BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !

Subject: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 05:09 AM

Beware USA. Theresa May does not present as a bully. Whereas Trumpy....

Just heard a story on BBC R4:
An aide had remarked to our new Prime Ministress "I can't believe how much your trousers cost"
the reply came swift "Your job". And she is now one duly sacked aide.

The price of the PM's trousers was the subject of speculation recently.

Hold on tight folks, Brexit is going to be one hell of a roller coaster!

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 06:04 AM

Like the old story of Thatcher dining out with her Cabinet
She orders steak and when asked, "and the vegetables?" by the waiter taking the order, she replies, "They'll have the same"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 06:28 AM

Spitting Image sketch Jim.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 06:41 AM

That's bloody funny is that one, Jim. Never heard it before! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: G-Force
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 09:30 AM

Actually a very old joke. We told it at school in the early 60's, long before Thatcher, in a sick and non-PC form which I wouldn't repeat now.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 09:35 AM

They were showing the top ten banned-by-the-BBC records on TV last night and the tenth one was 'Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead'. I could see the point at the lack of 'grief' by large sections of the population at Mrs Thatcher's demise, but a person had died and presumably her family was very sad, so in my view it was right not to play the record, in spite of it heading up the charts.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 10:04 AM

" but a person had died and presumably her family was very sad,"
Wonder if they were as sad as all those miners whose livelihoods she destroyed (not to mention the many thousands of people she laeft unemployed and left homeless when she dismantled British Industry.
This piece of work was a sl=elf declared fascist when she described the mass-murder of Chilean youth as her kind of democracy.
She needs to be remembered for what she was - I bet Trump reveres her memory.
Don't care how old the joke is - it is very funny
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Stu
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 10:36 AM

May's trousers cost £995. Why people think a tory would be insensitive and bullying is beyond me.


""but a person had died and presumably her family was very sad"

What sauce for the goose; although I didn't buy it because I don't like celebrating the death of a person. I can fully understand why others did. I'm sure the likes of Carol and Mark Thatcher didn't suddenly start giving a shit about what us proles think just because she'd popped them.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 11:33 AM

"I'm sure the likes of Carol and Mark Thatcher didn't suddenly start giving a shit"
Her going seems to have left MARK THATCHER'S arse well covered.
I don't usually celebrate the demise of an individual, but I'm willing to stretch a point this time
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 12:14 PM

Why people think a tory would be insensitive and bullying is beyond me.

excuse me, I was highlighting the insensitivity of one Prime Ministress to the point of sacking one of her chosen for honest enquiry.
Extrapolating that to a cohort of politicians is not in the OP. But Trumpy has far more form so it is up to the reader to decide on a case by case basis. How many cases can you spot?

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Iains
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 01:07 PM

Jim,employment in the coal industry declined from 1 million in 1908 to 6,000 today. To blame Thatcher for the demise of uk coal mining is a bit of a gross simplification. Cheaper sources of energy were coming to the fore, as were cheaper imports. Coal mining is also the most dangerous industry, apart from the long term health risks such as silicosis. Some would also argue the unions were attempting to usurp the role of government and no government will tolerate that. To say Thatcher could have done more to help mining communities is a fair criticism but to say she killed the mining industry is simply not true..

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 01:26 PM

"To blame Thatcher for the demise of uk coal mining is a bit of a gross simplification."
Not really Iains
There's enough documented evidence to believe that The Miners Strike was deliberately engineered by her and McGregor to break the Unions - read 'The Enemy Within (The secret war against the Miners) or The Miners' Strike by Geoffrey Goodman.
Miners strike aside, the destruction of British industry by the Thatcher regime has left Britain totally dependent on foreign goods and jobs
I was there and saw things happening on a daily basis and, being from the North of England, know exactly the effects and who was efected
My family is still feeling the results of those balmy days!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 03:18 PM

To quote my old boss's boss:

"Power corrupts, but it absolutely rocks."

Doonesbury Strip from the 70s, about Mao-tse Tung (MauzAyDong?)

"Speaking of vegetables, how is the chairman?"

"There is chaos in heaven, and his pulse is normal."

That second line became a byword for questioning normalcy for a few years.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 04:33 PM

I would say that to rise high in politics one is probably already slightly corrupt. Once in power, it must be practically impossible to resist the goodies one has access to.
African republics are a good example. Laurent Gbagbo of Cote d'Ivoire and at the moment Yahyah Jammeh of Gambia have milked their countries for all they're worth while in office and in both cases refused to leave when voted out. Their families have been housed in flagrant luxury abroad in Europe. Corrupt hardly begins to describe it. I don't believe there's a single African leader who is pure as the driven snow.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 04:35 PM

Ha! That should say Yahya Jammeh!

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 06:04 PM

I agree with your last post Iains, but trying to explain politics on this forum is bashing your head against a brick wall.

This place is all about social non issues. I never voted for Mrs Thatcher but she was a brilliant PM for this capitalist system, that is what these people don't understand, they vote consistently for "reformist capitalism" yet don't seem to grasp the fact that it is a profit based system which to survive demands ruthless efficiency, which in Mrs Thacher's case involved the winding up of most of the UK's manufacturing and heavy industry.

The only way to avoid it would have been to adopt a socialist system with Tax rises and lower wages for everyone especially the middle class.....I suppose all the ex-teachers, medical consultants and college graduates on here would be rushing to vote for that....bloody hypocrites.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 06:53 PM

You are absolutely in denial, Iains. Thatcher hated the unions and set out to bust the industries in which they were strong. As plain as the nose on your face. Once that was done and dusted she set out to deregulate the City and the banks in order to give them total free rein. Compliant capitalists were far better for Tory Britain than manufacturing industries with those pesky union leaders. She was the biggest vandal ever to be let loose on this country, even worse than Beeching, rot him. What a shame that New Labour rode the same wave. For ten years with them it was meretriciously hunkydory (though don't ask the poor, who saw the wealth gap ever widening). Then look what happened. Rampant, unregulated Toryism wrecked the planet. Thanks for that legacy, Maggie. I for one was happy to see you go to join the choir invisible. I didn't dance in the street but I definitely raised a glass.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Stanron
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 08:06 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: Thatcher hated the unions

A convenient rallying call but not a truth. The Minor's Union declared the intent of bringing down the Government. As a response to that the Government had a duty to it's electorate to defeat the Minor's Union. Any other response would have been a dereliction of duty. It's true that Thatcher had played the long game. She had seen the damage that the Unions had done to Ted Heath's government and postponed the conflict until she had stockpiled sufficient coal reserves. The minors could have stepped back from the brink but they did not. Had the Minors won the UK would have ceased to be a democracy. Would you prefer that?

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 08:13 PM

Had the Minors[sic] won the UK would have ceased to be a democracy.

Say what? What about the Majors?

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 08:20 PM

To me politics is not necessarily corrupt but for someone such as Thatcher to obtain political control over you lot took some sort of skill, so politics I think has been accurately described as "The art of the possible."

One of my favorite reads is the Lives of Plutarch, which contains stories/bios fully as wild as anything we have seen in our lifetimes.

This stuff isn't all happening for the first time, just the first time with nukes.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 08:25 PM

I would say that Barack Obama did an admirable job in a position of power, given the circumstances - and I do not believe he was corrupted in the process.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 08:48 PM

I agree, Joe, though his "power" seemed forever compromised. There's a nice piece on Obama's legacy in the Saturday Guardian. I don't understand how to make links to such things but a good google should get you there.

Stanron, that is just utter revisionism. Simplistic in the extreme. There is no way that a miners' victory would have ended democracy and you know it. That's almost as bad as Mother Teresa saying that abortion was the biggest threat to world peace. On top of that, I'd suggest that Thatcher was more than happy to see Heath wallow in his inept handling of the miners. Can't argue that the miners adopted brilliant tactics, but the very fact we can talk about tactics in an industrial dispute into which the government waded demonstrates a failure of the government to engage with its workers in a constructive dialogue. Which is their job. And if you don't think that Maggie hated trade unions, try explaining away the mass of anti-trade union legislation that she instigated.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 02:33 AM

Both Stanron and Iains have given you a fairly accurate and objective picture of the "Nation v the Miners/Militant Trades Unions". Trades Unions exist to fight the case and look after the rights and working conditions of their members - they are not there to challenge the Government of the Country elected by the people of the country.

Most idiotic thing stated on this thread so far, considering that as Akenaton says we live in a capitalist economy, belongs to Steve Shaw:

"Thatcher hated the unions and set out to bust the industries in which they were strong."

The EU which all the "usual suspects" seem to support had rules related to Government subsidies keeping industries afloat. Perhaps Steve Shaw can detail how profitable the NCB was. Perhaps he can tell us how much the NCB cost the country per day just to keep going and then he can explain what the law of diminishing returns is and how following it results in a situation that is unsustainable and ruinous for all.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Iains
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 03:36 AM

The traditional heavy industries were in decline and had been for a considerable time. Thatcher inherited a problem ignored by at least the four previous PMs of both persuasions. She solved the problem and rationalised the system. So far automation has only wiped out unskilled jobs. Hear the screams when traditional white collar jobs evaporate due to computerisation. Much by rote teaching is better done in front of a computer. Do we really need all those flag waving sandal wearing teaches?
De regulation is another matter entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Iains
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 04:34 AM

The word should of course be teachers above(before the man with the impeccable keyboard skills corrects me-again)

Steve Shaw. The idea that the Prime Minister of a capitalist country would deliberately set about destroying a vibrant part of the economy just to poke a union in the eye is a quaint idea even for you, and patently ridiculous. The industries were dying anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 06:24 AM

"The traditional heavy industries were in decline and had been for a considerable time."
Due largely to lack of investment
Britain had a fine shipping, textile steel and manufacturing industry but in order to maintain them needed good management and investment.
It became more profitable to buy shoddy abroad - that is what happened to British industry (described as "crap" by a contributor to this thread)- not natural selection.
The various governments of both hues supported the dismantling of British industy so, while the world was maintaining and establishing industrial bases, we were giving ours away without a regard for those who it would effect the most the workers in those industries.
The point we have reached is epitomised by our approach to textiles - we fill our shops with cheap goods produced in death traps of factories for pittance level wages - british jobs have disappeared and we are placated by blaming economic migrants who are coming to Britain to escape conditions we have helped to create.
One of the effects of Britain's de-industrialisation policy is the massive and growing gap between the HAVES and HAVE-NOTS in Britain.
The 'disappeared' industries were nort replaced with new ones to and the somewhat limited voice the worker had won for himself over the centuries was silenced, so they had no say in what was happening to their lives.
The benefit system was totally undermined, making it virtually impossible for many breadwinners to support their families an notice of dismissal was replaced with zero contracts
Higher education has been placed out of reach of the average British family by the introduction and gradual increasing of fees
Security of tenure destroyed by Thatcher's 'Right to Buy' con.
The only thing we have left from Labour's 1940s gift is a health service that staggers from crisis to crisis because of underfunding and concentration on bureaucracy rather than health care.
No industrial base - a dependent nation with no secure future.
Britain's highest export, as things stand, if finance - to the tune of 30 odd percent
A Britain to bring children up in!!!
THATCHER'S HATRED OF TRADE UNIONS
"I agree with your last post Iains, but trying to explain politics on this forum is bashing your head against a brick wall."
One more posting by someone whose entire input is in attacking other's conceived politics without offering a shred of argument - how can you when your postings seldom exceed three sentences of text
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Kampervan
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 07:00 AM

Does every politically-based thread on Mudcat have to come down to a discussion(?) about Thatcher?

The opening question is general and one which,by and large, I agree with.

There are exceptions, Barrack Obama is quite possibly one of them, but there are far more examples where it's true. Robert Mugabe, Chairman Mao are two candidates.

How about a discussion as to whether or not this is the case and, possibly, could it ever be different?

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 07:02 AM

Obama was a a one-off. A rarity. But it has to be said, the measure of the man is that the weight of expectation was upon him. He delivered.
History will re-write his stature but it will have a hard time diminishing it.

FWIW I came across an American song called "Pneumoconiosis Blues".

BTW Miners suffer from pneumoconiosis (in America Miner's Lung), pottery workers silicosis (silicon dioxide being the principle irritant there). I have a little experience working in coal mines. The militant nature of the workers did not square logically with consensus politics. Certainly in King Arthurs demesne. If that man hadn't had (not even covert) aspirations in Westminster and Thatcher had not had a clear majority.....................

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 08:26 AM

"Does every politically-based thread on Mudcat have to come down to a discussion(?) about Thatcher? "
Where relevant yes - she was the nearest Britain ever got to a Fascist head of state - that fact alone makes her totally relevant to this topic
Why should she not be part of this discussion?
Discussion

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 08:58 AM

she was the nearest Britain ever got to a Fascist head of state - that fact
That wording makes clear that you do not consider that she actually was a fascist head of state, so why even introduce the term into the conversation?

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 09:23 AM

"The traditional heavy industries were in decline and had been for a considerable time. Thatcher inherited a problem ignored by at least the four previous PMs of both persuasions. She solved the problem and rationalised the system. So far automation has only wiped out unskilled jobs. Hear the screams when traditional white collar jobs evaporate due to computerisation. Much by rote teaching is better done in front of a computer. Do we really need all those flag waving sandal wearing teaches?
De regulation is another matter entirely."

Hmm. What a pity you didn't pay a bit more attention to your sandal-wearing teachers. You might have avoided all those errors of grammar and punctuation, and your assessment of recent history might have turned out to be a little more sound as well.

And I see from Teribus that the only way to assess the success or otherwise of an industry is by measuring how much profit it makes. The greater good of the country can go hang. Still, as long as we don't mind relying on unstable foreign regimes for our energy supplies...

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 09:42 AM

Still, as long as we don't mind relying on unstable foreign regimes for our energy supplies... The alternative used to be allowing the unions to hold us to ransom by withholding fuel supplies.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Kampervan
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 09:47 AM

Jim. Part of the discussion - yes, but these things seem almost always to become virtually entirely given over to discussing Thatcher, and very little of it is new. So we get nowhere

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 09:55 AM

I would say that Barack Obama did an admirable job in a position of power, given the circumstances - and I do not believe he was corrupted in the process.
-Joe-

I agree. And it's because Obama understands the limits of executive power. Even when stonewalled by a recalcitrant Congress, he has not overstepped his authority. Yes, one or two of his executive actions have been shot down by the courts, but that's part of the give and take between the governmental branches. The executive powers enumerated in The Constitution are few. Most have been established by judicial decision or legislative action. (i.e. the ability to wage war: The Constitution specifically grants the authority to declare war to Congress, but Congress has ceded much of that authority to the President. The US has not fought in a "declared" war since WWII.) I don't believe Mr. Obama has taken an executive action which he knew beforehand was beyond the limits of his authority.

I fear that the person slated to replace him has no such understanding. I think he actually believes the US President can do pretty much anything he wants, and I don't see him surrounding himself with advisors who are likely to tell him otherwise. The first time Congress refuses to rubber-stamp a Trump legislative proposal, or the courts declare one of his executive actions unconstitutional, he is going to seek a work-around. He's a person who hates to lose, yet he has sought and accepted a job in which nobody ever has or ever will win 100% of the time. He will seek to win at all costs, legality be damned.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 09:58 AM

"That wording makes clear that you do not consider that she actually was a fascist head of state"
She would have been had she been given the opportunity - but she made her position quite clear whan she described Augusto Pinochet's mass murder as democracy, held a rally in his support and described the British politicians who put him under house arrest while it was decided whether he should stand trial of "running a police state" - "from the mouths of babes and politicians", so to speak.
Thatcher put the welfare of the miners as an excuse for closing the mines as an afterthought - it was never the reason, and even if it was, you don't close down an industry around which many communities have been built for many generations and not replace them
Thatcher's concern for the miners was demonstrated perfectly at Orgreave and was reiterated by the present government's refusal to hold an enquiry, which occurred five years earlier than Hillborough and still has not been fully investigated.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 10:56 AM

I think he actually believes the US President can do pretty much anything he wants

As does his White House Counsel, and his Cabinet of Turds.

Remember the Republicruds' whining about Obama's "unconstitutional excesses of executive power"?

You just couldn't make this bullshit up.

And you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 11:58 AM

"Holding the country to ransom" is Daily Mail parroting and has been for decades. If anyone holds the country to ransom it's big companies who constantly threaten to pull out, forcing us to let them pay less corporation tax, and the mega-rich who have taken everything and who have armies of accountants to make sure they give nothing back. Sort the tax evaders out and the deficit would disappear overnight. But we can't do that, because, why, they're holding us to ransom! But you'd rather think that it was the bloke with poor wages who knackers himself underground every day in filthy, dark and dangerous conditions just to keep your lights on who's holding us to ransom when he fights for better conditions and a wage rise, using the only tool in his armoury, his labour. You have a very peculiar way of looking at things to say the least.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 12:31 PM

"ransom"
By closing down industries wholesale and forcing skilled tradesman and craftsmen to take lower paid, lower skilled jobs or receive no unemployment to feed their families is the most viciously inhuman form of "holding to ransom" there is.
I would strongly recommend a visit to Ken Loach's 'I, Daniel Blake' to see an accurate depiction of what is happening in Britain today.
Holding Britain to ransom - my arse.
If incompetent and avaricious bankers can receive massive government bailouts from the public purse which they use to pay themselves obscene rewards for clearing up the mess they have made of the national economy - why cannot workers demand reasonable wages for the work they do well?
Talk about double-standards.   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Iains
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 02:50 PM

Mr Red.
Thanks for the correction.

http://thorax.bmj.com/content/53/5/398.full

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Iains
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 03:12 PM

Hmmmm mr Shaw we are being sanctimonious today, Is that you in full schoolmaster mode. If so please spare us.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 03:46 PM

I'll spare everyone else except you, in your case until you stop being so pretentious. The only reason you can write anything at all is that you had teachers. It seems that you were a bit too obsessed with their footwear for your own good.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 09:14 PM

My dad always used to refer to the attitude of people who dissed teachers as also-rans and who claimed that you could "get your degree in Common Sense at the University of Life" as the cult of the philistine. Seems that Iains has finally signed up with the great cult leader Teribus.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 02:03 AM

Another leader who wasn't corrupted by power was Mikhail Gorbachev. I'm also impressed by the fact that Gorbachev loves to sing. (click)

And one could certainly argue that Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu never showed any signs of corruption, despite the fact that the African National Congress has had much corruption. And Winnie Mandela proved corrupt, too.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 02:36 AM

Just as well then Shaw that, according to you, the coal mines were closed (Far more were closed under Labour than were closed by the Conservatives) so that the following is now no longer the case:

"the bloke with poor wages who knackers himself underground every day in filthy, dark and dangerous conditions just to keep your lights on"

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Iains
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 03:20 AM

There is another saying Steve. It has a far greater ring of truth. Those that can, DO. Those that can't, Teach.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Iains
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 03:37 AM

Why is it that anyonre taken to task for ridiculous statements counter attacks with personal insults? Is it because they have run out of anything sensible to say?
Hello Steve. Are you listening?
I have introduced a couple of spelling mistakes for you to correct, just to make you feel better. Then you can jump back into that little cocoon that you have convinced yourself is reality.
I actually feel quite sorry for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: BobL
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 04:09 AM

I seem to remember, just before Thatcher's premiership, something called the Winter of Discontent. Didn't the Labour government virtually bankrupt the country trying to keep the old industries afloat? And the unions - the ones that got the publicity at any rate, although we must take empty barrel syndrome into account - weren't much help.

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 04:15 AM

" so that the following is now no longer the case:"
Why on earth not - does it matter which bunch of self-serving politicians destroyed the mining communities and left them without livelihoods?
The mess that these people have left the British workers in is the same, whoever was responsible.
RUINS LEFT by THATCHER
I watched 'Mandela, Walk to Freedom' last night - what a brave, dignified man - I seem to remember Mrs T (Augosto Pinochet's favourite democrat) described him as "a terrorist".
Funny how opinions differ!!!
How I'm happy to remember her
Jim Carrroll

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 04:22 AM

Those of you in the United Kingdom have had your Mrs. T. I predict she won't hold a candle to our Mr. T. He hasn't even taken office yet, and already he's a national embarrassment....

Tweet!!

Maybe Maggie would have been worse if Twitter had been invented by the time she was in office...

Subject: RE: BS: Power corrupts, absolutely !
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 05:04 AM

Those that can, DO. Those that can't, Teach (GBS to Mrs Patrick-Campbell)

Hmmmm ......... & just for the humour:
Those that can't teach, teach teachers.
We elect the rest!