BS: Our Apology

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 01:46 PM

Le Pen ptwo ! I spit in her general direction. Always have. Always will.



Incoherence is relative. The less you know about a subject matter the more incoherent it will seem to you. You will never get the jokes.

Actually it is very difficult for human beings to be deliberately incoherent. Pathological incoherence is not deliberate.

Look what you do to google when you type in an incoherent phrase like twirl in the nabe. It latches onto a known word and scatters from there.


Which weighs more, a Fermion, a Hooperon or a WIMP?
I think a dark matter boson weighs more.

Just because we are not sure of the answer does not make the question incoherent.

Personally I find the Harlow-McGrath-Carrol debates incoherent, until they are not.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 01:52 PM

Another like from me. Or is it a ten from Len?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Stu
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 02:48 PM

"Capitalism cannot be reformed, you either allow it to run efficiently or scrap it"

Reformed isn't the correct word for dealing with capitalism. It is utterly incapable of self regulation so it's up to governments to ensure they act responsibly and if necessary hold them to account.

Nice to see that the alt-right under May is now going to lower corporation tax for the corporate elite and was lying about having workers on the board. Meanwhile, in the US Trump is going to be a part-time president as he uses the position to further his business interests. Anti-establishment? The billionaire corporatist is already lining his own pocket and lining up his own family to help run the US.

This is why capitalism should be regulated; now we have a hard right billionaire and member of the global elite as the most powerful person on the planet. He will NOT help those who voted for him, and the Brexiteers are deluded if they think they're going to get a better life with their tory pals in charge.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 02:56 PM

Thoughtful observation on Brexit by Michéal Martin - not a man I would readily take ac cue from (apart from his Christ-like achievement of making Irish pubs smoker-free zones).

MARTIN CRITICISES BREXIT BRAND OF NATIONALISM
FF Leader calls for greater urgency to tackle Britain's departure from EU
We will not join them in their right-wing ideology
TIM O'BRIEN

Micheál Martin has claimed Ireland will not fall into the trap of "backward-looking nationalism" as the British did over Brexit.
Vowing the Irish "are not going to join the English in their desire to repeal the 20th century", the Fianna Fáil leader used the occasion of the commemoration of former IRA man and later government minister Seán Moylan yesterday to claim "a hard Brexit is already under way".
Mr Martin said Britain had become "suspicious of outsiders and committed to the historically false idea that you don't need strong international bodies to secure lasting cooperation and prosperity between nations".
"We will not join them in their right-wing ideology of trade rules with no social dimension and no enforceable laws," he said.
But he also acknowledged Brexit could be tough on Irish industries which rely on Britain as a key export market.
He called for the EU to allow Ireland to suspend rules on State aid to support industries which take a hit as a result of Brexit.
"In the five months since the UK's Brexit vote the only things which are clear are that their policy is a shambles and that it is already causing real damage on this island. Brexit is not something which is happening in two [years' time], it is happening now."
Mr Martin said Ireland desperately needed a new urgency and ambition in Government to deal with the fallout of Brexit and other rising threats internationally.
"The unprecedented decline in sterling may soon be followed by new barriers to trade," he said. "We can't stand by and;let this slow-motion crash happen."
Mr Martin said the Irish nationalism evident in the commemorations held this year was "open and generous".
"[The events] respected diversity and promoted the idea of reconciliation," he said.
He said, the people of Ireland had shown "how to look to the past in order to help understand who we are and to draw inspiration for our future".
"This has been a powerful testimony to the fact that patriotism can be the mark of an inclusive, modern republic.
"At this grave, dark moment in world affairs we should never stop reminding ourselves of the republican spirit which has defined our modern history and should de¬fine how we face the future."

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 03:31 PM

I think that it is pretty much known now that communism did not work. It suffered from the same issues as capitalism in that it benefited the ruling elite far more than the proletariat. There are benefits to both systems but they must both be tempered with something else. What do we do? Responsibly controlled capitalism? Communism with consumer control? I really don't know and, as that is one of the questions that has been worrying the top economic minds for centuries, I don't think it is going to be solved by soap box politicians on a folk music forum.

In my opinion.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 04:27 PM

Capitalism is regulated. The pendulum swings from highly regulated stability to free swinging exploitation crashes.

example- 1940 to gilded age

An America POV.


Donald Trump is as American as store bought apple pie.
Subject to discrimination, never as good as home made and customers agree the pie is a poor imitation of the real thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 06:02 PM

TRUMP: MAKE AMERIKKKA WHITE AGAIN !!

Jeff Sessions' Other Civil Rights Problem
By THOMAS J. SUGRUENOV. 21, 2016

In 1956, as a way to sidestep Brown v. Board of Education, Alabama voters amended the state Constitution to deprive students of a right to public education. Public support for school funding collapsed in its aftermath. By the early 1990s, huge disparities in funding separated Alabama's haves and have-nots.

Judge Eugene W. Reese of the Alabama Circuit Court found the inequitable funding unconstitutional and ordered the state to come up with a system to remedy the inequity.

Alabama Attorney General Sessions led the battle against the decision. He argued that Judge Reese had overreached. It was a familiar war cry on the segregationist right: An activist court was usurping the power of the state's duly elected officials to solve the problem on their own. Mr. Sessions was lauded by fellow Republicans for his efforts. They saw funding inequities as part of the natural order of things, not as a problem to be remedied.

Advocates of school equity cried foul. "They're asking for the last 50 years to disappear, as far as improving public education," complained C. C. Torbert, the former chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court and the lawyer for the poor districts, about Mr. Sessions and his allies. Special-education and disability organizations were especially outraged: the poorest districts could not provide even basic services to students in need. If Mr. Sessions won, he would "consign an ever-growing number of Alabama schoolchildren to an unconstitutionally inadequate and inequitable education."

Finally, in 1997, the Alabama Supreme Court upheld Judge Reese's finding that the state's educational inequity was unconstitutional. But, as Mr. Sessions (by then a senator) had hoped, the court left the remedy to the state's increasingly conservative Legislature, which made only modest changes in the state's school funding structure.

Alabama's public schools, still underfunded, still separate and unequal, ranked near the bottom nationally, stand as one of Jeff Sessions' most enduring legacies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/opinion/jeff-sessions-other-civil-rights-problem.html

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 06:13 PM

PS: The Alabama State Motto:

Thank God for Mississippi!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 06:48 PM

And this just in!

HEIL TRUMP! Complete with Nazi salutes!!!

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

Ake must be proud.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Stanron
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 07:40 PM

Anyone got any questions?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 07:46 PM

"DARKNESS IS POWER. Dick Cheney. Satan. That's power. It only helps us when they get it wrong. When they're blind to who we are and what we are doing"

Steve Bannon



While this quote is not exactly incoherent, it makes a better heavy metal lyric.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 10:07 PM

By way of apology


Some people like Trump do not forgive or uh forget.
Despots often make anti defamation and treason laws to protect their name and regime. Egypt Iran, Turkey, Russia, NK, Sa are all places not to make fun of the grand poobah.

If tweets can cause strokes, Donald should avoid them.

Who knows, there coul be books about Trump's supersesitivity.

'Miss Maples and the Death Tweet.'

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 12:15 AM

I heard a comedian say that Americans shouldn't feel so bad about this election. After all, she says, countries all over the world have been electing ridiculous leaders lately.

Hey, did you hear the one about Trump suggesting that the UK should appoint Nigel Farage as its Ambassador to the United States?

Do I hear a nervous chuckle in the crowd? A slight titter, perhaps?

Should we all be putting bare-chested Putin posters up in our living rooms? I noticed nobody has suggested bare-chested posters of Trump. That would be too disgusting.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 01:53 AM

What with the alt-right rising and the protests against Trump's decision not to prosecute Hillary which was so key to his campaign, I begin to fear Trump himself could be overwhelmed by the forces he has raised. I hope that doesn't happen as the consequences would be disasterous. Which is stronger support from me for Trump than I imagined I would give.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 03:01 AM

Please, please, please take Farage away. The UK government will not appoint him ambassador. Surely you can find him work elsewhere?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 03:03 AM

I love jokes, did anybody hear the one about the Democrat president of the US who flew over to the UK and told us If we did not behave ourselves and vote the way he wanted on the EU, he would shuffle us off to the back of the queue on trade deals?

Laugh? I nearly cried.

Jokes wont cut it, the people are waking up, you guys need to grab onto the train before it leaves the station.

Sorry about the analogies..... blame Don   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Stu
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 03:20 AM

'you guys need to grab onto the train before it leaves the station"

You're all right, I think many of us might stay here and get on with the job of trying to address people's concerns properly. The train is full of nazi's, science deniers, liars, hypocrites and racists and I don't fancy going on any sort of a journey with people like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 05:08 AM

I don't fancy going on any sort of a journey with people like that

Fancy or no, Hold on Tight PAL! this is going to be a bumpy ride

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 05:29 AM

Anyone heard of the book by Philip K Dick, that has now been turned into a TV series, "The man in the high castle"? It tells of a dystopian USA where the Nazis had won the war.

Could it be prophetic by any chance?

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 08:24 AM

Good one, Stu. That train definitely ain't bound for glory.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 10:20 AM

the people are waking up

They sure are, Ake!   HEIL TRUMP!! HEIL TRUMP!! I've seen 'em. You must be proud. Have you sent your contribution & congratulations to David Duke yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 10:49 AM

Grab hold of that train, plain or ship.
Once aboard you will hear "Papers NOW.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 12:42 PM

you're all wrong except Mr Red(as usual).

You're going to have to help steer this train, because it's the only train for years and it's steaming into unmapped territory.

The people who used to run our two countries left on the last train, they are safely holed up in China and India.....stop all the nonsense about Fascism and realise "liberal" democracy was a sham, nobody is going to guarantee your "rights" anytime soon......get to work!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 12:56 PM

Ake, get a grip. We all know you haven't the vaguest understanding of the U.S. political scene.

Re-read 21 Nov 16 - 06:48 PM & 23 Nov 16 - 03:20 AM and at the very least try to pretend you can recognize reality when it bites you on the arse.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 12:57 PM

"unmapped territory."
Hardly unmaped
TRUMP'S RAILWAY TIMETABLE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 01:21 PM

Mr Red is indeed right. I agree, it is going to be a bumpy ride so I guess I must be right too. As is anyone else who has indicted that the next few years is going to be rough.

I am however extremely confused by the fact that someone who labels themselves a socialist and is a self professed ex member of the communist party can cheer and gloat that known the right wing, bordering on if not actualy fascist, potential dictators are gaining hold across the world. What we need now is not more right wing and neoliberal ideals but care and compassion from politicians, businessmen and ordinary people who should know better.

The world is becoming smaller by the minute. The resources need to be shared equally amongst all, regardless of national boundaries, to prevent wars for those ever dwindling resources and ever growing needs. Anything else can and will lead to global catastrophes brought on by nothing but crass stupidity by the leaders and lack of care by the people who are able to do something about it.

In my opinion.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 02:31 PM

Continuing with this sappy metaphor, decent people need to work at derailing this demented train in any way they see fit.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 08:43 PM

At least when it comes to the French election, the fascist only becomes President if she gets more votes than whoever is up against her in the final round.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 04:23 AM

This is one of the most bizarre arguments I have ever witnessed.
I might have missed something, but nowhere can I find one of Trump's supporters here prepared to put up an argument for what he stands for - nowhere.
The most virulent, racist, mycologist, hate-filled candidate ever to be elected to the White House and nobody here prepared to tall us why his policies have made him electable.
He's hardly a charismatic figure - he comes over as a crude, loudmouthed, blustering bully, he has no debating skills to speak of, he has no political experience, he is the first President elected to office whose first act after election was to be forced into settling a law-suit he had previously refused to do, where his firm ripped of students.....
Somebody like this would have been refused a job of emptying the dustbins of any self-respecting political offices.
Is it really the power that money brings that gives us our world leaders nowadays?
C'mon Ake - let's hear it for Don the Man - oyu have a comprehnsive list of what he stands for!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 07:33 AM

There really is no defense for supporting a vulgarian like Trump. That's probably why the polls had it so wrong. I've a feeling a lot of people were just too embarrassed to admit they were going to vote for him. As for the argument that he's going to reform a corrupt political system, remember this is the guy who bragged about his ability to corrupt public officials throughout his business life and through perverse logic argued that this qualified him to fix the system. Look for excessive corruption in his administration. A leopard don't change it's spots, especially at age 70.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 08:24 AM

Lovely Freudian slip in my last posting, must have been a spellcheck gone astray.
Far to apt to correct though.
mycologist,
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Stu
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 08:53 AM

"stop all the nonsense about Fascism"

Nope. Been down that road before and we know where it ends.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 09:10 AM

Very apt, Jim. As they say, if you treat people like mushrooms that means you keep them in the dark and cover them with manure.
............
"Most of the rest of the world finds itself in the curious position of hoping the next President of the United States will be a liar and a hypocrite." (From an editorial in The Tablet.)

Which means that we can maybe be a little bit encouraged by the indications that this is the case, with news of his backing off on his promise to try to jail Hillary Clinton, and even maybe on a few of his other firm promises, like instantly abolishing Obamacare and totally rejecting any notion of worrying about the environment, and denouncing the outright fascism and racism of the "alt-right".

Though since he is such a liar, there's no reason to think that saying stuff like that means anything either.

If he does back off on too many of his campaign pledges I don't imagine that will go down with the people who hysterically rallied to him. But why should he care about what they think? "So long, suckers".   They should have realised that's the way he has always operated in business. Never even made a secret of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Stu
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 09:49 AM

To be fair to Trump, he's making sure he'll be making a few bucks out of the whole business; apparently he was talking to the Argentine PM as PresElect and at the end tried to get him to sort our building permissions for some of his developments. Corruption before he's even in office; impressive.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 10:02 AM

"stop all the nonsense about Fascism"
Wot Stu just said
WHERE it ENDS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 10:07 AM

And the Republicrap War On Public Education intensifies:

Betsy DeVos, Trump's Education Pick, Has Steered Money From Public Schools
By KATE ZERNIKENOV. 23, 2016

It is hard to find anyone more passionate about the idea of steering public dollars away from traditional public schools than Betsy DeVos, Donald J. Trump's pick as the cabinet secretary overseeing the nation's education system.

Ms. DeVos's efforts to expand educational opportunity in her home state of Michigan and across the country have focused little on existing public schools, and almost entirely on establishing newer, more entrepreneurial models to compete with traditional schools for students and money.

Even some groups that share her support for charter schools worried that picking someone so closely identified as a champion of vouchers signaled that the Trump administration would try to starve public schools.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/23/us/politics/betsy-devos-trumps-education-pick-has-steered-money-from-public-schools.html

And multi-millionaire "The End Times Are Upon Us" Dr. Batshit Crazy at HUD - that should be really "amusing"...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 11:59 AM

In fact fascism essentially has always involved a distorted parody of socialism - Mussolini was of course a prominent and active socialist before the Great War, and the very term "National Socialist" reflects that aspect. Peronism in Argentina was a variant of fascism that actually retained some aspects of genuine socialism. It's a mistake to see fascism as essentially far-right. Its primary characteristic is that it's authoritarian, most especially in relation to any popular movement it does not control.

Trumpism is very much in the tradition of fascism in many ways, most especially in drawing on the discontent of ordinary people who have lost out in recent years.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 04:19 PM

Forgive the prejudiced prim
to the obsequious dim.
They know not what they do
be they many or the privileged few.

In Physics or Politics
some think each thing is discrete
The secret is its one
so we repeat before we've begun.

When the rich enrich themselves
there is hope they'll give you some
but there are no parallels in wealth
Cash give aways will never come.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 04:24 PM

Cash give aways are for those with a minimum of $50 million in capital.*

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 04:56 PM

I see no parallels between the Fascism of the 1920's and 30's and the changes we see taking place today. The rise of Fascism in Europe stemmed from German defeat in WW1 and as an alternative to Communism.
In fact, the communists were the first group to be targeted and liquidated by the Fascists.
I had an old friend who fought Mosley's storm troopers through the East End of London in the 1920's

Todays changes have nothing to do with Fascism which has been completely discredited, but everything to do with the gulf between the ordinary people and the "liberal" establishment elite which used to rule them. They have been cynically sidelined by EU policies like "Free Movement of Labour" and the economics of Globalisation.

Additionally they see their traditional values being undermined by the same "liberal" elite, who appear to sneer and look down on them as Racists, Fascists and homophobes, simply for wishing to retain what they see as a sustainable and normal society.

I think you probably have something to "fear" but it is not Fascism, rather, a loss of power and a challenge to "liberal" conventional wisdom.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 05:06 PM

Maybe this is we we never seem to learn from history? :-(

Perhaps if we used a common language where words like fascist, liberal and fear meant the same to everyone it may help?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 05:44 PM

I see no parallels between the Fascism of the 1920's and 30's and the changes we see taking place today.

You've put your finger precisely on one of your many blind spots, Ake.

the gulf between the ordinary people and the "liberal" establishment elite which used to rule them.

The "liberal elite" like Ronald Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, Mad-Dog Wolfowitz, Newt Gingrich and all the rest of that lot, you mean? The Republicrap lot that pushed them into the toilet they're in? So they vote for that same lot on steroids?

Additionally they see their traditional values being undermined by the same "liberal" elite, who appear to sneer and look down on them as Racists, Fascists and homophobes,

Jaysus - yeah, traditional values like bigotry, racism, homophobia, fundagelical "Christianity"[sic], separate and unequal, white supremacy AND fascism (you forgetting "Heil Trump! and the Nazi salutes and all the rest?

Give the BS a rest, for once.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 05:50 PM

McGrath refers to Trump as a "vulgar oaf," and Gillymor says: There really is no defense for supporting a vulgarian like Trump

Yeah, I think we elected ourselves a National Buffoon.

Maybe it will hurt less if we entertain ourselves by keeping tally of the many ways he will embarrass us over the next four years.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 06:07 PM

Ake, here's another of your "traditional values": Child Labor.
++

A think tank funded by Donald Trump's Secretary of Education pick recently advocated for putting kids back in the workforce.

The Acton Institute, a conservative nonprofit that is said to have received thousands of dollars in donations from Betsy DeVos and her family, posted an essay to its blog this month that called child labor "a gift our kids can handle."

DeVos was a member of Acton's Board of Directors for 10 years and while it's unclear how much influence she currently has on the organization, its homepage now prominently features a message congratulating DeVos on her nomination.

"Let us not just teach our children to play hard and study well, shuffling them through a long line of hobbies and electives and educational activities," said the post's author, Joseph Sunde. "A long day's work and a load of sweat have plenty to teach as well."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/child-labour-laws-need-loosening-says-group-funded-by-trumps-education-secretary-1593220

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 06:08 PM

Joe, if he were only a buffoon, that would be bad enough. He - and his growing gang of undesirables - are MUCH more dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 06:59 PM

Is being a "vulgarian" the worst crime that you can find for your newly elected President?   Seems to me that a whole swathe of US presidents have been censured for much worse misdemeanours and some deified, despite their treatment of vulnerable women being disgraceful in the extreme.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 07:45 PM

"Todays changes have nothing to do with Fascism "
They have everything today with Fascism - scapegoating and targeting races and minorities (then the Jews, now Muslims), removing peoples rights and replacing them with repressive laws (Trades Unionists were among those exterminated and homosexuals (your ow favourite whipping boy, girl or undecided) were incarcerated in concentration camps.
The fascism that tortured, raped and massacred many thousands of young people (described by Thatcher as her kind of democracy) was no different that the round-ups carried out by the Nazis, which filled up their camps.
"Is being a "vulgarian" the worst crime that you can find for your newly elected President? "
For crying out loud Ake - stop appeasing Trump's fascism by deliberately misinterpreting what people are saying about him - that is what crude propagandists do.
Among the worst things you can say about Trump is that his an open racist and a declared misogynist who has been recorded advocating sexually attacking women.
That is just a part of what emerged during the election.
You and your buddies are staunchly ignoring the list you have been given.
23 Nov 16 - 12:57 PM
IS THIS ACCURATE OR IS IT A BUNCH OF LIES - YES OR NO?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 08:18 PM

Of course the Communists and other Socialists were the first target for the Nazis, aken.
For one thing they represented a direct challenge to their appropriation of the word socialist. And a popular movement representing and organising workers which was independent of the "National Socialist and Workers Party", and opposed to them, was a genuine threat.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Nov 16 - 09:05 PM

Ake asks: Is being a "vulgarian" the worst crime that you can find for your newly elected President?

No, Ake...but it is the only aspect of that detestable worm, that we might be able to laugh about.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 02:53 AM

Joe, I'm surprised at your post, it seems to disregard the views of at least half of the US electorate , many of them "people of faith"?

The "democratic system" seems only acceptable if it turns up the result expected by one partisan side.....Surely as a person of faith, you should take on board the social aspects of Mr Trump's election and the corruption which was being practised by the Democrats during the Primaries to ensure the defeat of Mr Sanders.

Using words like "worm" to describe someone who has won through the whole democratic process against all odds almost puts you in the "usual suspects" category.