BS: Executive orders?

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Iains
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 07:37 AM

The linked article gives an interesting perspective on where we are now:-

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/02/01/war-ordinary-americans-paul-craig-roberts/

While much is made of the President's Executive order and the continued play over it's legality, I suspect there are far greater issues playing out behind the scenes. The real issue is who holds the reins of power.
How this plays out in the coming weeks will determine if the Presidency can regain legitimacy. Some would argue it was lost with the assassination Of President John F Kennedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 09:25 AM

There is a war on social justice. Social Justice is held in disdain by neo conservatives.

What is justice? It is the law. It is Presidential orders and Congressional decided law, it is Court consecrated.
Law is man's feeble attempt to set down the principles of decency.
The law is not a deal, an angle, a contract or a bullied hustle.

We know that the President and his advisor are not decent people.
They are rude crass and vulgar at the minimum.
Most of us don't want to know what they are at the worst.
Most Americans are decent people.

The values of Donald Tromp are self, greed and any means to an end which are usually lies. His ideas of law are perverse. They are indecent. So are many of the historic actions of the US.

So we must go ahead perversely and indecently to support our greatest ever President because it is the law.

But it is not the law. Not yet. With enough indecent laws we could be convicted of betrayal, disloyalty, treason and criminalized by the very instrument that was dedicated to the principles of decency.
To obey, to be loyal, to worship the leader who is exalted by law

We can believe the media and the courts are the enemy. We can demonize social justice and justice itself.

We can turn our back on decency and just follow orders.
Most people do.

I can't.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 10:37 AM

It always surprises me that some Americans don't appreciate the whole point of their system is to prevent any one person gaining too much power. If that happens it doesn't much mattwr whether you call thwm King, President or Kaiser. A lot of Trump's tweets are equating his view with the country's view. Another danger signal.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 10:50 AM

Breaking news MSNBC

Russian State Oil CEO offered 19% cut of huge oil deal if sanctions are lifted to Donald J Trump via Carter Page and Trump surrogates.

Proof is from Russian Memos.



This is a big deal.

It is Treason.


As the Russian deal is falling apart there is a death toll of Russian Intelligence officers in the know. 4 treason trials are schduled so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 11:08 AM

look here


Behind the curve
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/1/30/1627621/-19-5-of-Rosneft-Russia-s-State-Oil-Co-Sold-to-Unknown-Parties

Unknown my ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 12:18 PM

DMcG

Stop being surprised.

Did the media really do anything to know the big baby temperament of Trump? No. They merely post human interest fluff over outrageous insults or shocking rude crudeness.

The electoral college required changing the Construction with state by state campaigns at great cost. Once it was discovered the system actually accomplished the opposite of its intended effect of keeping undesirables out of the White House the country was referendum weary and did not undertake the arduous process of repealing the amendment.
The political parties instead used the electoral college to basically stuff the ballot box for only their guy.

The country grew bored with the electoral college.

The due diligence to examine Trump the man as well as ignoring the Russian collusion is also at fault.
After Nixon we promised to take a harder look at what kind of man or woman we make President. How hard a look did we take a look at Trump except for entertainment value. We are locked in a terrible system that produces presidents the public does not want.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Iains
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 12:20 PM

Accusations, but as yet no evidence. If true it could be a very short Presidency, but I suspect it is just slurs from poor losers. If there is any substance to the story it would be mainstream news worldwide. As yet, a deathly hush. The atory is at least a week old and has gained the flight characteristics of a penguin.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 12:29 PM

You speak falsehoods.

There is incontrovertible evidence.
The dossiers are Russian which have been paid for with Russian lives and were announced by the State Oil CEO.

You are on the wrong side of history to defend the greatest Trump 'deal' of all.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Iains
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 12:53 PM

Donuel, I am not going to argue with you. If you are correct proof will be shown and publicised. If not is is slurs and innuendoes.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 01:32 PM

Without argument much more of this story was known of this incident as early as July by US intelligence. It was classified. It is now partly declassified.

We are dependent on both sides of this deal to open it up more.

What this is about is a state owned oil corporation who suddenly says they gave away one fifth of state owned oil profits {perhaps sold) to an unknown entity. This was Russia
why, Who?

merica? Mexico? Mongolia? or maybe a multi billionaire.

We know about Trump's representative named Price and how all this coincides in space and time. Price became a hot potato and separated from the Trump campaign.

We now know who and how much this deal to remove sanctions is about.

There are CIA factions who consider themselves unbound by the Constitution and the business of America is business and want total classification. There are those that want to become transparent.

Trump wants them to shut up.

To put a fine point on this:

The deal now has proof of existence but there is no proof as to Trump's personal cut of the 19% of all Russian oil profits.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 05:54 PM

A healthy skepticism is our best defense against fake news but that's also when we can throw out the baby with the bath water.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 06:36 PM

Just in case Trump hasn't issued enough executive orders to suit you, or hasn't yet issued the one that really rings your bell, you can go to the Trump Executive Order Generator and create your own. You can issue a decree commissioning a monument to the victims of The Bowling Green Massacre, or whatever you like.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 06:45 PM

I thought the Daughters of the Confederacy had put up that monument some time ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 05:05 AM

Dont worry, Donuel, the level of surprise is about that when you realise someone does not know something that you naively imagine everyone (in your culture knows), like finding wonderland down rabbit holes, or roughly where the capital of their own country is. When you meet someone who doesn't, it is a bit of a jolt.

In this case we are not even talking about Trump, but about the basic principles on which America was founded. You would hope Americans know that, so it is always a bit of a shock when you meet ones who don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:27 PM

The appeals court is deciding tonight if Trump should be overturned regarding the ban order.

It revolves around whether or not the order was rational. The administrations' lawyer is making it up as they go along. I think Trump loses this round and the case will go to a lower court.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Airymouse
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 05:05 PM

It is very unusual for an executive order that is unconstitutional to be upheld by the courts, but it has happened. FDR's executive order 9066 seized property of US citizens of Japanese decent and put them concentration camps. Executive orders don't get more unconstitutional than that, but the order was upheld by the Supreme Court.I'm guessing that the circuit court will uphold the stay granted to Washington State et al. and that the case will go to the Supreme Court. Since the court still has only eight justices, there is a chance: if the intent of the order is a muslim ban, that would violate our constitution (I think.) Remarks by Trump and Mayor Giuliani suggest that was Trump's intent, but it will be hard to prove.

Subject: RE: BS: Executive orders?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 12:18 PM

If it ties at 4-4 it goes to the lower court.

Trump's Supreme pick will take a while.