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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,In good company Date: 01 Sep 16 - 04:44 AM Thank you Les. Pity I never made it to the Beech prior to emigrating to Yorkshire. :-) One day perhaps... One thing I failed to note in my post is that this is the first time SFF has run after the massive increase in race hate crime following the EU vote. I am not trying to ban or even censure anything else but I would say well done to them for recognising that there could be a related issue and removing any excuse that the racists may use as justification. Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Les in Chorlton Date: 01 Sep 16 - 04:11 AM Their are no 'yellow skinned people' GSS. Please read what Dave wrote above it's the best post on the racist nature of this issue I have ever read. As for the historical issue I repeat the question - will Border Morris acknowledge the historical link to Minstrelsy? If not why not? "Les, I doubt many Border sides would know what Minstrelsy is let alone base their blackface on it." They seem quite well versed in the link with the 'disguise' hypothesis and so to much earlier folk Art events. Where did they, and other defenders, get that from whilst being totally unfamiliar with the much more obvious evidence of the link to Minstrelsy. Thanks very much to Dave above - well evidenced, argued and written. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: The Sandman Date: 01 Sep 16 - 03:41 AM Logically if it not acceptable to use brown or black, it must no longer be acceptable for black or brown dancers or guisers to use white? so is it acceptable to use yellow? would it offend yellow skinned people? so if people want to disguse them selves and they are pink or white they must only use green or blue, black or brown guisers must also use green or blue? we had better all start getting shares in Woad making companies. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Steve Gardham Date: 01 Sep 16 - 02:50 AM No Ed, The first troupes of Ethiopian Serenaders came over about 1840 and were immediately a massive hit to the same extent that the Beatles were in the 1960s. They continued to come over for at least the next 20 years or so until we had formed our own very successful minstrel troupes, many of them with Americans like Pony Moore who settled here. The Beatles obviously were a big hit here in the 1960s and then cracked America. The minstrel troupes were a big hit in America and also over here not long after. This is well documented in many books on the subject. I have copies of some of the original sheet music. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Steve Shaw Date: 31 Aug 16 - 08:58 PM "I had been away to the West Indies and returned with souvenir Rasta hat and mini steel drum with every intention of using both at the folk club one night. Well, the night came and, for the first time ever, a black man came into the club. The hat and drum stayed firmly in my bag and from that day on I have not blacked up. I have no idea if the black man would have been offended or not. The point was, if I did NOT do it, there was no chance whatsoever of him being offended." Well said! |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Morris-ey Date: 31 Aug 16 - 07:03 PM "Intrestin point Morris-ey, would you be fine with you if some of them Border dancers acknowledged their roots in Minstrelsy?" Les, I doubt many Border sides would know what Minstrelsy is let alone base their blackface on it. If, however some black up for that reason, then I would be happy if they acknowledged it. That is not to say I would approve. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,In good company Date: 31 Aug 16 - 06:02 PM I feel I am reasonably well qualified to comment. I have danced black face. I have performed a mummers play in black face. As the son of an east European immigrant I have been the recipient of racist abuse which was part of the reason that my family changed our surname. Things do and should move on. When I suffered said abuse it was in a backwater Northern town in the 1950s. Never happened after 1964 when I attended senior school with a different set of people who did not know my original surname. In the light of recent news I am both relieved and angry that my surname is no longer east European and even more so that my sons and grandsons will never be called names, spat at, or worse for having a foreign surname or speaking a different language. Sorry for the apparent drift but now you know part of my story I can get back to the thread. I never had a concept of colour being a definition of someones character. When, in those heady days of Bernard Manning and co, jokes were made based on racial stereotypes I never really understood them. When, in the 1980s and 1990s I danced and acted in black face it never dawned on me that some may see it as offensive and I argued strongly, using all the previous points, that black face was completely innocuous. However, it was pointed out, possibly on here, that it may be seen as parody and stereotype and could therefore be regarded as offensive. This planted the seed in my mind. Some time later, possibly early 2000s, I had been away to the West Indies and returned with souvenir Rasta hat and mini steel drum with every intention of using both at the folk club one night. Well, the night came and, for the first time ever, a black man came into the club. The hat and drum stayed firmly in my bag and from that day on I have not blacked up. I have no idea if the black man would have been offended or not. The point was, if I did NOT do it, there was no chance whatsoever of him being offended. Apart from by my poor singing of course. Sorry to ramble on so I suppose I should get to the point really. The type of racist thugs that beat a poor Polish man to death because they believe everyone else dislikes immigration could happily latch on to an excuse to take the piss out of black people by masking it (pun intended) as tradition. All I ask is, why risk it when there are many perfectly good alternatives? Thanks for listening. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST Date: 31 Aug 16 - 04:56 PM Does this mean the band 'All Blacked Up' will be banned too ? |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Ed Date: 31 Aug 16 - 04:45 PM The main thrust in Britain came in about 1840 when following their enormous success in America the first troupes came over here and were equally an enormous success. (Think The Beatles) Apologies Steve if I'm being a bit dim, but I don't really understand The Beatles reference. Presumably you're thinking of the '64 'American Invasion' and their re-exporting Black American music? I can't get the analogy though. But I'm really tired this evening... |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Steve Gardham Date: 31 Aug 16 - 04:24 PM Undoubtedly many of our traditions we like to think of as going back many centuries in fact are linked to minstrelsy. Some of the tunes used are indeed minstrel tunes and in my own part of the world in the early years of the last century the N word was used freely, but not in a derogatory way. Bacup has been mentioned. To add a little to the historical context not fully explained by Hutton, minstrel-type blacking up by performers goes back to the late 18th century (solo artistes only). The main thrust in Britain came in about 1840 when following their enormous success in America the first troupes came over here and were equally an enormous success. (Think The Beatles) Their tunes and performances were understandably immediately incorporated into our existing traditions. This is not to say blacking up did not predate this. The principal effect was disguise and the quickest/cheapest way to effect this was soot or burnt cork or similar. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Les in Chorlton Date: 31 Aug 16 - 01:09 PM Intrestin point Morris-ey, would you be fine with you if some of them Border dancers acknowledged their roots in Minstrelsy? |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Morris-ey Date: 31 Aug 16 - 11:43 AM Shrewsbury FF are not trying to ban blackface, simply saying they won't have it at their festival. If Border sides want to black-up that is fine by me. It is equally fine by me if some festival organisers choose not to have them. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Les in Chorlton Date: 31 Aug 16 - 08:40 AM I guess this thread hs run it's course since most of us cannot find the time to read all the previous posts. If my point has made I apologise: Quotes from earlier threads on the subject: Derek went on to add in the same thread: 'Having looked into blacking up for the EDS feature that Ruth Archer has kindly quoted from, there is undoubtedly an influence on English folk culture from minstrelsy. Bacup may be one, Padstow mummers may be another, the 20th century traditional Border morris which has been copied by revival sides might be another. The question is ...has the blacking up transcended its origin and now have a life of its own? Does this practice offend sectors of our society? (And I don't mean just the black members of our society ... white people might also be offended). And if so, are we prepared to do anything about it?' Another quote from the same thread, from Dave Hunt: 'A version of the 'A' part of the tune is also used for the tune known as 'Clee Hill' as collected from Dennis Crowther who is from that area, which is not far from Ludlow in South Shropshire. The tune was used by the morris/molly dancers from Clee Hill area and in 'pre-PC' days was known as 'The niggerin' tune' as the dancers went out with blacked-up faces and called it 'Goin' out a-niggerin' The use of the term molly instead of morris,was common in Shropshire and I have met people who remembers 'Going out molly-dancing' in East Shropshire in the 1930s-40s ' And something else that I said later on in the same thread: 'Finally, a few people have said that it would be interesting to hear from a black person what they feel about all of this. Well, the article from EDS that I quoted earlier interviewed several people about the practice, including a dance caller named Nigel Hogg. This is what he had to say: "I have watched many different dance groups around the country, and on certain occasions I have seen groups black up to perform. As a mixed race man I do find this tradition offensive because I see it as a parody mocking people of colour. I would imagine that the people who perform these dances are not racists, and on some levels the people involved have not even though about the implications these dances might have to people of colour." ' Part of the problem is the almost total disregard in morris circles for historical and academic evidence. The evidence seems quite clearly to link blackface in Border Morris to Minstrelsy but the people involved don't acknowledge this - please tell us why. It's a clever sidestep to point to backface in other much older folk activities - although the evidence for blackface in pre minstrelsy morris almost non existent. Best wishes |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Senoufou Date: 31 Aug 16 - 06:54 AM Ha! I see the clicky thing was about Professor Hutton, not the Morris Ring. But what I still think it's brilliant. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Senoufou Date: 31 Aug 16 - 06:50 AM Backwoodsman (swoons) thank you! :) Guest ST That quote from the Morris Ring is the most sensible and pertinent post in this whole thread so far. The two traditions are so different in intent and form, yet people seem to confuse them due to globalisation and modern international mixing of styles. The one began as "making mocking fun of n******" and the other is/was about disguise in English rural communities, albeit resurrected long after those times. My favourite border Morris side is the Witchmen. I'm not totally knowledgeable about their ethos (far from it, I'm just an avid fan and onlooker) but they seem to me to have borrowed much from the Pagan type of style, with amber and black representing magical powers, and their aggressive fist-clenching dancing. Their blacked-up faces are meant (I think) to be sinister and threatening in a delicious way. There is absolutely nothing of the parodying of African-origin people in any of it. If they were blue, green, pink or yellow it just wouldn't be the same. Need I add that my husband has been hugged by them too, and has loads of pictures of himself surrounded by their grinning blacked-up faces! |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Steve Shaw Date: 31 Aug 16 - 06:43 AM That's a sane and balanced statement from Professor Hutton. The globalisation genie is out of the lamp. I'd say that no-one should be ordering anyone to stop doing it, and I'd also say that it's unfair to call a whole bunch of Morris dancers racist. But it's just best all round not to be doing it any more. That's OK. Traditions can move on uninjured. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Backwoodsman Date: 31 Aug 16 - 06:37 AM Senoufou The Wise hits the nail on the head again. My heroine! 👍 |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,ST Date: 31 Aug 16 - 06:36 AM Two useful statements have recently been made; apologies if I've missed them earlier in this thread. One here is from the Morris Ring. The other appeared in a discussion on Facebook and is a quote from a letter from Prof. Ronald Hutton to a Facebook member. I hope I'm not breaking any rules/laws by reproducing it but it seems such a balanced and realistic response I think it's worth the risk. (Mods please delete if it shouldn't be here) "What we see here is a direct clash between two different national traditions, one American and one British. The American consists of blacking up white people to impersonate black people for entertainment, often with connotations of condescension or mockery. This is, then, a tradition which could credibly be described as racist. The British one consists of blacking up white people to erase their everyday identity and turn them into symbolic figures of seasonal festivity, justice or rebellion: the overriding connotation is one of transgression of norms, and is not racist. The problem is created when globalisation (which in this case, as often happens, means Americanisation) imposes the first set of reference points onto the second. It is the worse in that Border Morris, the tradition which blacks up, was reborn in the 1970s as the most dynamic and popular current branch of the Morris Dance family, playing up wild and transgressive traditional symbolism: it is itself a radical and counter-cultural performance art form. There is no easy answer to this problem. It would be nice if those who make the accusation of racism against Border Morris could learn the difference in the histories from which each derive. It is more likely, however, that the path of least resistance will be taken, and the dancers wear black masks, or paint their faces white, green or red to achieve the distancing effect, instead of blacking up; which would certainly preserve the basic symbolism, while satisfying those who relate blacked-up faces to different associations." |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Senoufou Date: 31 Aug 16 - 04:00 AM Well, Jimmy Savile turned out to have been a prolific sex-offender, but we haven't banned all disc jockeys. For all we know, there may be the odd racist Cotswold Morris dancer, or a BNP member among the Molly brigade (doubt it, but I suppose it IS possible) Why not just ban the individual concerned, and let the border Morris blacked-up folk carry on as usual? |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Bloke in Groucho mask Date: 31 Aug 16 - 02:57 AM As Johnny Silvo had white hair, Tony Capstick used to call him "my negative friend." Johnny laughed with the rest of us, although I'm sure some of the "you're black!" taunts from his school days were bubbling under the surface. We had a lad in our class who was half caste. As well as having to put up with the nickname "Hovis" (don't say brown, say Hovis) he can't have had a good time of school. I recall him saying when he grows up he can choose between black or white girlfriends. What is the betting his father said that to him to comfort his lad when he didn't want to face school? The thing is, no racism was intended either with Tony & Johnny or indeed we school kids and Roy. Differences were being what our pc friends call "celebrated" and ripping the piss out of each other is what many of us do. Reginald D Hunter got it right on Have I Got News For You" a few years ago, commenting on some celebrity get me out programme where a white actress was dancing with a black one and shouted "you pushing it out nigger?" Big uproar in the papers etc and Mr Hunter, after noting that we are crap st being racist in The UK, him having been born and raised in Alabama, said "A friend using street talk to you is just that. If she had been wearing a police uniform and using the same words, that's the time to start worrying." Still, Morris teams have evolved in other ways to suit society, by modern fool props or even the advent of the melodeon (Cecil Sharpe may have thought it as odd as a Les Paul guitar and amp might seem to us watching Morris) so the term "unfortunate" can still hold. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Aug 16 - 05:41 PM "Quite why one bad apple should sully all others, I don't know." My point precisely. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Ed Date: 30 Aug 16 - 04:51 PM Noreen, I believe that Jack was suggesting a search for "mark stevens huntsman pagan" The first result, as I post, is from the fRoots message board which suggests that Mark Stevens is a Border style Morris dancer and is a BNP member and racist. Quite why one bad apple should sully all others, I don't know. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Noreen Date: 30 Aug 16 - 04:30 PM "a few of them see it as an opportunity to express contempt for racial minorities.." I frankly just don't believe this. You haven't actually done the Google search Vic and I have suggested, have you? Jack, could you elaborate on this please? I'm on my phone and can't easily find your earlier post. I've never come across the attitude you allude to in my years with Border Morris. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Bonzo3legs Date: 30 Aug 16 - 04:03 PM It is totally laughable. In any case, nobody has the right not to be offended, and those that are offended are quite frankly idiots with nothing else to do!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Ed Date: 30 Aug 16 - 03:23 PM Indeed so, Howard. I only use this picture of Powderkegs because they are a side local to me, who I've often seen. If they were pretending to be Black then surely ears, neck, chest and hands would be blackend? The thought that they look like black people, is frankly laughable. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Howard Jones Date: 30 Aug 16 - 03:10 PM But no one in the morris is turning out pretending to be a black man. They're turning out as white men (and women) with black faces. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Steve Shaw Date: 30 Aug 16 - 02:23 PM Has anyone actually suggesting that anyone should be "punished?" We're asking that you don't turn out pretending to be a black man. We're not saying don't wear that shirt, don't dance this step, don't play that tune. You'll survive and you may even feel happier. Move on. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Jack Campin Date: 30 Aug 16 - 02:04 PM "a few of them see it as an opportunity to express contempt for racial minorities.." I frankly just don't believe this. You haven't actually done the Google search Vic and I have suggested, have you? |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Vic Smith Date: 30 Aug 16 - 01:09 PM I feel most indignant on their behalf that anyone could suggest there is racism among blacked-up sides. I have been closely involved in folk music for over 50 years; most of my friends come from the folk scene and I have met hundreds of people that I like and admire through my involvement in dance, song and mummers plays. The vast majority of the people that I have met are amongst the kindest and most considerate that I have met. Sadly, though, about 10 years ago there began a campaign by an extreme right wing British political party to infiltrate the folk song and dance scene and subvert our traditional music and song and claim our cultural heritage as a tool of their vile and warped processes. Some of the methods they used against those who opposed them were entirely scurrilous and downright cruel. I was one of their victims because I opposed them and had to endure identity theft on social media and the internet including hideous photoshopped pictures of my wife being posted. Fortunately, many on the folk scene got together in a movement (rather than an organisation) called Folk Against Fascism. It grew very quickly, arranged concerts, produced T-shirts, posters and other artefacts, all to warm and oppose any entryism by those with intolerant racist attitudes. By and large, FaF was very successful and the threat diminished as that political party descended into an internescine shambles. However, remnants of this attitude remain and we must be constantly on our guard. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Aug 16 - 12:35 PM And, even if there were, is it right and proper to punish the innocent majority for the sins of the minority? Of course not! |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Senoufou Date: 30 Aug 16 - 12:27 PM "a few of them see it as an opportunity to express contempt for racial minorities.." I frankly just don't believe this. We've been to no end of Morris festivals over the years, in many places, and must have watched dozens and dozens of different blacked-up sides, both Border and Molly. My husband always tries to get photos of himself, posed with groups of various types of Morris, for his collection. No-one has ever edged away, been frosty, looked askance or uttered anything racist or discouraging. On the contrary, they have hugged him, laughed with him, plonked their hats on his head for the photos, and invited him to dance so I can take some pictures. Many now recognise him from previous visits (he always wears his Ivorian costume) I feel most indignant on their behalf that anyone could suggest there is racism among blacked-up sides. Morris folk are the most friendly, open and charming people you could ever meet. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Jack Campin Date: 30 Aug 16 - 11:19 AM There's also a difference between a side choosing to make changes to the tradition for its own reasons and having changes forced on it for reasons which it thinks are mistaken. A side doesn't have opinions, its members do. Most members of blacking-up sides genuinely think they're doing something innocuously traditional, but a few of them see it as an opportunity to express contempt for racial minorities. Those few (google the search string I suggested) are a real and very serious problem that needs to be dealt with. It's unfortunate that it's come to this but realistically there isn't any other option. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Howard Jones Date: 30 Aug 16 - 11:03 AM I think there's a world of difference between blacking your face to imitate a black person, and blacking it for other purposes. A blacked-up morris dancer doesn't resemble a BME person, and if they did then using a different colour wouldn't make it acceptable (would the Black and White Minstrels have become acceptable if they'd become the Blue and White Minstrels?). There's also a difference between a side choosing to make changes to the tradition for its own reasons and having changes forced on it for reasons which it thinks are mistaken. The current Border Morris was reinvented in the 1970s, but the blacking-up element came from the previous traditions and other folk customs. If a side chooses to use a different colour, whether for dramatic reasons or to avoid giving offence, that's up to them. However I find it disappointing that a prominent folk festival hasn't taken a stronger stance to defend the tradition, rather than caving in. If we're talking about offence, I find FRESh's language offensive when it describes Shropshire as a "white highland" area , and its complaint about morris conflicts with its own policy on cultural diversity which says "Our diverse cultural histories and identities should not be discarded or ignored, but should rather be sustained and valued." Only some of them, apparently. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Nigel Parsons Date: 30 Aug 16 - 10:49 AM If you're going to Shrewsbury fair. Parsley . . . etc. Please don't wear no black face paints there . . . |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel Date: 30 Aug 16 - 10:49 AM Saw the Wild Hunt Bedlam lot - face masks rather than black-face. Really visceral experience! |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Snuffy Date: 30 Aug 16 - 09:56 AM There's a world of difference between colouring the whole of your face in a single colour, and painting various designs and patterns on it. The messages conveyed are totally different. What is it that makes "the tradition" of totally blacking the face so sacrosanct that it's the only part of "the tradition" that can't be changed under any circumstances? Many (most?) border sides seem happy to discard large parts of the recorded tradition such as - only doing traditional dances rather than making up new ones; only dancing in the winter; only dancing at night; all-male sides; referring to their activity as "going n*****ing"; etc, etc. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Vashta Nerada Date: 30 Aug 16 - 09:12 AM http://www.wildhunt.org.uk/index.php |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,pauperback Date: 30 Aug 16 - 05:35 AM Ouch |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Mark Stevens again.... Date: 29 Aug 16 - 10:59 PM Therr's a hoole in my bucket dear Liza, dear Liza Therrr's a hoool in my bucket, dear Liza, A hooole... |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST Date: 29 Aug 16 - 10:08 PM Pots and Kettles to mend ? Your coppers, kettles, pots, and stew pans, Tho' old, shall serve instead of new pans. I'm very moderate in my charge, For mending small as well as large. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Mark Stevens Date: 29 Aug 16 - 06:50 PM Well I would stick to Blacking my face if I had to (my name seems to have blackened), but it does take a lot of washing off. Not that the scouts ever noticed any dirty washbasins.. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,pauperback Date: 29 Aug 16 - 06:49 PM You're thinking of Sam maybe www.schnitzersteel.com/company_history.aspx |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST Date: 29 Aug 16 - 06:43 PM Any old iron, any old iron !! |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST Date: 29 Aug 16 - 06:39 PM Is the scrap metal business not doing so well, these days ... ? Scrap metal, naw, I'm a rag & bone man |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Steve Shaw Date: 29 Aug 16 - 06:29 PM So let's see. Blacking up up can't qualify as a morally reprehensible thing to do unless actual black people complain about it. White people who share those exact same sentiments, though, have no voice. They may think the same thoughts but their complaints are contrived, bogus, condescending middle-class offence-taking. Well strike me down. I've fought racism, as a teacher and trade unionist, both the deliberate and undeliberate kinds of racism, all my life. Blacking up doesn't directly affect me because I'm not a black man and I've never seen it done. It's not a question of my taking some kind of sanctimonious offence over it (of all the things on Mudcat I could take offence over, this is the least of my worries). This is the 21st century. We live in a global village in which racism is a big issue that is much aired. There's been progress. It is not sixties Britain in which you could run a successful election campaign with the slogan "If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour" (Smethwick). You don't see postcards in landladies' windows any more that say "no coloureds." You can't kick black people out of bus seats any more. The world has moved on. Every tradition worth its salt moves on. Here's something: if you black up you just MAY offend someone - and you know it. You'd have to be pig-ignorant not to in this day and age. So just don't do it. You don't have to. Use blue and no-one will notice. I would never ban blacking up, but I would go out of my way to make its practitioners feel bloody uncomfortable if I came across them. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST Date: 29 Aug 16 - 06:24 PM Indeed, GUEST,Morris-ey ! I have better things to spend my money and time on .. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Jack Campin Date: 29 Aug 16 - 06:14 PM Googling "mark stevens huntsman pagan" told me what Vic was driving at. I wouldn't say my life was exactly enriched by the information but I do know more than I did an hour ago. |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: The Sandman Date: 29 Aug 16 - 06:12 PM "Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Morris-ey - PM Date: 29 Aug 16 - 05:49 PM One last time, not that anyone is interested other than in his/her own agendum, it is Shrewsbury's Festival and their rules apply. You don't like it, you don't go. They don't care what you think. Nor do I." they have managed to get a lot of publicity though |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Mark Stevens Date: 29 Aug 16 - 06:09 PM I know enough about you, Vic. Ever since I borrowed Both Sides of The Downs LP from my local library in 1980... Why are you so vindictive ? I guess you've got a chip on your shoulder . That is no longer my problem. :-) |
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Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Morris-ey Date: 29 Aug 16 - 05:49 PM One last time, not that anyone is interested other than in his/her own agendum, it is Shrewsbury's Festival and their rules apply. You don't like it, you don't go. They don't care what you think. Nor do I. |
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