Happy 500th, Protestantism

Subject: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Oct 17 - 04:45 PM

Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the church door at Wittenberg on 31 October 1517.

I haven't seen anything at all planned to mark the date, musical or otherwise. Has anybody else here?

Subject: RE: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Oct 17 - 05:03 PM

Hi, Jack -
The 500th anniversary celebration started in October, 2016, and there have been lots of events. Some were musical' but probably not enough to keep this thread in the music section very long.
I went hiking in Zermatt with a few Swiss Lutherans who were hoping that Pope Francis would take part in the celebrations. Sure enough, he did:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/31/500057532/in-show-of-unity-pope-francis-marks-500th-anniversary-of-protestant-reformation

While in some ways the Reformation was an act of separation, the anniversary has been a celebration of unity and diversity.
Here's a calendar of many of the events that took place over the last year:

https://www.visit-luther.com/explore-luthercountry/events/2017-500th-anniversary-of-the-reformation/

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Oct 17 - 10:21 PM

Various churches and places here have planned or have done various things. The Presbyterians did "The Kirking of the Tartans" again, with bagpipes and all. The Catholics invited everyone to their International Food Festival. Even the Buddhists have gotten involved!

Subject: RE: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: Amos
Date: 26 Oct 17 - 03:10 PM

What a morally mixed-up bag. The courage of protesting the ethical lapses of the Holy Roman church are laudable, a testament to the inherent ethical sense of the human spirit. Spending such precious capital on better ways to oursue theist doctrine strikes me as something like standing up for freedom of speech in Disneyland. But, chacun a son mauvais gout, as they say. We are, each of us, destined to explore the Infinite in our own way.

Subject: RE: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Oct 17 - 03:50 PM

I think, Amos, that we may be better off when we come to the realization that there are few straight lines in our lives. I'm not sure I feel very comfortable with those who believe they have achieved moral clarity.
Better to do the best you can, and then sit down and have a beer and think about it.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: DaveRo
Date: 26 Oct 17 - 04:28 PM

I'm currently reading The Holy_Roman_Empire, by Peter H Wilson. I recommend it. It puts the Reformation - and indeed religion - in its political context.

Subject: RE: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Oct 17 - 08:12 PM

Today he would have used an electric screwdriver

Subject: RE: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: EBarnacle
Date: 26 Oct 17 - 10:29 PM

Ya mean we'd be even more screwed up?

Subject: RE: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Oct 17 - 11:07 PM

One upon a time, I read through Luther's 95 theses. They make a lot of sense, although a number of them are kinda technical. The Roman Church answered most of those theses during the Second Vatican Council, and generally proved that Luther was right.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: meself
Date: 26 Oct 17 - 11:34 PM

Well ... was there ever any question about that? I mean, outside the Catholic Church. Which I suppose means mostly among Protestants, so ... anyway, you know what I mean ... do you?

Subject: RE: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Oct 17 - 04:25 AM

Hi, "meself" - I think the point is realizing that it's healthy to have a number of perspectives, and none of them is necessarily wrong. That's something we all have to constantly remind ourselves about. Too often, we go through life thinking that "different" must be "wrong."

Both sides of the discussion have learned tolerance over the last 500 years.

The differences between the Catholic and Protestant churches are viewed differently in the U.S. and Europe. While there's no state religion in the U.S., the Catholics have felt like a minority for most of U.S. history. Catholics were targeted by the Ku Klux Klan and the Know-Nothings and other groups.

I'm sure it's the Protestants who felt like a minority in much of Europe.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Oct 17 - 09:38 AM

Hier steh ich.
Ich kann nichts anders.
Gott hilfe mir.

Subject: RE: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Oct 17 - 09:58 AM

Some French beaurocrat changed my religion from None to Protestant on a school form, because everybody knows all Americans are protestant.

Subject: RE: Happy 500th, Protestantism
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Oct 17 - 02:06 PM

I think that almost all of the Christian "reformers" of the 15th and 16th centuries were theologians - and pretty good ones, at that. Their differences with the Roman Church were relatively minor. For the most part, they just wanted the Church to clean up its act and move away from the power-hungry materialism that was the trademark of the papacy for centuries. For the most part, these reformers had no desire to separate from the Roman Church. It was those who followed after them, who simplified the teachings of the reformers into rigid doctrines that emphasized and delineated differences in thought, rather than seeing those differences as a healthy diversity.

I have to confess that one Christian creed I never could accept, was Calvinism. And then recently I read some of Calvin's writings, and they made sense. I then learned that it was those who came after Calvin who developed the simplistic and rather illogical teachings of so-called Calvinism - very few of the descendants of Calvin hold to those teachings any more.

Luther was an Augustinian, and the major influences on his theology were St. Paul and St. Augustine. Like Paul, Luther emphasized the importance of faith over good works, but he never denied the need to do good. Ideologues and politicians who came later took all the nuances out of Luther's teachings, and those nuances became differences that could not be reconciled.

Over the years, the Christian churches have forgotten most of what divided them. As I see it, there is one primary division in most religious groups - the division caused by fundamentalism. And that's a very significant difference.

When I was in a Catholic seminary in the 1960s, we used very few textbooks that were specifically Catholic. We used texts written by excellent theologians who came from a wide variety of denominations. So, I see this celebration of the Reformation as a celebration of unity - and I'm very glad to see it.

-Joe-