BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.

Subject: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 07:05 AM

I'm not given to conspiracy theories as they're virtually always total bollocks, but...

Following the stories of the developing feud between Trump and the US intelligence agencies and the role of Russia in his election, I get the sense something is not quite right... a feeling (and nothing more) that there is more to this story than meets the eye, and the Brexit vote might be a part of the whole thing.

If Russia wanted to destabilise the west, how better to do it than by causing political and economic chaos with the remaining western superpower and one of the most influential states in Europe? The events of the past year have split, more our less in half, not only the politicians but also the very people of those countries themselves. There is massive uncertainty in all areas of society and we are facing a period of turmoil that might last years, if not decades. For the duration of Trump's residence in the White House and the extended and undoubtedly tortuous negotiation of the UK's exit from the EU there is not a hint of stability on the horizon. The Brexit vote has emboldened the right wing in Europe, with France possibly electing Le Pen this year, further undermining progressive politics and deepening divides on the continent.

But somehow it all seems a little too obvious that the Russians are behind everything, like a crap TV spy thriller plot, and I wonder if a bigger game is in play. The US establishment seems content to let Trump get away with anything; the man is now comparing his own intelligence services to those of "Nazi Germany", no tax returns published, rampant nepotism, giving cabinet posts to various folk ill-suited to government including creationists, climate-change deniers, pro-gun nuts, racists and billionaire businessmen with no interest in public service . He is so patently unsuitable for the job that were he revealed to be a manchurian candidate you'd question the sanity of those who set him up for it.

So what is going on? Why was Comey's intervention before the election so perfectly timed to cause Clinton maximum damage, possibly loosing her the election? Is there a desire to fracture whatever unity exists within the free world by placing someone traditionally seen as leader (though this no longer is the case in my opinion) utterly unsuitable to the task?

There is something very odd about all this...

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 07:18 AM

It's worth adding that there is some debate over the veracity of the Kompromat document, and although it seems parts of it is true, it's possible the more lurid details are not. Of course, Trump is being hoisted by his own petard after spending years peddling lies during the birther campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 07:19 AM

Apply for your foil helmet today.

The establishment are making mischief, the media and "liberal" America are hurting, they have no thought for anything other than the protection of their failed ideology.

There IS "something going on", but not what you think, or possibly hope for.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 07:29 AM

Furthermore, Russia has absolutely no need to destabilise the West, we have managed that very successfully ourselves through the process of globalisation and the idiocies of social "liberalism"

A huge section of Western society feel left behind, unheard and ill treated.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 08:45 AM

"liberal"

Define this term you keep using so we can understand who you are referring to specifically. Why do you use quotation marks?


"There IS "something going on", but not what you think, or possibly hope for."

Probably best you don't assume to know what I think, or what I hope for. You don't know me.


"A huge section of Western society feel left behind, unheard and ill treated."

And the billionaires and nut jobs are on their side, right? How do you think they made their money?

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 09:19 AM

Stu, I have explained my use of quotation marks innumerable times, you have not been paying attention.

Most people with whom I have come into contact and who loudly proclaimed themselves liberal, have turned out to be most illiberal.

These "liberals" are hypocrites and con artists.....They blindly follow the "liberal" media, who brook no other opinions but those which back up their hypocritical stance.
A short time ago, I argued against homosexual "marriage" and unregulated immigration, I was immediately jumped upon by a pack of "liberals" who stopped at absolutely nothing to intimidate, insult and stalk me.....not only on the forum but a few of them ended up in my village spreading shit, all because they were not liberal enough to tolerate alternative views.
Thankfully times have changed a bit, but socially conservative views are still met by a barrage of abuse by people like Jim and a few others.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 09:38 AM

Hmmm... still seems very ambiguous to me Ake, a catch-all term for anyone who disagrees with you. The stalking thing was awful though, very disturbing.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 09:47 AM

Well now.

Who do we look to for purveyors of viruses and other mafia scams?
Where is the will, the poverty to drive it and the expertise honed over the last couple of decades? A ready pool of recruits?

Nigeria? Doubt it.
Maldova - clue in the name there, how connected are they to Russia?
India - but why?
China - only if it can help their economy, which is not as boyant as the context they have come to rely on.
Pakistan - Taliban? Only if paid from Moscow.
IS - well they have motivation and some form on social media. Cheaper than guns, and less painful. But help a capitalist warmonger?
Niggle Farage - whatever he has up his (whatever) would be a love token to Trump.

Could be a number of groups, could be more than one. But top of the list is the Putinista.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 10:01 AM

On the contrary Stu I have met quite a few genuine liberals, but most of them have been "conservatives"...   :0)   all the best for 17.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 10:06 AM

If Brexit were part of this, then I think we are talking funding and possibly unwelcome videos, but not computer hacking. The somewhat labourious counting and announcing of paper votes makes computer hacking really difficult compared to the more traditional methods.

i doubt if there is a conspiracy of any kind: just lots of interested parties trying independently to make things go the way they wish.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 10:11 AM

Have a good 2017 yourself Ake!

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 10:34 AM

Hells teeth. He's advertising LL Bean on his twitter feed now. Hardly fitting conduct for a President Elect.

The capitalists have won. They are finally taking government in the most powerful country in the world. The workers have lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 11:10 AM

If any stalking did take place it is appalling. The obvious course of action is to report such occurances to the relevant authority, namely the police so that action may be taken against the prepetrators.

Did Ake do this, I know not. If not why not.

Is there a sugestion that these people were members of this forum? If so why not name them here, did Ake do so, if not why not.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 11:18 AM

had anyone noticed him smelling of piss prior to this?

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 11:25 AM

Who do we look to for purveyors of viruses and other mafia scams?

America and Israel. So far they hold the record for the most vicious and sophisticated acts of Internet warfare. Nobody else comes close.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 12:22 PM

America and Israel. So far they hold the record for the most vicious and sophisticated acts of Internet warfare. Nobody else comes close.

And your evidence for this is?

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 12:48 PM

I don't think I smell of piss Al! :0(

Raggytash...I don't do that sort of thing if anything happens around here I know about it pretty quick.....I have many friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 05:26 PM

There is no evidence, bobad. That's how hush-hush this whole thing is. It's preposterous and impossible to prove - so, of course, it must be true.
Right?

Gee, now I confused myself...

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 06:32 PM

Akenaton, I have sent you a PM, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 04:41 AM

It appears not to have sunk in with some people that Trump has now accepted that Russia his attempt to intervene in the elections - his claim is now that it didn't make any difference
The latest claim, from a British agent, is that Russia has been instrumental in blackmailing Trump over a visit he made to Russia and became involved in "strange sexual practices".
BLACKMAIL
Russia may not have any reason to destabilise the U.S. government, but they have every reason for having a say in her politics.
Can we have a whip-round to buy Ake a dictionary - he still seems to be struggling with the word LIBERAL?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 05:07 AM

Rachel Maddow this evening reported another oddity. Make of it what you wish:

WASHINGTON — The confirmation hearing for Donald Trump's CIA nominee got off to eerie start Thursday when the lights suddenly went out just as a senator was mentioning Russian interference in the presidential election.

"Chairman [Richard] Burr and I have committed to conduct a review of the intelligence supporting the Intelligence Community's assessment that Russia, at the direction of President Vladimir Putin–" Warner (D-Va.) said around 10:14 am when the blackout hit.

The outage immediately sparked conspiracy theories—even among senators –that Russia was continuing its meddling. (Outage later attributed to electrical work a company was conducting across the street)

That was in the morning. This afternoon, also in the Senate but in a different room RT, the Russian station, interrupted testimony for 10 minutes or so, just when Russia was mentioned.

Oddities

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stu
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 05:17 AM

The British are involved in all this. The MI6 spy who wrote the dossier is garnering some support from the UK intelligence community, but the government is keeping totally schtum, despite a British Ambassador to Moscow being implicated.

In the US, the intelligence services are taking the allegations seriously. Reading widely across the media (who have sat on this for months), it seems that the Russians had plenty of contact with Trump and his inner circle over the past 5-8 years, and he reported back on the activities of some oligarchs to Moscow (er, think about that). There is a feeling the Russians have something on him, hence is lack of criticism of Putin despite the fact the Russians hacked the US.

Amazing.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 05:23 AM

"despite a British Ambassador to Moscow being implicated."
Or maybe because of?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 10:43 AM

We've just had an example of two Trump supporting politicians on Irish Radio's Newastalk ranting about the protests, Meryl Streep et al...... everything to the Irish water tax protests went under fire as "leftie whining" not pleasant stuff.
It wasn't helped by the mind-numb presenter who appeared to be a supporter himself
What have you released on the world America?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 11:11 AM

Ake, Your post could be read to mean that people from this forum came to your village. If that was the case it is totally unsupportable (much as I disagree with some,if not many, of your posts)

Will you clarify it was not people from this forum. As it is a vague cloud hangs over your post.

If it were not, as I suspect, people from this forum it is disingenious to try to equate two separate issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 11:40 AM

Raggytash...of course it was people from this forum I would never have mentioned it otherwise
I am obliged that although we often disagreed you did not get involved in the nastiness. I enjoy debate, and am disturbed by the tone taken by several people here, there is no need to be abusive in a forum where we should all be old friends.
Keith and Teribus have different political views to me, but I admire their refusal to accept dogma in pace of verifiable fact....they also supported my right to a voice on this forum when "Team Musket" and their acolytes were at their most abusive.....I now look upon them as friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 12:25 PM

I admire their refusal to accept dogma in pace of verifiable fact.

While you do precisely the opposite. Never let a fact interfere with your dogma. Which is why your participation in these threads is guaranteed to blow them out of the water eventually. Team Musket where abusing the system here, but they kept the rodent population a bit more in check than it is now.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 04:24 PM

These people WERE the rodents, had they been removed years ago for forum abuse the stalking would never have occurred.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 04:45 PM

keberoxu, have been trying to contact you by PM, and left a message last night regarding your request......all including your PM seem to have been deleted.

What's going on?

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 06:36 PM

Maybe some foreign state hackers are at work against Mudcat....

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 07:14 PM

"Team Musket" was a term invented by akenaton if I recall correctly. I don't approve of people posting under several identities, though Musket was at least very open about the fact that he was doing it, unlike bobad, for example. I don't play for any team on this forum and I resent being associated in that way with anyone else's "team." Musket was three-in-one and had no "team." If you have issues with people harassing you in your village, take it outside. It's nothing to do with people posting here now and, frankly, it's incredibly boring to read your dark and vague remarks about it. In other words, sod off.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: bobad
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 07:54 PM

I don't play for any team on this forum

Lol!

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: bobad
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 07:57 PM

unlike bobad, for example

Lie no. 2

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: bobad
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 08:02 PM

From the Swiss newspaper Tages-Anzeiger:

Trumps Kandidaten warnen vor Russland

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 08:35 PM

We all believe you, bobad. Honest we do. Hope you're not a used car salesman in your spare time. Or two used car salesmen...

Went into Lidl today. They sell two brands of vodka, one called Rachmaninoff and the other called Putinoff. You couldn't make it up!

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 07:05 AM

There were three people using the Musket logon, that is no more. There are still posts, as a multi-faceted guest (name-wise) from at least one of them. You know them when you see them.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 07:28 AM

Rule 2 of Dick Gaughan's forum:

2. No anonymous members.
It is a requirement of forum membership that you let the other members know who you are. There is not a single good reason in a forum of this kind for anonymity. If you are normally known by a nickname, by all means use it here; my birth name was Richard but the only people who ever use that are my parents (both dead) and my two sisters and their children. The no-anonymity rule is not here to check people's birth certificates, it is simply so that we all know who we're talking to and the risk of anonymous trolling is reduced. As said, by all means use a nickname on posts but please put your real name in your member profile and you will be asked to give it when registering.

If that rule was applied here, most of the nastiness and trolling would disappear. I've posted on a number of forums over many years under my real name and I don't hold back on being controversial. It's never given me hassle. If I can't have free speech without being scared under my real name I don't want it at all. And if people can see exactly who you are you'll be more measured about what you say and how you say it, a thoroughly good thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 07:44 AM

Is there any chance we don't let this venomous prickeen troll nause up yet another thread?
Jim Carroll

From this morning's Times
MAY AND JOHNSON WERE BRIEFED ABOUT LURID DOSSIER ON TRUMP A MONTH AGO
Francis Elliott Political Editor Catherine Philp Diplomatic Correspondent Deborah Haynes Defence Editor

Theresa May was first made aware of a dossier of lurid sexual allegations about Donald Trump and his ties to Russia last month, The Times understands.
Britain's intelligence and security agencies had known about the file, compiled by a former MI6 officer, since the summer when the former spy first shared its content with the FBI.
Intelligence chiefs at the time chose not to alert ministers about the sensa¬tional but unsubstantiated material. That stance changed after Mr Trump's election victory in November.
Senior minsters, including the prime minister and Boris Johnson, were told about its existence in December in the context of British efforts to build a relationship with the president-elect.
There was also a need to inform them because of the risk that the file and its link to Christopher Steele, a former
Russia expert for MI6, would be made public. Senior ministers were assured, however, that no British intelligence agency had anything to do with its production.
Mr Johnson, the foreign secretary, held meetings with Mr Trump's son-in- law and his chief strategist in New York last weekend, just a couple of days before the news broke about the "dodgy dossier".
Asked if Mrs May had been told last month about the dossier, a Downing Street spokeswoman declined to comment, saying: "We do not discuss intelligence matters."
The prime minister attempted to distance herself from the Trump file yesterday in her first public comments about the material since it was released online on Tuesday night.
"From everything that you have seen it is absolutely clear that the individual who produced this dossier has not worked for the UK government for years," she said, referring to Mr Steele.
Mr Trump took to Twitter to launch a personal attack against the 52-year- old former British spy, who has been in hiding since Wednesday morning, just before his name became public.
"It now turns out that the phony allegations against me were put together by my political opponents and a failed spy afraid of being sued," the presidentelect said.
Former colleagues of Mr Steele have described him as highly competent, credible and trustworthy. They have said that he would not have deliberately compiled a dossier of bogus information. Orbis Business Intelligence, a private intelligence company in London that Mr Steele owns with another former spy, has a good reputation for providing information on Russian companies and individuals.
Mr Steele was hired last year by Republican opponents of Mr Trump to look into the president-elect's ties with Moscow. He is said to have been so concerned by the information he gathered that he passed his findings to the FBI.
The existence of the dossier was discussed at the margins of a security summit in Canada last year, including by British officials, said one person who was there.
Mr Trump rejected the claims as "fake news" this week. President Putin has also dismissed the allegations.
The Russian embassy in London is attempting to use the file to complicate relations between Britain and the in¬coming Trump administration.
The situation appears even more stark in Israel, where US intelligence officials have warned their Israeli counterparts to be careful about what information they share with the Trump White House for fear that it could be passed on to Russia and ultimately Iran, according to a report by one of the country's leading investigative journalists.
In the US, Steve Cohen, a Democrat¬ic politician, said that intelligence ser¬vices believe that Mr Steele is a credible source. He said he thought it would be "negligent if our intelligence officials didn't attempt to talk to [Mr Steele] and get his sources," because Americans "need to find out if any of it's true".
Lindsey Graham, a Republican senator and a fierce critic of Mr Trump, who chairs the senate judiciary subcommittee on crime and terrorism, told The Washington Post that he would not investigate potential links between the Trump campaign and Russia, instead leaving it to the FBI.
"If there were contacts that are unnerving, time will tell," Mr Graham said. He added that "a person of reasonable intelligence who does not conclude that the Russians did it really doesn't want to believe the Russians did it."
Sir Andrew Wood, the former British ambassador to Moscow who helped to bring the dossier to the attention of the US intelligence services, said he believed Mr Steele was a "very competent professional operator", adding: "I do not think he would make things up. I don't think he would necessarily always draw the correct judgment but that's not the same thing at all."

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stu
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 08:15 AM

Can I ask a favour of the posters? Sod off to anther thread if you want to start discussing your usual tittle-tattle.

If you want to discuss the subject proposed in the OP, you're most welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 08:16 AM

This dossier seems to have been an open secret amongst upper level officials in he US and abroad for a while. I heard a former administration official commenting on it last night, that it shouldn't have been presented to the current or upcoming administration until they knew more about it. Fat chance of keeping something that damning a secret. Turnabout's fair play, though, and with the dirty tricks heaped upon Hillary's candidacy, it's only too bad the nasty Trump stuff didn't surface in time to be taken into account by voters. But wait - a lot of it was - and seemed to make little difference (in those few states that actually decided the election - rational people in other states didn't vote for him, but their votes didn't count. We gotta fix that Electoral College nonsense now, and for good.)

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 09:11 AM

I read it yesterday as it is readily available. The descriptions of the dossier seem accurate: Buzzfeed did say it was all unverified and it reads like an attempt to be an accurate record of what the sources claimed, but not to assess whether what the sources said was true or not. There are a few places where the company did seem to attempt interpretation but these are very short and redacted. I disagree with the assessment of the "Golden Showers" bit as sexual perversion though. The claim to me sounded non sexual and from a very dark place.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 09:32 AM

Ironic post there, Stu.

Dunno how you're going to go about fixing your electoral college now that you're going to have a president who gained so much from it. Everything. really.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 10:06 AM

Just looked up "Golden Showers" - "peeing on one another for sexual gratification"
On the one hand it is an indication of how far America has come since the balmy days of Bill and Monica, on the other, it's not a bad bit of symbolism for what the American electorate had done to the world!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stu
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 10:07 AM

You also have to wonder about the 'false news' glut we seem to have been suffering recently. The fact so much news is offered without evidence is disturbing... or are we victims of a campaign of disinformation that means we become over-suspicious of trustworthy news outlets?

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 10:21 AM

When Mrs Clinton was several points ahead in the polls it was estimated that she would carry a large majority of the Electoral College.....no one here complained of that fact when they saw it as acting in their interests.

Several members mentioned that it was the way things were done to make the actual result more representative.

You really are a shower of bad losers...especially the uk remoaners.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 11:41 AM

We are well beyond any comparision between Trump and Hillary being relevant. Criticism of Trump - or praise where relevant - needs to stand alone now, not on imagined comparisions with how any other candidate would have behaved.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 12:26 PM

"You really are a shower of bad losers..."
And you seem impervious to what this man is, what he stands for and what damage he is doing
You were one of the first to crow over his victory - you described it as "the people's choice - as was the Nazi Party's in Germany.
Trump is what he says he is and what he appears to be - he is a misogynist racist thug whose first act was to partially settle a law suit by his company which was ripping off students fees, and which he had said he would never settle - that should have been warning enough of his predatory dishonesty.
His supporters are in the process of dismantling the affordable health scheme, leaving nothing in its place.
He has made his attitude to women quite clear....
The man is a cretin, a vicious over-privileged monster who has filled his government with similar.
What are you saying - all this is wrong - he has been deliberately misrepresented..... what?
Or is this what your "socialism" tells you is what this planet needs
I doubt if you will respond to any of this, which is why what I meant when I said you keep making your reactionary statements and refusing to answer to the facts or address the consequences of what you claim.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 12:29 PM

Well D, its not about comparing Trump or Clinton, members were commenting on the validity of the Electoral College.

If it is seen as unfair then it should be abolished, but before long one side or the other will be screaming to have it reinstated.

Its all about the final result, would you like President Trump to abolish it?

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 12:35 PM

This, according to the BBC last month, is what Trump believes and represents
Waddya think?
Jim Carroll

Donald Trump: 24 things the next president believes
The New York businessman-turned-politician said many controversial things and flip-flopped on a number of policy positions during the campaign.
Here, we look back at 24 of his professed beliefs.
1. The US should use waterboarding
This and other methods of "strong interrogation"should be deployed in its fight against the Islamic State group. These methods, Mr Trump said, are "peanuts" compared to the tactics used by the militants, such as beheadings. "I like it a lot. I don't think it's tough enough," he said in June of the banned practice.
2. Mexico should pay for the "great, great wall"
Mr Trump has said he wants to start building the much-touted wall on the shared border from the first day of his presidency, and that Mexico will pay for it. In some of his earliest campaign comments, he suggested that Mexicans coming to the US were criminals and "rapists". BBC analysis estimates the border wall could cost between $2.2bn and $13bn.
3. Muslims should not be admitted to the US
In the wake of the terrorist attacks in San Bernardino, California, Mr Trump wrotethat he was "calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on".
He's since gone back on the announcement, instead saying that that he would temporarily suspend "immigration from some of the most dangerous and volatile regions of the world that have a history of exporting terrorism".
4. Arab-Americans cheered the attacks on 9/11
Donald Trump repeatedly claimed that on 11 September 2001, there were thousands of Arab-Americans celebrating in New Jersey after two planes flew into the Twin Towers. He says such public demonstrations "tell you something" about Muslims living in the US. However, there are no media reports to back up the claim.
5. Obamacare is a "disaster".
Mr Trump says he wants Congress to fully repeal the president's Affordable Care Act, which aims at extending the number of Americans with health insurance, buthe believes that "everybody's got to be covered". A spokesman for Mr Trumpsaid he would propose "a health plan that will return authority to the states and operate under free market principles". The increase in premiums revealed just before the election bolstered the Trump attacks.
6. Climate change is just "weather"
While Mr Trump believes that maintaining "clean air" and "clean water" is important, he has dismissed climate change science as a "hoax" and believes environmental restrictions on businesses make them less competitive in the global marketplace. "I do not believe that we should imperil the companies within our country," he told CNN on the issue. "It costs so much and nobody knows exactly if it's going to work."
7. The world would be better off if Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi were still in power
Mr Trump told CNN that he believes the situation in both Libya and Iraq is "far worse" than it ever was under the leaders of the two countries. While he concedes Saddam was a "horrible guy", he says he did a better job combating terrorists.
Grande on near Roma, Texas.
8. Illegal migrants should be deported
Trump once said that he wanted to deport all of the approximately 11.3 million undocumented immigrants in the US, despite criticism that this idea is both xenophobic, next to impossible and prohibitively expensive - the BBC estimates a cost of $114bn. His official policy now says only those with criminal records will be deported immediately, although immigration controls will still be massively beefed up. Any undocumented migrants would also face the risk of deportation.
9. Syrian refugees could be a "Trojan horse"
He says that the Paris attacks prove that even a handful of terrorists posing as migrants could do catastrophic damage, and so he will oppose resettling any Syrians in the US, and deport those who have already been resettled. It's unclear if he still believes that deportations are necessary, though he has still vowed to suspend the intake of Syrian refugees.
10. Vladimir Putin is a "leader"
He has noted the Russian president's "great control over his country" and criticised the state of the relations between it and the US. He told CNN: "I would probably get along with him very well. And I don't think you'd be having the kind of problems that you're having right now". More recently he has said that Mr Putin doesn't "respect" the US, although that was no reason to get tough on him.
11. Taxes should be reduced for everyone
Trump wants to condense the current seven tax brackets to just three, with no income tax for "low-income Americans". He would lower the business tax to 15%, from 35%. He would also allow multinational companies keeping profits overseas to repatriate their cash at a 10% tax rate.
12. Hedge fund managers are "getting away with murder"
Mr Trump found common ground with Democrats like Senator Elizabeth Warrenwhen he said that hedge fund managers and the ultra-wealthy did not pay enough taxes. However, after the campaign released specifics of his plan, analysts arguedthat hedge fund managers would actually get a tax cut along with the middle class.
13. China should be taken to task on a number of trade-related issues
He has said he will make China stop undervaluing its currency, and force it to step up its environmental and labour standards. He is also critical of the county's lax attitude towards American intellectual property and hacking.
14. The Black Lives Matter movement is "trouble"
Mr Trump mocked former Democratic candidates like Martin O'Malley for apologising to members of the protest movement against police brutality and cast himself as a pro-law enforcement candidate. "I think they're looking for trouble," he once said of the activist group. He also tweeted a controversial and widely debunked graphic purporting to show that African Americans kill white and black people at far higher rates than white people or police officers.
15. He's worth $10bn
Based on Mr Trump's 92-page personal financial disclosure form, Bloomberg calculated last year that the real estate mogul was worth about $2.9bn, while Forbes recently put Trump's net worth at $3.7bn. Mr Trump has however insisted that he is worth "in excess" of $10bn.
16. Veteran healthcare in the US needs a major overhaul
Mr Trump wants to clear out the executive level in the Department of Veterans Affairs, saying that waiting times for doctor visits have only increased after previous interventions failed. Thousands of veterans have died while waiting for care, he says. He will invest in the treatment of "invisible wounds" like post-traumatic stress disorder and depression. He would also increase the number of doctors who specialise in women's health to help care for the increasing number of female veterans.
17. Lobbyists should be more restricted
Mr Trump proposes that there be a five-year ban that prevents government officials and members of congress from leaving and then immediately becoming lobbyists. He also calls for a lifetime ban on senior administration officials from lobbying on behalf of foreign governments.
18. He is a "really nice guy"
In Trump's most recent book, Crippled America, he writes that "I'm a really nice guy, believe me, I pride myself on being a nice guy but I'm also passionate and determined to make our country great again". The news site Gawker points outthat he calls himself a "nice guy" throughout the book, and Mr Trump repeated that self-assessment in his opening monologue on Saturday Night Live and in an interview with the Washington Post.
19. He could not have groped an unattractive woman
A video from 2005 showed Mr Trump making obscene comments about women and triggered numerous claims of alleged sexual harassment. At one rally, he suggested that one of the accusers - a "horrible woman" - was not attractive enough for him to have groped: "I don't think so! I don't think so!"
20. Tokyo and Seoul should build up nuclear arsenals
He has said Japan and South Korea should not rely on the US so much and would benefit from having their own weapons. Nuclear war between Japan and North Korea may be "terrible" but it would be "pretty quick".
21. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization (Nato) is a "rip-off"
Why? Because the US pays more than anyone else. But he later said he was "all" in favour of the alliance.
22. Doctors should be punished for administering abortions
Or should they? In an interview with MSNBC, Mr Trump said that if abortion were to become illegal, women should be punished for obtaining them. He then retracted, saying the doctor would be responsible and he or she should be punished, instead.
23. The Republican National Committee's rules were "stacked against him"
He called the delegate system "crooked" and "unfair". He repeatedly clashed with the RNC over its nomination process and how it treated his candidacy during the primaries. He called rules that allowed Senator Ted Cruz to gain more delegates than him in some states "rigged", as he did later when talking about the electoral process when polls were showing Hillary Clinton ahead of him.
24. The federal minimum wage should be raised
Workers should be paid more than the current level of $7.25/hour, he has said. though this is another issue he has flip-flopped on repeatedly.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 12:42 PM

Personally speaking, yes. You have a voting system, or you dont. Havong a voting system that nominates people to do the actual vote but not have them bound in any way to reflect the voting in their state seems strange. To replace a vote of many millions by one of a few hundred voters does not seem justified logically. And on the very few occasions i have commented on it i have taken that stance. Now most of the times i have commented has been in conversation with my wife and family (ex DC) and other US friends so I can't reference posts so you wil have to believe me.or not as you choose.