BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jan 17 - 02:07 AM

I'd rather play guitar. That's what I'm gonna do.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 05:33 PM

Oh dear Raggykins you don't know much about "live firings" of missiles do you? Suggest that you look at the performance specs for the Trident II and then you may (although I rather strongly doubt it) realise what acceptable test parameters might be and how slight the margins might be for aborting the test flight of a missile.

But if you really want to frighten yourself have a little trip exploring how long it has been since the Soviet/Russian Navy has successfully carried out the launching of a ballistic missile from one of their submarines (Having said that they did recently successfully test one of their new land based ballistic missiles, but that is a much simpler process).

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 04:14 PM

If you are happy that the failure of over 6% of test firings indicates any degree of "reliability" you and I obviously live in very different worlds.

Yes, these launches have been aborted, or so we are lead to belive, what happens when the system that control that also fails.

Uoops Sorry Manhatten we meant to bomb Moscow ................

Not that that would worry you. We really do live in different worlds.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 03:31 PM

Hahahahaha Dave! Teresa May, according to your clicky, made some interesting...er... films. 'Naughty Nylon Lust' and 'Teresa's Heel And Foot Tease' for example. I could never watch porn, I'd die laughing.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 01:36 PM

Theresa May who? he's probably thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 01:29 PM

Now holding hands with Trump. ...shudder...

On the plus side he probably thought she was Teresa May

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 02:07 AM

Then that "someone" would be "Google" Raggykins.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 11:14 AM

I fear someone is in breach of the Official Secrets Act passing all this information to you Terrikins

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 04:56 AM

My above posting went to the wrong thread - sorry for the confusion, (though I'm sure it will give our resident fact denier future ammunition)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 01:02 AM

My pleasure. Little things mean so much....

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 07:36 PM

Answered very clearly Raggy - the work done on the submarine.

Thanks BWM - but from your contribution I think you got the gist.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 04:01 PM

The expression is "FOUNT of all knowledge", not 'Font'.

Carry on....

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 03:20 PM

You fail to answer the question.

What was being tested, the submarine or the missile

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 02:56 PM

"You consistently get into arguments with people because of who they are, not because of what they say"
Bit unfair, I thought - a constant jibe here is "leftie", or "your team" - or lumping together people like "the usual gang" - rather than responding to points made.
We are all prone to personally insulting - it often happens in subjects that we take seriously, but makybe it's time we all put a btake on it.
Mind you, that's a bit difficult when one of the main culprits obsequiously praised the moderator for doing her job while leaving the impression that it's everybody else who is the problem and nuffin' to do with him.
Bizarrely, the same individual uses "liberalism" as an insult - no idea where to go from there!!
The worst behaved individual on this forum is incapable of posting without personally insulting and talking down to people - equally bizarrely, our "illiberal" and obsequious friend regards his behaviour as beyond reproach - amazing what you can get away with if you say the right things to the right people (right being the operative word)
Insulting and cowardly Trolls like Bobad seem to be beyond all reason and will be what they are while they are allowed to get away with it.
We all need to get a grip if this section is to survive - and that can only happen if we "see ourselves as others see us" - not a bad time of year to quote that!
See what I mean about our serial abuser (Mr T's posting landed before I posted my message, conveniently underlining my point)
As I said - we all need to get a grip - and some of us need to come to terms with our ignorant arrogance
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 02:44 PM

Wonderfully reassuring to read that Jim Carroll regards the Daily Telegraph as the font of all knowledge and clearly states that he implicitly believes every word it prints.

By the way Jim was Osama bin Laden, that businessman of note as you seem to regard him (On the sketchiest and doubtful evidence - if any at all) a member of any Chamber of Commerce, or was he a Rotarian? The only "companies" identified were all exposed as fronts for channelling funds for Al-Qaeda.

Laughable Shaw? Then please point out all those "laughable errors" - My bet is that Shaw will remain silent.

To answer Raggy's questions:

1: There are 18 submarines capable of carrying and launching Trident II D-5 Missiles - As far as the Royal Navy goes HMS Vengeance is a submarine that has just undergone a major refit:

"In 2012, Vengeance started a 40 month refit at HMNB Devonport near Plymouth which refueled her reactor and renewed her machinery and electronics. During that period her sister ship Vigilant took her place in the patrol rotations. She sailed from Devonport on 4 December 2015, her place in refit being taken by Vanguard. Vengeance then went through trials from January 2016 to June 2016 and fired an unarmed D5 missile during her Demonstration and Shakedown Operation (DASO) which allowed her to return to the fleet. Whilst the firing of the missile was a success, the missile itself suffered a failure during flight and the test was terminated."

At $37.7 million per shot "live firings" are restricted and not haphazard as Raggy jokingly outlined - my bet 40 months down the line when HMS Vanguard reaches the same point in her DASO she too will conduct a "live firing" using the US Range off Florida. I take it that even you Raggy would concede that if you have worked on and renewed machinery and electronics related to the launch systems on a nuclear ballistic missile submarine that those systems would have to be tested with a "live firing" before being accepted as fully operational?

2: There have been no modifications or design changes related to the Missile that would require a missile test, any such tests would by necessity have been carried out by Lockheed-Martin and nobody apart from the American and British Governments would have been aware of them, such tests would not have been plastered all over the media.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 02:10 PM

Did she comment about the size of his hands? Or that he's built bigly?

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 01:12 PM

She is sooo smart.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 01:07 PM

THERESA MAY charms Donald to the bone and has cemented a lifetime relationship of loyalty and love.

On their first meeting in Philadelphia Theresa was heard to say cooingly " Oh my!, Donald, you are sooo big in person".

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 10:11 AM

"So pray tell us just what was being tested, a refitted submmarine or the missile that mis-fired. "
None of us has security clearance for that information, even though we pay for it
This from the "very untrustworthy" according to our in-house expert Daily Telegraph
Jim Carroll

"US Trident failure claims contradict Michael Fallon
23 JANUARY 2017 • 10:25PM
American defence officials last night confirmed that a Trident missile test last year had been a failure, undermining UK Government claims that it had been a "success".
In a row that threatens to escalate into a diplomatic incident, unnamed US officials said that an unarmed Trident missile test off the coast of Florida had to be "diverted into the ocean to self-destruct" because of an "anomaly".
The disclosure came as Sir Michael Fallon, the Defence Secretary, was appearing before MPs saying that HMS Vengeance, one of Britain's Trident nuclear submarines, had been "successfully tested and certified as ready to rejoin the operational cycle"."

When will these stupid people realise that they need too check with Teribus for factual errors and typos before they go to print.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 09:49 AM

Speaking of insane, I do hope May has experience in dealing with psychosis induced sleep deprived super ego maniacs .
Don's most vulnerable times are at 3AM at his angriest and 3PM when he is most suggestible.
Shouldn't be a problem then, that's 8a.m. & 8p.m. GMT

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 09:14 AM

"it was not the missile that was being tested DtG, it was the submarine that had completed an extensive refit" .................

"it is not known whether or not what went wrong with the missile has been identified by Lockheed Martin"

So pray tell us just what was being tested, a refitted submmarine or the missile that mis-fired.

Where they just playing about launching a missile (unarmed), Something to do on a boring day, bit quiet lads, come on lets launch a missile.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 08:46 AM

Speaking of insane, I do hope May has experience in dealing with psychosis induced sleep deprived super ego maniacs .
Don's most vulnerable times are at 3AM at his angriest and 3PM when he is most suggestible.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 08:44 AM

"badly written copy of the press."
Wjhich came from the entire press and included a report by Nuclear News - the mouthpiece of thousands of scientists from the Nuclear Industry.
Your dismissal of such information as "badly written" is nonsensical, especially next to the standards of your own poorly put together pronouncements
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 08:23 AM

Thanks Teribus. I still disagree about the nuclear deterrent but that makes more sense now. I guess the questions now are why would May try to hide the fact from parliament and why has nothing been said about the alleged misreporting. I suppose we may never know!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 08:08 AM

You can call it what you want in order to establish your superiority over the rest of the world - everybody else calls it "renewing the Trident system" (even those who debated it in Parliament
Why the **** should anybody believe a twerp who recently denied O=Bin Laden wasn't a businessman, when the rest of the world knew he was
Feckin' insane
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 07:07 AM

More laughable by the minute.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 07:01 AM

"The debate was about renewing the Trident system" - Jim Carroll

Wrong Jim the debate was about replacing four ageing submarines coming to the end of their operational life in order that the United Kingdom could retain it's nuclear deterrent.

I would rather hope that Government Ministers have more to do than correct ill-informed and badly written copy of the press.

"surely the fault that the missile apparently developed during the test in question should have been brought to attention of parliament before the vote." - DtG

It was not the missile that was being tested DtG, it was the submarine that had just completed an extensive refit. Lockheed-Martin are responsible for all the missiles deployed by both USN and RN in the Atlantic, no doubt they have their own methods and means of testing those missiles, at the time of the debate as to whether or not to replace the Vanguard-Class it is not known whether or not what went wrong with the missile had been identified by Lockheed-Martin.

"If the reliability of the missile is in doubt, then the future of the missile should be reviewed." - DtG

IF being the operative word there, however, the reliability of the missile is not in doubt. The Trident missile has been operational since 1979 Trident I up until 2005 and the Trident II since 2005. Since that year there have been 161 successful tests of the missile, additionally in less than 10 instances range systems that monitor and govern the tests detected anomalies that have resulted in missile self-destruct protocols being triggered as a safety measure.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 05:42 AM

May's latest Message
Headlines in this morning's Times
May (Theresa, not Imelda) has said that "together, Britain and America can lead the world" so she has unilaterally decided to push Britain to the extreme right
I'm sure she democratically sought agreement from her cabinet first (NOT)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 04:15 AM

You are as made as a hatter Teribus -
The debate was about renewing the Trident system
It was reported world wide as renewing the Trident system
No minister or official spokesman has ever contradicted the way it was reported
Your meglomanic claims that the Government and the press are wrong and you alone are right makes you a raving meglomanic - not for the first time.
Tu said exactly the same about teh businessman Bin Laden - the world is mad - only you are sane
Get help
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 04:10 AM

Thanks Teribus and that is precisely the point I cannot get my head around. Yes, I fully understand that the missile and the submarine are two different things and it is the submarine that is up for renewal. But if they do not renew the submarine then surely the missile is useless. Yes? If I am right on that then, even though it is the submarine they are discussing it does have a direct bearing on the missile. A vote to renew the submarine is a vote to keep the missile. A vote not to renew the submarine is a vote to stop using the missile.

Have I got that right?

If so, then surely the fault that the missile apparently developed during the test in question should have been brought to attention of parliament before the vote. If the reliability of the missile is in doubt, then the future of the missile should be reviewed. If the future of the missile is in doubt, then the future of the submarine is too. They are inexorably linked.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 01:45 AM

Unfortunately Shaw I am not the one rattling on asking questions, the answers to which are obvious to anyone who can read, that illustrate just how wrong the media have it with their "Trident renewal fable" - Now just what bit of the following do you not understand??

"she opened a debate about whether the UK should spend up to £40bn REPLACING FOUR SUBMARINES that carry nuclear warheads."

Poor journalism in the form of misleading and inaccurate stories results in a massive disservice to the general public.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: kendall
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 07:38 PM

This is one of the reasons I seldom come here anymore. Mis information is not information at all. I already know how to piss and moan, so, don't need any more lessons.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 06:34 PM

You do realise how insane you sound rattling on about this, do you, Teribus?

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 06:21 PM

Try it from considering that the factual start point is that Trident is not being renewed, it is being retained and what the press has called "Trident renewal" is in fact a debate and a motion passed in Parliament to replace the four existing Vanguard-Class submarines that are coming to the end of their operational life with four new Dreadnought-Class of submarine to carry the Trident nuclear deterrent.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 04:43 PM

Maybe I am not being clear enough. If they were discussing replacing the submarines, and the missiles are no good without the submarines, then logic dictates that they are considering keeping the missiles. Or would they keep the missiles for some other reason? You are not clear on that point and I do not understand why you are saying that the missiles have nothing to do with the Trident renewal.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 04:39 PM

I know what replace means, Teribus, but thanks for answering whatever question you thought I was asking. I just don't understand the difference between replacing Trident and replacing the means to launch them, IE the submarines. If one is no good without the other, how could one be discussed without the other? That is what I was getting at. I don't understand the point you were trying to make but after seeing the interview that Steve mentioned it is blatantly obvious that May is trying to hide something.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 02:12 PM

DtG - grab a dictionary and look up what replace means.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 01:40 PM

What do you mean, "could it be"? 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 01:20 PM

Could it be that like Edward Heath she is a reptile.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 01:09 PM

So, is the trident missile any use without the submarines to fire it from? If not, what is the point of keeping the missile and scrapping the submarine?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 12:13 PM

You are being utterly ridiculous, Teribus. If this is the best you can when it comes to finding something automatically wrong with one of the usual suspects then what you need in return is patronising indulgence with a dash of undeserved sympathy, not an argument. You're missing Keithie, aren't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 11:06 AM

Many of you may have noticed a tactic used by one frequent poster on this site to use semantics about the use of words, commonly understood by the majority, to defer argument away from the actual topic.

It would seem we now have another poster using the same tactic.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 10:15 AM

"Trouble with you, Teribus, is that you see one of our names at the top of the post and you immediately go into auto-find-summat-wrong-at-all-costs mode." - Steve Shaw

Naw Shaw not the case at all - I see one of the "usual suspects" names at the top of a post and I know it will contain the usual lies, half-truths, myths and misrepresentations - your ideology dictates that you cannot help yourselves - I don't have to look for anything, easier than shooting fish in a barrel.

"This is a tactic - he makes an outlandishly stupid statement and we move away from the subject in hand to argue with him - making us as doo-lally as he is.

Theresa May's latest message is that neither the public nor Parliament are entitled to the truth when it comes to spending Britain's taxes on nuclear weapons.

She not only covered up a serious accident in order to get her 'Trident Weapon System' through Parliament, but she lied about it, claiming the test was a "success". - Jim Carroll

Number of points JOM

1: My supposedly "outlandishly stupid statement" was 100% true and factually correct - check Hansard not the newspapers.

2: Theresa May's message? Try every single Prime Minister since the UK has had nuclear weapons in it's inventory.

3: What serious ACCIDENT has been covered up.

4: Any idea what was being tested JOM? YOU have not got the foggiest notion, so like most of your outrageous pronouncements on subjects about which you know nothing, your comments are baseless. But I'll give you a hint it wasn't the missile that was being tested.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 09:08 AM

The Submarines are being built because the Vanguard-Class are coming to the end of their design life - they have now been in service for 30 years and by the time the new Dreadnought-Class are in service they will have been operational for more than 40 years.

"Whether you like it or not, "Trident renewal" is the common linguistic currency now and isn't going away. It may represent inaccurate shorthand to you, but shorthand it is and it conveys clearly enough that we are going to continue to have Trident and that some aspects of the system for delivering it are being renewed (otherwise it wouldn't be costing all those billions). Nowt wrong with that understanding of it, is there?"

1: It is a misrepresentation.

2: It is inaccurate

3: It is misleading as it suggests to the pig ignorant that we are investing in a completely new weapons system to replace Trident

All depends I suppose on what you expect from a responsible press and MSM - I'd rather have them objective and factually accurate, with you it would appear that anything goes no matter how slapdash and untrue.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 08:54 AM

Backwoodsaman is right (again) of course.
We fall for it every time.
Someone who dismiisses the entire press reports (including that of the Nuclear Science Press) and offers his own opinions, is certainly deserving of attention, but not from those without medical qualifications.
This is a tactic - he makes an outlandishly stupid statement and we move away from the subject in hand to argue with him - making us as doo-lally as he is.
Theresa May's latest message is that neither the public nor Parliament are entitled to the truth when it comes to spending Britain's taxes on nuclear weapons.
She not only covered up a serious accident in order to get her 'Trident Weapon System' through Parliament, but she lied about it, claiming the test was a "success".
That is what we should be discussing - and not necessarily with demented Trolls like Teribus
Leave him to impressing his mates dahn the pub at closing time - that seems to e the level he operates at
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 08:40 AM

I think everyone has a valid contribution at times, BWM. There are however occasions on which valid points are lost in invective and the winning at all costs mindset. Still, if we were all the same it would be a very boring forum :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 07:42 AM

Then don't do it, Steve! No matter how correct you are, you won't - can't - win.
It's called 'feeding the troll'...you, Jim and Dave are better than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 06:38 AM

You may as well argue that "gay" should only ever mean "merry." Whether you like it or not, "Trident renewal" is the common linguistic currency now and isn't going away. It may represent inaccurate shorthand to you, but shorthand it is and it conveys clearly enough that we are going to continue to have Trident and that some aspects of the system for delivering it are being renewed (otherwise it wouldn't be costing all those billions). Nowt wrong with that understanding of it, is there? Trouble with you, Teribus, is that you see one of our names at the top of the post and you immediately go into auto-find-summat-wrong-at-all-costs mode. Too bad. Question your own sanity. I question mine every time I'm tempted to respond to you. It's like pissing into a strong wind. It all blows back in my face but, somehow, it never smells like mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 04:18 AM

Serious question for Teribus - Is the trident missile any use without the submarines to fire it from? If not, what is the point of keeping the missile and scrapping the submarine?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May - latest message (Brexit)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 03:22 AM

"Jom, Shaw, just because newspaper reporters get things wrong en-masse does not make what they write the truth no matter how many times they write it."
So there you have it - scrap the newsagencies and come to you instead
Anybody who describes providing evidence as "a tactic" and permanently gets things wrong needs to have a condition named after them - 'The Teribus Syndrome" maybe.
You really are insane, aren't you - and you own a gun..... oh dear!!
Jim Carroll