 May 16 - 02:51 PM

Reputedly by Stalin: one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.


I have no interest is whether Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot and the other contenders killed most. Each killed enough to be condemned unreservedly and dwelling on the precise number aggrandises them In a way I am not prepared to. When people reach this level of monstrosity, the numbers reflect opportunity more than anything else.
      you may have no interest, but the relatives of those killed probaly feel differently, and anybody believes in justice would surely want to expose and let people know about the chines occupation of a peaceful nation tibet and the murderous behaiviour of chines governments from 1950 until 1992, most of which was down to maoand which his predecessors appear to have inherited. china must leave Tibet now.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: DMcG
Date: 16 May 16 - 02:09 PM

Certainly their relatives care. The people of the country care. And rightly so, and we should care about the victims, direct and indirect.

Which is precisely why I do not wish to give any of these leaders "pride of place" as the one who killed most. All reached such depths that they are to be condemned utterly, irrespective of numbers.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 16 May 16 - 04:36 PM

According to the good soldier , it was Maoism that Mao practised not communism. I trust that the same criteria will be used of other isms , particularly when the leaders of those isms did not behave badly.    But I wonder whether the same reasoning wil be used as regards other leaders and states that identify as communist.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: meself
Date: 16 May 16 - 06:32 PM

We'll get an argument going here yet - don't give up!

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 May 16 - 06:46 PM

I trust that the same criteria will be used of other isms...

You thinking of Creation-ISM, pete? Whose leaders do, indeed, behave VERY badly.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Bill D
Date: 16 May 16 - 06:47 PM

It was not the truth of the OP that concerned Joe originally...or me, who just now saw this thread. It was the total LACK of quotation marks or named sources. If I was still teaching beginning college students, such an omission would be grounds for failing the students' paper.

It is always proper to make clear the difference between one's own opinion and the opinion of someone elses article.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Ed T
Date: 16 May 16 - 07:57 PM

"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished - unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
Voltaire

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 16 - 07:10 AM

Bill,

" According to the authoritative "Black Book of Communism," "

Named source



See OP.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 17 May 16 - 12:39 PM

" According to the authoritative "Black Book of Communism,"

These are not the words of the opening poster, just a part of the unattributed copy and paste. The original author's name and details do appear towards the end of the post but I suspect that this was fortuitous, rather than a deliberate acknowledgement, as the copy and paste spilt over past the end of the original article , ending rather strangely in mid-sentence.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Lighter
Date: 17 May 16 - 12:44 PM

Eight authors and editors of various nationalities, 858 pages, Harvard University Press, 1999.

Books don't get much more authoritative than that.

From N.Y. Times review by Alan Ryan, Professor of Politics at Oxford: "This is the body count of a colossal, wholly failed, social, economic, political, and psychological experiment. It is a criminal indictment, and it rightly reads like one."

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: meself
Date: 17 May 16 - 01:12 PM

Yes - but the point of the criticism is, of course, not that the source is or isn't authoritative, but that no source was given in the opening cut-and-paste.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Lighter
Date: 17 May 16 - 01:32 PM

I think you'll see that it was.

The real problem is the lack of quotation marks to indicate direct quotation.

If there was also a mediating source, that too should have been indicated.

Common cut-&-paste problems.

The quotes from Mao should be sourced as well.

Websites often misquote and attribute fake quotes to famous people, esp. famous (or infamous) historical figures.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 May 16 - 02:20 PM

Since Dick failed to do so (as is his habit), I gave a link to the source of the text of the first message in the second message of this thread.

It is an article titled The Legacy of Mao Zedong is Mass Murder, By Lee Edwards, Ph.D., published in February 2010 on the Website of the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank based in Washington, DC.

On the same day he started this thread, Dick reopened a 2003 thread about Neil Sharpley. He reopened the other thread by copying the text of somebody's 2003 message from earlier in the thread, and pasting it in as if it were his own message - giving no indication that this was a message written by another person in 2003.

This practice makes it difficult for the rest of us to carry on a discussion. If you post text that comes from somebody else, please do the rest of us the courtesy of telling us where you got the text from.

In addition, in both of these instances, Did did not post one word of his own. This is my personal opinion, but I think it is rude to post the work of somebody else without any explanation. If you wish to start or reopen a thread, don't just post a link or a copy-paste. Give at least a sentence or two telling us what you want to talk about, and what your own thinking is on the matter. These are not rules for Mudcat. These are my own observations of the principles of human communication. If you communicate only in copy-pastes and links, that's not really communication.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 May 16 - 02:41 PM

Ah, the Heritage Foundation! That fount of truth!

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 May 16 - 04:17 PM

Well, it's truth for some, Greg. Can't say I agree with them...

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 May 16 - 05:07 PM

its quite clear who the author was it is mentioned at the bottom of the post. in my second post i made it clear he was an american conservative. none of which alters the fact that Mao was not a true communist, that he invaded and occupied tibet and that thousands of chines people have dissappeared or are unaccounted for;.
if you do not agree with that joe, you are walking around with closed eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: meself
Date: 17 May 16 - 06:09 PM

Private Schweik - You've said several times that Mao was not a 'true' communist, and I've heard the same said of almost every prominent nominally-communist leader. So, for the sake of discussion, would you care to explain why, in your view, Mao was not a 'true communist'? Only if you feel like it; no pressure!

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 May 16 - 08:21 PM

Well, it's truth for some, Greg.

So, I suppose, is the spew that Trump comes up with & so is "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" Joe.

But that's stretching the definition of "truth", methinks.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 May 16 - 09:17 PM

"There is a serious tendency towards capitalism among the well-to-do peasants. This tendency will become rampant if we in the slightest way neglect political work among the peasants during the co-operative movement and for a very long period after."

Introductory note to "A Resolute Struggle Must Be Waged Against the Tendency Towards Capitalism" (1955), The Socialist Upsurge in China's Countryside, Chinese ed., Vol. I.

"Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy."   --Mao Zedong, On Practice and Contradiction.

"The Communist party must control the guns."   This appears to be a reconstruction of "Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party."
--"Problems of War and Strategy" (November 6, 1938), Selected Works, Vol. II, p. 224.

"A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery. It cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another."
                --"Report on an Investigation of the Peasant Movement in Hunan" (March 1927), Selected Works, Vol. I, p. 28.

Please look them up yourself from now on if I do not supply a source. I did that for 40+ years and I'm tired of it.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 May 16 - 02:33 AM

meself here is the dictionary definition of communism
a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.
Maos political policies did not do that, therefore he was not a true communist
here is a quote from wiki which show a couple of his policies and their results
In 1957, he launched the Great Leap Forward campaign that aimed to rapidly transform China's economy from an agrarian economy to an industrial one. The campaign led to a widespread famine, whose death toll is estimated at between 18 and 45 million. In 1966, he initiated the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, a program to remove "counter-revolutionary" elements of Chinese society that lasted 10 years and which was marked by violent class struggle.
the great leap forward did not result in property being owned by the community and people receiving unto their needs, it resulted in famine.
Mao was an egomaniacal imbecile

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 May 16 - 02:33 AM

meself here is the dictionary definition of communism
a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.
Maos political policies did not do that, therefore he was not a true communist
here is a quote from wiki which show a couple of his policies and their results
In 1957, he launched the Great Leap Forward campaign that aimed to rapidly transform China's economy from an agrarian economy to an industrial one. The campaign led to a widespread famine, whose death toll is estimated at between 18 and 45 million. In 1966, he initiated the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, a program to remove "counter-revolutionary" elements of Chinese society that lasted 10 years and which was marked by violent class struggle.
the great leap forward did not result in property being owned by the community and people receiving unto their needs, it resulted in famine.
Mao was an egomaniacal imbecile

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 May 16 - 02:57 AM

A polite suggestion Dick - why not italicise quotes, and enclose them in inverted commas? That way, the reader can easily see which parts are the quotes and which are your own words.

I believe that would negate the criticisms that have been directed towards you elsewhere on this thread, and others, with regard to your writing style.

In the post above, and in your earlier posts, it's difficult to see where your quotes begin and end, and which parts are your own contribution. It's very frustrating for the reader to try to understand which is which.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Lighter
Date: 18 May 16 - 07:38 AM

>"The Communist party must control the guns."   This appears to be a reconstruction of "Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party."

Thanks, Rap. I've been doing this for fifty years. And yes, it can be annoying.

This is the quote I suspected of being bogus. And it turns out it is.

Mao's actual words are about military power, not individual gun ownership. (There's a big difference between "the gun" and "the guns.")

The "reconstruction" (i.e., distortion), easy to find on right-wing sites, implies that he was talking about what he'd do to the Second Amendment after the Commie/liberal takeover of the U.S.

Undoubtedly he would have done it. But the distorted version is misleading about what he meant and when he meant it.

I doubt Mao spent much time plotting against the Second Amendment.

A perfect ex. of why we need to see the sources of controversial statements.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 May 16 - 07:39 AM

I could make some polite suggestions to a number of people particularly joe offer

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Charmion
Date: 18 May 16 - 08:21 AM

"Chairman Mao mass murder is it true"

Of course it's true. Queen Anne is dead, and the sun rises in the east.

Try to keep up.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 May 16 - 05:09 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Lighter - PM
Date: 18 May 16 - 07:38 AM

>"The Communist party must control the guns."   This appears to be a reconstruction of "Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party."

Thanks, Rap. I've been doing this for fifty years. And yes, it can be annoying.

This is the quote I suspected of being bogus. And it turns out it is.

Mao's actual words are about military power, not individual gun ownership. (There's a big difference between "the gun" and "the guns.")

The "reconstruction" (i.e., distortion), easy to find on right-wing sites, implies that he was talking about what he'd do to the Second Amendment after the Commie/liberal takeover of the U.S.

Undoubtedly he would have done it. But the distorted version is misleading about what he meant and when he meant it.

I doubt Mao spent much time plotting against the Second Amendment.

A perfect ex. of why we need to see the sources of controversial statements."
quote lighter.
controversial statement or not, it happens that this american conservative is right that Mao was a mass killer. much less important but typical of mudcat is the quote
(There's a big difference between "the gun" and "the guns.")
can you not see the wood from the trees.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 18 May 16 - 05:19 PM

Does seem a non argument, charmion, and the arguments seem to be peripheral, the current being, was he a true communist. The fact is , I believe, that is how he self identified. Of course, this line of reasoning is applicable to other belief systems , and hopefully we can see that when someone does anything that is contrary to the beliefs they claim to follow , they are being inconsistent with whatever it is they self identify with.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Lighter
Date: 19 May 16 - 07:24 AM

The issue is accurate quotation.

One can't just make up stuff that somebody might have said if he'd thought of saying it.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 May 16 - 11:55 AM

the issue is whether,Mao was a mass murderer,the issue is not cutting and pasting and using italics. Pooters of this world take note

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 May 16 - 11:59 AM

My case rests.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 May 16 - 12:11 PM

the issue is whether,Mao was a mass murderer,

There isn't, and there wasn't an issue. What there is, is a fact.

See 18 May 16 - 08:21 AM

As was Andy Jackson a mass murderer.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Ed T
Date: 19 May 16 - 02:48 PM

Bear sense 

well, now that the Mao(naise) thing has been certified true, maybe we could discuss this topic?

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 May 16 - 03:04 PM

I thought a pooter was a gizmo for sucking up spiders without getting them in your mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: robomatic
Date: 20 May 16 - 01:07 PM

China has a history of catastrophic death due to civil war. Check out the Taiping Rebellion.

Subject: RE: BS: chairman Mao mass murder is it true
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 May 16 - 01:16 PM

I thought a pooter was a gizmo for sucking up spiders

And then of course, there's your COM-Pooter.....