BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jan 17 - 07:16 AM

Wednesday BBC Four 8pm (GMT)
"10 Things You Didn't Know About Earthquakes"
BBC page on upcoming prog then on iPlayer.

Should be interesting in this context.

And thankyou Iains. I am more scared by Global Warming than I ever was. 15cm seasonal sea level rise in Alsaka correlates with biannual predictable seasonal eruptions of one noted volcano. Tides are much higher than that, even though most sea level talk was of a much slower rate of change.
I still adhere to the analogy of friction and particularly stiction cf tidal friction. clue's in the name.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Iains
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 11:29 AM

Mr Red
you may find this link interesting. Climate change and potential geological impact.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xndhx7KpSU0

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: leeneia
Date: 23 Nov 16 - 10:11 AM

Here's a link to a New Yorker article on the topic of earthquakes in New Zealand. The tectonics of New Zealand are unusual.

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/new-zealands-tectonic-dragon-awakens

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 09:13 PM

I use a free app called iEarthquake lite which alerts me to such things. You can control how the app informs you of what's going on. There are probably others too.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 09:08 PM

Well it was under the sea a good few miles out. As long as it was the wrong sort of shake to generate a big tsunami, it's all right. It was a 7.3, so quite hefty.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 08:56 PM

The only news coverage I could find on the Fukushima quake was on CNN. After many hours they have no reports of deaths or any pictures of damage. Apparently the quake wasn't much.

Clearly people should be careful of tsunamis, of course.

Since they can't scare anybody with today's quake, they rehash the 2011 quake instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 07:37 PM

I was turning five in Denver CO. We had passed a bill banning chemical nerve gas weapons and disposal was decided to inject it deep in the earth around Colorado Springs. Burning was too toxic. In as little as 6 months later the Metro area began to have small earthquakes and continued for years through the end of the nerve gas disposal project.

Fracking is a means to create the same type of quakes 40 years later. Instead of calling it Fracking quakes, the industry calls it waste water disposal events.

This is one form of Earthquakes we can ascertain the cause and guarantee predictive results.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 07:36 PM

Yeah well hot air rises, and those Scot Nats...

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 06:44 PM

Of course ya can't blame the moon. !-)

I read sometime ago about research that posed the question about global warming affecting earthquakes. Something to do with making the crust less brittle, bit like (analogy warning) toffee. We are only talking about (average) 0.5 degrees, but then on what scale? Certainly Britain is rising in the north and sinking in the south due to rebound, as the ice that melted removed megatons off the higher latitudes and with rock it takes a long time. Rock is bendy on global scales, and more bendy as temperatures rise. Try bending a block of toffee and see the cracks appear, at certain temperatures.
Of course not all scientists agree about earthquakes being more numerous with global warming, but someone has done the stats and comes to that conclusion.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 04:35 PM

There's been a 7.3 shake under the sea off Fukushima at quite a shallow depth. Restless Earth these days, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 04:28 PM

TSUNAMI WARNING FROM NEW FUKASHIMA QUAKE.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 10:22 AM

My niece in Hawkes Bay spent the weekend making up food parcels for the Salvation Army to distribute. She is a food technologist at Watties (now part of Heinz). The food company make ready meals but to make enough in a short time they invited volunteers and split into teams and had competitions to see who could make more in the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 10:22 PM

Dear Fossil:

Having visited New Zealand a couple of times (Both Islands) I have been aware of your recent shakes, but your posts have given more life to them in my imagination. I feel great sympathy both for the great people I know Kiwis to be, and also because I've lived in the San Francisco area and now live in Anchorage. We're all on the Pacific Rim and know that it's a matter of when, not if.

I hope the U.S. is doing its bit to help out your people and country.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 06:00 PM

Jack, Campi Flegrei is a caldera centred on the town Pozzuoli, containing about 24 craters which are mostly underwater in the Gulf of Pozzuoli. It's only about nine miles across, so most of the Bay of Naples, including Naples, Vesuvius and Pompei, is outside it, lively though that area is.

The Bay of Naples, from Sorrento right round to Pozzuoli and beyond, containing the gorgeous islands of Ischia and Procida, which belong to the Campi Flegrei, and Capri, which doesn't, is my very favourite piece of Planet Earth. Not least because you can nip round the Sorrentine Peninsula to the Amalfi Coast...

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Gurney
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 04:27 PM

Leeneia, timber-framed houses will also float, providing that they have lightweight cladding and roofs. I've seen newsreel footage of them being carried downstream in the floods, with the occupants waving from holes they've made in the shingles..... Landslides pushed them off the foundations.

Waving for help, not with glee, naturally.
Impressive big houses, too.

They do, however, burn very thoroughly. As the racing fraternity say, it is 'horses for courses.'

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 06:01 AM

Headline says it all:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/86649485/neither-rain-nor-earthquake-will-stop-the-semen-getting-through

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 04:57 AM

Fossil

The hardships and challenges must b getting dire now.
Let me collectively apologize for the usual gang of idiots.

The pictures I've seen of the upheaval there are shocking and never seen before.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: leeneia
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 09:59 PM

I looked it up. The epicenter for the quake that shook our house was about 350 miles away.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: leeneia
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 09:57 PM

Thanks for the link, Jack. There are references in the account to concrete walls. I'm not sure exactly how that home was built, but it sounds like the wrong kind. The best house for an earthquake is a timber-framed, wooden house. Such house wiggle in a quake. Masonry fractures and collapses.

When we experienced a 5.5 quake from many miles away, the light and dark lines in our oak floor were jiggling like anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 08:53 PM

I went down the crater of Mount Eden (Maungawhau) when it was still ok, in the 70s (it's considered sacred now). Back then it was full of tennis-ball-sized lumps of red scoria (now grassed over). Creepy feeling to be at the bottom of a crater which you knew they were taking the temperature of every day, looking up at the rim all round you and imagining if you could run for it if it went off.

As I understand it, the whole Bay of Naples and quite a bit beyond is one huge caldera, generally called the Campi Flegrei after one small bit of it. Lake Taupo in NZ is even bigger. On the road round the lake you can look round and contemplate the fact that not only is the whole lake (still steaming in places, 26,000 years on) part of the caldera, so is everything you can see as far as the horizon, maybe 30 miles away.

Current thinking is that we would get a few centuries warning if something on that scale was going to go off (there are several candidates). Those years would be an interesting bit of human history.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 07:18 PM

"Most of the Auckland volcanoes were one-offs - they popped up like zits and never recurred.

The hot plume seems to be moving north-east - Rangitoto's eruption 500 years ago was the last. The reassuring thing about that is that it puts the likely spot for the next bang just offshore..."

That's how it goes. Vesuvius has been incredibly active for 2000 years, and it's had two big jobs in the 20th century, in 1906 and 1944. The received wisdom is that it should have had one if not two more goes by now. But it's as dead as a doornail at the moment. Went up there in 1968 and it was well smelly. Went up there in 2013 and there was hardly a puff. Etna (up which I went last year) tends to have side craters that go bonkers for a short while then die and get covered in wild flowers. Wouldn't trust any of 'em, however. I've done Teide and Vulcano in my time as well as la Solfatara and Vesuvio. Jaysus, I love being terrified.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 05:58 PM

Just noticed this remarkable coincidence: in this article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/nz-earthquake/86599439/the-miraculous-rescue-of-100yearold-margaret-edgar

it mentions that the house that collapsed causing the only direct fatality of the quake was built by the Bullen family in 1875.

I knew the name Bullen from often seeing one of the standard textbooks on seismology by one of most prominent scientists NZ has produced:

http://www.asap.unimelb.edu.au/bsparcs/aasmemoirs/bullen.htm

I've never owned a copy but maybe I should,
it"s a bargain.

Keith Bullen was born in Auckland in 1906 - it's not a common name. Was he from the same family?

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 05:38 PM

Most of the Auckland volcanoes were one-offs - they popped up like zits and never recurred.

The hot plume seems to be moving north-east - Rangitoto's eruption 500 years ago was the last. The reassuring thing about that is that it puts the likely spot for the next bang just offshore from the poshest houses in town (the big ones on the beach on the North Shore). It's hard to feel heartbroken about the prospect of people getting their swimming pools filled with ash.

I lived somewhere near where Gurney appears to be for a bit - Akiraho Street in Mount Eden. Socially it hasn't changed a whole lot in 40 years, and the house I lived in looks exactly like it did when I left in 1976, not one extra fencepost or flowerpot (or did when I visited 4 years ago). Weird little timewarp.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Gurney
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 04:00 PM

Leenia, I've lived in Auckland for 43 years, only felt one earthquake, a single thump that did no damage. Auckland is, however, a volcanic field. It is ALL volcanos, the whole area. I live 500yds from a small one, and like all of them, it is dormant, not extict. The side that faces away from us is cut away vertically, -I do mean cut, the scoria was used for roadbuilding- and I would expect the folks who live on that side to benefit from any eruption first. There is no way out of here that doesn't pass a volcano. Even if you go by sea.
Makes you think. But I still would rather live here than anywhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: leeneia
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 09:53 AM

I'll put Auckland on my list of places not to move to, along with Naples, Seattle, Phoenix, San Francisco and Houston. And New Orleans.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 08:34 PM

Thanks for your updates, Gurney and Fossil: it all sounds pretty terrible.
As for some other posters here, well words fail me!

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Gurney
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 03:34 PM

In NZ we were fortunate that there was a naval review due during the quake, and as Fossil says, warships from NZ, USA, Singapore, Canada, Australia (these I'm sure of, there were probably others) immediately went to the Kaikoura Coast and used their choppers to ferry tourists on board and deliver them to Christchurch. The weather closed in before locals could be safely moved. It has improved again now. Roads are being patched up where possible to get relief into more isolated settlements, but it will be a long time before they get back to anything near normal. Rail is being surveyed, but of course, rail is even more critical of a perfect arrangement than road.
Graphic TV of shellfish dying as they dry out due to the uplifted seabed. These particular large clams (Paua) have a home base, and are not happy anywhere else, so moving them en masse is not very practical. Plus, the people who could do it are busy. Talk of a fishing moratorium meeting with dismay in some circles, but seafood and tourism is the big moneymaker there, and there will be a long recovery period.
The capital Wellington suffered even more damage than was at first thought. Ongoing inspections.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 11:01 AM

The other thing that goes off every few centuries is volcanoes in Auckland - the whole isthmus the city sits on was formed from them. There is very little warning with these - no magma chamber, a thin stream of lava shoots straight up from deep down and BANG. They're never very big, but a hill of red-hot rock a few hundred feet high suddenly appearing in the middle of the country's biggest city wouldn't do it a lot of good.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: leeneia
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 10:08 AM

Thanks for your information, Fossil and Mr. Red.

Here's a link to a page which describes the faults in New Zealand. It isn't a simple matter of subduction of ocean floor beneath a continent.   

https://www.gns.cri.nz/Home/Learning/Science-Topics/Earthquakes/Earthquakes-at-a-Plate-Boundary/Plate-Collision-in-NZ

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 04:54 AM

Just had an e-mail from bro-in-law. It looks pretty serious, even if there were few deaths. Canada & OZ have sent warships to help ferry essentials to Kaikoura. He lives near Wellington & that has significant problems, and he is in Auckland with a daughter. The problems are logistical, but that doesn't make them easier.

When I lived there, the thinking was that ships would be the prime mode of getting places after such events. It does highlight how inter-dependent we all are.

In the UK we import a high percentage of our food.

When I asked bro-in-law about earthquakes around Wellington he mentioned the "big one" comes every 500 years ish, "oh!" says I, "when was the last one?" - he said without a flicker of trepidation, "1000 years ago". Not surprisingly they have whole gov depts (plural) dedicated to studying, monitoring, reporting, and preparing.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 01:07 PM

Bill if DE Palma falls into the sea the wave might only go as far as Camp David.

It would be a wild ride, stuck in traffic.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 08:51 AM

Mr. Red is extremely clever and honest. There is no such thing as 'a psychic feeling'. If you can note frequent super lucky moments or notice you have an edge in split second decisions you may have some pre cog talents. Time is not only flexible, so is human perception.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 07:37 AM

Blimey, I didn't think that homosexual activity was THAT vigorous! 😳

"Mutual masturbation muppets" implies some sort of orgiastic love-fest. Slightly wide of the mark , I'd say... 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 05:41 AM

All the very best wishes for staying safe to our friends in New Zealand.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 03:07 AM

I started this thread with the message of probability. The NZ quake just highlighted the randomness of actual events.

But no-one expected the Spanish Inquisition!

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Fossil
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 12:31 AM

We here in NZ are collectively thanking (insert deity or abstract of choice) that the earthquake happened just after midnight on a Sunday night.

Had it happened twelve or so hours later, the death toll would have been in the thousands. So just for the Mudcat mutual masturbation muppets who like to slag each other off rather than engage with real-world problems, here are a few things to think about.

The main highway up and down the South Island is smashed beyond repair and may never re-open. All the connecting roads are closed too. For the UK, imagine if Al Quaeda had bombed the M1 in fifty different places, and all the other north-south roads were closed as well.

Same with the main railway line. That may never get rebuilt.

This means currently that there is no land communication up and down the entire South Island and even when some of the roads are re-opened, cities such as Christchurch, Dunedin and Otago are going to be in difficulties for a long time.

The coastline for hundreds of kilometres along the east coast has been uplifted by up to 2 metres. Just gives you an idea of the forces that were at work on Sunday.

There have now been more than 800 aftershocks, some of which would qualify as pretty solid earthquakes in their own right. And each time you sit and feel the house moving from side to side and wonder whether or not to take cover. There is a distinct toll on the nerves.

There are people out in the rural backblocks who have had no availability of food, fresh water (other than rain) for two days now and probably won't even get checked on for weeks.

Even in my relatively civilised bit of NZ, I haven't been able to get into town due to landslips causing road closures. Possibly tomorrow, is the message.

Whether it was the moon, the seismic ship or homosexual activity (as suggested by an Auckland pastor) wot caused the earthquakes, Sundays earthquake was a big, seriously frightening, tragic and ultimately very expensive natural disaster and possibly deserves a bit more respect than it seems to be getting round here.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Iains
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 12:44 PM

Steve Shaw
Were tidal events not mentioned as a potential trigger?
and wot creates the tides?

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 12:35 PM

Well I've just heard on the radio that air pollutants such as diesel particulates "shorten the lives of 40,000 Brits per annum." I must say, I'm in awe of the people who can somehow glean that kind of statistic. I was just thinking to myself of all those emergency ambulances, belting around and belching out all those diesel particulates, as they rush critically-ill patients to hospital in order to, er, lengthen their lives....

My old Ford Focus has a diesel particulate filter. Do I pass the test?

And I still think it would be unscientific to dismiss out of hand the possibility that the moon's pull might just trigger/cause/instigate/provoke/initiate/set off an earthquake or two here and there. The straw wot broke the camel's back, sort of thing...

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 12:05 PM

"(caused? Discuss...)" I could go on for an hour about the many concepts/definitions of 'causality', but if you want a general intro., this will do.

Obviously, it is impossible to name just one for an event like an earthquake, since the *remote cause(s)* enter the calculation.

Very few places are totally safe. I live near Washington D.C., and have cracks in my ceiling from a medium sized quake in August, 2011. Very rare around here.

What I worry about are things like La Palma in the Canary Islands.... and yes, Yellowstone and San Andreas and Cascadia, just because I will be affected even if they don't get me, personally. I have all I can do just coping with recent political events that I tried to affect.

TV programs warn me about meteors, comets, asteroids, Kudzu, killer bees, fracking, old nuclear reactors, global warming, drug side effects..... and supernovas in some nearby galaxy. Not much I can do about any of those. The universe doesn't care, and I've made it this far for 77+ years.
I always hope for good luck for everyone ... but... *shrug*

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Iains
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 11:59 AM

I have no desire to talk past anyone. I would prefer to carry them with me.
It may not be understood by everyone that the earth is subjected to stress in the upper mantle/lithosphere. This is caused in the main by plate movements. This stress field is ongoing and in a sort of dynamic equilibrium. When the stress is locally released, generally along an existing fault plane, the result is an earthquake. Concurrent with the release of energy/stress the local stress pattern will be modified and this may lead to further quakes as dynamic equilibrium is re established.
The only point I wish to make is that an earthquake is the result of the local stress exceeding the capacity of the rocks to accommodate it.
The failure creates a rupture, a release of energy as a series of waves, some of which cause the damage.
So in essence the ground is already in a state of stress, it is a trigger that causes localised release of pressure.i.e. an earthquake.

Further information concerning stress in in the attached link:

http://dc-app3-14.gfz-potsdam.de/pub/introduction/introduction_frame.html

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Iains
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 11:18 AM

What is it about the cause of an event and the trigger of an event defies people's comprehension. You can sit in a car but it will not move until you start it.
You can pull an elastic band until it snaps, you can put a match to it, you can cut it with a knife.
The rubber band is in a stressed state for whatever reason and then the stress is released by the triggers mentioned.
What is so difficult to understand about these two discrete concepts?

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Iains
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 11:10 AM

I made another mistake too stasi should obviously be quasi.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 11:07 AM

Well his reading and cognitive skills may be raising doubts in your mind, but it's a good bet that he can spell "animals" better than you.

It's a perfectly reasonable hypothesis that some earthquakes may be triggered (caused? Discuss...) by gravitational effects. It's also perfectly reasonable to argue as to whether they may or may not be a significant factor. The moon's gravitational pull is the main cause of tides, the pulling around of water. The upper mantle is not a rigid solid and it's not beyond the bounds that it could also be affected by gravity. I have a feeling that, in wanting to display your undoubted knowledge of plate tectonics, you've decided to talk past Mr Red here.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: leeneia
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 10:57 AM

Mr. Red, I understand your concern for people in the neighborhood of the San Andreas fault system, including the Hayward fault. But I think you are being exposed to alarmist literature.

Who told you that minor, local quakes in Oklahoma (caused by brine injection, not fracking) would somehow activate the deep, ancient New Madrid rift, which is hundreds of miles away?

I suggest you go to the public library and read a number of geology books. They are fascinating. Then change New Scientist for Science News.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Iains
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 09:25 AM

For Mr Red
Earthquakes are caused by stress release in rocks strained beyond their failure envelope. The causes of stress are mainly attributed to the dynamics of plate tectonics over periods of time. What actually triggers the failure is a matter of both study and debate, Tidal events, storm events, flooding, water injection etc. etc can all give a shock event to bring about failure. These events however only contribute to a premature failure that would eventually occur anyway.
This is because regional stress is in a stasi equilibrium and when failure occurs the entire spectrum of stress may be modified over a long/short timescale and area and cause additional failures for this reason.
This is the likely explanation of aftershocks.
Quantification of degree is possible(post event) but prediction is not yet feasible. There is a school that feels annimals can predict earthquakes and modify their behaviour. This does not have general acceptance, although annimals senses have mostly a greater range than humans so may be able to sense factors we are unaware of.

It is a fascinating field to study and prediction would be a tool all would wish for in order to reduce fatalities.



http://all-geo.org/highlyallochthonous/2011/05/the-many-faces-of-earthquake-triggering/

http://petrowiki.org/Stress_strain_relationships_in_rocks

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Iains
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 08:09 AM

Mr Red
Is it your reading skills or cognitive skills in need of attention?

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 08:03 AM

Tidal effects do not cause earthquakes, there's someone who doesn't read the New Scientist. Or posts properly. How many moons in our solar system are hotter than they should be, because of tidal friction? The effect is on rock, as well as water, it is just relative.

The moon doesn't cause earthquakes, per se. Any more than vibration causes friction. And the analogy holds well because vibration reduces friction thus, and is well used in industry, and lubrication does too.

How many fault lines are there with a stream or river flowing along them? They occur in NZ and it is well recognised there is a link. Indeed (see New Scientist again) one proposal is to inject water into faults in California to generate many small quakes, instead of armageddon. And it wasn't Trump who thought up that one!

Now the moon causes tidal friction, and is a near sinusoidal vibration therefore on the global spacial/time scale fully analogous. The problem is one of prediction - not understanding causality.

Then there are moonquakes. See New Scientist again for tidal friction/cause on that one too.

Quakes are random events on the timescale of your life, and many better minds than mine have little pre-cognition when it comes to date, but they know probability a bit better.

Tidal effects do cause quakes, it is just a matter of which is the most important influence - i.e. the one inside this planet, c.f. extra-terrestrial.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 07:28 AM

Well, Pete, yer man was asking a mixture of God-squadders and atheists to pray. It's like asking a mixture of carnivores and veggies to enjoy these pork chops. And if you believe, as your post implies, that God could get you out of trouble if it pleases him, the obvious conclusion is that ''twas he who got you into trouble in the first place if it was something like an earthquake that you can't have caused yourself. Yeah?

Incidentally, when I have I ever denied God's existence? I'm just like you - I don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Iains
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 07:08 AM

Tidal effects do not cause earthquakes, they are caused by stress release along fault lines, but they may provide a trigger mechanism.

http://www.nature.com/news/moon-s-pull-can-trigger-big-earthquakes-1.20551


http://www.nytimes.com/cwire/2009/11/20/20climatewire-how-storms-can-trigger-earthquakes-28304.html

Subject: RE: BS: Just when it couldn't get any worse-Earthquake
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 06:50 AM

How did you feel when you where creating this thread?

altruistic, but not psychic. With a soupçon of humour directed at Trumpy.

Intrigued the NZ one was at the Supermoon, only to highlight the (debated) connection between earthquakes and tidal friction. It would be interesting to know if moonquakes were more frequent as well.

the thread was started in reference to San Fransisco, I didn't think of the supermoon nor other earthquake zones.