BS: Don't drive into flooded roads

Subject: BS: Don't drive into fooded roads
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Jun 16 - 08:44 AM

Car experiment shows extent of flood danger click on link for video

A world-first experiment in Sydney, Australia has found just how easily cars can be carried away by shallow water, making the crossing of floodwaters by drivers a potentially life-threatening decision.

Three men died after being swept away while trying to drive through floods in separate incidents in the ACT, the NSW southern highlands and Sydney's south-west during extreme weather earlier this month.

Engineers at the University of New South Wales used a test tank in Manly Vale on Sydney's northern beaches to replicate scenarios faced by stranded drivers.

They found that vehicles became vulnerable to moving floodwaters once the depth reached the floor of the car.

Principal engineer, Grantley Smith, said he was surprised at just how little water it took to make a car float away.

"People don't realise that even slow-moving water packs a powerful punch. Water is heavy: each cubic metre weighs about 1,000 kilogram," he said.

"If a house is exposed to floodwaters two metres deep and 20 metres wide - travelling at a steady 1 metre/second - the force is equivalent to being hit by a 40-tonne semi-trailer every 15 seconds.

"New cars in particular have really been made airtight because of the climate control systems that they have to keep the air conditioning temperature at the setting you'd like.

"Because they are airtight they are also water tight.

    "So when you drive a car into water they just bob around like a cork. It's like having a boat on the water, they just float on the top of the water because no water can get into cabin of the vehicle."

Researchers found that even in low levels of water and slow flow speeds, floodwaters had a powerful enough force to make them float away.

They found that a small car like a Toyota Yaris, weighing 1.05 tonnes, was moved by water only 15 cm deep and with a flow speed of 1 metre/second (or 3.6 km/h).

Mr Smith said that in 60cm of water the car completely floated away.

"So that Toyota Yaris becomes unstable in the floodwater, that is in moving floodwaters when there is about 20 centimetres of water around the car," he said.

Mr Smith said the researchers also tested a 2.5-tonne Nissan Patrol 4WD which they found would float once the water reached 95cm in depth.

"The 4WD — because it's a much larger vehicle, it weighs 2.5 tonnes — it starts becoming unstable when the water is about 45 centimetres deep, when the water is moving past at walking pace," he said.

"I was quite surprised about just how shallow the water depth were when the cars started to move quite easily in our tests.

"What we've found is that you really have to test it at full scale to get the buoyancy effects right to get the forces on the vehicle, measuring those correctly you really need to do that at full scale."

The tests are a world first, as previous experiments to understand the force of floodwaters have relied on using vehicle miniatures, rather than actual cars.

15cm = 12 inches, 1 metre = 39 inches

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jun 16 - 08:53 AM

Sorry to pick up on a typo on such a serious subject Sandra , but couldn't resist
"Don't drive into fooded roads"
Maybe you'll find yourself in a pickle, land in the soup and meat your end
Won't happen again
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Jun 16 - 11:06 AM

oops - I'll contact Joe

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jun 16 - 11:13 AM

Ah don't - was going to continue in that vein - "fork in the road" and all that

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Jun 16 - 01:03 PM

We had a flooding in our first village some years ago. A very small stream runs through it, and there's a ford. The water had risen and I (in my tiny Ford Fiesta) stupidly decided to drive very fast through it and out the other side.
The car stopped, water came up under the floor and suddenly I was floating. Luckily a farmer was parked nearby in his tractor having some tea out of his Thermos flask, and he got his vehicle downstream to stop my car's progress. He got soaked attaching a towline and pulled me out.
I nearly offered to marry him!
I watched helplessly as my rear number plate swiftly floated away out of sight.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jun 16 - 02:04 PM

Just don't. Even with still water the road can be damaged to the point that you'll get stuck.

If you don't know, don't go; if you're unsure, stay ashore.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Jun 16 - 03:55 PM

Well I was lucky, as the water was only about five feet deep, and I can swim. But only if I could have exited the car before it filled up inside.
I actually felt a complete nitwit.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Jun 16 - 06:40 PM

If there is water on the road the worst thing that you can do is increase speed to drive through it - drive as slowly as possible - driving through it at speed causes water to splash up into the engine bay and short out the cars electrics. Before entering the water if your vehicle has electric windows make sure you have all electronically operated windows open.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Jun 16 - 10:40 PM

we get lots of warnings not to drive on flooded road, but folks still do - 2 weeks ago when we had heavy rain & floods along the entire East Coast of Australia over 70 drivers in the Sydney area were rescued from flooded roads & 3 died, despite continual warnings not to enter flood water because of water speed, water strength & possible road surface damage.

A letter to the editor suggested the reasons people keep entering flooded water is car ads showing 4-wheel drive vehicles driving thru creeks etc.

WATER CROSSINGS Your 4WD isn't a boat It amazes us that TV advertising for 4WDs shows them being driven at high speed on beaches, with salt water spraying everywhere. If you drive your new 4WD like that and the dealer finds any trace of salt water under it you can kiss your warranty good-bye. It's called 'driver abuse' – but not, apparently, when the maker's advertising agency does it.

A 4WD isn't a boat, but drive one into deep, fast-flowing water and you can believe you're in one. A fast current has enormous power – more than enough to 'float' a heavy 4WD off a causeway and send it over the edge.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 16 - 10:53 PM

Shane has repeatedly ignored this kind of good advice, and has had at least 7 cars he was driving either swept away or sunk in deep water...and all of them were other people's cars, of course, because Shane has no license. Despite this, Shane is still with us. Some would call this "dumb luck". He also enters the water at the highest speed possible, by the way. He's done it with trucks too, as well as a simply amazing number of snowmobiles (sunk while driving on lake and river ice).

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jun 16 - 12:06 AM

We have a freeway underpass that collects water when there's a good storm. I think I know how full it will get, and I think I can get through it if I keep going and don't stop. So, I slow up until I know the underpass is clear, and then I drive through at a steady speed. So far, I've made it every time. If I don't know how deep it's going to be, I stay away.
I took the Boy Scouts to a campout one December, planning to go home after I dropped the kids off. But I stayed an hour and the creek I forded had risen in the meantime, so decided I'd better stay overnight.
Glad I did. I saw a great waterfall while I was there.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Jun 16 - 06:50 AM

Know your car. More specifically, where the air intake is. Some cars (Renault Espace certainly) have them in the bumper (fender).
Those are the cars that need new engines after scooping up water. Water doesn't compress like air. Conrods don't compress exactly, but they give sooner than trapped water!!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Janie
Date: 19 Jun 16 - 12:33 PM

Whether you know your car or not, you may misgauge the dip in the road where due to torrain, water is covering and flowing in low spots even 100s of feet from any creek.

Just don't do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 16 - 03:01 PM

If you absolutely have to die
The resolutely, give it a try

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 16 - 04:25 PM

Then resolutely....

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 16 - 04:40 PM

I'd only consider it if I could see another car similar to mine do it and get through safely. And probably not even then. Even if it,s inches deep there's always a risk of shorting out your electrics and getting stuck hhalf way.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Janie
Date: 19 Jun 16 - 05:40 PM

Approaching creeks or underpasses, have always been cautious. Anytime fording a rill, creek or river sans a bridge, don't do it if the water is high. Never cross a ford when the water is more than ankle high, and that assumes the floor of the car is much higher than ankle high. Never cross a creek or river that has a bridge if the water is high enough to cover the the roadbed.

If you approach a low spot on a road not associated with a creek or waterbed, stop and wade through the low spot to assess. Turn back if the depth of the low spot is not lower than the front axle on your car, or if there is any current. Also turn back if you are not willing to wade in to access. Never assume.

Sad voice of experience speaking.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: JennieG
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 02:05 AM

There are probably different reasons why people drive through flood waters......a sense of urgency about the house and/or people in it (must get home before the weather worsens), over-estimating either the driver's or the vehicle's capabilities (just because those 4WDs in TV ads can do it under 'controlled circumstances' doesn't mean you can).....but no matter what the reason, don't do it.

Just don't.

Shane has special powers, which is why he can!

I saw that TV report, it was quite surprising. A little girl was able to move a large 4WD around in the water tank with seemingly no effort at all, so it made us realise just how much water could move a vehicle.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: BobL
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 02:26 AM

My technique was to wait for some else to go first so I could check the depth of the water. And to carry a tow rope.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 04:06 AM

In Glasgow in the Seventies there were very bad floods. I remember one evening seeing a taxi completely submerged in a dip under a bridge, with its 'For Hire' light still lit, glowing orange under the water. The occupants had luckily got out in time. And a double-decker bus stupidly entered a flooded bit of road; all the passengers could be seen rushing up the staircase to get onto the top deck, as the water poured in. Several toilets in people's houses exploded like fountains with the pressure in the sewers.
My Ford Fiesta needed quite a bit of attention from the village garage mechanic to sort out the effects of the water, and it stank horribly for weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: JHW
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 06:18 AM

Worst car I had for floods (and everything else) was my Allegro. The clutch filled up with silt.
Never tried a river but my 4WD Subaru Legacy never went far into a big puddle as they'd put the distributor right at the bottom of the engine.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 07:40 PM

& forgot to tell their advertising agency!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jun 16 - 03:23 AM

Not flooding - just wet roads.
We were travelling though North Norfolk to visit a friend when we saw a large bird spreadeagled in front of us on the road - it turned out to be a Crested Grebe that had somehow damaged itself - no sign of having been hit by another vehicle.
Not being able to find a vet to take care of it, we took it to a local seal sanctuary who agreed to take care of it and explained that, on wet days roads resemble rivers and occasionally try to land on them.
A story we heard of down in the West of England:
An American tourist was driving around the small roads in Devon in his big car, when he came to a ford - a river crossing the road.
Not being sure how deep it was he reversed for a few hundred yards until he came to a farmer leaning on a gate and explained his predicament.
The Farmer said, "You'll be all right sir, it's not very deep", so the Yank thanked him and drove off.
He started to drive through the water, which got deeper and deeper until it began to lap into the car, so, feet awash, he backed out and down the road as far as the farmer again.
"I thought you said that water wasn't very deep, man!!"
"Well", said the old man, "It only comes about halfway up my ducks."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Jun 16 - 04:33 AM

Jim, that was so kind of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jun 16 - 10:18 AM

"Jim, that was so kind of you."
Nice of you to say so Sen.
Wouldn't have considered doing anything else, after all, you never know when you might need the help of a Crested Grebe to get you home after closing time!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Jun 16 - 12:04 PM

Hahahaha!

"I wasn't driving, honestly Officer! It was this 'ere Crested Grebe!"

Subject: RE: BS: Don't drive into flooded roads
From: Andrez
Date: 21 Jun 16 - 11:34 PM

Having lived and worked driving Toyota Landcruisers down red dirt roads to very remote outback communities that experienced regular 'wet seasons' and frequent cyclones, I can confirm that Janie's advice above is totally appropriate. Sad to hear it was the 'voice of experience' speaking!

The Toyota car experiment findings reported by Sandra above only serves to highlight the need for extreme caution and referencing Jim's joke 'local' knowledge about water flows can only be a guide and cant always be relied on. The bottom line is: 'if in doubt, don't".

Cheers,

Andrez