BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 07:46 AM

"Osama bin Laden had absolutely nothing whatsoever with Saudi Bin Laden Construction."
It substantiates nothing of the sort - it says it is a family business, there is no reason to believe he was not part of it
He had a degre in Civil engineering, yet there is no record of him ever having worked, so we can safely assume that he lived from the family billions which came from the family construction firm.
Nit-pick this as much as you like, but his money came from construction.
As usual, you are wrong.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 07:48 AM

Nice to see Shaw is shying away from his idiotic remarks and version of the evils of the "Enclosures" and benefits/drawbacks of the Agricultural Revolution seeing as how he was getting hammered on those subjects. So now he wants to direct and deflect the off topic discussion to modern farming.

Tell me Shaw whose idea was it to pay UK farmers for growing nothing? I take it that you have heard of "set aside" haven't you? The answer as to who did that is the EU Commission.

Very pleased that you brought up "Foot and Mouth" - whose rules, that had to be followed to the letter, closed hundreds of local abattoirs and called for the setting up of abattoirs that specialised in the slaughter of certain animals that called for animals being transported over hundreds of miles to get to the correct location - best way known to man to ensure the spread of "Foot and Mouth" going - Right again Shaw it was the EU Commission.

Also pleased that you disapprove of the CAP - wasn't that the thing that the EU were supposed to have been reformed in exchange for Tony Blair relinquishing part of our rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher. Good ol' Tone gifted that away and got nothing in exchange - what a prat, they must have seen him coming for miles.

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 08:51 AM

"Nice to see Shaw is shying away from his idiotic remarks "
Is there any chance that this feller be stopped from fucking up this thread with personal abuse aimed at anybody who disagrees with him.
Permanently talking down to people really isn't going to keep this thread alive for too long
For crying out loud - leave him at it and move on
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 09:21 AM

I tend not to "shy away," as no doubt others may have "noted" (oops,wrong thread! 😂😂😂) I do get very bored with going round the same old circles with a chap who sees my name, automatically spends the next hour building a head of steam then posts a pile of aggressive, revisionist abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 10:14 AM

I don't know - I'd tend to trust Fisk's word on Middle Easter subjects - but a government report not naming a company may have more authority.

If you hunt it out, there's a long extract in Vanity Fair from a book by one of Osama Bin Laden's sons which is interesting. I vaguely thought the family had been wealthy for generations, but no, Osama's father worked his way out of utter poverty before getting the hugely lucrative contracts in Mecca and Medina.

It's always seemed to me a strange psychological quirk in Osama Bin Laden that his father died in a plane crash and he repeatedly tried to use planes as deadly weapons.

But we're straying away from the subject again. Looking at lists of elected and appointed leaders of countries and of leaders who inherited the honour, it appears to me that a huge majority came from the civil service of their countries, or from work within their political parties. Even the royals could be said to work for the civil service.

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 12:34 PM

"it says it is a family business, there is no reason to believe he was not part of it" - Jim Carroll

Ah so his father divorcing his mother shortly after his birth, her remarrying and him moving with his mother out of the family home didn't register then Jim? Not as though he was at the centre of things was he?

He didn't have any money at all until he received his "cut" when his natural father died, but even then he had nothing to do with the family's construction business.

Still Jim never let facts get in the way of a good story, it has never stopped you in the past, it is only a great pity that there a few here on this forum who pull you up on your wilder flights of fancy.

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 02:01 PM

"but even then he had nothing to do with the family's construction business."
Have you any evidence of this?
"Still Jim never let facts get in the way of a good story, "
Are you totally incapable of addressing people without abusively talking down to them?
You really do manage to fuck up these discussions with your constant arrogance
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 02:26 PM

Were you aware that Clyde Barrows worked for a time at a glass factory in Dallas ? (Just wanted to contribute something else relevant to the subject of the thread).

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 02:28 PM

As I have a spare minute, let me untwist your twisted thinking on the EU and abattoirs. First, those small abattoirs were indeed driven out of business but the EU commissioners were not to blame for that. The EU laid down regulations about inspection and hygiene that small outfits should have been able to but couldn't afford to take on board. Our own government could have helped those small businesses to up their game - isn't that what every bloody government we ever elect says it will do? - but, instead, they allowed them to go to the wall. So let me ask you - where would you rather your meat came from, a well-run slaughterhouse that abides by strict hygiene and inspection rules, or a back-street setup doing its own thing unobserved, letting blood into the drains? When I lived in Tipton in 1973 there was an abattoir in the middle of the town that had more rats than people strolling in and out of it from the main road outside. Jaysus!

Second, the 2001 outbreak started as a result of either illegal imports of infected meat or by feed producers failing to sterilise infected swill, or both. EU commissioners do not organise illegal importing or encourage the production of infected swill last time I looked.

Third, the reason that animal movements spread the disease was extremely slack government regulation, a total failure to learn lessons from previous outbreaks. Recommended good practice such as inspection and vaccination prior to transport was never adopted. The responsibility for that rested squarely with the government, yes, the one led by the man who you mistakenly think I admire despite my telling you a hundred times how much I detest the bastard. EU commissioners set out regulations to prevent disease and restrict its spread. Our own government had it totally within their power to make farmers and transport companies up their game towards standards that any sane person would recognise as appropriate. The way you talk you'd think that those slapdash, corner-cutting ways of old were perfectly hunkydory. They were not, and the EU was actually doing a damn sight more about it than our own governments.

I know how you love to blame the EU for all the ills of the world. I also think that setaside and other aspects of agricultural and fisheries policy are absurd. But, as ever, you allow your ideology to blind you to the specifics and you end up blaming the wrong people. We're the fifth best economy in the world I imagine you telling me. Well the fifth best economy in the world should be more than capable of organising animal inspection and movement according to strict and appropriate regulation in a way that prevents the uncontrolled spread of disease. That outbreak spread to several other countries in Europe but not one of them suffered like we did in spite of having to stick to the same rule book. Wonder why. .

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 02:37 AM

1: As far as the 2001 FMD epidemic goes its origins were traced to a pig farm in the North-East of England {Burnside Farm, Heddon on the Wall, Northumberland}. From there it was wind spread to neighbouring sheep farms {sheep are the hardest animals to diagnose}. UK was compliant with ALL EU rules, codes and practices. In accordance with those the infected, but undiagnosed pigs from Burnside farm had to be transported to an abattoir in Essex where they infected pens and it was only when 20 "finished" pigs caught the disease at this abattoir was the outbreak discovered. By this stage over 57 sites had been infected. The EU contingency set up to deal with outbreaks is based upon the disease being detected before 10 sites are infected. Investigation showed that the only cause for the outbreak was contaminated swill.

2: Routine vaccination of livestock to prevent or slow foot and mouth disease is not legal in the European Union. European Union law permits the use of emergency vaccination only as part of a stamping out policy where appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 03:56 AM

Evidence that Osama bin Laden never had anything to do with Saudi bin Laden Construction?

Does the fact that not one single biographer makes any reference mentioning him ever working for the company count?

Time line indicates Osama bin Laden leaving University in 1979 and going off to Pakistan to set up training bases for Mujahideen to help them in their fight against the Soviets. From that point onwards his life, whereabouts and his activities are fully documented and nowhere is there any reference to him working for Saudi bin Laden Construction.

Not really all that clear what Osama bin Laden's degree qualification was. Mentioned as being Business Administration and/or Civil Engineering with two different years being mentioned 1979 and 1981 (The latter is impossible as he was in Pakistan at that time).

Quite early on in this thread Jack Campin put forward Osama bin Laden as an example of a businessman and a leader of a nation. IIRC his words were that Osama bin Laden was "an influential businessman and statesman" - I merely pointed out that Osama bin Laden had never been any of those and had certainly never been the leader of a nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 04:34 AM

"Time line indicates Osama bin Laden leaving University in 1979 and going off to Pakistan to set up training bases for Mujahideen to help them in their fight against the Soviets"
Using family money, no doubt - or did he stand in the street witnh a collecting tin?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 09:25 AM

Well there was the $25-30 million that he inherited on the death of his father. But what has "family" money got to do with any claim that he worked for the company owned by the family as a civil engineer?

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 09:32 AM

.. yes.. all very interesting.. but what was Osama bin Laden's favourite TV show,
and did he dress to the right or the left...??? 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 11:59 AM

There is very little infotrmation on Bin Laden's early life - even the documents seized in the raid have never been made public, but it is logical to believe that it was family money he used, which came from the fortune amassed from building.
One of my regular customers in London owned McAlpine's - never seen a shovel in his life and certainly never been on a building site and he employed representatives to attend company meetings but he worked for a building company - or so he claimed.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 02:40 AM

"There is very little information on {Osama} bin Laden's early life"

1: We know that following his parents divorce Osama bin Laden was not brought up in the bin Laden family home.

2: We know that he was not raised by his natural father, but by his Step-father.

3: We know he was not schooled by the bin Ladens, but by his Step-father.

4: We know which of Osama bin Laden's brothers did work in the family business and those that did not. There is no mention of Osama bin Laden ever having any connection to Saudi BinLadin Group.

5: We know that on the death of his natural father Osama bin Laden received somewhere between $25 and $30 million as his part of his natural father's estate. Sounds a great deal but when you consider that his natural father was worth in excess of $5 billion it puts the size of Osama's inheritance into perspective.

6: We know that in 1992 he was banished from Saudi Arabia and that in 1994 he was stripped of his Saudi citizenship, disowned by the bin Laden family and had all his assets frozen.

From 1979 when he left University and moved to Pakistan there is a great deal of information on Osama bin Laden's location and activities. Between 1979 and 2011 there is no mention of Osama bin Laden ever having any connection to Saudi Bin Ladin Group.

"One of my regular customers in London owned McAlpine's - never seen a shovel in his life and certainly never been on a building site and he employed representatives to attend company meetings but he worked for a building company - or so he claimed.

Your regular customer had every right to claim that he worked for a building company - he owned it and he employed people to act on his behalf, unless he ran the company through nominee directors, your customer would still have duties and responsibilities under Company Law. If your "customer" is being put forward as a comparison to Osama bin Laden's situation then he makes a very poor one, unless of course you are trying to tell us that Osama bin Laden owned SBG? Which of course is complete and utter nonsense.

Osama bin Laden was never a businessman.
Osama bin Laden was never a statesman.
Osama bin Laden was never the Leader of any Nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 03:23 AM

Can't really understand why you bother with nit-picking these arguments Teribus
Bin Laden left $29m on his death, deposited in Sudan, where he lived until he was deported.
One of instructions of the distribution of his legacy read:
"Another 1 percent of the sum should be given to a second associate, Engineer Abu Ibrahim al-Iraqi Sa'ad, for helping set up bin Laden's first company in Sudan, Wadi al-Aqiq Co, the document said."
Reuters.
He was a businessman - he owned at least one company, "first company" suggests he had several - they appear to have been connected with engineering
He no doubt used some of the profits of that company to fund his other activities.
Nit-pick your way out of that one
Now perhaps we can move on.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 04:41 AM

LOL!!! What "comic" did you get that from Jom?

A thirty second "look" using Google comes up with at least three "wills" none of which can be verified, none mention the "bequest" detailed in your post but mention the rather inconvenient detail for your "story" in that the $29 million cannot be found and that Osama only "believed" that that is what he was worth. Latest date of any will mentioned was December 2001.

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 05:11 AM

Love it - love it - another Made up Carroll Shit"
WHEN WILL YOU EVER ****** LEARN?
Made my day
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 05:13 AM

Latest date mentioned March 16th 2016
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 09:17 AM

The Reuters article is March 2016, the documents related to Osama bin Laden are not, they are much older, taken during the raid in which bin Laden was killed and merely recently declassified and released.

The company mentioned was no "Construction Company" it was an Al-Qaeda "holding company", a front used as a front for receiving contributions to the cause.

Wadi al Aqiq
Part of Al-Qaeda

Details

Center of Gravity
Sudan


Goal
Holding company

Leader
Osama bin Laden

Key members
Mamdouh Mahmud Salim, Wadih El Hage

Formed - 1991
 
 
Narrative and Notes

Osama bin Laden formed a holding company called Wadi al-Aqiq in the Khartoum, Sudan, to raise money for al-Qaeda purposes. It was the first al-Qaeda company formed in Sudan.
Osama served as chairman, and Salim as the general manager.
 
 
Sources
1: United States vs. bin Laden, Atef, El Hage, Fazul Mohammed, Odeh and Al-Owhali, indictment, Nov. 4, 1998.

2: Jamal al-Fadl testimony, United States vs. Osama bin Laden et al, trial transcript, Day 2, Feb. 6, 2001.

3: Essam al-Ridi testimony, United States vs. Osama bin Laden et al, trial transcript, Day 5, Feb. 14, 2001.

Osama bin Laden was never a businessman.
Osama bin Laden was never a statesman.
Osama bin Laden was never the Leader of any Nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 12:26 PM

Reuters got it wrong then??
Can't trust anybody these days!
Un-be-leiveble!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 01:12 PM

The Guardian didn't fare much better
You can't get the help, you know!!
Jim Carroll

Osama: the Sudan years
Bin Laden spent five years in the Sudan before being expelled in 1996. The authorities claim he was busy building roads and farming. But what was he really up to?
James Astill
Wednesday 17 October 2001 03.22 BST
"Osama who?" says the information minister, when he is asked about the man who spent five years running half of Sudan's industries, and perhaps even a global terrorist network, from an office just round the corner. "Oh... that Osama."
President Bush's "with us or against us" speech made plain the consequences of not siding against Bin Laden, and Sudan has had further to scramble on-side than almost any other country. It is still on America's hitlist of states that sponsor terrorism - and Bin Laden's handprints are all over the place. There is his bullet-scarred house in a Khartoum suburb, his plane sitting at the airport, the companies he owned, the bank accounts...
"He was investing heavily, he was doing the country a lot of good," says Mahdi Ibrahim Mohamed, the information minister. "But when the Americans told us to extradite him, we did - not that they provided proof of his involvement in terrorism." And not that Mohamed knew him well, you understand. They only met a few times.
Bin Laden first flew to Sudan from Afghanistan in early 1991. Al-Qaida had been formed three years before but, officially at least, the US still considered him a friendly mojahedin. By 1998, less than two years after he was expelled from Sudan, he had become America's most wanted man, thanks to the east Africa embassy bombings. It seems reasonable to conclude that Bin Laden's years in Sudan were crucial for the development of his terrorist network. So what was he up to all that time?
Nothing, say the Sudanese: it was Bin Laden's expulsion from Sudan that tipped him over the edge - which is to say, Sudan never hosted a terrorist. "Being extradited turned Bin Laden into an anti-America terrorist," says Dr Gutbi el-Mahdi, who took over Sudan's intelligence agency shortly afterwards. "Whatever his views when he was here, he was just doing business. We were watching him and he was under control. In Afghanistan, he went completely out of control."
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On the surface, at least, Bin Laden was just another rich businessman. And having recently inherited as much as £200m - though estimates vary wildly - Bin Laden was a most welcome addition to a poor country ravaged by civil war. He started several businesses. The biggest were al-Hajira, a construction company, and Wadi al-Aqiq, which farmed hundreds of thousands of acres of sorghum, gum arabic, sesame and sunflowers in the central Gezira province. According to el-Mahdi, Bin Laden's initial investment in Sudan was around £10m, mostly in heavy machinery.
Bin Laden first opened a small office in McNimr street, amongst the crowded ministries of central Khartoum, then moved it to the affluent suburb of Riyadh, where he had a house. But he was more often at Soba, his farm just outside Khartoum, according to a former close business associate, and this was where most of his business was done. The farmhouse was a single-storey mud-building, with no furniture and a rough wooden roof, on the left bank of the Blue Nile. The floor was beaten earth, laid with camel rugs.
"His men all had nice air-conditioned flats in the city," says the associate. "But Bin Laden preferred to live simply with his horses and wives." There were four wives at the time, two or three horses and numerous children. "He was just another Saudi investor," he says. "If there is nothing between you, he is very kind. He smiles a lot. I never considered him dangerous."
According to this associate, Bin Laden's mixed bag of mojahedin employees made indifferent managers, however. The reason he visited Bin Laden so often was to complain about money owed to him, or the mismanagement of the farms he was renting out.
Bin Laden's business with the government, which supplied the vast majority of his contracts, did not go to plan either. Ideologically, Sudan's Omar al-Bashir and his mullahs were more to Bin Laden's liking than the Saudis for whom his father had built roads; but they were much worse at paying their bills. After completing 200 miles of road north from Khartoum to Adbara, and another 100 miles on towards Port Sudan, the government reneged on Bin Laden's £20m fee, instead giving him a majority share in a tannery, worth £5m. The road was never completed.
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Meanwhile, the Sudanese government, which had declared a jihad against the country's Christian rebels, was augmenting the army with Islamist militias, press-ganged from Khartoum's sandy streets and souks. Bin Laden is rumoured to have been funding them heavily. But he was not training men himself - or for the government, according to the business associate. "Khartoum's a small town and everyone would have known," he says. Wisa al-Mahdi used to visit one of Bin Laden's two Saudi wives, Om-Hamza, a lecturer in Koranic law, from Medina, who would sometimes preach to local housewives. Others are scared to give their names when they talk about the Bin Ladens, but Al-Mahdi, the wife of Hassan Turabi, architect of Sudan's Islamic revolution and Bin Laden's friend, is happy to reminisce - her husband has just been imprisoned. "Osama was an ordinary Muslim, a good family man," she insists. "Definitely, he wasn't training people to kill."
But the idea that Bin Laden was nothing more than a wealthy tycoon with business problems and a generous Islamic patron during his years in the Sudan is heavily undermined by the testimony of a former al-Qaida member from the embassy bombings trial in February. Jamal Ahmed Fadl, a 38-year-old Sudanese man, worked as a general fixer for Bin Laden in Khartoum before running off with £70,000 in 1994. He says the business was all a front for al-Qaida. He describes a web of worldwide Islamist terrorism groups, with al-Qaida doling out guns, money and expertise at its centre.
Fadl says he personally smuggled four crates of explosives to Yemeni rebels. They were taken from a stockpile at Bin Laden's farm in Soba, and trucked to Port Sudan, where an army intelligence officer helped transfer them into an army truck. At midnight, the truck was taken to an al-Qaida boat moored at the army dock. Fadl also describes delivering $100,000 in $100 bills to an opponent of King Hussein of Jordan in Amman. He says he led a caravan of 50 camels loaded with Kalashnikovs to Egypt. And he details al-Qaida's assistance to Islamists in Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Syria, Chechnya, Turkey, Eritrea, Tajikistan, the Philippines and Lebanon.
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According to Fadl, and others in Khartoum, the Gulf war in 1991 put the US in Bin Laden's sights just as he was moving to Sudan. Shortly afterwards, at one of the weekly al-Qaida meetings in Soba, he issued a fatwah against the US for desecrating the holy cities of Mecca and Medina. Two years later, he issued another, at the same place and time, sunset on Thursday, to mark the arrival of American peacekeepers in Somalia. Southern Sudan would be next, Bin Laden told his men - not entirely unreasonable given America's military support for the rebels there.
There are other stories that contradict the idea that Bin Laden led a quiet life in the Sudan. In 1995, four activists from an ultra-extreme Egyptian group which considers Islam so corrupt that it would be best to start again, opened fire in a mosque in Omdurman, killing 12 people. Afterwards, they jumped into a Toyota pickup and went hunting for Bin Laden - whom they judged offensively liberal. According to former neighbours, the Toyota screamed to a stop outside Bin Laden's offices, opposite his house, and even before getting out the occupants opened fire. Shots were returned immediately, from the offices and from the roof of the house. Within minutes, one man lay dead in the street, two or three in the offices, and three in the pickup. The fourth attacker was hanged.
By early 1996, America was demanding that Sudan expel all its suspected terrorists, including most of the Afghanistan veterans. Bin Laden was high on that list, but principally as a well-known employer of Islamist misfits. Once his businesses were broken up, the US authorities assumed that he would disappear. "There was an awareness that he was tagged a dangerous figure; but we didn't have a handle on him as I recall," says Donald Petterson, the American ambassador to Sudan throughout most of Bin Laden's stay. Khartoum offered to hand Bin Laden over to Saudi Arabia, or, potentially straight to America, says el-Mahdi, the spy chief. "If America had had something against him we would have looked at extraditing him to America, but they had not."
But, fearing an extremist backlash, and having nothing to charge Bin Laden with, Saudi Arabia wanted no part in the deal. "Ask him to leave the country. Just don't let him go to Somalia," the CIA finally instructed General Elfatih Erwa, who was leading Sudan's negotiatiors. "We said, 'He will go to Afghanistan,'" says Erwa. "But they said, 'Let him.'"
The government promptly seized Bin Laden's businesses; Bin Laden chartered a plane for Kabul. He got away safely, but at the most conservative estimate, his losses totalled £30m. "He has nothing like the money you all think," says one of the country's richest men. "Losing a few tens of millions here nearly finished him off," el-Mahdi concurs. "I would say that by the time he went to Afghanistan he was totally broke - he didn't have anything."
Several Sudanese banks have had foreign assets frozen since September 11. But businessmen, as well as ministers, say that whether Bin Laden still has major investments in Sudan depends, as his former associate puts it, on whether "the government decides to give them back or not".
That does not look likely. Sudan is doing its brutal best to stamp out potential Bin Laden support. More than 50 of Turabi's supporters have been arrested since September 11 after protesting against his arbitrary detention and the country's perceived appeasement of America. "It would have been better for Osama and for Sudan if he had never left," says al-Mahdi, Turabi's wife. But it doesn't look like he'll be back.

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 01:46 PM

Very entertaining Jom - but complete hogwash.

Common knowledge that Osama bin Laden inherited $29 million after the death of his natural father - who did he inherit the other $171 million from?

"the man who spent five years running half of Sudan's industries, and perhaps even a global terrorist network"

F**kin Hilarious.

"the US still considered him a friendly mojahedin"

Really?? Rather doubt that his Fatwas caught their attention as did Al-Qaeda attacks in the USA and in the middle-east.

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 03:58 AM

"Very entertaining Jom - but complete hogwash."
You are both arrogant and insane to deny news reports, the guardian one based on an actual interview.
You deny them - you offer nothing to substantiate your denial
Go find a lifeboat - your ship is sunk
I really do think we're finished here - hopefully you are to, but I doubt if meglos like you are capable of learning their lesson
Thanks for the giggle though!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 04:11 AM

Punkfolkrocker, Osama Bin Laden's favourite TV show was The IT Crowd, according to articles after his assassination.

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 09:29 AM

Sunk?? Far from it Carroll. The really funny thing in attempting to any discussion involving you is your rush to cut'n'paste articles that you believe support your line of reasoning, when 9 times out of 10 they do the opposite - Do you ever actually read them through? - Your last "contribution" is no different.

Subject: RE: BS: Businessmen as Leaders of Nations
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 09:52 AM

Can you explain why The Guardian and Reuter got it so wrong and only you have the answer?
Your response to the Reuter article was "LOL!!! What "comic" did you get that from Jom?"
You dismissed the Guardian one as "complete hogwash."
Can't have it both ways - they are what you described them as or I didn't read them properly - which is it?
If the latter - put me right
You are an inconsistent saddo "sunk" joke.
Jim Carroll