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BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 02 Jan 18 - 11:59 AM PS Nige: I'll take the Universty of Virginia over Blog-O-Paedia any day. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 02 Jan 18 - 11:57 AM the 1st Louisiana Native Guard (CSA)? Oh,. you mean the FAKE Louisiana state militia unit (never accepted into national Confederate service) that was never given uniforms or arms or ever saw service of any sort and was used solely for contemporary pro-Confederate propaganda purposes and beloved of Neo-Confederate ideologues spouting the usual racist nonsense?? Plenty of information sources out there on the REAL story, Nige- I give you a gift of this one: www.people.virginia.edu/~jh3v/retouchinghistory/essay.html |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Nigel Parsons Date: 02 Jan 18 - 11:34 AM Greg: Watch it again. I haven't as I don't have access to YouTube in work, but the show made clear that the Union Louisiana Native guard was formed from the members of the 1st Louisiana native Guard (CSA). While I wouldn't usually quote Wikipedia as a guaranteed source, you can see more Here |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 02 Jan 18 - 11:27 AM Nige, Nige, Nige - apparently you didn't actually watch the segment of Pawn Stars. Or wilfully chose to ignore the facts. The Louisiana Native Guard that Lt. Hayes served in was was a UNION regiment. Your "Black Confederate Officer" was, like all the rest of 'em, a myth. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Nigel Parsons Date: 02 Jan 18 - 11:11 AM The justification for building a monument to black Confederate soldiers is crumbling as historians point out there's no evidence such combatants ever existed. A recent sale of a revolver on the show "Pawn stars" came complete with documentary evidence which refutes that claim. YouTube |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 02 Jan 18 - 10:43 AM Both sentances are indeed accurate. If you check, Nige, you will find the same lack of factual documentation for each and every state of the Confederacy. This has been established by reputable historians and researchtwouders over and over. The myth of Black Confederate soldiers is just that- as well as a racist trope of long standing. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Nigel Parsons Date: 02 Jan 18 - 09:53 AM Greg F: Just a small point. These two sentences do not say the same thing. One is accurate, the other is not: The justification for building a monument to black Confederate soldiers is crumbling as historians point out there's no evidence such combatants ever existed. "I can say I have seen no documentation of black South Carolina soldiers fighting for the Confederacy," said historian Walter Edgar |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 02 Jan 18 - 09:35 AM al-Qaeda? When did they start erecting monuments to commemorate and enshrine a complete fabrication? South Carolina Goddamn. Republican Lawmakers Surprised to Learn No Black Soldiers Served Under Confederacy in South Carolina By Travis Gettys / Raw Story / January 1, 2018 The justification for building a monument to black Confederate soldiers is crumbling as historians point out there’s no evidence such combatants ever existed. State Rep. Bill Chumley (R-Woodruff) and state Rep. Mike Burns (R-Taylors) pre-filed a bill last month that would establish a commission to design an African-American Confederate veterans monument, reported The State. The bill would also require public schools to teach the contributions of black people toward the Confederate cause, and Chumley said his proposal had already accomplished his goal even as historians undermine its intent. The State reviewed pension records from 1923 that show three blacks claimed armed service in South Carolina units under the Confederacy, with two of them confirmed as cooks or servants and none for armed service. “In all my years of research, I can say I have seen no documentation of black South Carolina soldiers fighting for the Confederacy,” said historian Walter Edgar, the longtime director of the University of South Carolina’s Institute for Southern Studies. “In fact, when secession came, the state turned down free (blacks) who wanted to volunteer because they didn’t want armed persons of color. Continued here: https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/republican-lawmakers-surprised-learn-no-black-soldiers-served-under-confederacy |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 28 Aug 17 - 01:26 PM All the more reason to get it the hell out of there toot sweet. Apparently they've re-covered it- for now. Hopefully they will prosecute the "uncoverers" for criminal mischieff and theft of city property. Should be easy enuf to set up video monitoring. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Mrrzy Date: 28 Aug 17 - 01:11 PM Someone has already taken down the covering... |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 28 Aug 17 - 12:36 PM Thank you Mudelves. Appreciated. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 28 Aug 17 - 09:30 AM I stand corrected, Gilly. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: gillymor Date: 28 Aug 17 - 09:25 AM Actually a number of people expressed the viewpoint that Mrrzy speaks of in response to a post by Mr. Red earlier in the thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 28 Aug 17 - 08:57 AM Actually it was Steve. And you're absolutely correct about the success opf the re-write. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Mrrzy Date: 28 Aug 17 - 08:20 AM I gotta agree with, I think it was Joe, saying that it was the original erection of the statues that was about rewriting history. I would quibble that it was an "attempt" - seems to have been pretty successful to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 28 Aug 17 - 07:07 AM And boy I REALLY miss Azizi. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 28 Aug 17 - 07:07 AM Joe. Consider for a moment the scene the lyrics of the song are painting. I did not say or imply that they were the song's lyrics - in fact what is presented is a single sentance, nothing broken into stanzas and lines. NB:When I quote something, I use quotation marks or italic text. Not sure what tRump has to do with it- other than he IS a racist & supports white supremecists. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Aug 17 - 11:14 PM Oh. You made 'em up. Kinda like Trump does when he doesn't have facts that work for him. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 27 Aug 17 - 10:36 PM Joe, were I to explain, you apparently still wouldn't understand. Have a good evening. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Aug 17 - 09:26 PM Greg_F, where did you get those lyrics you allege come from "Waiting for the Robert E. Lee"? Here are the words you furnished:
We have a thread on the song here (click) that gives lyrics very much like the ones Keith posted. Sheet music for the song is here (click). Are you trying to pull a fast one on us? -Joe Offer- Judy Garland performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmEemOfsxhs (with blackface performers that would no longer be acceptable) Al Jolson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAZADY7kzv4 |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: bobad Date: 27 Aug 17 - 07:53 PM This sculptor has a great idea, she proposes to replace the likes of Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis with African-American heroes such as W.E.B. Dubois and Fannie Lou Hammer and James Baldwin. It doesn't hurt that she can use the work too. Gabriel Koren |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Aug 17 - 07:17 PM Couldn't agree more, Greg. All the time I worked in secondary schools here I railed against school uniform. I'm still in a minority opposing it. You may be praised or damned for what you wear in this world of small-minded people, but no-one has the right to tell you what to wear. You want me to wear a tie? Great. I'm just not coming to your event, even if it's your funeral! |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 27 Aug 17 - 06:47 PM I think beware of being uniformed is pretty sound advice, too, Steve. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Aug 17 - 04:30 PM Uniformed? I've always been opposed to uniforms. But what I meant was uninformed. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Aug 17 - 04:27 PM I seem to think that thinking for myself is far more valuable than thinking that a cheering audience must be right. Fascist crowds cheered Hitler, Franco and Mussolini. I've been catching up with Michael Portillo's history of the Spanish Civil War on the telly and can attest to that. I'm told that the baying crowd persuaded Pontius Pilate to favour a criminal over Jesus. As a matter of fact, it's not beyond the bounds that what you hear on the wireless could just be a quarter of the audience cheering while the other three-quarters sits still, seething. I was once in a Question Time audience, at the Eden Project (I even got to ask a question). When I watched the recording later, the applause and cheering was not especially representative of the general sentiment of the audience in most regards. What you may hear is quite likely the consequence of the accident of microphone placement. But, in any case, think for yourself and beware of being uniformed. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: gillymor Date: 27 Aug 17 - 03:28 PM EB, I thought the Jon Perr story was pretty interesting, particularly the last 2 paragraphs: "But if Lee sought to propagate Southern mythology, he was opposed to the hagiography of its leaders. "I think it wiser," he wrote in 1869, "not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered." On that point, Lee's conqueror Ulysses Grant fully agreed. That's why there is no enormous mural in the Capitol rotunda commemorating the Union general's glorious victory. And it's also why all of the Confederate monuments there, elsewhere on Capitol Hill and on public spaces around the United States of America must go." However, I'm pretty sure I didn't make reference to the story but I did use the Lee quote above,"I think it wiser..." from a different different story by another author and an oft-used quote from U.S. Grant that Perr also used, "...though their cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought." |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 27 Aug 17 - 03:01 PM the audience cheered the panellists [sic] who objected to demolition of statues. Ever watched film of Hitler's rallies or those of Donal-Dipshit, Ake? Plenty of cheering there, too. HEIL TRUMP!! |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 27 Aug 17 - 02:48 PM the principles for which the South contended and which justified her struggle for those principles." Absolutely, EB: the principles of slavery, white supremacy and treason. Apparently Lee thought these principles were "justified" by what you've quoted. If so, one more reason to get his memorials off public peroperty. Now, look up Grant's support of the Reconstruction governments, of Black suffrage, of his attempts to eradicate the KKK. You're confabulating history with selective cherry-picking to imply that Grant would have approved of these monuments celebrating slavery, white supremacy, Jim Crow & treason and would have been opposed to their removal. That is demonstrably not the case. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: EBarnacle Date: 27 Aug 17 - 02:14 PM Here's the complete NPR story Gillymor cited. Note the opening issue. The Capitol's missing Civil War monument to Ulysses S. Grant By Jon Perr Sunday Aug 27, 2017 · 12:23 AM EST 36 Comments (36 New) 90 grant_lee_appomattox.png There is no massive mural in the Capitol rotunda of Robert E. Lee's surrender to General Grant. President Grant wouldn't allow it. The neo-Nazi violence in Charlottesville has spurred calls around the nation for the removal of public statues, monuments and symbols venerating white supremacy and the "lost cause" of the Confederacy. Those sites include Capitol Hill, where eight statues of Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, Alexander Stephens and five other traitors to the United States were added between 1909 and 1931 at the behest of their home states. But while Democrats including Senator Corey Booker (D-NJ) and Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) have urged their Republican colleagues to "remove the Confederate statues from the Capitol immediately," Vice President Mike Pence echoed Donald Trump's charge that "they" were attempting "to take away our history and our heritage." "Obviously, I think that should always be a local decision. And with regard to the US Capitol, should be a state decision. I'm someone who believes in more monuments, not less monuments." If he is to be taken at his word that "more monuments" help us "remember our history," then Vice President Pence would surely support the installation in the Capitol rotunda of a massive mural depicting Lee's surrender to General Ulysses S. Grant at Appomattox. That never-completed tribute has been missing from Congress for 148 years due to the obstruction on one man. President Ulysses S. Grant. That's right. As Mark Neely, Jr., Harold Holzer and Gabor S. Boritt explained in The Confederate Image: Prints of the Lost Cause, Grant "wholly disapproved of the artists' enterprise" in capturing Lee's capitulation on canvas. When a Congressional commission approach the Northern conqueror soon after the Civil War to propose a painting of Lee's surrender for the Capitol rotunda, Grant refused. He said he would never take part in producing a picture that commemorated a victory in which his fellow countrymen were losers. In 1885, James Grant Wilson documented Grant's deference to Southern sensitivities this way: In 1869, some members of Congress wanted to put a massive painting of Lee surrendering to Grant in the Rotunda of the Capitol. They visited Grant, who was President-elect, to gain his approval. Grant, who was usually calm, got upset and said, "No, gentlemen, it won't do. No power on earth will make me agree to your proposal. I will not humiliate General Lee or our Southern friends in depicting their humiliation and then celebrating the event in the nation's capitol." This immediately ended any discussion of the painting. [Emphasis mine.] This was hardly the only example of Grant's generosity and compassion towards his former enemies. By the time the Army of Northern Virginia laid down its arms at Appomattox, General U.S. Grant had already embraced Lincoln's admonition during the Second Inaugural to offer "malice toward none, with charity for all." By offering such generous terms to Robert E. Lee and his soldiers, Grant begun to "bind up the nation's wounds" and "to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations." And to be sure, the respect and dignity Grant accorded Robert E. Lee and his surrendering Army of Northern Virginia was offered despite his disdain for their cause of slavery and secession. As he prepared to accept their capitulation, Grant later wrote of that moment in April 1865: "I felt sad and depressed at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though their cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought." One of the worst causes for a which a people ever fought, indeed. Nevertheless, even after his submission Robert E. Lee, the man who more than any extended the bloody life of the Confederacy, insisted on the rightness of that cause. Not long before his death in 1870, Lee explained: "Everyone should do all in his power to collect and disseminate the truth, in the hope that it may find a place in history and descend to posterity. History is not the relation of campaigns and battles and generals or other individuals, but that which shows the principles for which the South contended and which justified her struggle for those principles." But if Lee sought to propagate Southern mythology, he was opposed to the hagiography of its leaders. "I think it wiser," he wrote in 1869, "not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered." On that point, Lee's conqueror Ulysses Grant fully agreed. That's why there is no enormous mural in the Capitol rotunda commemorating the Union general's glorious victory. And it's also why all of the Confederate monuments there, elsewhere on Capitol Hill and on public spaces around the United States of America must go. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: akenaton Date: 27 Aug 17 - 02:02 PM I heard the programme, the audience cheered the panellists who objected to demolition of statues. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Aug 17 - 01:33 PM No-one on the Any Questions panel referred to the fact that the statues were largely erected many decades after the Civil War and that the motive for erecting them had nothing to do with honouring brave war heroes and everything to do with clawing back the detestable sentiment behind white supremacy and the subjugation of black people. There was a lot of hot air about free speech, etc., and a lot of arguing from ignorance of the true status of those statues. It was actually quite apalling to listen to. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 Aug 17 - 12:42 PM Greg, are these the lyrics you meant? "Waiting For The Robert E. Lee" Way down on the levee in old Alabamy There's daddy and mammy, there's Efran and Sammy On a moonlight night you can find them all While they are waiting the banjos are syncopating What's that they're saying, what's that they're saying Well while they keep playing I'm humming and swaying It's the good ship Robert E. Lee that's come to carry the cotton away Watch them shuffle along See them shuffle along Oh take your best gal real pal go down to the levee I said the levee Join the shuffling throng Hear the music and song It's simply great mate waiting on the levee Waiting for the Robert E. Lee Whistles are blowing smokestacks are showing The ropes they are throwing, excuse me I'm going To the place where all is harmonious Even the preacher they say is the dancing teacher Have you been down there say were you around there If you ever go there you'll always be found there Why doggone here comes my baby on the good ship Robert E. Lee Watch them shuffle along See them shuffle along Oh take your best gal your real pal go down to the levee I said the levee Join the shuffling throng Hear the music and song It's simply great mate waiting on the levee Waiting for the Robert E. Lee |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 27 Aug 17 - 12:41 PM Straw men & cluelessness - Ake's stock in trade. Again |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: akenaton Date: 27 Aug 17 - 12:38 PM Well there are plenty of songs praising Dixie and the War, do you remove all, along with any historical vestige? You see this is where what seems a very simple matter becomes a very complicated one....where do you draw the line. I'm studying whaling songs at present, whaling has been outlawed almost everywhere and the ships and men who preyed upon the schools are demonised.....do we proscribe all songs about whaling? In Scotland we have a large number of anti English historical songs, are they too to be banned as Racist? |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 27 Aug 17 - 12:38 PM Take it up with Ake, Stanron - he's the one singing it. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Stanron Date: 27 Aug 17 - 12:34 PM Greg F. wrote: I'd say it was a worthy companion piece for white supremecist statues.Only if you sing it or quote it. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: gillymor Date: 27 Aug 17 - 12:34 PM Here's what Robert E. Lee (the man, not the steamboat) had to say on the subject of Conferate monuments: PBS News Hour '"I think it wiser," the retired military leader wrote about a proposed Gettysburg memorial in 1869, "…not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered."' '"As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated," Lee wrote of an 1866 proposal, "my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; [and] of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour"' And Greg, those darkies were "happy", so what's the problem?☺️ |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 Aug 17 - 12:34 PM I have just listened to the Radio prog. Steve referred to. The panel was a political cross section, and all spoke against removing statues. One likened it to burning books and another to IS vandalism. One did say she had asked for a picture to be removed from parliament. I also read this thread, and there is clearly a lack of understanding here in UK of how strongly US folk feel about this issue. Few here would have any idea who/what Jim Crow is/was. Here is the programme, if available outside UK. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b091wf86 It is the last item on the programme. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 27 Aug 17 - 12:23 PM Well now, lets look at that song Waiting for the Robert E. Lee by L. Wolfe Gilbert ca. 1912. Happy darkies shufflin' 'roun' de lebee, plinkin' dey banjos waitin' fo de boat to load de cotton deyey jumped down, turned around and picked a bale of. I'd say it was a worthy companion piece for white supremecist statues. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Aug 17 - 12:15 PM A boat is private property and no one needs to patronize it if they don't want to. The song was set in historic times, and is a straw man in this conversation. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 27 Aug 17 - 12:08 PM He did have his name used on a very famous steamboat So did Alfred Peter Friedrich von Tirpitz. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Janie Date: 27 Aug 17 - 11:56 AM In 2015, our reactionary, right-wing, racist North Carolina General Assembly passed a law that prohibits local communities from removing Confederate monuments without approval from the politically controlled state Historic Commission. So, to answer your question, Ake, at least in North Carolina, no, local communities who vote to remove Confederate monuments from public property may not do so. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: akenaton Date: 27 Aug 17 - 11:12 AM I agree with Janie and would it not be possible to poll the residents of places where the "Jim Crow" statues exist, as to their removal? I do think that a statue of Robert E Lee is appropriate historically. He did have his name used on a very famous steamboat.....or do we have the associated songs proscribed? |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: gillymor Date: 27 Aug 17 - 10:47 AM Correction: The first doesn't specifically protect hate speech but nor does it exempt it from protection, I suppose we haven't evolved to that stage yet. Wishful thinking on my part, I guess. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: gillymor Date: 27 Aug 17 - 09:22 AM Old ake is grasping at straws now. I don't know why anyone bothers. Janie wrote: "The Southern Poverty Law Center specifically excluded monuments to Confederate soldiers in cemeteries, such as the Chase Cemetery in Ohio where Confederate prisoners of war died due to squalid conditions and were buried, and at battlefield parks such as Gettysburg, that do tell the story of war rather than glorifying, in their listing of Confederate monuments." I agree with SPLC's exclusions. I lived the first half of my life in the Washington, D.C. area and I'm pretty sure I've walked every major Civil War battlefield in MD, VA and PA, and some of the lesser-known ones, from Gettysburg down to Cold Harbor and Petersburg. With the monuments, statues and historical markers contained in those parks you really get a sense of what happened there and the experience would be much poorer without them. I'd never think of advocating for their removal, in fact I'd fight against it. What's being discussed here is something very different. The removal of symbols that are tantamount to hate speech which, as many have pointed out already, is not protected by the first amendment. It's not too hard too understand, if you're willing. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Aug 17 - 08:56 AM "there are people on this forum and in wider Society who seek the abolition of all religion" "Yet" doesn't cut it. The above is what you said. Now tell us which people on this forum seek the abolition of all religion. Thanks, Monique. I did get some lovely photos myself of the Tondo, though it's behind a perspex screen and it's hard to avoid reflections. A lovely young woman was guarding it like a hawk. After a while she tiptoed up to me and said "It is SO beautiful, isn't it?" |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Greg F. Date: 27 Aug 17 - 08:49 AM Now Ake's a convert to the alt-right's "Was On Christianity" delusion. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: Donuel Date: 27 Aug 17 - 08:47 AM Please compare the antiiconoclasts to current day white confederate sympathizing southerners. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: akenaton Date: 27 Aug 17 - 08:39 AM What should be done, Racist connotations or a well loved landmark? Is it the words or the Decoration? To me it is obviously a stylised bird, in 1880 it was photographed as "The Jim Crow" Do we remove the landmark because a small minority are offended? I can think of a thousand more offensive things that these people never contemplate. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Statues-Are we any better than ISIS or al-Qaeda From: akenaton Date: 27 Aug 17 - 08:21 AM "I haven't seen a single post here, or sentiment expressed to the effect, that all religion "should be abolished." .....YET! Just wait a while till the re-writers gain more strength. Christianity is now in the "front line", soon it will be political opinion. Joe, perhaps you are correct about the "Jim Crow" statues, but in the foreshore near our nearest little town stands a boulder which has been decorated black red and white in the stylised form of a bird. It is a well known landmark and on the side is written "Jim Crow" there are photographs of this boulder dating back to the 1800s well before "Jim Crow" in America. There is a small minority locally who want the stone removed. HERE |
