BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later

Subject: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jun 17 - 10:04 AM

It has been decided to prosecute six people involved in the Hillsborough tragedy - better late than never, I suppose
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 17 - 01:23 PM

It's a shame that f*****g Murdoch can't also be prosecuted, in his case for hate speech in The Sun. Let's hope that all those evil bastards who changed police statements and slandered the fans get chucked in jail as well as the moron who was in overall command. And why not throw the key away. Some of the bereaved and victims may eventually get some justice, but many victims and family members have died in the last thirty years, many prematurely, and they'll never see justice.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 17 - 02:21 PM

Very good news indeed. May be late but it will show that people really do have the power to bring those who thought they were untouchable to task.

I also second the sentiment about Murdoch.

The Scum is just an arsewipe of a newspaper. In fact, I would not sully my arse with it. The only people I have ever seen supporting it and justifying its gutter tactics have been on here.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jun 17 - 09:17 PM

Justice delayed is justice denied.

Still it's something. The important thing is, will the present day successors learn the right lessons. And let's hope it's not just "if you screw things up badly enough there's a chance that 30 years on you might be in trouble, if you're still alive."

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Amos
Date: 29 Jun 17 - 12:21 AM

I live in Hillsborough--North Carolina--and I have no idea what you gents are on about. Consideration, and context, s'il vous plait!

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Jun 17 - 04:01 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jun 17 - 04:13 AM

I was home in Liverpool when the Coroners verdict was announced last April - I can never remember being moved so much at the mass response of those gathered outside St George's Hall that day
Where my sisters live, the local people have outlawed the sale of The Sun for 28 years since that gutter-level article was written
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 29 Jun 17 - 05:38 AM

more info here
www.google.com search ...prosecute+six+people+involved+in+the+Hillsborough+tragedy

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Jun 17 - 05:41 AM

what i can't understand why they are pissing about with these public officials who had the unenviable job of dealing with the situation created by the bloated bastards in charge of these football clubs.

they surely bear ultimate responsibility for the organisation of this event.

its not an industry which is short of money. they can always raise the money to pay for some superstar football player. they could easily have created a decent and safe environment for the fans of their game.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Jun 17 - 06:19 AM

I suppose that police lying grotesquely about fans' behaviour, falsifying evidence and spreading total untruths probably deserves some "pissing about" - wouldn't you say?

They may have had an unenviable job at the time, but their greatest sin was to tell gross and unforgivable lies to cover up their own abysmal behaviour at the time and thereby slander a whole city.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Jun 17 - 12:30 PM

i suppose so.

still it amazes me that the enthusiasm remains undiminished for these football clubs from which all this shitty incident emanates .

what the cops did - well its a sideshow. if it had been easy to do the right thing - they probably would. they were incapable and covered it up - made matters worse.

meanwhile the villains and initiators of the evil act will be getting cheered this and every saturday - and free from prosecution.

i think it sucks.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jun 17 - 12:14 PM

Just a small point, Al. The two teams were playing at a neutral ground, one that had long been used for FA Cup semi-finals. It pays to direct one's contumely at the right targets.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jun 17 - 02:21 PM

well actually - all three teams bear responsibility.
its their fans that finance all their antics and bids for glory.

the least they could do is organise events in a way that ensured the safety of their customers.

blaming all the poor sods who've got the job of picking up the pieces once you've made a mess just goes on too much in our society.

think of all the overworked social workers who get it in the neck every time some vicious bastard kills their kids.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Jun 17 - 03:17 PM

A word to the wise, and to newly relocated Mudcatter Amos.

If you don't want to lose any sleep at night,
then DON'T view the following:


"To Be A Somebody," a series of, was it, three episodes of a BBC detective show called "Cracker."
Jimmy McGovern, I believe, wrote the scripts,
putting fictitious Liverpool characters
in a position to react to the real-life Hillsborough deaths
and to the real-life coverage in The Sun following the incident.

Robbie Coltrane, whom you will know as Hagrid from the Harry Potter movies
and Gimli from the Lord of the Rings movies,
starred as Fitz, the "cracker" (breaking difficult cases) detective.

These television episodes were broadcast more like twenty-three to twenty-five years ago, rather than thirty years ago.
People are still talking about "To Be A Somebody" all these years later,
it was a viewing experience that no one could forget.

The Liverpool character, Albie Kinsella,
grieving the unexpected death of his father,
is caught completely off-guard by the Hillsborough affair,
especially the smear journalism in The Sun.
He literally goes mad,
and by the time he is confined to a cell,
he has killed several times.

An up-and-coming actor named Robert Carlyle made a name for himself
in the role of Albie Kinsella.

You have been warned.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jun 17 - 04:27 PM

Well a lot's been done to improve both the comfort and safety of fans since 1989, a lot of it as a consequence of Hillsborough. You are clearly virulently anti-football, Al. Well, though I know there's a lot wrong with the game, it gives a lot of pleasure to millions who are not by any means all brainless, gullible morons. Don't let your footie-hatred get conflated with an I-told-you-so attitude to a tragedy. Almost as many people are killed on our roads every week as died at Hillsborough. Would you close our roads? How about banning all aIr travel as a consequence of the latest air crash?

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 17 - 04:09 AM

An irrelevance to the main thread but it was John Rhys-Davies who played Gimli in LOTR.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: banjoman
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 05:33 AM

I can not understand how the chief constable of south Yorkshire was ever appointed as similar on Merseyside.
The real crime of course is what happened after the tragic incident. The lies and attempts to discredit Liverpool fans to say nothing of changing police statements.
There is a history of how major sports events were policed in south Yorkshire and the removal of an experienced officer for disciplinary reasons less than a month before the disaster to be replaced by Duckinfield who had no such experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 02:36 PM

i'm not anti football. i just think, the clubs involved and the venue should have organised it so that no one got killed.

the coppers probably didn't do anything right. and they certainly shouldn't have covered up evidence.

however i think, the lion's share of the blame should be on the shoulders of the people who perpetrated this cockup - saving themselves a few quid by not doing it properly.

and i can't see any of them in the dock. instead we seem to be attacking the poor sods whose job it was to pull their irons out of the fire, and didn't do a good enough job.

it seems a glaring injustice. can't understand why anyone else can't see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 03:33 PM

Al, the families' 28-year campaign was to get the truth. They were told that Liverpool fans picked the pockets of the dead. They were told that Liverpool fans urinated on the police. The victims and families were demonised by a "newspaper." Not one person in a position of authority at the game challenged any of that. It suited them to see the blame deflected. Police statements were altered in order to shift blame from the police on to fans. Lies were told about the management of the crowds entering the ground at the beginning of the match. There was a tidal wave of untruth and misrepresentation washing over distressed families, as if losing loved ones wasn't bad enough. It took 28 years to wring the truth out of people whose main concern was to cover their own arses. During that 28 years, many of the bereaved died, often prematurely, often as a direct result of the disaster. They went to their graves knowing that the truth still lay hidden and that justice had not been done. Because of the lies, dozens of families have had their lives ruined. I think that is incontestably obnoxious, inhuman and downright disgraceful. And a lot of the people responsible are the "poor sods" you mention.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 06:27 PM

have you ever had a job that was undoable?

i think theres a lot of people in that situation.

most of them reach retirement having failed utterly to have achieved anything. shifting blame , covering up, talking bollocks about non existent achievements are endemic - the pursuit of power without responsibility.

this lot got caught out.

i'm not minimising the suffering such duffers cause. but i can imagine many of the bosses i've worked for buggering things up, getting totally out of their depth, and casting round for others to blame and villify.

Aren't we watching the same thing over the Grenfell tower job? someone somewhere was responsible for testing that inflammable stuff :saying it was saleable quality.. the fault doesn't belong to the council chiefs.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: leeneia
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 11:14 PM

From the Wikipedia article linked above:

"The Hillsborough disaster was a human crush at Hillsborough football stadium in Sheffield, England on 15 April 1989, during the 1988–89 FA Cup semi-final game between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest....The crush occurred in the two standing-only central pens... Shortly before kick-off, in an attempt to ease overcrowding outside the entrance turnstiles, the police match commander, chief superintendent David Duckenfield, ordered exit gate C to be opened, leading to an influx of even more supporters to the already overcrowded central pens."


A human crush -people pushing shoving hurrying, each one wanting in. The crowd getting uncontrollable so fast nobody could think. When one person does this, it's bad manners. When thousands do it, it's tragic.

We don't have social strategies for coping with thousands of people being naughty. We can deal with lone criminal, gangs and organized crime, but not with thousands of people committing a misdemeanor at once.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillsborough nearly thirty years later
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jul 17 - 06:28 AM

from the sound of that the ground was too small to accommodate everyone who wanted to come.

couldn't the two bosses of the football clubs work that out.

i used to gig all round Hillsborough - on an ordinary match day the roads around were all choked up right up to the motorway turn off. unless things have changed in the last ten years - the whole place is a no go area. Right down Rushby Road. A gig on Saturday - you had to add forty minutes to your travelling time. You don't see many cops around. i think in a way - its too big an area . too many cops would be required to police that. i think maybe they just wait for the madness to subside - like all of us.

if you compare say to Aston Villa or Derby where you are dead near to the express way and the motorway.

the fans were relying on these guys to know their business.