terrorist stuff going off in London

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 08:46 AM

"Sort of Last of the Summer Rants.
WE must love one another, or die "
Doesn't hold out much promise for future debates
Why not try addressing some of the points made rather than wallowing in ageist insults
Your own contributions don't inspire thought or hope
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 08:06 AM

one day when you were out Ake, we voted you to be Compo - the loveable homophobic rogue in wellies, secretly bitter at his rejection by Norah Batty.

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 08:01 AM

"i think the problem is that you always go off on this tangent Jim - blaming it on England's imperial past, and foreign policy"
If you believe that bm accusations are unjustifuied Al, you are quite in order to disprove them
You have not long proved them to be the case by suggesting that our interests as Britons come before the the rights of to poorer people of the world and that there is nothing wrong with selling weapons to despots "because we are a trading nation"
You were even more specific in linking these sales to "jobs and votes" - an argument that provide fuel for terrorists.
If those seeking a better life can't rely on Britain, who do you think they'll turn for support?
No prizes, I'm afraid.   
"These are the threads in which we should be committed to full debate, no holds barred."
Bit hollow from somebody who refuses to debate because he is "too busy"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 07:57 AM

Ake ....get real!

WE are not going to save anyone.
WE are a gang of elderly men, rather puzzled by the state of the world.
THe experts on here....Keith, Teribus and Jim give it a sort of poignancy.
Sort of Last of the Summer Rants.

WE must love one another, or die - the poet said.

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 07:50 AM

From someone who puts it far better than I can.

The first wave of a terrorist attack is the use of violence to instil fear into ordinary people as a threat to their leaders.

The second wave involves no personal intervention from the terrorist at all, but occurs when the fearful turn into the hateful and continue to propagate panic. It's not an exaggeration to say that hate-mongering is playing into the hands of terrorists. Terrorists don't risk their own lives 'just' to kill a few innocents; they know that they will become the Patient 0 who will spread terror like a virus.

They're trying to force all-out war. That is their end game, not isolated attacks here and there.

We can't always stop the first wave, but we can help to prevent the second.

DtG

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 07:27 AM

It was you who got the last thread closed, along with many others, ake. Try not to do it again here. I am not advocating silence. They only way to address these issues is to talk but the discussions must go somewhere rather than just laying the blame on one group and demonizing them. Just look at how things went with the IRA and other groups in Ireland.

DtG

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 07:00 AM

Sorry Al......cross posted there, I was of course addressing Dave's platitudes.

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 06:54 AM

Bullshit! Condolences are not going to save the next batch of innocents.

These are the threads in which we should be committed to full debate, no holds barred.

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 06:52 AM

i think the problem is that you always go off on this tangent Jim - blaming it on England's imperial past, and foreign policy. I suppose its something you've picked up in Ireland - what is it Flanders and Swann said - blame it all on Cromwell.

All the evidence really points in a different direction. these characters last night - they weren't part of a network - they made up phoney explosive cannisters to tie round themselves. they obviously didn't have access to the real stuff, or the committment to find out how to do it on the net.

this is about young people totally alienated by society. what would you rather be a fuck up, or an urban terrorist? i suppose as a career opportunity, it offers some sort of dignity.

the other thing is you always accuse people of being racist, which is very unpleasant. it was the same with the grooming thing. these are obviously problems that the Asian brit community have within them, and they need to look at the causes. just as much as the RC church needs to deal with their many problems.

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 06:39 AM

Just to clarify. We are far from at opposite ends, Jim. I just do not believe in trying to score political points on human tragedy and it was not your post that got me to withdraw.

I can and often do accept and give serious comments but this is not a thread to wave ones political flag or flex ones debating muscles. It should be to try and build bridges, not more walls.

In my opinion.

DtG

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 06:25 AM

Jim, do you not hate the ideology that drives these people to commit mass murder on helpless people and children?


"It is equally permissible to attampt to seek an answer to the reason for these killers behaviour"

The Home Sec. said on Peston it was "radical Islamic terrorism."

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 06:24 AM

"It is equally permissible to attampt to seek an answer to the reason for these killers behaviour and, where applicable, accept responsibility rather then ignoring or denying evidence of that responsibility"

Absolute bollocks, these shits do not deserver the same air as us.

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 06:22 AM

"having someone hate you, isn't as bad as them killing you...is it?"
It wan't my point Al
Hate generates hate, hate without qualification has no point - you discuss the reasons - pretty fully and weighing up all the aspects in the case of terrorism
A clarification for Dave
I have resolved not to become involved in Keith's black-holes any more - dosn't man I'm not going to respond to what he says or stands for, just that, in future I will do my best not to allow it to take over
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 06:17 AM

'Hating alone makes you little different that the killers'

i dunno bout that. having someone hate you, isn't as bad as them killing you...is it?

theres audiences and theres audiences.... no ones killed me, as yet.

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 06:16 AM

"I see it has started already. Sorry, I am out of here. "
You're don't really believe that the fact we find ourselves on the opposite spectrum of politics proscribes us from commenting on each other's stance do you
Your attitude in stoppig such comments is somewhat proscriptive itself
If you can't accept serious comments Dave, perhaps it's just as well
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 06:03 AM

I see it has started already. Sorry, I am out of here. :-(

DtG

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 05:50 AM

"Is it permissible to express hatred of the killers,"
It is equally permissible to attampt to seek an answer to the reason for these killers behaviour and, where applicable, accept responsibility rather then ignoring or denying evidence of that responsibility
Without that, these discussions would be little more than meaningless exhibitions of crocodile tears - some people are past-masters of those
Hating alone makes you little different that the killers
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 05:49 AM

Absolutely, thank goodness these terrorist bastards were dealt with finally and professionally. Our thoughts go to victims and their families.

Crikey, even Corbyn referred to them as terrorists!!!

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 05:04 AM

Re. keeping thread free of hate.
These are hateful acts.
Is it permissible to express hatred of the killers, their ideology and their fanatical supporters?

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 04:39 AM

True enough, COBRA and all that. That leaves some 600 odd other candidates. Why should they stop?

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 04:33 AM

Government politicians have other responsibilities during a crisis.

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 04:26 AM

"I thought this..."

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 04:08 AM

I that ugh this during the Manchester attack but didn't say it. This time I will. We are in the middle of an election that will set the course for the UK for decades, including what is happening to Scotland and Northern Ireland. Stopping the campaigns puts too much undeserved power in the hands of the terrorists. It would be better if the parties agreed to a day of commemoration soon after the election, but if people are saying we need to carry as normal, we have to do it, not allow the terrorist to set the agenda.

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 03:41 AM

My thoughts are with the victims and their families. Please keep this thread free of the hate and posturing that got the Manchester one closed.

DtG

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 03:19 AM

I don't suppose it helps but know that you over there are on everyone's minds tonight.

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 11:10 PM

3 asilants shot quickly dead by police..

doesnt sound slow or painfull enough..

..and im an effin softy liberal lefty...


by uk standards....

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 10:49 PM

hate is taking over compassion and understanding..

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 10:48 PM

not really...

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 10:34 PM

U guys ok?

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 10:04 PM

... mind you though... Im still a pacifist....
a bit like jezza...


red button bollocks.. break their necks... grab their knives and rip their balls and arsehole apart...

..before the coppers turn up..

sorry officer.. his knife seemed to enter his arse while i was strugling to disarm him...


thats my own labour party policy on terrorists..

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 09:35 PM

old blokes like us ae imagining how we would rugby tackle and break their necks and spines
whilst keeping them breathing for the police...

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 09:19 PM

sorry should be in bs section

---

Got it.

Subject: RE: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 08:52 PM

Sanguis Christi

Subject: terrorist stuff going off in London
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 08:48 PM

reports coming in now. very confused or is it a big gang fight?