Folk Songs to Ditch

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Susan A-R
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 01:38 AM

This is quite a thread. It's interesting to me that when Joan Baez and the Indigo Girls sing "Don't Think Twice" I don't mind it so much. I haven't heard or sung "jMichael" in years, so I don't greet it with the same level of horror. My current work schedule (11 hour days in the kitchen) does make it difficult for me to sing with other folks, so I guess I'm not so picky about repeats. I'd sing almost anything with almost anyone in order to be able to harmonize (I sing a Lot in the Kitchen but it isn't the same without harmony.) I'm also really curious about finding ways to work up old familliar tunes. For example, some of us have found that "Swing Low" and "Ezekiel" fit together nicely, as do "I saw Three Ships" and "Bring a Torch"

There is a lot of material I'd hate to throw out with the RUS (was that Rats of Unusual Size??) I'm particularly fond of "Oh Had I a Golden Thread" "Sally Gardens" "Willie O Winesbury" "Chat With Your Mother" "Lads O' The Fair" and "In Your Daughters and Your Sons."

I DO have a hard time with singer/songwriters hitting me over the head with their oh-so-clever images, in=depth navel examination (I didn't know navels were that LARGE) and/or ultra political correctness without humor, poetry, or intelligence. It's always made me very nervous about singing anything I've written.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 03:12 AM

OK here are my nominees 1The Unicorn. This song is true vomit fodder."Humpty-backed camels" for Christ sake. 2Where are you going my little one. They ran this behind a Kodak ad years ago on tv until I had to cover my ears and shout obscenities to drown it out.3 I'd like to teach the world to sing. Another commercial craw-sticker featuring hundreds of happy robots holding hands and singing and trading bottles of coke4Ballad of the Green Berets. This one had it all..God, Country. Death. Fearless men who jump and die. GET A PARACHUTE!!! 5 Eve of Destruction. Other side of the coin from the Berets, but just as loathsome.This guy had the nerve to rhyme "red China" with "Selma Alabama" 6 Green green grass of home. The definition of maudlin tripe. Another great rhyme- "Padre" and "daybreak" 7 Houses Made of Ticky Tacky Now here was some condescending, repetitive, lets-sit-in-the-coffeehouse-and-make-fun-of-the-straight-people garbage. Seeger (not Bob...Pete) should serve 10 to 20 in a tract home outside Cleveland for that one. 8 Sunshine on my Shoulder...or was it Annie's Song. Bet this was a contributing factor in John Denver's divorce.9 A Man needs a Maid. This was almost redeemed by the hilarity it engendered in all who heard Neil Young sing it.Was he seeking a housekeeper? 10 The wreck of the....well you know the rest. You could hear the beginning of this on the radio, get out of the car, have lunch and the damn thing was still stumbling on like the inevitable onslaught of a large wounded animal. ......of course,take all this with a grain of salt. I was nuts about MacArthur Park

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Garry
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 09:36 PM

To Alan of Australia and Alison, I would ditch most of them particularly the Irish and English ones

Cheers

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: bbelle
Date: 17 Jan 99 - 01:18 PM

I would have to vote for 500 Miles, Lemon Tree, and Where Have All the Flowers Gone. The Baez Ring Them Bell CD put a new slant on several old folk tunes which I found refreshing. There are a few "folk" songs which I have refused to sing and some others are definitely overdone, but I've been doing this for 30+ years and when I first heard them or sang them, it was great. So, maybe a few of us are jaded with a bit of the old stuff, but what about the "new" generation of folkies? It's new to them ... allow them the pleasure of the experience. They'll tire soon enough of singing/playing them, too. And ... every 4th of July my father's family congregates for a week in Morehead City, NC for the annual family reunion. We do all the kids' things during the day and at night we gather together at one of the cottages and sing and play music. We do a lot of the old stuff, including 'Will the Circle Be Unbroken because all the aunts and uncles are in their 70's and 80's and love to sing along, etc. Isn't that what this is all about ... sharing? Believe me when I say I'm neither a maudlin individual, nor am I steeped in nostalgis, but the cynicisn is wearing on me. jenny

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Stubs
Date: 17 Jan 99 - 07:02 PM

Don't ditch any! If you are sick of it (usually because of overexposure)then turn it off if you are a listener , re-work it if you are a player. There is nothing better than hearing a new twist to an old standby, especially if you are hoping the standby will lay down and die!

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Cuilionn
Date: 18 Jan 99 - 12:40 PM

I cannae believe "Scotland th' Brave haes nae earned mair vitriol than twa oor three mentions... Th' rest o' ye hae ne'er suffered thro' an entire day on some blisterin'-hot fairgroond durin' th' Highland Games, listenin' tae twenty-hunnert blastit pipers playin' it up, doon, sideways, an' taegither in terrifyin' degrees o' unison an' lack thereof. An' th' few guid pipers whae avoid it oot o' some deep moral fortitude are bound tae hae some Braveheart-T-shirt-wearin' eejit walk up wi' liquid refreshment in hand, askin' them tae play "The Old Spice Song..."

Th' mere SICHT o' "Carrickfergus," "She Moved Thro' The Fair," oor "Athenrye" on a cd oor cassette label is eno' tae mak me drop a recording back intae th' bin an' run screamin' frae ony music shop. "Danny Boy" wis INDEED wrichten in Tin Pan Alley an' I ance tortured a piper friend in a moment o' deviltry by playin' it on th' theramin at a children's museum in front o' her. If her young son wisnae there with us, I'm sure she'd o' murdered me richt then an' there. Noo, I'm basically a gourmand an' willin' tae endure muckle tae spread th' gospel o' what music can dae for folks, but tho' I cringe tae admit ma ain snobbery, I'm layin' it doon richt here for a' tae see. An' I'm muckle obliged for th' opportunity!

This may be a wee bit obscure, but if I gae tae ane mair Gaelic-only ceilidh whaur folk are singin' "Fear a' Bhata," (The boatman) I'm gang tae find th' puir sot's wee boatie an' drill holes in it. Ane o' th' women in oor circle wrocht a parody called "Fear a' Bhainne", ("The Milkman") which wis hysterical.

Yirs amang th' guid, bad an' ugly,

--Cuilionn

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Richk
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 04:19 PM

I gotta throw my 2 cents (anyone need change?) in and say it's the singer more than the song.

One of the great lures for me to folk music is its context and spontaneity. When I was a teenager pouring over bad rock and roll albums, the point was to attempt to recreate the song note for note on guitar and spill it back to an audience. You were proud if someone heard you playing and thought it was a Pink Floyd record.

With the folk tradition, as a performer, you go on stage and are full aware that a lot of people in the audience would've heard a certain song time and time again. As a performer, you're forced to make the song your own in some way. You think about the song and you think about where you are. Then you start to play and what happens in that time and place is you converse with the audience, musically, and, at least in the Irish pub scene, the audience usually feels pretty comfortable responding to what you're doing in a real and immediate sense.

I remember as a kid hearing my extended relations break into Danny Boy after a wedding and then again after my grandmother's funeral. In those two instances, I heard two very different songs.

At the end of a wedding, it marks a necessary and inevitable break with the past with some hope for a redemptive future. At the end of a funeral, well, it's the end of a funeral. In both moments, there were tears and toasts and some swaying around the room.

I also remember the first night I played in NYC with an Irish trio. I was nervous; it was my debut with a somewhat established outfit and I was still learning a few of the original songs they were writing.

The first two sets went ok. We were all still getting to know each other, so we were more concentrating on the music more than the crowd. I had no idea how we were being received. At the end of the night, exhausted but happy, we broke into The Wild Rover.

I will never forget the moment we hit the chorus and the whole room started clapping and then singing along. Anyone holding a beer bottle crashed it down on the table. It was a grand craic.

So there you have it. The times I've really been turned off by a song have been the times I've heard it sung without an appreciation of the context or its meaning.

Folk songs cover the full range of human experience and emotion. Some singers might not appreciate that at times. I've heard "Cerrickfergus" sung as an upbeat song (my friend first thought the line was "I wish I was in Kerry Fergus" because of the upbeat rhythm). If a singer thinks he/she absolutely HAS to sing "Charlie on the MTA" or that one about the Scotsman winning the blue ribbon just because the bar has a neon shamrock in the window, then you're probably in for a pretty dull evening.

By the way, the only version of Lakes of Pontchatrain(sic) I've ever heard that didn't make my skin crawl was by Christy Moore. Seems like the author could've shortened us the lyric a whole bunch...

Rich

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: John In Mendocino
Date: 30 Jan 99 - 01:19 AM

Anybody ever heard of the song "Rosie's House of Sin" about a bordello near Fresno? Or how about some sort of ditty with the words "Hirsute Syndicate" ??? Thanks

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: heidi
Date: 30 Jan 99 - 01:50 AM

I don't know if this is classified as "folk", but I HATE "To All the Girls I've Loved"!!!!!!! Who is this Julio Ugliasias anyway?

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: alison
Date: 30 Jan 99 - 02:45 AM

Hi,

It's not folk. But in my book most things by Julio Inglesias are right up (or should that be down?) there with Joe Dolce's "Shut up a your face.", and whatever that truly awful Ren and Renate thing was that got to number 1 in the UK.....??? "Save your love my darling, save your love...."

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Craig
Date: 30 Jan 99 - 04:40 AM

Well! I can't believe I read the whole thing. Aaack! Thud! Personally I think I would like to ditch this whole thread for about 10 years. There are a lot of good songs that have gone bad and a lot of bad songs that still hang around. They all have one thing in common. Somewhere someone still likes them. So enjoy and God Bless.

Craig

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: katmuse
Date: 30 Jan 99 - 12:38 PM

Great humorous thread, but Amen, Craig!

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,Sean McR
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:47 AM

I'vejust come onto this thread, and have seen, and read some very coherent statements. Also some tongue-in-cheek ones. My personal opinion is that, as a professional Irish folk singer, you have to give the paying public what they are asking for. Otherwise I'm back to another form of work. The "best ditched category" will never really be fully decided, but will continue to grow, almost exponentially. And I agree that the overexposure of a good song will merit inclusion in the 'ditch' list. Whilst back home in Ireland, I played with a group that gigged 4 nights a week; and every night we'd get at least 4 requests for Willie McBride/Greenfields of France. The song itself is a good one, (Thanks, Eric), but the overexposure kills it. Two more quick points: 1-(for Alan in Australia) Edmund Fitz came along before Back Home in Derry, just see Christy Moore's "Ride On" album, he gives credit to Gordon Lightfoot on the liner notes. 2- IRA ballads, like most Irish music, relate a particular event in Irish history. If you listen, you'll understand. Thanks for listening, Slan go foill ('bye for now) Sean

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST, Banjo Johnny
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 04:04 AM

Golly! All my best stuff has just been 86'ed. This leaves me with: We Shall Overcome, What a Friend We Have in Jesus, Red River Valley, You Are My Sunshine, and Home On the Range. And my big finish, Aloha Oe.

Does this mean I should learn new tunes?? == Johnny

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: pastorpest
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:18 AM

There are a lot of great songs here that people are currently weary of. Good songs with good melodies and good lyrics that stimulate heart and mind are simply going to come back and back. There can be too much of a good thing.

I know that there is an explosion of singer/songwriters around and from this explosion good songs emerge. But my beef is with all the singer/songwriter songs that have neither lyric nor melody worth a tinker's damn. There have been folk festivals spoiled for me by overdosing on such dribble. The one good thing about these songs is they are instantly forgettable and have a built in self-ditching quality.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Midchuck
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:36 AM

What pastorpest said.

Peter.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,Ann Singleton
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 12:02 PM

As an Ilkley person, I can say that the abolition of our so-called Yorkshire anthem might at least liberate those of us who are shy about singing (especially about singing awful songs) from having to play the "token Tyke" every time a particular type of cringe-making compulsory "folk evening" starts up. It's the equivalent of being forced to do Scottish country dancing at school.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 12:03 PM

Guantanamera is a real drag to hear when done badly by North Americans who only know 3 verses of it. It's a joy to hear when done well by Cubans who know probably 50 verses of it (they're always making up new ones...).

They have even composed some humorous verses for it. You need a good translator to get the joke.

Is "Leaving On A Jet Plane" a folksong? If so, bury it in the deepest hole you can find.

"Don't Think Twice, It's All Right" is in some ways a strikingly honest song...although very politically incorrect in these times, and even in its own original time...that's one reason why I like it. Then too, it has some brilliant lyrical and musical passages in it.

The song was essentially about Suze Rotolo, Bob's very serious girlfriend in the early 60's ("the true fortune teller of my heart"). She is pictured on the cover of "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan", walking down a New York sidewalk with Bob. People who knew them at the time remarked on how absolutely happy and close they were, but the relationship deteriorated as Bob's career escalated. That often tends to happen. It's hard to say who cared more...Bob or Suze...but it is evident that they both cared a great deal. Most of the love songs on Bob's first 4 albums are about Suze. They range from worshipful to wistful to angry to despairing. "Boots Of Spanish Leather" is one of them.

Has anyone heard Joan Baez sing "Don't Think Twice" with the Indigo Girls? What a fantastic rendition!

Baez, by the way, infuriated Suze at some big festival (Newport?) by introducing the song onstage and saying something like "This is a song about a relationship that should have ended some time ago" (I may not have the wording dead on...but that was the general gist of what she said). Suze stormed off...she suspected Bob was involved with Joan, and she was right.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,Airto
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:19 PM

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,Airto
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:27 PM

Sorry, Littlehawk

I don't know the Joan Baez version of Don't Think Twice. But the Four Seasons version is a masterpiece. It has Frankie Valli singing in his highest falsetto, the backing group echoes the line endings, and there's a doop oopy woop chorus at the end. Does anyone know what Bob Dylan ever thought of it?

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:22 PM

Haven't heard the Four Seasons version, but Johhny Ashe has probably got it in his record collection...he's got everything. I'll see.

The Joan Baez version is on a recent CD where she does duets with a number of younger female folksingers of the present era.

The CD is called "Ring Them Bells" (after the Dylan song), and was released by EMI in 1995. It's great.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Rollo
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:26 PM

My favorite to ditch is not a folk song to ditch but folks ditching a song.

Everytime I try to sing "the wild rover" like I want to sing it (a little bit sad because having thrown away my life so far and now trying to make it better)the drunken crowd starts to howl and cheer and spoil it.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 12:44 AM

You're singing it for the wrong audience, Rollo. You had best do it at a song circle of folkies where there is no alcohol on hand, methinks.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: celticblues5
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 10:52 AM

Ben -
I'd agree with any Irish song sung in CW style, but I'd have to expand it a bit - to ANY song sung in CW style, including CW songs. ;-)

But, sorry, still love Maids When You're Young, Wild Rover (yes! - done wistfully), Broom of the Cowdenowes, Wild Mountain Thyme, & Wild Colonial Boy - guess I just don't get to hear them as often as some (honey, I live in IOWA - I don't get to do much of ANYthing as often as some).

Have to agree with hating Waltzing Matilda, Bottles of Beer on the Wall, Teach the World to Sing, Wedding Song, & Happy Wanderer.
Don't know of anyone who ever sang Green Berets SERIOUSLY (just the circles I run in, I guess).
I am kind of sick of Mattie Groves - but I think that's because everyone I ever heard sing it in person learned it from the Joan Baez songbook, & it's just the same old thing again & again, and no one would DARE CHANGE ONE WORD. By contrast, I could listen to Christy Moore's version (Little Musgrave) over & over & over.....(what a difference the right version/right voice makes!)

I don't think The Unicorn is a terrible song - I just got personally sick of it after, having sung it ONCE to cousins I was babysitting, being forced to re-sing it about a google times every time I sat with them. I don't know any kid who doesn't love it.

Agree with ditching those maudlin, supposedly Irish things like When Irish Eyes Are Smiling & all those ditties about "me auld mither."

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Mbo
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 11:02 AM

Definately, "I'll Tell Me Ma". I'm still convinced that the obscure lyrics are really a strange cover, waiting to be pierced to discover the true meaning. Maybe Prof. Freud could help. BTW CB, you didn't seem to object to me singing country music last night on HearMe.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,mickeymeboy
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 02:07 AM

ANYTHING from Peter Paul & Mary

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Rincon Roy
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 10:12 AM

Just remembering the first time I heard a straight, non-parodied, non-apologetic version of Home on the Range, Pennies from Heaven (with full intro strain), Melancholy Baby, even Ry Cooder's version of Maria Elena...

I couldn't believe they were the same songs/tunes as the tired old hackneyed worn-out, ragged and torn versions I'd always heard. Finally understood why they have lasted all these years.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: LR Mole
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 10:38 AM

Yeah...a stray quote from O. Wilde just surfaced in my stew, here. He said it about parents but it's just as true of songs, especially those that toouched us: At first we adore them; then we despise them. Rarely, if ever, do we forgive them.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 10:59 AM

Oh, my. Ain't that sad, though. There's a lesson to be learned here somewhere.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,Meadow Muskrat
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 11:40 PM

My friend Pete used to give out the Annual Wayne Newton Song award-that level from which you can sink no lower.Some winners included Tighten Up by Archie Bell and the Drells,Everyday People by Sly Stone,Groovin by the Young Rascals, and two time winner You just keep me hanging on by the Supremes and Vanilla Fudge.I'm not sure which version was worse-Diana Ross's speeded up high pitched voice or the melodramatic cover by Vanilla Fudge.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Aug 00 - 01:34 PM

"a song circle of folkies where there is no alcohol on hand" - is such a thing possible?

I've only skimmed this thread. But most of the songs I've seen mentioned are great songs, it's just that they get sung all the time by people who bounce along on the service and don't think about what they are singing.

It's the distinction between singalong and a singing circle. The singalong approach is about novelty and having a jolly time and that. A singing circle is about bringing out songs that mean something to you, and sharing that with other people.

Hearing that done with a song you thought was hackneyed and dead can raise the hairs on your neck. And it's nothing to do with the musical quality of the voice of the person singing it eiter, it can happen when some shy person with a minimal voice suddenly opens up and sings a song you thought you hated, and you realise you'd never really listened to it before.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,Rich(stupidbodhranplayerwhodoesn'tknowbetter
Date: 27 Aug 00 - 03:46 PM

Most of my answers have already been taken.
The Unicorn
Rocky Top
Tell me ma
Danny Boy (note to Jerry who defended the Londonderry Air; It's a beautiful Irish harp tune, but the lounge act song set to it was written by an Englishman living in Chicago.)
If I could submit a tune it would have to be The Irish Washerwoman (Hollywood's soundtrack tro nearly every pub scene!)
And while I like the Wabash Cannonball, I'd like it more if I heard it less!

Rich

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: jayohjo
Date: 27 Aug 00 - 07:20 PM

A lot of objections seem to be to songs that have been hugely overdone - a VERY fair point. However, as an 18 yr old, it's not always obvious what songs were overdone 20-30 yrs ago, and thus are now 'unacceptable' or at best laughable. I hear a song that i like, learn it because to me it is fresh new and most of all a good song - but i sing it in public and its not ok.

ho hum, that's the way it goes i suppose!

jayohjo XX

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Aug 00 - 07:48 PM

Don't pay any heed to the smartarse bastards, jayohjo. Songs don't wear out, they get better as they get older. That's what's supposed to happen to people, but it doesn't always seem to work for the first few decades anyway.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Mbo
Date: 27 Aug 00 - 07:56 PM

Jo, I thought the exact same thing the last time we had a thread like this "Songs Banned at Your Folkclub". It made me made that all the old folks were dissing songs as overplayed, and I had only just learned them, or never even heard of them! And the same goes for the pop songs as well!

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Troll
Date: 27 Aug 00 - 11:28 PM

When me rambling days they are over,

And the next of the rovers has come,

He'll take the old songs and he'll sing them again,

To the beat of a different drum.

The Roving Dies Hard by The Battlefield Band

Matt and Jo and anyone else; learn 'em, sing 'em and the

world be damned. If you genuinely like a song, sing it

because you may have a different take on it than anyone

else. But do it your own way. I, too, have become a litle

jaded with the Joan Baez version of Matty Groves.

troll

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Ely
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 11:23 PM

Thank God "Rocky Top" isn's a folk song (Felice and Boudleaux Bryant, 1967?)

I've never liked "Old Joe Clark", "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face", or that one about the Goodnight-Loving Trail, which doesn't really make much sense. "Home on the Range" can go and so can "Ground-Hog".

I like the Hedy West version of "500 Miles", with the plucky banjo accompaniment (not my favorite method of banjo-playing by any means, but it has more life and less self-pity than some other versions).

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Serf
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 11:47 PM

Maybe i am lucky.. i am getting exposed to enough new singer songwriters.. acoustically inclined.. that the occasional time an old folk standard is revived.. it is with a bit of pleasure... especially if the version has a nice twist to it.. None of this sentimental grace is extended to.. John Denver tunes.. but then no one has dared.... Lightfoot.. ( as a Canadian.. we get more exposure) If I could walk 500 miles.. i would have ..just to escape that song. Toronto friends on their honeymoon cruise had a New York couple as table mates.. who chose a night of rough weather to suggest that my friends must be used to stormed tossed seas.. seeing as you come from the country that gave us.. the SINKING OF THE ELLA FITZGERALD : ) sadly true.. as i picture her going under ... scat singing...

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,Airto
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 12:40 PM

I'd be happy to ditch all that clumpy, predictable and simplistic Germanic alpenstuff. I'd drown all those bierkeller bands in pils.

And as I did so I'd like to sing Hi diddle ha ha ha

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST, Banjo Johnny
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 01:25 PM

There is no more Country & Western.

There is just rock-n-roll with cowboy hats.

== Johnny in Oklahoma City

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Kim C
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 11:45 AM

Well, since Music City doesn't have any song circles or pub sessions that I know of, I don't generally get tired of some of these songs y'all are talking about 'cause I never hear them. But from the standpoint of a living history musician, I am sick to death of The Only Hymn Ever Written - Amazing Grace. Yes, I love the song. I really do. And I love the story behind it. But for cryin out loud, can we not do Rock of Ages or There is a Fountain Filled With Blood or Something Else PLEASE?!??!! There were a lot of other hymns besides Amazing Grace in the 18th-19th centuries. And if I ever hear it on the bugpeeps again I think I'm gonna HURL.

Londonderry Air is one of my favorite melodies ever. Since we can't sing the words for reenacting purposes (since Danny Boy wasn't written until AFTER the Civil War), we will sometimes play it as an instrumental. The tune all by itself is very moving.

We also have begun leaving Dixie out of our set, except when the SCV or UDC ask us to play at their functions. We'll do it for them because they expect it. But we've pretty much cut it out because any idiot can sing Dixie. If we include Southern patriotic songs, we're more likely to do Bonnie Blue Flag or Southern Soldier Boy.

If we could get more gigs up Nawth, we'd include some Yankee songs too. :)

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Burke
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 12:17 PM

Kim C, I bet Rock of Ages was lots more popular than AG in the 19th century as well.

Do your re-enactors a favor & insist on the 19th century version of AG instead of the one we all seem to know that's from @1909. And leave off 10,000 years that's also a late addition.

Here's New Britain in 4 parts as first published.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Burke
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 12:20 PM

Oops! Make that 3 parts. They did not believe in altos at the time.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Kim C
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 01:50 PM

That's a good question, Burke, and the answer is, I don't really know. I guess we sing the more common modern version because it's what everyone knows. Did they sing it to Gilligan's Island in the 19th c?!?

Great, just what I need - another research project! :)

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 02:37 PM

Songs to ditch? Each to their own, really. I must admit songs like 'The Fields of Athenry' make me feel nauseous.

I can't quite put my finger on why, but the sentiment doesn't quite ring true. The words are somewhat contrived...

Okay, words of songs need to be contrived to make them fit a tune/metre, but there is a point where the song becomes more important than the sentiment.

On a different tack, has anyone got the words for Ted Edwards' parody on Waltzing Maltilda/Rochester? I think the first verse went:

Once a jolly swagman camped by a Goolagong A long way from Rochester, I'm sure you'll agree, And he sang as he watched and waited, squeezing Billy's boil Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me?

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 02:45 PM

Worronearth happened to the formatting? I put line breaks in, honest!

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Ely
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 02:58 PM

Rock and roll, nothing--we should be so lucky. It's just POP music with cowboy hats.

Anybody else from Texas? Remember the Dixie Chicks way back when?

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,Aidan Crossey
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 09:36 AM

Hard to disagree with anyone's rants in the above. Glad to see that The Fields of Athenry got a mention. If I ever hear that song again ...

Glad to see also that The Wild Rover has been trashed a number of times. Reminds me of a time when I used to attend what was billed as a folk session in Camden Town, North London. In fact the "session" was an opportunity for a pretty loose confederation of musicians to play as a band for half an hour or so and then invite others to take the floor and play two or three numbers to the assembled miserable buggers who'd paid two or three quid to witness the sorry debacle. (The effect was so surreal that I used to go regularly and treat it as a bit of a comedy event.)

Anyway the "band" used to round off the evening with a few tunes to which they invited members of the audience to contribute. One of the tunes was always "The W*** R****" and till the day I die I'll never forget the band's guitarist peering over his glasses to his songbook for the chords and, even then, having to halt progress from time to time to get back on track. (And, if memory serves me right, they played the tune in F! Who in their right minds ....)

Another song which they massacred was "Sweet Betsy From Pike". I don't want to come within ten miles of that ditty again!

And while we're on the subject their stop-start version of "Bill Bailey" was a hoot!

Perhaps this "band" ought to log on to this thread, vaguely learn all of the songs which people would like to ditch, and host a nightmarish evening where they play them all really badly!

While they're at it they could include in their repertoire some of my other all time least favourite songs such as:

Ride On (a low point in Christy's career) Star of the County Down ( ... such a coaxin' elf, indeed!) Boys from the County Armagh (I'm from the place myself and therefore on my infrequent visits home have to be subjected to the song down the local pub ... Oh God!) Kevin Barry (especially when "crooned" by some red-faced drunk to whom the whole bar has to "give a bit of order") Any "funny" song sung by the likes of Val Doonican such as Paddy McGinty's Goat or Phil the Fluter's Ball (believe it or not I have heard such songs sung in public ...) "The Rose of Mooncoin", "The Banks of My Own Lovely Lee", "Limerick, You're a Lady", "Slievenamon", "Avondale", "The Bard of Armagh" And finally I'd like to be able to pass sentence on the person responsible for reviving "Living Next Door to Alice" and making it a staple at every Irish "singalong"!

.... Aidan Crossey

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,Aidan Crossey
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 05:08 AM

And while we're on the subject any sentimental song about parents (A Mother's Love's A Blessing, Mother Mo Chroi, SIlver Haired Daddy Of Mine, Gentle Mother) or dying children (Put My Little Shoes Away, Jeannie's Afraid Of The Dark) or kindly folks explaining a parent's death to a small child (Mother Went A-Walking Son).

Fetch me a bucket!

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 08:30 PM

Bottom line is, as Dick Greenhaus has pointed out, no songs should ever be ditched, and none ever will from the DT.

Somewhere in my head is a list of songs I am likely to sing in the near future, and songs I am likely to avoid singing. Everyone else has an equivalent list. Thank God they aren't all the same list.