BS: Will Republicans revolt?

Subject: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: meself
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 02:06 PM

Just wondering what our American friends think; presumably they have a better sense of how things work and don't at the top of their country. I assume there are some Repubs who - however misguided you and I think they are - have common sense, some who have backbone, some who actually care about their country, if not the world, and some who combine all of those qualities. Are they likely to do anything to take the reins (and the nuclear codes) away from that madman or are they just going to keep playing along while everything falls apart around them?

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: bobad
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 02:22 PM

This from Robert Reich:

I had breakfast recently with a friend who's a former Republican member of Congress. Here's what he said:

Him: Trump is no Republican. He's just a big fat ego.

Me: Then why didn't you speak out against him during the campaign?

Him: You kidding? I was surrounded by Trump voters. I'd have been shot.

Me: So what now? What are your former Republican colleagues going to do?

Him (smirking): They'll play along for a while.

Me: A while?

Him: They'll get as much as they want – tax cuts galore, deregulation, military buildup, slash all those poverty programs, and then get to work on Social Security and Medicare – and blame him. And he's such a fool he'll want to take credit for everything.

Me: And then what?

Him (laughing): They like Pence.

Me: What do you mean?

Him: Pence is their guy. They all think Trump is out of his mind.

Me: So what?

Him: So the moment Trump does something really dumb – steps over the line – violates the law in a big stupid clumsy way … and you know he will ...

Me: They impeach him?

Him: You bet. They pull the trigger.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Amos
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 04:24 PM

These guys are just effing animals.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 04:42 PM

Republicans are revolting, period.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 07:15 PM

Democrats currently hold 188 of 435 seats in the House of Representatives and 46 of 100 seats in the Senate.

The number of votes required to impeach and convict a President is 218 in the House (to impeach) and 67 in the Senate (to convict).

I think we can safely assume that 100% of those Democrats would vote to impeach and convict Donald Trump, so how many Republicans would need to jump ship to get rid of him?

40 House members and 21 Senators. Not impossible numbers by any means.

Trump just needs to commit an undeniably impeachable offense. He will do so. It's a matter of when, not if.

Assuming he doesn't resign first

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 08:54 PM

Oh, I think his advisers will steer him clear of that. From this side of the big puddle Republicans in general do seem to be a disreputable bunch. However, as time goes on and he gets worse and worse I think many of them will realise what a horrible liability he's going to be in 2020. That could well cause a bit of ship-jumping. But, apropos of impeachment, etc., do you really want Pence instead?

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Elmore
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 09:33 PM

Attn: Steve Shaw. I believe that Republicans who are running in 2018 will see Trump and his dreadful cabinet members as a liability, and will {short of impeachment} abandon him. That may change the configuration of Congress.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 09:52 PM

You could be right. But his hubris could still be going down well with the people for a year or two yet. And you really do have to have something serious to impeach him for! Any ideas? I'm sure there are armies of people working on it!

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 03:01 AM

So the moment Trump does something really dumb this was mooted before the election.

AND Thatcher did just that with the poll tax. The people spoke, the party quaked.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 04:19 AM

Yebbut that was ten years in.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 04:44 AM

We British are more reserved.

Thatcher was strident, it has to be said, but we hear something a lot (I am being British here) more pugnacious right now and a glass ceiling was how Thatcher dealt with women.

Times change!

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 05:35 AM

It will be interesting to see how Americans respond to Trump's promise thet he will "destroy utterly" the laws which forbid religious groups from being involved in elections.
It is heralded as being an "enormous victory for the religious Right"
The Dark Half gather their forces!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 07:34 AM

Had not heard that one but I have been in business meetings all day and it is so easy to fall behind with the news at the moment!

There was a comment above saying he might be impeached if he does something serious. It sounds nit-picking, for which I apologise, but that is not really the criteria. The stuff on religious involvement in election sound perilously close to being in breach of the 1st amendment as do a few other things he has done, which would be very serious but has enough supporters that to impeach based on those would make them furious with the elite over-riding the will of the people. It needs to be something very unpopular like the poll tax. Its seriousness is on many ways less significant.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 08:08 AM

From this morning's Irish Times

TRUMP VOWS TO REPEAL KEY US RELIGIOUS LAW
RUADHÁN Mac CORMAIC
Foreign Affairs Correspondent
US President Donald Trump has pledged to "totally destroy" a decades-old law that prevents churches from getting involved in political campaigns.
Any move to weaken one of the key legal provisions in the United States separating religion from politics, which Mr Trump had criticised during his campaign for the presidency, would be a huge victory for the religious right.
Religious leaders have long complained that the "Johnson Amendment", which bans churches from engaging in political activity at the risk of losing their tax-exempt status, restricts their free speech. "I will get rid of and totally destroy the Johnson Amendment and al¬low our representatives of faith to speak freely and openly with¬out fear of retribution," Mr Trump said at a National Prayer Breakfast, referring to the 1954 measure pushed by then-Senator Lyndon Johnson. "I will do that. Remember." Mr Trump would need an act of Congress to repeal the law.
In keeping with the chaotic and contentious opening to his presidency, Mr Trump used his address to religious leaders yesterday to dismiss concerns about his abrupt phone calls with foreign leaders, defend his immigrant travel ban and mock Arnold Schwarzenegger for his poor ratings since replacing Mr Trump on The Apprentice, a reality TV show.
Immigrant ban
He cast his immigrant ban, which targets people from sev¬en Muslim countries, as an at¬tempt to protect religious liberty, saying it was necessary to up¬hold American values and block those who would "op¬press" others based on faith or lifestyle. "We will not allow a beachhead of intolerance to spread in our nation," the president said.
Relations between the US and Australia were under severe strain, meanwhile, after it emerged Mr Trump had cut short an acrimonious phone call with prime minister Malcolm Turnbull on Saturday.
Potentially far more damaging were claims that the Trump administration had rushed into a botched commando raid targeting al-Qaeda in Yemen last weekend. US military officials quoted by Reuters claimed Mr Trump approved the covert operation, in which one US com¬mando was killed, without sufficient intelligence, ground sup¬port or adequate backup.
The claims were rejected by White House spokesman Sean Spicer.
The paper also includes a report that Trump has dropped sanctions on the Agency which was found to have hacked the U.S. elections - stopped biting the hand that fed them, so to speak
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 08:50 AM

Jim Carroll - 03 Feb 17 - 08:08 AM

From this morning's Irish Times

AND??

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 08:53 AM

Jim's post was probably in response to my saying I hadn't heard about it, Teribus. As it happens, there are two similar issues being talkwd about so it is also helpful for Jim to clatify which he was referring to.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 09:53 AM

"From this morning's Irish Times - AND??"
And what?
I was addressing my remarks to DMcG - I've long decided tat it's a waste of time passing uncomfortable information on to those who regards facts as "made-up shit"
It seems to me that the question of empowering religious bodies despite having adopted a policy that it was wrong to do so is extremely relevant to a discussion on how Trump's Party will react to his continung anti-democratic and unconstitutional behaviour
Are you really suggesting that the Democrats are so far into Trump's pit that they have no regard for democracy and anti-constitutional acts.
"Speak only when you are spoken to" seems as good a way as any to treat your response.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: meself
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 01:06 PM

Thought it was quite clear that Jim's post was in response to DMcG's .....

**************

I'd forgotten about that Robert Reich article. I suppose I lose the argument by saying this, but I can imagine a similar conversation taking place in Berlin, ca 1930: we'll just use this clownish thug for awhile to camp down on the Communists and get things under control, and then we'll get rid of him .....

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: meself
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 01:06 PM

Thought it was quite clear that Jim's post was in response to DMcG's .....

**************

I'd forgotten about that Robert Reich article. I suppose I lose the argument by saying this, but I can imagine a similar conversation taking place in Berlin, ca 1930: we'll just use this clownish thug for awhile to camp down on the Communists and get things under control, and then we'll get rid of him .....

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 03:39 PM

Trump does not have the power to repeal the Johnson Act. He can repeal executive actions taken by previous presidents, but not laws passed by Congress.

Once passed, a law can be repealed by Congress or struck down as unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, but there's nothing the executive branch can do to get rid of it.

All a president can do is use his "bully pulpit" to lobby Congress to repeal the law. A more reasonable president would have phrased it in terms more like, "I will ask Congress to repeal...", but that's not 100% about Trump so you'll never hear it.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 08:51 AM

The religious freedom Presidential order will again make it possible to have a legitimate Holy church of Monday Night Football with full tax free status again. It will allow all evangelists to spend any and all money collected for themselves. Prosperity Christians love that Joel Osteen's new time religion of cash.

''''''''''''''''


Depending upon what people knew and when did they know it Republicans are willing to risk treason charges to keep Trump. They feel safe enough for now.

Four Russian intelligence officers are to be silenced under treason charges of their own. There are probably more scape goats to come.
When evidence finds Tromp unequivocally guilty of collusion with the Russians some Republicans will get cold feet. For now they are in for a penny, in for a pound.

The Republicans will not revolt but they may have quite a few rats run from a sinking ship.

The defense will be "I knew nothing"

The outcome is usually hidden or forgiven.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: meself
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 11:33 AM

According to Rachel Maddow, the Repubs in Congress yesterday voted to rescind an executive order from Obama to limit the access of the severely mentally ill to firearms. I assume some of the Congressmen have been having trouble buying guns ....

Seriously, though - they're even worse than I thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 11:56 AM

Goodness gracious you just obliquely called those ass holes in Congress Crazy!

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 12:21 PM

The Republican calculus on guns and mental illness in a nutshell:

If someone seeks to purchase a gun, he's expressing a desire to protect his family and property. The desire to protect one's family and property is a normal, healthy impulse. Therefore, anyone who wants to buy a gun is, by definition, normal and healthy, not mentally ill.

Got it?

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: meself
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 02:27 PM

I got it! Yeah, yeah, makes perfect sense! [Backing away slowly ... ] No need to get worked up, we're all in agreement here - wait - is that the ice-cream truck I hear?

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 06:25 PM

And you really do have to have something serious to impeach him for!

Really? My understanding is, you just need the votes in Congress to do it. The rest is a matter of Public Relations.

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 06:49 PM

Nonetheless, there would be no motivation to impeach a president for anything other than serious breaches of the law. The chances of conviction for anything more trivial than that would be nil and the complainants would be vilified for being vexatious. Remember, no US president has ever been convicted on impeachment. I imagine that Trump has an army of panic-stricken advisers preventing him from overstepping the mark to the extent of inviting impeachment. Of course, there could be something in his
past...

Subject: RE: BS: Will Republicans revolt?
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 05:43 AM

% of American voters' pie chart 😀