BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jan 17 - 07:36 AM

Don't know if anybody caught the BBC programme on Trump and his gangster connections last night, including the Russian Mafia
"Happy days are here again - pity it's back 1920s Chicago
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stu
Date: 16 Jan 17 - 10:45 AM

When you ladies have stopped flirting with each other, can we get back to the subject?


"When action has occurred we can all comment."

But action has occurred. We've years of Trump's exclamations and comments, we can see how he runs his business and how he deals with conflicts when they occur and we now know he's been dealing with Putin for some time. We know his views on Muslims, women, disabled people, journalists and the press, Mexicans, guns and a whole slew of other subjects.

The dossier is being taken seriously enough by many people as the Kremlin is a complex and dangerous place, and the power plays within it's walls mean that western analysts sit up and take notice when material like this becomes available.

It might well turn out to be another dodgy dossier, but then again it also might not.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jan 17 - 10:35 AM

"Jim as I said let us wait until he has a chance to carry through some of his policies. "
I have to say, I find the idea that you elect a misogynist racist thug into office and wait to see if he lives up to his misogyny and thuggery before you comment, one of the most bizarre attitudes to politics I have ever encountered, especially as he has begone to live up to his promises and his self-projected image
If you have no intention of discussing this subject intelligently, I would be grateful if you didn't refer to my postings again, especially to describe them as "bile and venom"
I have no wish to fall out with anybody here, but I don't believe I've ever come across such and infantile and mindless idea in my life.
And please lay of with the snide comments on my typing - especially with your own limited grasp of both language and debate
You really haven't got the hang of this yet, have you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jan 17 - 09:08 AM

Jim as I said let us wait until he has a chance to carry through some of his policies. Commenting on what may be is a waste of time. When action has occurred we can all comment.
Steve do yourself a favour and pick up a dictionary and look up the definition for posting off topic in order to generate argument.

The thread concerns BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
Steve posts:
          Focus, Iains. It may help you to produce an intelligible post. 😂
and
          There are six errors of grammar or punctuation in your post, Iains. It's best to avoid having a pot at others for their "typos" unless you're perfect yourself.

Now how that fits into the thread escapes me. Both are designed to provoke.
It fits the dictionary definition of trolling for me.
How a comment on a lack of typos can be taken as a criticism is beyond me. Jim has said several times in the past that his keyboard created them. Having had my own keyboards act the same way in the past prompted the question-nothing more.

And I think Jim can easily fight his own corner without the seemingly omnificient shaw butting in.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jan 17 - 06:25 AM

Iains
You obviously have no intention of responding to the questions I asked, yes, no or qualified, so it seems you support what he is and what he has said he stands for - nice to know
The fact that he might not do what he promised the electorate he would do just adds blatant lying to his formidable list of qualities - what a wonderfully democratic world you seem to support - we elect somebody into office and hope they do (or in this case, don't do) what they promised.
The fact that his supporters are already tearing down America's accessible health system makes it obvious that he is going to fulfill his democratic programme!!
Your inquires about my typing are little more than a snide attempt to sidestep the subject.
Trolling is the hit-and-run technique you seem to favour - make a statement and refuse to elaborate - you have a perfect example of this in your running mate
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 17 - 06:02 AM

Don't criticise anyone else's typos, even if you think you're just taking the mickey. That's off-topic, it's disrespectful and it's very likely to bring criticism of your own mistakes raining down on you. And you did it first. Jim's meaning is always crystal clear to me; that's what's important. And, for the record, your last post contains seven, arguably eight, errors. That's not counting your misunderstanding "troll." Just move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jan 17 - 05:24 AM

Well steve Jim has said in the past his keyboard caused problems. Why not pay attention and stop trying to provoke argument.
A troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional reponse

Does the cap fit Shaw?

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 17 - 04:49 AM

There are six errors of grammar or punctuation in your post, Iains. It's best to avoid having a pot at others for their "typos" unless you're perfect yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jan 17 - 04:37 AM

"Jim you admit yourself that what a politician says and does are different beasts"
Instead of the bullshit, why not just respond to the questions
It really would save you a lot of time and embarrassment
Do you support all the things I have listed as Trumps policy - is that what you believe a suitable policy for the president of the most powerful and influential country in the world
Feel free to elaborate, but a simple yes or no would be preferable
Then we would know where we stand
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jan 17 - 04:14 AM

Jim you admit yourself that what a politician says and does are different beasts. Just how much independent action is allowed in the Presidency? I would imagine that independent action occurs with all the speed of swimming through molasses. It would be better to have this conversation in a years time when events unfold more, assuming the same person is in office.
By the way did you get a new keyboard for christmas? the typos seem to have evaporated.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jan 17 - 03:42 AM

Iains
In my above list, I missed the fact that, in a country that is noted for a medical service which checks a patient's bank balance before they even consider checking their state of health, Trump's supporters are now in the process of dismantling America's only affordable medical scheme and moving back to the old 'pay up or die' system.
Ake has refused to even acknowledge what Trump actually is and what he himself has said he stands for - are you going to join him in that cowardly dishonesty?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 07:03 PM

The safe thing is to assume is that the spy agencies in Russia, the USA, the UK and just about every other country go in for a whole range of dirty tricks, including hacking, honey traps and whatever else comes to hand. It's what they are there to do.

Most conspiracy theories are nonsense. They identify the wrong conspiracies, and miss the real ones, which are always there.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 06:29 PM

it's pretty well a proven fact

Lol.......except you offer no proof.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 05:24 PM

Focus, Iains. It may help you to produce an intelligible post. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 04:25 PM

On hearing of the murder of Gaddaffi this generated a controversial response from then U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who remarked, "We came, we saw, he died."

This was because he wanted to use his gold backed dinar to provide a pan african currency and kick the CFA into touch. This got the reluctant French on board to support the international bankers and go for regime change. This also destroyed the oil industry, a lot of urban infrastructure, encouraged terrorism and virtually put the country back in the stone age.
Your response to this Mr Shaw displays your naivety of a 17 year old.
Hilary Clinton shows common characteristics with her predecessor Madeleine Albright..
Lesley Stahl, speaking of US sanctions against Iraq: "We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And – and you know, is the price worth it?"

Madeleine Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price – we think the price is worth it."
Nice people!

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 04:18 PM

What we are about to see is a monumental collision of Trump who is all about the deal and his cut, with the Government which is designed to prevent personal deals and self enrichment.

At great cost both Trump and Government will crash into each other.
Republicans & alt right will run from the Constitution at great peril but greed will blind many to the danger.

The people who love the hate will continue to be distracted by Trump as they did with W Bush until a similar global disaster of economy or war effects them personally.

The aftereffects will include precedents for every corrupt anti ethical criminal endeavor that will be the opposite of draining the swamp.





Holy crap, this almost sounds like a quatrain.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 03:42 PM

This is an observation and not a criticism of anybody, even the 'ex pat' ake who somehow believes he is American.

99.9% of you will argue over the unending tweets from Trump and his inane behavior, all of which are designed to divide and conquer. The arguments may be true, profound and meaningful but the original trumptweet has a different intention than what you think.

You know Donald is motivated by 2 things, Donald Trump and $.

The myriad of issues like Immigration, health care, Walls, Jobs in America are props for you to be obsessed by and watch to the exclusion of everything else.


The true financial crimes will further be obfuscated and perpetrated by the 5 Goldman Sachs cabinet members, Tillerman, Price and Carl Icahn.    All the while everyone is distracted by the latest lie and hateful tweet of worry, fear and embarrassment.

If you think Tromp is even remotely interested in patriotism or the Constitution I'll try what you are smoking.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 02:44 PM

"Jim if you did not spit so much bile and venom at Trump "
Does not someone who behaves like Trump deserve the occasional gob?
Clinton is a candidate for sainthood compared to this man - Steve's description just about sums her up.
You don't have to be a U.S. citizen to be an admirer, as you appear to be.
How he deals with Putin is materializer - there is no question of sending tanks into Russia - a total red herring.
Are you people naíve enough to think you can get away without dealing with Trump himself says?
He is an open misogynist who has been heard to advocate sexual assault as legitimate behaviour - doesn't need an MI6 agent to work that one out.
He is an open racist in a nation made up of a patchwork quilt of different races and cultures.
He's building a Berlin-type wall across the country to keep out foreigners, and demanding that the country concerned should pay for it.
He has chosen an open antisemite to be part of his team.
In the middle of a winter fighting the effects of global warming, he has appointed somebody to deal with it who believed global warming is horseshit. He has already upset several stateswith his arrogant strutting and his big mouth
He has appointed a team of billionaires to run a country that has some of the highest poverty in the world.
His business methods have shown him to be a crook capable of ripping off young students.
AS the leader of the world's most powerful nation, he has advocated the use of nuclear weapons at least half a dozen times
His supporters in the country include the most lunatic fringe politicians and ultra racist groups, such as The Tea Party and the Klan - and Sarah Palin , for crying out loud!!
Is this the world you wish to bequeath to your children>+I'm not sure who is the most insane, Trump or those who support him.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 02:08 PM

search

Russia needs policy change to cash in on big bet with Exxon Rachel Maddow you tube.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 02:01 PM

Hillary Clinton was a pretty average, middle-of-the-road, typical US presidential candidate. Maybe you're only about seventeen or something, Iains, but I've lived through a lot of US and UK elections and not once have I ever seen anything even remotely approaching an "optimal" candidate. Trying to defend the indefensible Trump, as you are doing, by attacking Clinton is just about as perverse a piece of thinking as I've ever come across. What planet are you on?

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 01:24 PM

Jim if you did not spit so much bile and venom at Trump and looked at the alternative Clinton you could maybe see she ain't no saint either.
I do not know why you think I support Trump. I am not American. I do think though that his ideas on communicating with Putin make far more sense that putting thousands of troops and tanks on the Russian border.
This would seem extremely bizarre behaviour for a President just about to leave office. Is he trying to box the President elect into a corner or hope things kick off so he can declare martial law and suspend the inauguration. Seems to me there will be far less corpses scattered around the world under Trump than under Clinton.
Neither candidate seemed optimal to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 12:49 PM

"Why the delay?"
Why not - having a billionaire with clout in high places in your pocket is money in the bank for as long as you want it - why blow it all in one go.
I suggest you read the background fully - not just todays article.
What is so "fairy story" about any of this?
We know Trump is a misogynist thug who believes that if you fancy a woman you just "grab them by the pussy" - we all heard him saying this - no equivocation there.
A 'Golden Shower' seems par for the course to such scum.
We know that Russia did hack into the election - is there any doubt about that?
Even Donald F*** Trump has stopped claiming it isn't true.
Putin's track record makes it highly possible that any useful information he has on influential people will be used with care and foresight - very much a part of his Security training - honey-traps' were long established standard procedure with those people.
This information has been kicking around since before the election - the only reason it wasn't used was that nobody believed that America would be so stupid as to elect a psychomanic moron into office.
Acme and Donuel both put it in a nutshell quite succinctly, in my opinion
I am talking to (another) Trumpeter, aren't I - confirmed by the fact that you have now been joined by a self declared one?
Can't say I'm not disappointed - two out-of-the-closeters is a little rich for this forum.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 12:00 PM

The policy of how the intelligence agencies deal with politically charged information is to not interfere with elections. Comey's delivery of the letter about email being found was astonishing because he was acting in a way counter to the long-standing policy about dropping sensitive and uncorroborated information into the election news cycle. His successive letter was too little too late to counter the damage of his act. The fact that the Trump stuff wasn't dropped into the news cycle because it hadn't been corroborated because it hadn't been proved is the way they were supposed to behave. Clearly it was leaked by people who couldn't stand that this stayed hidden, but it won't affect the Trump/Clinton election, even though she resoundingly won the popular vote. Now this may contribute to a Pence presidency - and while Trump sways in the wind, influenced by whoever last spoke to him, Pence is a religious zealot who would knock society back to the dark ages with his views on women's rights, the rights of workers, access to health care, the right to get birth control and abortion on demand, and many other issues that he has diligently fought for years. He is the awful underbelly of the Trump administration.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 11:49 AM

Exactly Iains!!

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 11:41 AM

Jim do you not find it a little strange that the CIA with all the resources at it's disposal rely on a dodgy dossier put together by a Brit(who by all accounts seems a cross between walter mitty and 007)
It appears to me a last ditch attempt to usurp the Presidency by using third party smears. Then if it all backfires they can claim "not me boss"
It all seems very late in the day to me. If the claims had any credibility they would have tripped over themselves to release it all as soon as they got their grubby little hands on it.
Why the delay?

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 11:14 AM

That Putin is able to sow mistrust in the US government, UK, Germany etc. is a separate issue which may bite him in the ass.
Right now it is pretty clear that Tromp is Putin's chump.

Swiss Banks used to be a safe hiding place for money but has come under scrutiny. The new regulations may get rolled back but there is about to be so much money to hide it appears that Russia and Exxon itself may become the new hiding place. But this is only my speculation.

Stu, Rachel Maddow researched the exxon Tillerman Russian link and its monumental scope defending on getting rid of US sanctions. She did a show on oil and gold just last week and is searchable on you tube.

After oil and gold are other profit scams that are petty in comparison but can be a nail that failed in a horse's shoe because of greed. The weak link in a chain can be important.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stu
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 10:50 AM

Hmmm... interesting stuff Donuel. I'm going to read up on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 10:36 AM

Tromp starts fires over immigration , civil rights, nukes and men vs. women. Any lie for fear and hate to divide us.
BUT is that his motivation?

NO

You already know he is motivated by money. (He is too old for women now)

Everything else is a smoke screen, a distraction and camouflage so he may pull off a heist bigger than you can imagine.

The cost of the fires he starts is of no concern to him. Only the profit is important to him.
That is why he thinks he is smart.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 10:32 AM

"Jim all the times article has done is given some background as to who what and whys behind the dossier"
A little more than that - the contents of the dossier have been known for a month now and have been hushed up - some details where known at the time of the election and only partially used.
Of course we only have opinions to go on and we consider the veracituy of those opinions by the reputations of those who hold them.
The only people to have dismissed them outright are Trump and his supporters - remind me what they said about Russia's involvement in the first place!!
If it is "false news" show me how it is or show me someone who has proved it is.
This is beginning to feel like another knee-jerk response from a Trumpeter - I do hope I'm wrong
Bobad
I singled out Israel as they re one of two States who have chosen to attack the internal politics of another State, Russia with America, Israel with Britain (in relation to BDS)
I have no intention of debating with you on this - it's pretty well a proven fact - so feel free to let forth with your vitriolic vomit if that's what turns you on.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 10:02 AM

The Tillerman Putin oil lease deal is for 64.5 million square miles . The largest oil deal by far in the whole world.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 09:47 AM

Stu I will describe the situation to you as it is and ignore the spin and the official positions and distractions. The conspiracy theory we think we see is not the motivation for the real money grabs that are planned. It is money that enables idealogoies NOT the other way around.

Oil, Gold, Coltan and money...FOLLOW THEM.

Forget the pissing contests and all the other ruses and rabbit holes on twitter.

I will start with Oil. The players are Exxon, Putin's State owned Oi and Aramco. Tillerman arranged oil leases around the world. Some small countries he leased for a % of oil production. Many counties leased around a million square miles up to 4 million sq. miles. Exxon has leased a whopping 14.5 million sq. miles right here in the US.
But the Tillerman Putin lase deal is for ^$.% million sq. miles.
Read that again and again. This happened right before sanctions were put on Russia because of Ukraine aggression and put a road block on all oil production with Exxon.

With Tillerman as Secretary of State and Trump as President what would you Stu think will happen with the Russian Exxon Oil deal that was stopped 5 years ago? Do not forget the biggest Exxon lease oil deal in the world of 64.5 million sq. miles of hard to reach Siberian oil.


Next is the biggest Gold deal ever proposed. Carl Ichan is the biggest share holder in the largest gold mine in the world that can be seen from space. The mine is in Indonesia. The government of Indonesia has tried to shake down the mine for a 20% share but with Trump protection and Icahn new cabinet position an extra 29% of gold profits are insured.


Anyone can follow the money and wealth. But most people only watch the street fight and miss the BIG PICTURE.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 09:26 AM

I haven't yet been able to find out who govetech are so the (somwhat old) report is interesting but i dont know how much credence to give it


What I can definitely confirm is that some of the best selling firewalls and similar are from Israeli companies and that an effective prevention of cyber attacks relies on a good understanding of the kind of hacks that take place. Not evidence they carry out such attacks, but definitely evidence of knowledge about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 09:19 AM

Jim all the times article has done is given some background as to who what and whys behind the dossier. Those opinions expressed as to validity of the contained data are precisely that-opinions. It takes us no further forward. It is yet another attempt by the British press to give a false attempted legitimacy to what are pretty outrageous claims.
It is a proof by bluster from what was a respected news source.
It is not just the internet that acts as a purveyor of false news. The length of time something has circulated prior to release is probably more to do with the poor credibility of both contents and source.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 09:16 AM

Top 10 Countries Where Cyber Attacks Originate

1.         China         41 percent (of the world's attack traffic)
2.         U.S.         10 percent
3.         Turkey         4.7 percent
4.         Russia         4.3 percent
5.         Taiwan         3.7 percent
6.         Brazil         3.3 percent
7.         Romania 2.8 percent
8.         India         2.3 percent
9.         Italy         1.6 percent
10.         Hungary 1.4 percent

http://www.govtech.com/security/204318661.html

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 09:07 AM

It's now on record Bobad
Cyberhacking has become a weapon of the extreme right
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 09:00 AM

the two leading exxperts on cyberhacking are Russia and Israel in today's political world

No evidence of course just the opinion of an obsessive with a personal agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 08:14 AM

"Just because the Times has printed a fairy tale does not mean we have to believe it."
Just because it doesn't suit your personal agenda doesn't mean it's a fairy tale, Iains
I sem to remember that the story of Russian election interference was greeted with the same sceptisism - now even Trump has accepted it as a fact.
This has been doing the rounds behind the scenes for at least a month - which is an indication that them indoors are taking it seriously.
It's a fairly detailed article naming names and by an established and respected Spook.
If someone told me Putin had fed on of his opponents polonium I miht well have taken it as being lifted straight from a Freddie Forsythe page-turner - now.....!!!!
The two leading exxperts on cyberhacking are Russia and Israel in today's political world - two right-wing governments
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 08:11 AM

No, indeed. As I said, this represents, as far as I can tell, an accurate account of what was said to those compiling the dossier. Each statement may be wholly true, wholly false, or somewhere in between. All intelligence bodies have had problems with informants who are fantasists or had ulterior motives. Those compiling the dossier could themselves be fantasists or have ulterior motives. All this is why you need add intelligence to the raw information, which these dossiers do not do, they present the raw data.

Having all that, and expressed the need to execise extreme caution, we should consider the statements with the caveats, not pretend they were never made.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 07:58 AM

Just because the Times has printed a fairy tale does not mean we have to believe it.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 05:52 AM

Evidence?
From The Sunday Times, this morning
Jim Carroll

THE SPY LEFT OUT IN THE COLD
Toby Hardan (Washington) and Tom Harper
He looked like any middle- aged London businessman meeting a colleague in the arrivals hall of Heathrow's terminal 3. With a dark jacket and open- neck shirt, his brown hair receding at the temples, Christopher Steele was adept at blending in with the crowd.
The copy of the Financial Times under his arm marked him out to the former US government official who had just landed on the red-eye from Washington. No one would have noticed the American, with wire-rimmed glasses and a closely cropped beard flecked with grey, shaking hands with an Englishman he had not met before.
But as the pair drove in Steele's car towards his comfortable home in Surrey the former MI6 officer must have realised his days of operating in the shadows were numbered. It was late November and the American had come to discuss a dossier about links between Donald Trump, who had been elected president earlier that month, and Vladimir Putin's Russia.
The dossier had originally been com¬missioned by a wealthy Republican busi¬nessman appalled at the prospect of a crass billionaire property mogul capturing his party's nomination for the White House.
He employed Fusion GPS, a Washington "research firm" run by former investigative journalists, which in turn went to Steele, a Russian specialist whose Belgravia-based corporate intelligence company Orbis Business Intelligence boasts of its "ability to meld a high-level source network with a sophisticated investigative capability".
But what Steele had found had shocked even him: a hard-bitten former spy who had worked undercover in Moscow during and after the collapse of the Soviet Union and had delved into the corrupt activities of Russian oligarchs on behalf of the FBI.
Using his extensive network of contacts, Steele found Putin's government had been "cultivating, supporting and assisting" Trump for years. Most explosively, his sources told him that Trump had taken part in "perverted sexual acts" that had been "arranged/monitored by the FSB", the Russian security service in whose predecessor, the KGB, Putin had held the rank of lieutenant - colonel.
On one occasion in 2013, Steele's sources had told him, FSB-linked prostitutes had performed a "golden showers" show for Trump in the Ritz-Carlton hotel in Moscow, urinating on the bed in which Barack Obama and his wife Michelle had slept during a presidential trip to Russia.
This month a two-page summary of what Steele had originally intended as a secret dossier was attached to a memorandum about Russian attempts to manipulate the US election and delivered to Obama. Ten days ago it was given to Trump and explained to him by James Comey, director of the FBI.
Apparently fearing his identity as the author of the report would emerge, Steele abruptly left his home last Wednesday, taking his wife and children with him. He asked a neighbour to look after their cat without apparently saying where he was going or when he would be back.
Within hours Steele's name was on the front pages of newspapers across the world. Trump denounced the dossier as "fake news" and its author as a "failed spy afraid of being sued". He accused the US intelligence agencies of acting like "Nazi Germany", adding: "It was a group of opponents that got together, sick people, and they put that crap together. "
Yesterday Trump took to Twitter to declare: "Intelligence insiders now claim the Trump dossier is 'a complete fraud!"' Why did Steele decide to break cover? What are the long-term implications of a former British spy taking on an incoming American president? And could Trump really be the ultimate Russian fantasy, a Kremlin agent in the Oval Office?
Some time around 1986 a discreet approach was made on behalf of MI6 to Steele while he was an undergraduate at Girton College, Cambridge. A president of the Cambridge Union debating society, he reportedly described himself as a "confirmed socialist" but was judged to be an ideal recruit to the Secret Intelligence Service.
At the Oxford Union, Balliol College's Boris Johnson was elected president that same year. But Oxford has always been
better known for its politicians and Cambridge for its spies. And while the future foreign secretary was an ebullient bon viveur and showman even then, Steele was content to live a life of relative obscurity.
By 1990 Steele was officially listed as second secretary (chancery) at the British embassy in Moscow. While there he worked closely with Sir Tim Barrow, the new ambassador to the EU. His MI6 peers included another young recruit, Alex Younger, who now heads the intelligence service and has been left with a giant head¬ache by Steele's actions.
When Steele arrived in Moscow Putin was still in the KGB and acting as an adviser to Anatoly Sobchak, the then mayor of St Petersburg. Together the two spies on opposite sides of the Cold War divide experienced the collapse of the Soviet Union but drew different conclusions about the way the future of East and West should develop.
Steele lived in Moscow with his wife Laura, whom he had met on a double-date in 1988. His "grey man" persona led her to dub him "Chris Whatsit". A friend from that time recalled the couple faced "constant harassment" from the KGB, which even included the theft of Laura's favourite pair of shoes from their flat.
An associate of Steele described him as a brilliant linguist and analyst who was "sometimes awkward in his interactions with people" but otherwise the consummate spy, adding: "Chris is an introverted, detail man. He had an impressive network of contacts."
After three years in Moscow the Steeles returned to Britain where they bought a house in southeast London and had two sons, Matthew and Henry. In 1998 they were posted to Paris where Steele took the title first secretary (financial). Their daughter Georgina was born in France two years later.
In 2002 they moved back to Britain, eventually settling near Famham, in Surrey. Steele worked his way up in MI6 to head the Russia desk in London where he had to deal with the fallout from the murder in 2006 of Alexander Litvinenko, a former KGB officer assassinated by his old colleagues with a lethal dose of radioactive polonium-210 in his tea during a meeting at a Mayfair hotel.
Steele was profoundly affected by Litvinenko's death and appears to have concluded that Putin ordered it. Aki Peritz, a former CIA officer, said this could have been a turning point for the MI6 man. "If I had to speculate, I'd say that it became per - sonal. What happened later [with the Trump dossier] might have been payback."
Some believe Litvinenko's murder enraged Steele so much he began a vendetta against Russia, which eventually may have led him to take risks such as the decision to circulate the Trump dossier.
A friend of Steele's, however, dismissed this notion. "The idea he would have gone off on a crusade is excessive, " he said. "He was approached to do a job and he did it. It targeted an old adversary, yes, and the job allowed him to mix business with pleasure, but it was a commercial contract."
Laura, who had suffered bouts of illness in France, died aged just 43 in September 2009 of cirrhosis of the liver. Steele later married again and had a fourth child with his new wife.
Shortly before his first wife's death Steele retired from MI6 and founded Orbis with Christopher Burrows, another former MI6 operative. The company has earned £lm over the past two years and was instrumental in exposing corruption at Fifa, world football's governing body, with Steele assisting the FBI.
One former associate of Steele described low-key meetings with contacts at an underground wine bar in Mayfair. He maintained links with his old employers and at a centenary party for MI6 he was on a team of former spies who played "Uni¬versity Challenge — intelligence officers vs
'pouring in'
He added: "And in terms of high-end product influx into the US, Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets; say in Dubai, and certainly with our project in SoHo and anywhere in New York. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia."
Donald Ir and his brother Eric are trustees of the Trump Oganisation and will run it during their father's presidency.
intelligence historians", adjudicated by Jeremy Paxman.
Steele produced the first instalment of his Trump dossier in June last year. Five months earlier Trump, whose penchant for boosting Putin had already raised eye¬brows, startled American hawks by defending the Russian president after a British judge concluded that he had prob¬ably ordered Litvinenko's murder.
"I don't think they've found him guilty," Trump said. "They say a lot of things about me that are untrue too. If he did it, fine. But I don't know that he did it. "
E
lements of Steele's dossier appear unlikely to be true and little in it can be verified. Trump's lawyer, Michael Cohen, who was named as having met a Russian intelligence official in Prague in August, has denied being out of the country that month or of having visited the Czech Republic.
"But just because not everything in the dossier is true doesn ' t mean that nothing in it is," said one veteran intelligence official with extensive Cold War experience.
"Maybe the source got Cohen's name wrong. Was the meeting in fact in Budapest in July? It's easy to get to Prague without getting a stamp in one's passport. It's a two-hour drive from Dresden and three hours from Vienna. "
Michael Morell, a former acting CIA director, said after reading the dossier he was "transformed back into an intelligence analyst at CIA and I felt like I was reading raw intelligence reports from sources".
Some bits of information, he told CNN, he knew were true, other "small bits" he knew to be false and a lot he had no idea about: "This is what you see when you look at raw intelligence. And, very important to remember, sources — even the best CIA sources — get things wrong all the time. "
Although an espionage professional who was used to casting a dispassionate and even cynical eye on human failings and foibles, Steele had been convinced by his experience with Russia that Putin was a real threat to the stability of the West.
If the Russian president had the type of kompromat (compromising material) that could turn the leader of the free world into his puppet, Steele concluded, then his dossier needed a distribution wider than that of Trump's vanquished political opponents.
Some time in the late summer or early autumn he passed parts of his dossier to the FBI, but grew frustrated that the bureau seemed more interested in investigating Hillary Clinton's secret email server than looking into Trump's Russian ties.
Steele also began to circulate his findings among American journalists, meeting one, David Com, Washington editor of the left- leaning magazine Mother Jones, in New York to urge him to take the report's "hair- raising" contents seriously.
They spoke on the understanding that Corn would not name Steele. "Someone like me stays in the shadows," the former spy told the journalist.
Corn did publish some of Steele's material, but he withheld the most salacious parts of the dossier and it had little impact. A week later Trump was elected.
Steele, however, was so exercised by the potential threat to western security that he continued his campaign to unmask Trump's alleged ties to Russia, even though he was now out of contract and reportedly working for free.
It was then that he set up his meeting at Heathrow with the former American official to whom he passed the dossier. The official is believed to have given it to Senator John McCain, a prominent critic of both Trump and of Putin.
Some have accused Steele of allowing his personal animus towards Putin to cloud his judgment, opening himself up to the danger of being fed Kremlin disinformation designed to undermine confidence in US democracy.
"You don't recruit a Russian," said one intelligence source. "A Russian decides whether he or she wants to trust you with their life and whether the rewards you can give them outweigh the enormous risk of having the Russian secret service at your doorstep.
"So if a Russian talks to you, it will be to either misinform, or to take a massive risk and leak sensitive information for a personal or ideological gain. It will not be because you have charmed or persuaded them to betray the Russian state."
Despite Trump's determination to ride out the storm that has erupted over the dossier, the affair has added to concerns about his closeness to Russia — whether in term of his business ties or some of his appointments.
There has been particular concern over Michael Flynn, a retired lieutenant-general Trump has appointed as his national security adviser. Flynn had flown to Moscow in 2015 to attend a gala dinner held by the state broadcaster RT, where he had sat next to Putin.
Last week US intelligence officials leaked that Flynn had spoken by telephone to the Russian ambassador in Washington several times in the past month, including on the day when Obama expelled 35 Russian diplomats in retaliation for cyber-attacks during the US election.
Trump is plainly angry about Britain's role in what he views as an attempt to delegitimise his election. For once, Britain's close intelligence ties to America appear to be a negative in the eyes of a US president.
Boris Johnson had been briefed on the contents of Steele's dossier before going to New York and Washington last week to meet Steve Bannon and Jared Kushner, senior advisers to Trump.
The Senate intelligence committee said on Friday it would be investigating Russia's attempts to influence the presidential election and if necessary would subpoena Trump aides to appear. If he chooses to testify, Steele would be a star witness.
The president-elect, meanwhile, is pressing ahead with plans for a summit with Putin soon after his inauguration.
Representative John Lewis of Georgia, an icon of the civil rights struggle, said the dossier and other revelations indicated that Trump should not be America's leader.
"I don't see this president¬elect as a legitimate president," he said. "I think the Russians participated in helping this man get elected. "
Additional reporting: Richard Kerbaj tobyhamden

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 05:12 AM

"Not a single shred of evidence". I agree, evidence would be most welcome and working without it is fraught with difficulties. But there is a recognised lower standard that we can and so work with when we have to, namely balance of probabilities, which in its turn is related to consistancy. You can read each of the claims in the dossier and ask whether it is consist or inconsistant with his behaviour and approach for which there is evidence, such as tweets, speeches, business dealings and so forth.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jan 17 - 03:24 AM

"As we all know what a politician says prior to an election manages to mutate into a very different beast once in power."
Where does that put "democracy"? - you vote for one thing - you get something else entirely, therefore you have no say and all voting is a sham.
If that is the case - why vote?
I suggest you look at what Trump is saying, what he is andd what has already begun to happen in America since his election and work out what we can look forward to.
THen perhaps we can forget such mindless idiotic remarks like "bad losers...especially the uk remoaners."
People who take that stance invariably would be happy to see Britain led by such a thug - they call them "strong leaders".
They then usually go on to demand that we bend over and take what we're given otherwise there will be "huge social disorder".
Maggie's "enemy within" phrase is useful for such people.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: bobad
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 09:06 PM

Came across this on Facebook:   

Here is a the basic run down about the Trump, Russia hacking and blackmail by Putin connections; why Putin is controlling Trump as a "Useful idiot" and potentially how from what I have gathered. If you want to know why, Here goes

1) Trump owes Blackstone/ Bayrock group $560 million dollars (one of his largest debtors and the primary reason he won't reveal his tax returns)

2) Blackstone is owned wholly by Russian billionaires, who owe their position to Putin and have made billions from their work with the Russian government.

3) Other companies that have borrowed from Blackstone have claimed that owing money to them is like owing to the Russian mob and while you owe them, they own you for many favors.

4) The Russian economy is badly faltering under the weight of its over-dependence on raw materials which as you know have plummeted in the last 2 years leaving the Russian economy scrambling to pay its debts.

5) Russia has an impetus to influence our election to ensure the per barrel oil prices are above $65 ( they are currently hovering around $50)

6) Russia can't affordably get at 80% of its oil reserves and reduce its per barrel cost to compete with America at $45 or Saudi Arabia at $39. With Iranian sanctions being lifted Russia will find another inexpensive competitor increasing production and pushing Russia further down the list of suppliers. As for Iranian sanctions, the 6 countries lifting them allowing Iran to collect on the billions it is owed for pumping oil but not being paid for it. These billions Iran can only get if the Iranian nuclear deal is signed. Trump spoke of ending the deals which would cause oil sales sanctions to be reimposed, which would make Russian oil more competitive.

7) Rex Tillerson (Trump's pick for Secretary of State) is the head of ExxonMobil, which is in possession of patented technology that could help Putin extract 45% more oil at a significant cost savings to Russia, helping Putin put money in the Russian coffers to help reconstitute its military and finally afford to mass produce the new and improved systems that it had invented before the Russian economy had slowed so much.

8) Putin cannot get access to these new cost saving technologies OR outside oil field development money, due to US sanctions on Russia, because of its involvement in Ukrainian civil war.

9) Look for Trump to end sanctions on Russia and to back out of the Iranian nuclear deal, to help Russia rebuild its economy, strengthen Putin and make Tillerson and Trump even richer, thus allowing Trump to satisfy his creditors at Blackstone.

10) With Trump's fabricated hatred of NATO and the U.N., the Russian military reconstituted, the threat to the Baltic states is real. Russia retaking their access to the Baltic Sea from Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia and threatening the shipping of millions of cubic feet of natural gas to lower Europe from Scandinavia, would allow Russia to make a good case for its oil and gas being piped into eastern Europe.

Sources: Time Magazine, NY Times, The Atlantic, The Guardian UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 04:46 PM

If you state something D I am always inclined to believe you, and I think you have a point, but rules is rules and Donald Trump won the election according to the rules.

If the establishment/media manage to have the result annulled there will be huge social disorder.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Iains
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 03:43 PM

Jim there has been a lot of information released about American interference in other countries as you say. This has been caused presumably by American Presidents although to what extent they are constrained or even nudged by external forces is unknown. Eisenhower was very clear about the military industrial complex and as time has gone by I would be surprised if that influence has diminished- so it rather begs the question-Who actually runs the show.
As we all know what a politician says prior to an election manages to mutate into a very different beast once in power. I am sure the same constraints apply in other countries (UK)as well. We have two prime examples of a referendum and election going against all predictions.
How much of what we are reading about the President elect is merely the machinations of extremely sore losers trying to delegitimise his presidency before it has started. Interestingly certain British newspapers just will not drop the subject even though so far not a single shred of evidence has been offered to support the allegations.
To hope Trump may be overthrown or deposed could cause any number of unintended and intended consequences and those events would not just be internal to the States. You should be very careful of what you wish for.
I find both the American election and Brexit vote surreal. I just hope it is only the bookmakers with tears

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 03:13 PM

"Do you propose overturning democracy purely because you cannot accept the result? "
Just a thought here Iains
In my lifetime America has persistently interfered in the policies of other countries - including those with democratically elected governments.
They have supplied arms, intelligence and money to insurgents who have carried out bloody coups and established extremist right wing governments - they have backed mass murderers, they have even invaded countries whose governments they didn't like.
Democratically elected or not, if Trump does what he says he intends to do, he will be an utter disaster for any form of democracy and freedom - so, yes, I'd be more than happy if he were overthrown or deposed - poetic justice.
I'd happily donate our washing line for the lamp post - bring it on!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 02:18 PM

The electoral college has been a hot button issue for many years. Al Gore also lost because of it. The time for the popular vote is here, in which every voter counts. The EC was established when only white land-owning men were voting - for this reason alone, many women have opposed this political relic. You can take your sore looser theory and stuff it - in the ballot box.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 02:01 PM

"Jim you do not seem to accept that President elect Trump won the election under the American voting system"
That's not what I said - I do believe that now proven Russian interference makes it questionable whether that system was interference, but that's beside the point.
I don't believe that the populism that has recently become the norm has little, if anything to do with democracy and more to do with mob rule, but again, tat is beside the point.
As said, Hitler came to power via Germany's version of Democracy - should he have been allowed to do what he did without interference or recrimination?
I set out what I believe is and what he stands for
The question I asked is is that a fair description and if so, is it right that the world should accept that because he was elected?
Apartheid South Africa happened under an electoral system of sorts yet it was finaly overturned by outside pressure - was that undemocratic?
Where do you go with this.
I ask again - is what is being thought of Trump accurate, and if so, is that sort of individual the person whose finger should be on the nuclear button, is America fit to remain a member of the U.N., and exercise a veto, what attitude do we expect our own government to adopt to such a leader......
At this stage, I'm not questioning the validity of the vote - just the consequences of the result
Why is it so hard to get a response, do you think?
We are discussing an extreme problem here
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 01:33 PM

Apparently the spook behind the kompromat's revelation (a highly trusted British agent, according to people in the business) has gone on the run, tragically telling his neighbour to mind his cats.

Subject: RE: BS: Kompromat. Trump. Brexit. Something odd.
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 01:29 PM

To be more precise: I would like to see the Electoral College abolished but I would not like such reorganisations of the system to be in the power of the President alone, whoever that was.