BS: brexit matters

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 07:47 PM

Ake is about the only left of center poster below the line who actually does offer non party-line ideas. The fact that no one accepts then does not change the fact that he does have ideas and they are not standard left wing dogma. The rest of you just post invective, insults Labour manifesto positions.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 07:56 PM

If you honestly think that akenaton is "left of centre," then I fear you need to consider whether you ought to be making the voyage back to planet Earth. You've been away for too long. Are there fairies on your current planet? You do appear to be away with them!

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Tootler
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 08:09 PM

I am heartily sick of being called a remoaner. I am not moaning I am exercising my democratic right to argue against and, if necessary campaign legally against an action that I believe will be profoundly damaging to the UK and anyone who calls me a traitor for exercising that right does not properly understand democracy.

After all, what have those who call us remoaners been doing for the last 40 years but moan on about the "corrupt" EU.

This is all I have to say on this. This thread has typified the nastiness that the referendum in 2016 has unleashed, particularly from the Leave side. After all it was a leaver who murdered an MP but the remainers here have been little better and do the remain cause no credit so for goodness sake, unless you have something constructive to say SHUT UP.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 08:24 PM

Oi, Tootler, it's dead grand to see you here, and I agree with every word you say (you knew I would!), even though you are a bit hard-hitting. My sister, a head teacher in Yorkshire, knew Jo Cox from childhood and is a good friend of Jo's mum. Stay with us and post your wisdom. We could do with a bit of that!

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 10:18 PM

i don't like being called a brexshitter, any more than you like being called a remoaner.

i'm really sad to hear people whom i like , like backwoodsman using that sort of name calling. i think its not productive in any way.

the economists seem pretty evenly divided about brexit. the politicians are virtually all anti brexit. i can't recall unanimity about anything like this since the decision to invade Iraq and the decision to join the ERM.

we're allowed to disagree, and we're allowed to doubt the inevitable wisdom of our rulers.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 11:10 PM

The politicians are anti-Brexit because they would like to get on the EU gravy train. Had David Cameron managed to keep us in the EU he would have been in line for a top EU job. Commissionaire at least and maybe president. Why do you think Tony Blair is so anti-Brexit. He would also have been in line for a top job, ahead of D C. No chance of that, of course, if we leave. It's not just the enormous salaries, it's the pension benefits. My pension gets me £600 a month. The Kinnocks pension pot is said to be worth around £10 million. Paid mainly by the German and UK tax payers. Am I bitter?

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 02:48 AM

The plot to leave the EU (I was going to say 'plan', but there is no 'plan', so 'plot' will have to do) is shit. Therefore it is BrexShit, and will remain so AFAIC. I care not one jot for the feelings of the small minority of madmen/madwomen whose votes have brought us to the brink of disaster, despite there being an overwhelming majority of the electorate who did not vote to leave in a seriously-flawed referendum that was only ever intended to be advisory - a 'finger in the air' to test how the wind was blowing. If those of us who wish to remain are 'Remoaners', I reserve the right to refer to those who support leaving as BrexShitters.

The Tory leadership is pro-BrexShit because that is the instruction they have been given by their mega-wealthy supporters and funders, whose only desire is to avoid the new EU anti-tax-avoidance/evasion regulations which come into effect in May 2019. Theresa May's husband makes a considerable amount of money from advising those very same people on their financial and tax affairs - well, who'da thunk it? No conflict of interest there then!

The BrexShit Brigade of Buffoons are still crowing about 'Taking Back Control', even as this corrupt Tory government is busy changing the rules so that they can make laws without Parliamentary scrutiny or approval. At the time of the referendum, some of us tried to persuade those feeble-minded enough to fall for the 'Take Back Control' bullshit that they would, in fact, be giving complete control to the Tories but, as usual, we were told we were 'traitors' who should 'get behind this country', and that we deserved to be 'arrested and shot' for preferring to remain in the EU. Well, eat shit you thickos, it's happening, right now, under your noses.

The other line squawked non-stop by the BrexShitters is the one about how they 'voted to bring back democracy' yet, whenever Remain supporters exercise their democratic right to debate and protest BrexShit, out comes all the BrexShitter's bollocks about 'traitors', 'arrested', and 'shot at dawn' again. Idiots, the lot of 'em.

Many BrexShitters (including some on here) seem to have this dream in their heads that, before the UK joined the Common Market (as it was called back then) we lived in a paradise, where everything was wonderful, everyone was fairly-treated and well-paid, there was no unemployment, there was no crime, no 'foreign Johnnies', and all was well in the Kingdom. Well I was brought up in the '50s and '60s, and guess what - it wasn't like that and, even if it had been, leaving the EU won't bring it back, so Dream On.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 02:55 AM

Exactly Stanron! They are only supported by so called socalists on this forum to save their crazy PC agenda, this agenda is in no way socialist, socialism is about a new economic system and a workable social system.

The battles of the 20th century only proved that progress cannot be made by strife and violence.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 03:24 AM

This from Backwardsman:

"this corrupt Tory government is busy changing the rules so that they can make laws without Parliamentary scrutiny or approval"

Hate to point this out to you Numbnuts but the only way for anything to be passed into Law and appear on the statute books in the UK is for it to go through both Houses of Parliament for "scrutiny" and "approval".

The 1950s & 1960s were considered to be one of the most affluent periods ever enjoyed by the population of the UK. The 1970s considered the worst.

By the way give my regards to the Musktwats.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 03:27 AM

Did I just hear someone fart?

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 03:31 AM

Oh sorry, it was Terribulus indulging in his standard MO of name-calling and insults.
Sorry, old lad, it won't work.
Standaaaaaat........Ease!!

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Stu
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 03:54 AM

"Ake is about the only left of center poster"

I think you'll find Ake is on the opposite side of the political spectrum, and I guess this is a wind-up. He's about as left wing as his idols Farage, Johnson, Trump and Goebbels.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 03:57 AM

The plot to leave the EU (I was going to say 'plan', but there is no 'plan', so 'plot' will have to do) is shit. Therefore it is BrexShit, and will remain so AFAIC. I care not one jot for the feelings of the small minority of madmen/madwomen whose votes have brought us to the brink of disaster, despite there being an overwhelming majority of the electorate who did not vote to leave in a seriously-flawed referendum that was only ever intended to be advisory - a 'finger in the air' to test how the wind was blowing. If those of us who wish to remain are 'Remoaners', I reserve the right to refer to those who support leaving as BrexShitters.

As far as the referendum was concerned, you need to look at the results from those who actually voted.
To use the "majority who did not vote to leave" ignores the fact that (by the same logic) there was an even greater "majority who did not vote to remain".

The "finger in the air test" was seeing the results of elections where the Conservative party were concerned about the votes they were losing to UKIP.

David Cameron announced the referendum, first with a clear statement of the many reasons he believed we should stay part of the EU, but then:
"Three years ago I committed to the British people that I would renegotiate our position in the European Union and hold an in-out referendum.

"Now I am delivering on that commitment.

"You will decide.

"And whatever your decision, I will do my best to deliver it.

From Here

That seems fairly clear-cut. We were given the choice, and David Cameron (presumably speaking for his party) would do his best to deliver on that choice.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 04:09 AM

Not quite Backwards, I did take the trouble to correct one of probably many misconceived notions that you have regarding life in general and Parliamentary procedure in particular:

"the only way for anything to be passed into Law and appear on the statute books in the UK is for it to go through both Houses of Parliament for "scrutiny" and "approval".

Got it??

If so, good, I have done you service and advanced your knowledge and clearly shows that this, from you, is patently untrue and easily recognisable as being the complete and utter, undoubted ill-informed tripe that it is:

"this corrupt Tory government is busy changing the rules so that they can make laws without Parliamentary scrutiny or approval"

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 04:20 AM

That dirty fucker's farted again! For fuck's sake open the windows! If he does it again, chuck his bedding out of the billet and let it get soaked in the rain! That'll teach the cunt.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 04:29 AM

How's that countdown of yours goin' Backwards?

There you go Jom, Backwards, who has a posting style remarkably similar to that of Musktwat, has just given you an example of polite, civilised, discussion.

Care to tell us your version of how something becomes Law in the UK Backwardsman - I could do with a good laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 04:33 AM

Oh dear someone having a hissyfit. Perhaps a kind forum fairy will delete him! or are some allowed to post what others cannot?

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Stu
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 04:34 AM

My, we are all a tad scratchy this morning aren't we? Have a brew and calm down muckers!

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 04:38 AM

Henry VIII...

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 04:44 AM

Thanks Shaw that was a good laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 04:59 AM

Simple answer. If leavers really believe in UK sovereignty, then let them pay for a referendum on every proposed SI on a departure from implementing EU laws in then UK to the letter. Let leavers pay for a referendum on whether or not to implement future EU laws and regulations where they would have had an impact in UK. Let the people decide, not excrement like May, Rudd, Johnson, Gove.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 05:08 AM

"After all it was a leaver who murdered an MP"
What a remarkably stupid, divisive statement. According to that font of socialist wisdom the gruniard, the man was an extreme rightwing terrorist. To include him with those that voted leave is the hall mark of a fool.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 05:23 AM

"After all it was a leaver who murdered an MP"

Not only stupid but inaccurate.

Jo Cox MP was murdered on the 16th June 2016. He murderer, Thomas Mair, was arrested almost immediately after the murder on the same day. Mair was charged on the 18th June and appeared at the Old Baily on the 20th June.

The EU Referendum was held on the 23rd June, 2016. Being in custody Thomas Mair could not cast a vote, so he can hardly be described as a leaver unless of course you want all those who did not vote classed as "leavers".

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 05:26 AM

Mebbe. But there's a good chance that that particular hate crime, committed by a white supremacist, along with many others following the referendum, would not have happened had it not been for the divisive, xenophobic, racist leave campaign. As with hurricanes and global warming, individual crimes are not predictable nor able to be ascribed to brexit, but there can't be much doubt that months of spouting inflammatory racist nonsense about the country being taken over, swamped by foreigners coming here for a benefits lifestyle or taking our jobs, driving down wages, burdening our health service and filling our air with nasty foreign languages led to consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 05:37 AM

Tell me Shaw. Are fairy tales your forte?

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 05:44 AM

You think that the considerable spike in hate crimes had nothing to do with the referendum campaign? My word. Anything else you'd care to deny?

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 05:44 AM

So Hurricanes and global warming are now crimes according to Shaw, but perhaps cannot be blamed on brexit. What an imagination the boy has- he is totally batshit crazy of course!

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 07:00 AM

How silly you are.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 07:12 AM

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Stu - PM
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 08:47 AM

We were politically independent before. When was the last time any of us voted for a representative in another country?

22 May 2014

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 07:15 AM

Nope, sorry to piss on your strawberries, Teribore, I'm not any of The Muskets (although I do know one of them in The Real World).

Anyway....Here you go...

And, to give us all a laugh at the very silly, Union-Flag-underpants BrexShitters...Arrff, arrff, arrff...!!

Now, I have a life, songs to write, tunes to learn, and a dog to walk, so I'll leave it here and come back to say "I told you so" in three or four years' time

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 07:32 AM

The delicious Isabel Hartman on 'Daily Politics' right now, talking about the Tory government's power-grab which I mentioned in my earlier post, and over which Teriboring is in complete denial.

Are you watching, Tez? You really do need to.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Stu
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 07:41 AM

Odd how everyone agrees it's power grab except the grabbers.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 09:32 AM

That would be Isabel Hardman I presume, John. I'm quite a fan meself...😜

Interesting how Jezza is manipulating and shifting the brexit agenda. Whether these diehard and blinkered brexiteers like it or not, he has an audience. He was very sure-footed in the World At One interview.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 09:36 AM

Interesting how we heard so much about taking back control and the sovereignty of Parliament in tbe campaign, yet here we are with a minority Tory government wanting to grab sole control over thousands of laws away from parliamentary scrutiny.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 09:37 AM

"Corbyn is whipping his MPs to vote against Brexit even though he privately supports it. Caroline Flint says MPs should rebel against the Labour whip. Thanks to Keir Starmer Labour officially want to stay in the single market during the transition, even though Corbynistas think the single market is a neoliberal tool of the bosses and want to leave it. Tom Watson says Labour could stay in the single market forever, yet John McDonnell says we have to leave it to respect the referendum result. Frontbenchers Jon Ashworth and Jenny Chapman say Watson is wrong, Heidi Alexander and Alison McGovern say he is right. Diane Abbott and Clive Lewis say Labour must support free movement, Corbyn and Starmer say free movement will end after Brexit. Barry Gardiner says staying in the customs union would be a "disaster", yet Starmer says we should remain in "a" customs union during the transition. Watson says we could stay in indefinitely. Tony Blair says we should just stay in the EU. Got that?"

Perhaps they should swap parliament for the Edinburgh fringe.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 09:59 AM

I call that honest and healthy and good for debate. At this point I suppose we don't need to talk about those right-wing Tory eurosceptics who made Cameron feel obliged to call a disastrous and undemocratic referendum, or Theresa May to call a completely unnecessary election which had the sole aim of shaking them off and which had nothing to do with the interests of this country. And nobody mention Ken Clarke, of course. And I hope you don't want the Tories to agree with the DUP, without whom they wouldn't be in power by now. Gosh, now there's another broad church then! Eurosceptic backwoodsmen (with apologies, John), the DUP, little Englanders, chaps who can't decide whether they are Tories or Ukippers, Moggites, Camorons, plotters, the Davis buffoon and good old Ken. Let me remind you that the vilification of Corbyn and Labour that appeared to be the one and only tactic of the Tories in the election rebounded very badly on them. I see you haven't learned that lesson yet. You should listen to Jezza's interview. You probably don't agree with a single word he says but just note the calm and measured delivery. That's how he did it and that's how he's going to do it even better next time. Be very afraid, Theresa!

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 10:11 AM

No worries, Steve, although I don't agree with everything the EU does, I'm far from being a Eurosceptic!👍😄

Another good laugh here!

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 10:21 AM

I enjoyed that!

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 10:31 AM

Backwardsman - more final appearances than Frank Sinatra

"so I'll leave it here and come back to say "I told you so" in three or four years' time"

Go on then Arsefirst - Do it your way.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 10:33 AM

JAMES WHO???????????????????????

Let us see what reuters has to say:



https://order-order.com/2017/09/11/textbook-despitebrexit-from-reuters/

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 10:37 AM

It's Guido Fawkes, chaps and chapesses. Nice to know before you click.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 10:40 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 09:59 AM

! Eurosceptic backwoodsmen (with apologies, John), the DUP, little Englanders, chaps who can't decide whether they are Tories or Ukippers, Moggites, Camorons, plotters, the Davis buffoon and good old Ken. Let me remind you that the vilification of Corbyn and Labour that appeared to be the one and only tactic of the Tories in the election rebounded very badly on them.

Yes, explain that vilification of Corbyn didn't work, while vilifying your opponents by the use of terms like 'little Englanders','buffoon' and 'Camorons'.

Double standards anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 10:44 AM

I don't think Steve's use of those terms matches the gutter press campaign against Corbyn, Nigel.

Not so much double standards as trying to compare apples with hand grenades.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 10:49 AM

I was showing you that Labour hasn't got a monopoly on internal divisions. That was the point of my post. I should think I'm entitled to respond in that way if I disagree with a post that implies that Labour is the only party that needs to work on unity. This is a discussion forum, by the way, not an election campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 12:05 PM

Here you go - a bit more about the dirty work the minority Tory government are up to right now...

Attempted Whitewash of Tory Power-Grab Jiggery-Pokery

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 12:05 PM

Here you go - a bit more about the dirty work the minority Tory government are up to right now...

Attempted Whitewash of Tory Power-Grab Jiggery-Pokery

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 12:26 PM

Stupid argument. The composition of the committees reflects the membership of the house. The government of the day has the majority
until such time as it falls. Whether it be Tory, Labour, coalition, it matters not a jot.
"Attempted whitewash of Tory power Grab jiggery pokery" can be simplified. Try RUBBISH!

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 12:37 PM

Backwardsman is just a bit of an "Alarmist" who hasn't a clue how Parliament works. It appears to be a bit of a failing of our coterie of middle-class, past it, trendy lefties - yabbering on about things they know nothing about.

He probably misses the Epworth Perma thread where he, Rookery4 and Musktwat spent all their time telling each other how good they were.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Tootler
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 01:41 PM

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Teribus - PM
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 05:23 AM

"After all it was a leaver who murdered an MP"

Not only stupid but inaccurate...

OK you can argue that technically my statement about Thomas Mair being a leaver was inaccurate. Maybe Imshould have said "Leave supporter" but stupid? Justify that statement because I contend it's not.

As far as "Brexshitter" and similar terms are concerned I no longer use such terms. I normally refer to leave supporters either as "Brexiters" or "Leavers" and I ask Leave supporters to treat us with respect and use similar terms for Remain supporters.

We are not traitors. We believe that Brexit will profoundly damage the UK and we don't want that to happen and have a perfect right to argue against Brexit. The UK is a democracy and part of being a democracy is the right to disagree and to do so lawfully. The extreme Brexiters seem hell bent on shutting any debate down, possibly because they believe in their heart of hearts they have a very weak case so they invoke the word "democracy" to do the opposite and stifle democratic debate.

As to Cameron's "we'll implement the result". Although they didn't put it that way, the Supreme Court in the Miller case made it pretty clear he had no right to make that statement as it was up to parliament to decide what to do about the result as the referendum was advisory.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 01:55 PM

"Stupid argument. The composition of the committees reflects the membership of the house. The government of the day has the majority
until such time as it falls. Whether it be Tory, Labour, coalition, it matters not a jot.
"Attempted whitewash of Tory power Grab jiggery pokery" can be simplified. Try RUBBISH!"

Not rubbish, I'm afraid. It matters a big jot, because this is a minority government that has a confidence and supply deal with the DUP. A true reflection of this in committees would mean that no committee had an overall majority of Tories. It is not a coalition government and the Tories do not have a Commons majority in any constitutional sense whatsoever. The deal with the DUP is an informal arrangement that is neither legally nor constitutionally binding. Gina Miller this week has demonstrated that it was improper to offer the deal to the DUP without parliamentary approval. This attempted usurping of powers malarkey knows no bounds with this lot. You guys blathered on interminably during the campaign about "taking back control." So here we have a prime minister who failed to win a mandate improperly grabbing as much control as she can. Ironic really.