BS: Baseball Practice Shooting

Subject: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 06:17 PM

The NRA chickens coming home to roost.

Isn't so much fun when you're on the receiving end, is it Congressman Scalise?

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 08:16 PM

Research has found that if you carry a gun,
the odds of you getting shot go up four fold. The NRA said a good guy with a gun prevented a massacre.

It is sad the famous racist Congressman from Louisiana will become a hero by default.

It is even sadder that all outspoken liberals will be cast in a light of being an insane radical killer and mortal enemy.
It only takes one.

When Congressman Gabby Giffords was shot in the head and others killed, the speaker of the house was silent and absent from all memorial functions.
Not so for Paul Ryan today. "An attack on one of us is an attack on all of US"

The baseball incident today for Democrats is a gun issue and a time to come together.
For Republicans it is proof of the violent anti American left and a time to unite.

Can you name all the US presidents who died with bullet wounds, healed or not? Now compute the odds.

My advice is to turn up the humor and dial down the violent rhetoric.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 08:41 PM

Zealots on the fringes, right or left, are a problem if they have poor judgement and no filter. This is easily illustrated by the man who did the shooting, then the announcement by Trump that that man had died. What the fuck is Trump doing making such announcements, except that it brings it all right back to him? The shooter may have felt aggravated beyond reason, but shooting is never the answer, no matter what your party.

It is about guns and mental illness, but the NRA and the GOP will sidestep that, even though victims were their own party. You can take that to the bank.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 09:50 PM

You need good gun laws. Laws that focus on people is where you have to start... I repeat, start.

Wait. Oh dear me! I just remembered the gun threads here from years ago. THOUSANDS of posts. Over and over. gnightgnu. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 02:49 AM

This may be the act of one nut case, but the attitude is widespread, and is indeed an attack on democracy.
The hatred of the President by "liberals" who supposed that they would win easily is palpable ....even on this forum.......think on and think hard.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 06:48 AM

well, what are you suggesting Ake - that people should not be allowed their thoughts?

Theresa thought she was going to win easily. thinking that is an innocent enough thought. its allowed.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 08:08 AM

Lofty speech and solemn pledges should be said by many. Such as "We must tread lightly with one another and make permanent change. Once again the obvious must be said and heard even unto deaf ears".

Just like after the Sandy Hook massacre of 6 year olds, promises were made for good but NOTHING was done by Congress.

Alas, nothing will be done again.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 08:26 AM

Big Al do you see the grim fake news light that Ake casts upon this tragedy already?
Ake, the Non American Un-American Anti America said:

"the act of one nut case...by liberals"

Ake, will you meet me face to face?

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 09:10 AM

June 17, 2016: "Jo Cox, 41, a lawmaker for the opposition Labour Party and a vocal advocate for Britain remaining in the European Union, was attacked while preparing to meet constituents in Birstall near Leeds in northern England."

The act of one nutcase by...conservatives.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 10:03 AM

You can count on Rap to see through historical eyes.

Our last best immediate hope will be for the US Senate to rediscover the wisdom and practice of statesmanship.

Recently the Senate has been a Royal Court full of intrigue to suck up to the King or risk a charge of treason by tweet. IMO it is the suck ups who are committing treason. Its up to Mueller to prove it unless the King fires the troublesome police.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 11:02 AM

Don, why do you feel the need to twist everything I write?

I did not write..." act of one nutcase by "liberals".

I did write "The hatred of the President by "liberals" who supposed that they would win easily is palpable ....even on this forum.......think on and think hard"

Address what I say, do not twist my words.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 11:21 AM

Try to remember that plenty of "conservatives" (REAL conservatives) hat Twitler as well, Ake.

As do the majority of people in the world outside the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: meself
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 11:39 AM

I disagree - I just don't see all this "hate". A great deal of harsh criticism, much well-deserved contempt, but hate? Naw.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 11:58 AM

Also remember, Ake, that a majority of U.S. voters "hated" him BEFORE he "won"....

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 12:23 PM

Is the US love affair with Trump a bit along the lines of 'hate-sex'...???

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 01:15 PM

If so it is time for makeup sex, pfr.

I gave thought to Ake's request. I do not have a need to twist his words but I do have a need to seek the truth. When someone says something in the same breath I see the Gestalt of thier ideation. He can say he doesn't see the whole of his own statements but I do not believe him.

Some have nothing to lose with another US civil war. Some have nothing to fear from the 90 gun deaths in America per day on average. Further more some do not passionately care.

While I had hope people could evolve, Some remain an internet troll.
Worthless, harmful, uncaring, unsung, shunned, unmoored and un-mourned.

"Yet tomorrow is another day."
J. Lennon

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 01:58 PM

The root of the problem is not guns. I'm not saying guns aren't a problem, but the main thing at the bottom of it all is the fact that there are psychos who think it's OK to kill people they don't agree with.
Trump fanned those flames, and it doesn't much matter that he was on the side of "conservatives". Ake fans those flames, but just about everybody here who comes for the blood sport do as well. Perhaps there will come a time when we stop feeding the hatred and anger, and look for common ground and solutions. I don't have any faith that it'll happen at Mudcat, because the disdain here doesn't kill anybody's children. I do have some hope that something will change in the world as a whole. Not much, bot some.

Sides don't matter. This is obvious when there are people on both sides who kill. We need stricter gun laws here, but we need to figure out the reasons for the guns, the bombs, the knives. (I'm guessing a big part of it is the press coverage. Five minutes of fame.)

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: meself
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 03:12 PM

Anger at the world. Blaming the rest of humanity - or, alternatively, a sub-section of humanity - for your failures and frustrations.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jun 17 - 02:21 AM

I am traveling and I can't figure out from my phone what this is about. I heard a Congressman got shot. What has this to do with baseball?
Joe

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jun 17 - 03:17 AM

Don, forget the stilted rhetoric, if you have a view, put it plainly so that we "worthless people" may know who we are. By your reckoning there should be about seventy million "Un American"/ "Anti Americans" in your wonderful country.

In my view you are an arrogant, pompous and self righteous person and a bit of a bully into the bargain.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jun 17 - 03:26 AM

So, Ake, are you saying it is un-American to despise Trump, un-British to oppose May?
Un-German to oppose Hitler?

Trump is despicable. The fact that he was elected by a manipulated minority vote, does not change that. He is nonetheless despicable. What does this have to do with baseball?

Joe

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Jun 17 - 06:38 AM

The congressman and others who were shot were practicing for the annual Democrat/Republican baseball game at a field in Alexandria, VA.


CNN

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jun 17 - 08:31 AM

baseball is un-english... at least that much i understand about un-ism...


oh.. and cricket is un-anything interesting and exciting...

... don't want to sound like a nationalist xenophobe.... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jun 17 - 08:08 PM

ha ha
I am actually an un-nationalist. My point is that I see the violence and discord in America up close and personal compared to a Scottish highlander making assumptions about the Trump effect in the USA.

It seems Trump has a real Snatch 22 in his hands. :^)

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 01:35 AM

I believe we are in a new age of hate and fear. I primarily blame Republicans such as Gingrich and McConnell who have fostered an era of denigration and stultification.
BUT:
We have been here before. Nixon was roundly hated. So was LBJ. Reagan was not hated so much, but he did get shot.

Obama got out alive. He did not even get shot. So far, so good. I am willing to grant Trump and his also-rumps the same favor.
What happened at the DC Republican baseball practice was horrible, and although no one but the perp got killed, Scalise was horribly wounded.

We are still deep in the woods.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 02:25 AM

As my last post has been removed Joe, I would say in short that to politically oppose and to despise are two very different things and I would suggest that the latter is un-Christian.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 04:42 PM

Some of us didn't think much of Obama either. Presumably it's ok to call trump despicable for his policies ......   He ain't no saint as they say , but no need to use degrading language.   People get accused of hate speech for far far far less !

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 08:13 PM

Trump is an unmitigated inexcusable despicable piece of shit- because of what he IS, what he has done and what he continues to do.

Nixon and Reagan are penny ante clowns compared to Trump.

Its a difference in kind, not in degree.

"Un-Christian"?? don't make me laugh - or puke.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: ripov
Date: 17 Jun 17 - 08:50 PM

It is terribly difficult to single out those responsible for any mishap.
Our Theresa May was abused by those who suffered from the fire at Grenfell tower. She had (as far as I know) no part in the disaster. But the conservative adminisration - that she represents - did. And as the representative of that opressive regime, she was held responsible.
That's how people (we?) see things.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 03:32 AM

The hatred we see here is ideologically based, the President represents opposition to the unwritten political bible of the "liberal Left".
An ideology which has seen the weakening of the US as a World power is under review and its adherents are running scared.

The abuse of MRS May is an echo. As you point out ripov, the tragedy had nothing to do with Mrs May personally or politically but harks back to successive governments and councils both Labour and Conservative who have pursued "liberal" political and social policies with little regard to future problems.......The mantra of "electability" has ruled for too long.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 09:19 AM

The hatred [of Trump] we see here is ideologically based...

Ake, your same old bullshit mantra- give over. Trump is a despicable piece of shit for what he is, always has been, and does.

The despicable collection of "Tea-Party" Republicanbillionaires he aligns himself with are just the fascist icing on the cake.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 09:49 AM

Here, Ake, read THIS.

Might incline you to appreciate reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Baseball Practice Shooting
From: JeffB
Date: 18 Jun 17 - 10:36 AM

Well, Ake, of course hatred for a political leader is ideologically based, almost by definition. But of course you can also hate someone who, for instance, uses a position of power to grope women, or makes racist remarks, or outrageous statements on scientific matters for which he isn't qualified. But I suppose it's possible to hate a leader while respecting his/her policies and vice versa, and perhaps people who have lived under more extreme Left or Right regimes have experienced this.

As I don't live in the USA I don't fully understand your 2nd sentence. Do you mean the US has been weakened militarily as a world power? If so, you seem to be at variance with Mr Trump's own international policy, which in his campaign speeches was consistently non-interventionist. I thought the "Make America Great Again" slogan was about economic revival, and one important part is supposed to be in bringing the big corporations to heel in the matter of tax evasion. "How I love the little guy" was something he said in one speech on the subject. Of course, being part of the 1% who control over 90% of the planet's wealth (perhaps someone has a more exact figure), he himself is part of that problem, but no doubt the little guys who voted for him will push the congressmen/women for early action on tax evasion and will expect to see US trade figures and employment figures going up next year.

I am always a bit baffled by references to "liberals" who are trying to destroy Liberty or the American Way of Life or something like that, which is what I assume you mean by your reference to the unwritten political bible of the liberal left. If it's unwritten and you are not yourself a liberal (I don't know what the opposite is - an authoritarian?) how do you know what it is? You must admit it's always a rather vague accusation. Can you be more specific and define for a Brit (and I have to proudly admit that I regard myself as a "liberal", though apparently not the same sort that you have in mind) just what this destructive liberal Left agenda is? I'm rather disturbed that "liberal" has become a term of abuse in the US, and even more so that it is also becoming an insult here in the UK. Surely liberal ideals should be respected and promoted, not opposed and undermined. I assume that even though you despise "liberals" you also want to uphold the Constitution of the Republic. Personally I think your Constitution is one of the greatest and most important documents ever written, but I have to remind you that it was written by liberals. You can see why I am a little confused.

Mentioning politicians who have little regard for future problems, I think Mr Trump is being accused of just that by pulling out of the Paris Agreement. You might disagree with him on that, so let's not go even more off-thread on climate change, but I'll just say that democratic systems have an in-built flaw by making long-term strategic decisions difficult or even impossible. Non-liberal governments such as China are much more stable and consistent in that regard. I suppose all you can say is that short-term political thinking is one of democracy's downsides.

As to Mrs May's spot of bother lately (and goodness me, we are going way off-thread, but hey-ho, this is Mudcat) I should first of all point out that whatever started the fire at Grenfell Tower it had nothing to do with "liberal policies" or any other political beliefs, at least as far as I can see. The local Conservative Council approved for the building to be clad in inflammable material for cosmetic reasons and did not put a sprinkler system at the top of their refurb programme. No doubt the inevitable, protracted, and completely powerless Public Enquiry will reveal more in time, but for now cladding and sprinklers are established facts. The disaster seems to be more about mistakes made by the local authority than anything else, and try as I might, I can't see any trace of either liberal or conservative policies there. Perhaps that just underlines that I don't really understand what (some) Americans mean when they talk about "liberal" values.

I do agree that Mrs May is getting undeserved flak over the tragedy. What a London borough decides to do in refurbishing its housing, or how a major disaster is handled, is really a matter for the local authorities, not central government. As a Labour voter, I do think that the (Labour) Mayor of London has some questions to answer, but so far he seems to have been able to duck responsibility. But then, I'm not a Londoner and haven't been following events very closely, so perhaps I've missed something.