BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Aug 17 - 07:01 PM

Thank you, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Aug 17 - 07:09 PM

No shaw the thread was about halal meat. I believe you went out and bought yourself a soapbox to stand up on and pontificate about totally separate issue of annimal welfare, transportation, and conditions in abbatoirs.

I think I raised the larger and more important animal welfare issues before Steve did. So try pontificating at me.

Threads are about whatever their posters want them to be about. The pseudonymous thing that started this thread has a track record going back years of posting disgusting white supremacist little-Englander racism on this forum. So of course it wasn't concerned about animals when starting the thread: the whole point of it, for that vermin, was to abuse Muslims and motivate other people to discriminate against them and subject them to violent attacks. It's a dog-whistle issue which has been used by the fascist right in the UK to bully Jews and Muslims since before the rise of Hitler.

My intention in taking the thread in the direction I did was to say, fuck that, go to Stormfront if you want an audience for that crap - let's see what happens if we take your professions of concern for animals at face value. And the thing hasn't come back to comment in any way about the much more significant cruelty issues I've been talking about. It doesn't give a shit about the suffering of animals.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Aug 17 - 07:42 PM

" if you think that Iain's arguments on this forum are intelligent and well-educated, well either you don't read his posts or you're his doting auntie."

"I do indeed read his posts Steve. For instance, on the Charlie Gard thread, Iains provided a most interesting reference to another case of unnecessary resuscitation involving a policeman; a case which gave another perspective on the discussion."


...easy....

Iains is capable of posting intelligent, researched, meaningful contributions...

Inanes just posts confrontational right wing invective...

It just depends which one of these multiple personalities is occupying his head at any time he is posting at mudcat...??? 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Aug 17 - 08:13 PM

Good on ya, Jack!

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 05:21 AM

A wider perspective:As far as the UK is concerned the last 30 years has seen a huge increase in legislation concerning food safety and animal welfare. This has mainly been driven by EU legislation. Many years ago I was able to put a couple of pigs in the back of a landrover and drive 5 miles to a local smallholder/butcher who processed much of his own meat.2 Days later I could pick up a couple of boxes of processed meat including virtually everything but the squeak. Today the increased legislation has destroyed all but a few of the old traditional abbatoirs. leading to large factory scale enterprises, created by the additional costs required for compliance. As a result animals travel further to slaughter houses. Not ideal but increased vigilance for food safety comes at the price of probable increased stress for the animals due to vastly increased journey times. (although even this is regulated)

Despite comprehensive legislation, inspections and controls, some abuse does occur, hence the call for cctv surveillance.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/farm-animal-welfare-during-transportation

https://www.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/foi-approval-slaughterhouses.pdf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1191286.stm (old but useful history)

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20150401003646/http://www.food.gov.uk/enforcement/monitoring/meat/reviewofmeatcontrols

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/welfare-of-animals-at-the-time-of-killing


http://www.oie.int/en/for-the-media/editorials/detail/article/the-role-of-the-veterinarian-at-the-abattoir/

https://www.gov.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=102135&p=0

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 05:35 AM

Are you sure this isn't about your dislike of Islam?   Not sayin', just wonderin'...
What a weaselly cur you are shaw to make totally unsubstantiated allegations like the above.

I do think the moderators should make a stand on shaw's racist remarks.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 06:54 AM

If you're really worried about halal, don't eat meat.   But don't come here pontificating about it unless you're prepared to pontificate about the widespread mistreatment of animals in general

I pay extra for organic milk, meat and eggs because the animals are reared in more natural and humane conditions.
That gives me the right to pontificate.

If veterinarians say Halal slaughter is less humane I believe them, and I want to have the choice as with "free range" "organic" "corn fed" etc.

Why do you want secrecy about it Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 07:15 AM

I would advocate the opposite of secrecy. All meat products should be clearly labelled as to how the the animals were treated during their life and how they were slaughtered at the end of it. Maybe even have videos taken from the CCTV that has been suggested playing at the butchers. I would then only purchase products from animals that had been treated to all the best things in life and slaughtered with love and tenderness. Or, better still, only eat animals that want to be eaten such as the Ameglian Major Cow.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 08:52 AM

Dislike of Islam...???

Basically... I don't like any religions or strict authoritarian cultural / political orthodoxies...

I wish they'd all pack up shop, release their followers, and vanish into history...

But that ain't ever gonna happen...

I'd like less hypocrisy from meat eaters, all animals are potential meat products.. including your beloved horses, cats and dogs.. even me and you...

Veggies and Vegans deserve respect to a great extent, but they are not without failings, and can be obnoxiously strident in their self righteousness...

I want best quality meat at the lowest prices I can afford.. so can't be too blind to the worst practices of the global meat industry...

Let us meat eaters not kid ourselves all our meat is from completely ethical [or non criminal] humane sources...

..and while we are carping on about animal cruelty.. spare a thought for carp in central & Eastern European street markets...

I'm off for a Tesco ham sandwich..

It looks like real ham at 3 or 4 quid a pack .. but I'm not convinced... 🤔

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 08:58 AM

I'd also like an easier way to put one word in italics when I'm just waking up...

ahem...

I'd like less hypocrisy from meat eaters, all animals are potential meat products.. including your beloved horses, cats and dogs.. even me and you...
Veggies and Vegans deserve respect to a great extent, but they are not without failings, and can be obnoxiously strident in their self righteousness...

I want best quality meat at the lowest prices I can afford.. so can't be too blind to the worst practices of the global meat industry...

Let us meat eaters not kid ourselves all our meat is from completely ethical [or non criminal] humane sources...

..and while we are carping on about animal cruelty.. spare a thought for carp in central & Eastern European street markets...

I'm off for a Tesco ham sandwich..

It looks like real ham at 3 or 4 quid a pack .. but I'm not convinced... 🤔

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: bobad
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 09:00 AM

.....it is not "Islamophobic" for someone to criticize everyday conservative Islam generally and Islamism in particular. On the contrary, criticism is a prerequisite for any lasting reformation within Islam.

Kacem El Ghazzali
Writer, activist, IHEU representative at the UN Human Rights Council

Huff Post

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 09:36 AM

In the meantime acts of cruelty such as this seem to pass without comment from those who would have us believe some other religions are barbaric :-(

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 09:40 AM

Dave's link is about bull fighting in Spain and nothing to do with any religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 03:44 PM

I don't know Keith. I know nothing of Foios, but Pamplona which it imitates is a different matter, and that is a celebration of the festival of San Fermin. It begins with a benediction before rockets are fired and the bulls are released. Not much which happens in Spain is nothing to do with religion. That is a legacy of Franco.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 06:52 PM

"I pay extra for organic milk, meat and eggs because the animals are reared in more natural and humane conditions.
That gives me the right to pontificate."

No it doesn't, you bloody hypocrite. It gives you the right for us to call you a pompous, self-righteous, holier-than-thou, sanctimonious, middle-class, smug git. Who gives a flying shit whether a turd like you has the extra disposable income that is not enjoyed by tens of millions on disability benefits/unemployment benefits/zero hours contracts/minimum wage/bogus self-employed/bogus apprenticeships/totally insecure employment? I hope your bloody organic nonsense gives you bellyache. Twat.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 07:39 PM

might be interesting to google "is organic meat cruelty free "...

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 08:12 PM

If veterinarians say Halal slaughter is less humane I believe them

But Professor, are those LIVING veterinarians? Are they MAINSTREAM veterinarians? Are they EMINENT veterinarians? Are their books available in regular high-street bookstores?

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Iains
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 04:08 AM

Greg Your last post is simply provocation as you obviously have not bothered to read the previous links and the professional standing of the vets is quite obvious even to me.(a mental midget according to your tame acolyte jimmie.) However you just carry on doing what you and the rest of your ferrety little friends do best. We all know who they are.

Anyway below you can check out the standing of the vets and with a little effort you can understand what they say.

http://www.vetcontact.com/en/pdf/fve_ritual_slaughter.pdf


https://www.bva.co.uk/News-campaigns-and-policy/Newsroom/News-releases/BVA-calls-on-Government-to-end-non-stun-slaughter-on-day-


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britains-top-vet-sparks-controversy-with-call-for-ban-on-slashing-animals-throats

http://www.fve.org/news/position_papers/animal_welfare/fve_02_104_slaughter_prior_stunning.pdf

http://www.eurogroupforanimals.org/gaia-obtains-landmark-ban-non-stun-slaughter-flanders


https://lawyerssecularsociety.wordpress.com/2013/10/24/ritual-slaughter-whats-the-beef/
>

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 04:37 AM

Steve, your post is just personal abuse.
How many more decent members like Sen are you people going to drive away with your nastiness?
It is you people who should go so that Mudcat could be a nice place again.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 04:42 AM

Returning to the subject Steve, why do you want secrecy about how the animal was killed.
It is hugely important to Muslims, and they need to know if it is Halal or not.
People who prefer other methods also have a right to know.

We put other information on food labels, so why not that?

What is wrong with honesty and openness?

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 04:44 AM

No word on the list I provided earlier then, Keith?

Shaw the simple reason that I would like to have the meat labelled as halal is that 20% of halal meat is slaughtered without prior stunning.
Perhaps if you read the links you also could be aware of this salient point.
I assume you are either a vegan or complete hypocrite.
...

So gnome you feel you know better than the FVE. Can you state your qualifications for such a statement or are you simply blowing smoke as usual?
...

Shaw you can use google as well as I can. Do your own homework!
...

D the g do you actually read what is posted?
...

well shaw and gnome lets have some of your counter arguments with the scientific evidence to support it. Chapter and verse if you don't mind. Interesting how you twist the argument.

Or does that not count as nasty personal abuse because it is not directed at you?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 05:11 AM

Dave,
No word on the list I provided earlier then, Keith?

I did not think you were being serious Dave.
Of course there is a sensible limit on the amount of information that can be put on labels.
Just because you can not say everything does not mean you must say nothing.

To know if the meat is Halal is of vital importance to millions of consumers, and of interest to millions more.
That is not true of anything on your "list."

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 05:19 AM

My list is the one at 04 Aug 17 - 04:44 AM. No idea which one you are referring to.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 05:23 AM

That was a justified direct attack on your naked hypocrisy, Keith, not personal abuse. You never can face the truth about yourself, If you want praise for buying your organic stuff, go and buy yourself a halo. While you're at it, you might just care to check how some of your organic stuff was actually reared and where it came from. I bought a bag of organic spuds last week that came from Israel.

And what's this twaddle about "secrecy" you keep accusing me of? You really are a tedious, vexatious man.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 05:25 AM

Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 04:44 AM
No word on the list I provided earlier then, Keith?

That list Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 05:26 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 06:52 PM
No it doesn't, you bloody hypocrite. It gives you the right for us to call you a pompous, self-righteous, holier-than-thou, sanctimonious, middle-class, smug git. Who gives a flying shit whether a turd like you has the extra disposable income that is not enjoyed by tens of millions on disability benefits/unemployment benefits/zero hours contracts/minimum wage/bogus self-employed/bogus apprenticeships/totally insecure employment? I hope your bloody organic nonsense gives you bellyache. Twat.

I enjoy well-reasoned, articulate debate.

The above posting totally fails!

Television may choose to prepare us for programmes with "Strong language". It is a misnomer. The type of language above is weak language. It is used by those without the wit to articulate themselves clearly without the use of invective and swearing.

I think I shall take the example of Senoufou, and leave this part of the discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 05:28 AM

Steve,
That was a justified direct attack on your naked hypocrisy, Keith, not personal abuse.

Of course it was personal abuse. It was very abusive and I said nothing to deserve such a nasty personal attack.

And what's this twaddle about "secrecy" you keep accusing me of?

I thought that you objected to Halal meat being so labelled.
Do you or don't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 05:48 AM

The list is in the posting of 04 Aug 17 - 04:44 AM and is a repeat of one I posted earlier. What has it to do with labels?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 06:22 AM

Go and boil your head. You have no reason to think that I have an opinion on that one way or the other.

Too bad, Nigel. He said that his purchasing of organic food gives him the right to pontificate. Well I don't think it does, frankly, and I think it was a pretty stupid thing to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 07:00 AM

Steve, this is the reason I believed you to be against labelling.

Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 31 Jul 17 - 12:38 PM
"Any meat offered for human consumption where the annimal has not been stunned prior to slaughter should be clearly labelled as such in my view."
Should it really now.

You went on to list a whole lot of things that are not added to labels.

That gives the clear impression that you do not agree with labelling Halal.
Please clear up any confusion.
Do you or don't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 07:04 AM

Dave,
. Maybe rather than a statement of whether the meat is Halal or not it should be a required certification that the animals did not suffer unnecessarily during the process?

How would that help Muslim folk who need to know that their meat is Halal?
Why not just label it?

You went on to say, " yes, it should be clearly labelled as Halal or Kosher. "
I agree.

What do you think Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 08:11 AM

I suggested labeling to give people a clear idea how the animals were kept while alive and how they were slaughtered. If they were slaughtered in accordance with Halal or Kosher rules it would say that in how they were killed. Do you agree or do you not think that everyone else is entitled to know what they are eating?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 08:12 AM

Oh yes, I'll clear up the confusion for you all right. My post had nothing to do with whatever opinion I may have about food labelling. My post was about the hypocrisy behind the suggestion that a method of slaughter should be indicated whilst all the outrages concerning animal welfare throughout their lives should be given a pass. The clear sentiment behind the suggestion was anti-Muslim. Hope this helps. Now just clear off, will you, you vexatious man.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 08:18 AM

You can't just keep telling him to clear off, Steve. You are sounding like him to me on the Labour party thread :-) Sorry, just had to point that out.

See, Keith. I do not always support Steve.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 08:48 AM

I sincerely hope that you're not trying to lose, Dave...

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 09:08 AM

So should Halal meat be labelled as such, or not?
It can hardly be simpler!

Trying to get a clear statement of opinion from you two is like pulling teeth!

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 09:35 AM

"So should Halal meat be labelled as such, or not?"

I don't care.. if it's meat... I'll eat it

I couldn't give a monkey's what religion the butcher and abattoir workers are..

I'm more concerned that the meat isn't actually monkey, or other endangered illegal bush meat..

or horse falsified as beef.. [if I fancy horse on my my plate, I'd ask specifically for it..]

or condemned diseased meat passed of as fresh..

We had enough exposure to Bovine spongiform encephalopathy to explain how some folks routinely behave in BS threads... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 09:57 AM

ALL animal products should be labeled with some sort of certification that the animals were well kept and slaughtered as humanely as possible. If they were slaughtered according to Halal or Kosher rules it should say that. I thought that I had said that but maybe I had not made it simple enough.

Are you saying that ONLY Halal and Kosher products should be labeled? Why have a set of rules to cover religious practices but not one to cover humanist ones?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 10:09 AM

One of the purposes of food labelling is to tell us where the food came from and to what standards it was produced. That way I can decide whether I want to buy or eat it. The let's-label-halal suggestion was anti-Muslim in intent. Asking whether halal meat should be labelled as such is of no interest to me whatsoever as it tells me nothing about its quality or whether good standards of husbandry were used. When Muslims need to know the specific nature of their meat, they can and do handle that very well. The suggestion that meat should merely be labelled halal as a priority over stating its other welfare standards, as Keith and Iains suggest, is no more than a very badly-disguised attack on Islamic tradition. The great thing about Keith and Iains is that they always badly disguise their prejudicial attacks. See Labour thread. Or, better for your health, don't bother.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 10:46 AM

This seems a very specious argument:
One of the purposes of food labelling is to tell us where the food came from and to what standards it was produced. That way I can decide whether I want to buy or eat it. The let's-label-halal suggestion was anti-Muslim in intent. Asking whether halal meat should be labelled as such is of no interest to me whatsoever as it tells me nothing about its quality or whether good standards of husbandry were used. When Muslims need to know the specific nature of their meat, they can and do handle that very well. The suggestion that meat should merely be labelled halal as a priority over stating its other welfare standards, as Keith and Iains suggest, is no more than a very badly-disguised attack on Islamic tradition.

When Halal meat was not easy to find, labelling it was helpful to Muslims, and not decried as being anti-Christian.
Now that it is becoming difficult to find non-Halal meat, asking that it be suitably labelled is "a very badly disguised attack on Islamic tradition".

As to "Islamic tradition", this would relate to dietary laws handed down to peoples living in much sunnier climates. The Christian tradition is based on the Bible (both New & Old testaments). We have (had) similar laws passed down from the book of Leviticus. We no longer follow these as they are not relevant to our climate and way of life.
That does not mean that we oppose others following these 'traditions', just ask that they do not impose them on everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 10:54 AM

I wouldn't mind having some meat imposed on me right now..

just eaten a dead boring cottage cheese sandwich...



Seriously, how on earth can any good healthy tasty belly filling meat be an imposition on a meat eater...????? 😕

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 11:16 AM

Just to reiterate...

I believe all religions have more than their fair share of hard core nutters,
and all religions could be encouraged to be positively modified,
and unshackle themselves from their barmier antiquated traditions and practices...

If only the will for change existed...

Ignorance is bliss....???

Now I'm not saying the UK population is uneducated and really thick,
but apparently in inner cities many children don't even understand that meat is a product of killing live animals...????

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 12:02 PM

Dear me, Nigel. A racist post. You're saying that we Christians are the only enlightened ones and that Muslims still live in the dark ages. Well, as I'm neither, let me tell you that I discern very little difference. I wish there was no religion at all, but, while we have it with us, it ill-behoves adherents of any particular brand of that area of superstition to assert superiority over any other. Next time you go, say one for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 12:21 PM

just trying to work out how many thousands of tasty pork sausages, bacon sarnies and pork chops I'd eagerly consumed;
before my mum sat me down and blurted out the full hidden truth...

Son, you are 18 now, you need to know that grandad, RIP, isn't your blood grandad,
your real grandad, RIP, is a Jew......

Well.. thanks for telling me all that mum... that's.. errrmmm.. interesting...

bollocks......
So can't a modern Jew openly enjoy a pork banger in public...???

Might partially explain why my parents brought me up to ignore religions and work out my own path in life.....??????

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 12:30 PM

Have you ever seen Leon the Pig Farmer, PFR? Wonderful film. Very funny, with a good message and the late, great Brian Glover. I am sure you would enjoy it.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 12:36 PM

yeah.. when it came out.. but buggered if I can remember anything about it..

There was another hilarious pig oriented film back then ... post war rationing..??
was it Michael Palin...???

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 12:55 PM

Yep - A private function. Also very funny. I have been inspired to seek out both :-)

Must make sure I get a Kosher copy though...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Iains
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 02:10 PM

The great thing about Keith and Iains is that they always badly disguise their prejudicial attacks

Well stevie chunder hows about you substantiate that statement or retract it.

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 02:25 PM

Inanes - how about he does neither.. it's not necessary.. that'd be boring for all the rest of us..

From the limited number of BS threads I even bother to look at..
It's quite apparent what your 'team' get up to..

Your basic tactics are easily recognisable... 😣


On the other hand, your story about pigs in the land rover is interesting,
and chimes with memories of my childhood favourite uncle and piglets in a sack in the back of his transit...

Subject: RE: BS: Standard meat Indian restaurants?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 02:48 PM

If Halal meat is not labelled, how can a Muslim person know it is acceptable.
It is too important to most to take a chance.
It may not matter to you, but this is not about you.

You people see racism where there is none.
What possible objection can you have to honest labelling about something of vital importance to millions of consumers, and of interest to millions more.

How does it help anyone to keep it secret?