BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 06:15 AM

In UK prisons (of which I visited many, about fifteen years ago) inmates used to wear a heavy cotton, good quality, blue and white striped shirt (small narrow stripes) and blue denim jeans. They had grey jumpers, and those who worked outside (in the D Cat prisons) were issued with donkey jackets, gloves and boots. All underwear, socks, pyjamas, bedding and towels etc were provided and laundered. The shirts were so valued that many prisoners pinched one or two to take out with them - they were rather proud of having been 'inside'. Even more prized was the 'escapee outfit' in green and yellow (to be quickly identified) in a sort of harlequin design. Escapees were revered by the others. I never saw any orange uniforms.

Many prisons now allow inmates to wear their own clothes, especially the D Cat ones. I've been in Parkhurst ('Parko') an A Cat prison, and there security was very tight.
All the prisons had the metal-detector arch and searches with hand-held detectors, plus sniffer dogs and a pat-down search too for all visitors, even church ministers and volunteers such as myself.

Schools in USA might do well to implement such stringent searches (and some areas here in UK where knives are now becoming a problem)

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Thompson
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 06:08 AM

Donuel, in normal countries people come to court in their own clothes. In fact, come to think of it, this sometimes happens in America; an American woman on trial with her father in relation to the killing of her husband turned up every day very stylishly dressed.

Usually people don't arrive very well dressed, since it's mostly the poor who are prosecuted; court occasions tend to involve poor people in track suits and sneakers and baseball caps, police in uniforms and lawyers in suits, or if it's an important trial, gowns and wigs.

If it's a white-collar crime, of course, the accused dresses in a suit. There's a pair of Dublin jokes: "What do you call a northsider in a three-piece suit? The accused. What do you call a southsider in a three-piece suit? Counsel for the accused." (Basied on the notion, not universally accurate, that people from the part of Dublin north of the River Liffey are poor, and people from the southern part are rich.)

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 05:18 AM

I wonder why US schools do not introduce security gates and metal detectors. Having spent sometime working in a high rise office block
with De Beers, the security there was so tight the zipper on your jeans was liable to automatically incarcerate you as you attempted entry. No way you were going to force the stainless steel turnstyles, and the huge loops of razor wire on top made climbing a non event. By the time you got inside you were squeaky clean, having passed through metal detectors, a pat down and separate search of all you were carrying. It was very quick and extremely thorough.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 02:57 PM

good post keb


Orange Alert
When did prisoners start dressing in orange?
By Christopher Beam


Pretty recently. Back in the 19th century, prisoners commonly wore black-and-white stripes. Prisons started abandoning this design in the early 20th century, citing its association with chain gangs. For a while, more demure colors were in vogue. New York state abolished prison stripes in 1904, switching to jackets and caps made of gray cloth. North Carolina kept the stripes until 1958, when it replaced them with a color system based on custody levels: Gray uniforms for high-security prisoners, brown for medium-, and green for low-. It wasn't until the 1970s or so that jails started putting some prisoners in orange uniforms—but usually only in special detention situations (like in a temporary facility) or in transit. In California, for example, prisoners must wear orange or red when they're being transported.

While orange may be more popular than in the past, it's actually not ubiquitous. The state of California outfits its male prisoners in denim jeans, blue chambray shirts, and denim jackets. The federal maximum security prison in Florence, Colo., issues khaki trousers and shirts. New York state actually bans the color orange among prisoners: It issues uniforms that are "hunter green," and lets them wear their own T-shirts, as long as they're not blue (the color of prison-guard uniforms), black (too hard to see), gray (other officials wear it), or orange (the color worn by the Correctional Emergency Response Team, or riot control).
Orange might seem more pervasive than it is because prisoners often change into orange when they go out in public. Sheriffs sometimes put prisoners in orange during perp walks in front of reporters, and prisoners often wear orange in court. Movies such as Con Air—in which a group of convicts clad in orange hijacks a plane—have also helped spread the impression that orange is the new black-and-white. And then there's Gitmo. Pictures of Guantanamo Bay prisoners wearing orange have gotten a lot of attention in recent years

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 02:46 PM

Has anyone asked Frank Hall for his opinion?
Remember Frank Hall?
His story was the cover story for an issue of Sports Illustrated magazine.
Sports Illustrated went back to Frank Hall for an update
after Parkland, Florida;
he made history at Chardon High School, Ohio, some six years ago.

"They can't let evil win"

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 07:50 AM

No, all prisoners in our jails wear orange, it is the only color.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 07:04 AM

Kieth,at least you chose the correct gun thread for your opinion.

I feel a definite difference this time on a visceral level.
Many Huge Corporations and private businesses are boycotting the NRA and its promotions. The list is growing.


ps the orange jump suit in jail signifies the prisoner is accused of a violent crime. Blue jump suits are for victimless crimes.

In court it may be impractical to wear nice outfits and perky sweaters at arraignment. Later you can wear what you think besy.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 05:22 AM

Trump is excelling himself in trying to turn America into a cesspit - talking about teachers shooting the hell out of people. Makes me want to vomit, and I hope you never imposed that revolting piece of filth on this country, and you will keep your excrement to yourself. Trump is a piece of garbage - anyone in the UK who wants to allow trump to come here or votes for someone who wants to allow trump here is garbage too.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 05:01 AM

"Imagine a country so fucked up, the idea of a teacher carrying a gun in school is actually an idea!"

Anywhere else it would be deranged, but if you can not get rid of the guns it is a pragmatic if desperate way to reduce the carnage in schools.

Obama promised to solve the gun problem after Sandy Hook but found it impossible.
Do you expect Trump to succeed where he failed?

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Thompson
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 04:12 AM

Have to agree with leeneia. The bizarre American practice of bringing people (presumed innocent?) to court chained up and in weird orange prison coveralls has become a way for them to appear heroic to would-be teen rebels.
Courts should be calm, and people should be normally dressed when appearing before them.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 07:29 PM

it is amazing to hear these young people expressing so clearly and passionately how to change their society and the warped attitudes that are the very reason for the appalling massacres that continue to happen.
That schools in America have 'gun drills' in the way we (Scotland) have fire drills leaves me gobsmacked.
The young are a tide of change arising and I hope will continue to sweep away the dinosaurs of the past and make a new community of their country.
It feels like what was happening in the '60s and '70s with ending the Vietnam war, marching and singing against nuclear weapons, the movement for racial equality with Martin Luther King, boycotting South Africa / apartheid, the rise of feminism /women's liberation and so many more causes.
Wonderful songs, speeches and alas sacrifices - I hope so much this generation of the young will go down in history for what they are doing, what they will achieve!

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 05:21 PM

"YaHooo It must have been timing but my crusade for Giant Food stores to stop selling GUN MAGAZINES has worked."

Take your bow, Donuel, it's a positive feedback mechanism. Your act helps create the timing for the next one.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 05:13 PM

"Imagine a country so fucked up, the idea of a teacher carrying a gun in school is actually an idea!"

Well it was Trump's um utterance Bonzo, so maybe you're giving it too much credit by calling it an idea.

I have to admit, the image of my 7th grade English teacher, Miss Pincus, holstering a .45 on her immense right hip gave me a hollow laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 05:03 PM

YaHooo It must have been timing but my crusade for Giant Food stores to stop selling GUN MAGAZINES has worked. They no longer sell gun catalogs, books and magazines.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 04:57 PM

Imagine a country so fucked up, the idea of a teacher carrying a gun in school is actually an idea!

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 04:56 PM

But Principal Skinner, I would swear on a sack of bibles I set the safety to off...

B A R T !

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 04:30 PM

Just remember, kids, this can't be said often enough:

"Guns don't kill people. People kill people.



Guns just make it really, really EASY!"

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 12:55 PM

Did I really hear that Trump has suggested arming each teacher.

Absolutely, yes!

That's been the NRA position for some time. President Shithole is just saying what he's been told to say.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 10:28 AM

Right. Toxic. Masculinity?

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 09:45 AM

That, Jack, is a good editorial cartoon.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 09:25 AM

Mrrzy: "why is it mental health?"

Good question, Mrrzy.

I think it has something to do with power and profits, and the difference in possible responses;

"If you say people like me are responsible for gun violence, I get even more withdrawn and depressed."

vs

"If you say people like me are responsible for gun violence, I'll shoot you."

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 09:20 AM

Did I really hear that Trump has suggested arming each teacher.

Guns are a problem, so lets issue more guns to solve it ?????

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 09:16 AM

I can't find the article now but it was about the real issue being "toxic masculinity" and the idea that it's not just OK but *right* to shoot people who bother you if you're a *real* man.

More men own guns, more women have mental illnesses, more men do the shooting, why is it mental health?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm just sayin
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 08:06 PM

There comes a time
When guns have killed enough
When the kids must come together as o
There are people dying
Oh, and it's time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all

We can't go on
Pretending day-by-day
That someone, isn't planning to shoot us
We're all a part of life's great mystery
And the truth, you know, love is all we need

We are the kids
We are the parents
We are the ones who choose a better life, so please stop shooting
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll live a better life, for you and me

send them some hope
So we'll know we won't be murdered
And our lives will be stronger and free
As the world has shown us turning guns to bikes
And so we all must pass a helpful law

We are the world
We are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day, so let's start giving
Oh, there's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day, just you and me

When you're down and out, there seems no hope at all
without AR 15s we won't be shot and fall
Well, well, well, well let us realize
Oh, that a change can only come
When we stand together as your kids and parents.

We are the kids
We are the parents
We are the ones who choose a better life, so please stop shooting
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll live a better life, for you and me

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 05:18 PM

By all means drift. Its refreshingly true.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 03:50 PM

"I think that Robt. Mueller investigating Russian interference, might beg to differ    ;>)"

Mueller and I wouldn't differ about the criminality of the interference and the need to nail the perpetrators.. I have no idea whether we'd differ about the effect of it. To my mind, the gerrymandering engineered by the founding fathers (sic), and its extension up to the present, played a role in Clinton's defeat more important by an order of magnitude.

But this is drifting.

I have no basis for this, other than my feelings, and my recollection of what happened before when students across the nation started walking out, but it seems that the circumstances are just right for a precipitating action like the response of the students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. I feel something has changed:

Support for stricter gun control legislation was already at an all time high. Also, significantly, in 2014, I believe, US homicides hit their lowest point since the mid-60s. There's been a slight uptick since then, but NO ONE wants to go back to where it was 15-20 years ago. The fear of loss is always stronger than the hope for gain, so the fact that gun homicides are at a relatively low point actually improves the prospects for meaningful legislation.

I think that people will now be more receptive to other facts: the plague of gun suicides, double the gun homicide rate, the smaller but still unacceptable accident rate, and beyond the various deaths, the immense physical and mental damage resulting from non-fatal injuries. Before, those non-homicides didn't seem to carry much weight. Libertarian gun ADVOCATES made the point that most gun deaths were suicides, a matter of individual choice, of our precious liberties. if you will.

I don't think that will fly anymore.

Maybe I'm just delusional; maybe even if there is a groundswell, it won't affect legislation nationally. But it feels very different, thanks to those students and the real, not robo, response to it.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 02:19 PM

Yes and no Greg.

   1 good lie can be taken up by 30K more trolls just to be vengeful and diabolically argumentative whether or not they themselves believe it.
Then there are the unwitting who really are believers.

The kryptonite to a democratic democracy is simply a loss of trust;
in one another our institutions and our collective reasoning.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 01:25 PM

a few dedicated automata to create a striking web presence, with a heavy proportional endorsement, but it doesn't necessarily mean anyone's mind is changed by it. [Emphasis mine]

I think that Robt. Mueller investigating Russian interference, might beg to differ    ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 01:01 PM

Greg, that sounds like terminal flop sweat to me.

If I were a parent worried about my kid, whatever my politics, that sort of nonsense would be absolutely counterproductive.

As we've seen, it's very easy for a few dedicated automata to create a striking web presence, with a heavy proportional endorsement, but it doesn't necessarily mean anyone's mind is changed by it.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:03 PM

The Republican mindset: you just can't make this shit up:

An aide to a Florida legislator claimed that two survivors of the mass shooting at a Parkland high school were ?actors? and not really students, echoing a conspiracy theory that has gained traction on social media following the deadly attack.

In his note, Kelly claimed that Emma Gonzalez and David Hogg, students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, were actually ?actors that travel to various crisis when they happen.?

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 11:47 AM

DEAD CHILDREN ARE THE PRICE OF FREEDOM

The new N.R.A. motto. Wait for it.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 08:45 AM

Virtually all the High schools in DC and Montgomery county are having a walk out at 10AM today. The mega high schools of Richard Montgomery, Georgetown and more, are going to the nation's capitol to demonstrate their sentiment.

The Florida legislature did pass a gun control law yesterday by making it illegal to pass any legislation against AR15s.
State Representatives smirked and laughed as kids cried.



I too used to shoot up until a fellow student acquaintance propped his gun against a barb wire fence when it went off, removing all trace of his being a male.

Russian bots are busily calling Florida Parkland high school students actors for the left to ban all guns.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 08:02 AM

This from todays Portland [Maine, US] Press Herald:

'Suzanne Hanvey may be "just" a freshman, but she isn't waiting around for adults to figure out what to do in the wake of Florida's deadly school shooting.

She and students attending at least five Maine high schools plan on walking out of school for 17 minutes on March 14, one minute for each person who died last week. It's part of a nationwide student-led series of protests, spurred by the passionate calls for gun control from student survivors of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.

"I want change now," said Hanvey, a 14-year-old who attends Thornton Academy in Saco. "I'm not going to wait for it. I'm not going to wait for some adult to make change."'
=========================================================

As in other progressive movements, young people are taking the lead.

I would not be surprised if candidates in even moderately red districts can gain state or national office by running against the NRA and their lap-dogs:

"My folks taught me to shoot when I was X years old, and I've owned a gun ever since. I've spent hours with my own kids teaching them gun safety, and I want them to grow up to teach their kids, not get mowed down by some jerk with an assault rifle. Like a lot of us, and unlike my opponent, I think it's high time we started putting the safety of our children ahead of the profits of the gun companies.

"I own a blah-blah-blah deer rifle, which I bought after a background check, and which I keep locked away from my kids. I don't own an assault rifle because I don't kill people. But every fall, in the deer season I go out, and when I know I have a clean shot, I bag my buck and bring it home for my family to eat.

I never go out on the first day of the season, because that's when any fool who can buy a gun is out there blasting away at anything that moves. No training, no skill, and no sense. Like a lot of us, I'm outraged that it's easier to buy a gun than get a driver's license.

I used to belong to the NRA, but, unlike my opponent, I quit when they stopped supporting responsible ownership and became paid stooges for the gun companies.

Putting gun profits ahead of our kids is disgusting, and it has to stop. Now."

Something like that, only not so windy and not scrawled on the back of an e-envelope. It would be a second step.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 06:00 PM

One is allowed to buy 33 AR15s per month which is needed for collectors and gun runners. In an effort to maximize sales there is a version of AR15s that snap together in groups of 4,6 and 8 in single or double stacked configurations.

"The special waave automatic trigger pulls only one trigger at a time in blindingly fast Gatling gun fashion. It mounts on a convenient sturdy duo axis swivel mount.
The balance and aiming response is effortless from a stationary blind or urban location. While no two weapons fire simultaneously there is no significant increased recoil. It is like having 8 simultaneous bump stocks in real time.
ALL YOU DO IS AIM, the waave trigger function is finger print proof and enjoys an electric push start and stop button." They even hav an attachment if you are handicapped- wavev2.com/index?route-beabea10ms21hlltouchless_trigger-XoUeAS

Waave goodbye to your targets.
For all your mass shooting needs there is nothing better than 'The Waave' unless you have twin 50 cals..ha ha ha.


The gun manufacturer world is a strange and threatening place.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
Have you the will to stop the madness?

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: olddude
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 05:43 PM

The Russians have a great business making ak-47s for the US... Bet they are big supporters

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 05:21 PM

From: Donuel - PM
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 11:08 AM

You can bet the Russian enhanced digital socialmedia (REDS) is on the side of the NRA.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: leeneia
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 04:35 PM

1. A letter to the editor in my newspaper today wonders if Russia is supporting the NRA. Another interesting idea.

2. The family that was giving Nikolas Cruz a home says that he could not do laundry or operate a microwave. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Not that I am excusing him, but it makes me think that we are far from seeing the whole picture at this point.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 03:24 PM

Now is not the time to
talk about your murder !

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 01:04 PM

Sex shaming falls into the causative category of shootings with feelings of anger and unfairness leenia. Feelings of retribution against shooters are perfectly normal, especially in mobs. I would still agree shooters deserve a badge of dishonor that outweighs the badge of notorious rage and vengeance.

Sex is a ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc - 366666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666mycat
didthat+++++++

factor in murder.

There are many false dead end factors in causing shooters to go ballistic like; video games, peaceful drugs, rock and roll, heavy metal etc.
They all rank up there with 'guns don't kill people' as NRA lies go.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: leeneia
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 12:36 PM

It would be interesting to know what drug and alcohol tests of Nikolas Cruz showed.
============
Here's one thing we could all do. Stop making anti-heroes of them. They crave publicity. Most of Cruz's victims were freshmen girls - the smallest, most vulnerable kids in the school. As a former senior in a large school, he had probably never even met any of them.

Why not point out his cowardice, his immaturity, his school-boy meanness? He was probably a reluctant virgin; mention that as well.
If enough people did this, foolish boys might stop thinking that the mass shooter earns the world's attention.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 11:54 AM

Years have passed, even decades, are spent trying to profile the shooter. What shooters share is basically feelings of anger and unfairness combined with an obsession with guns. Otherwise shooters can appear to be normal all the way to obviously deranged.

That one factor about an obsession, yeah that one, it kind of stands out doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 10:42 AM

And now President Shithole - when he can tear himself away from twatting, is quizzing his Mar-A-Lago customers anbout whether he should support gun control......

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 09:47 AM

I think Jackaroodave makes sense.
The people I've heard about doing the shootings weren't mentally ill. They weren't depressed, or bi-polar, or schizophrenic, or anything we're used to thinking of as mentally ill.
They might very well be psychopaths, or regular folks who just "snapped". I don't know enough to be aware of the criteria, but there are undoubtedly experts who would know what to look for.

And average citizens shouldn't have assault weapons, period.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 09:19 AM

but when the eminently sane Donald Trump starts
yes, and Corporal Nobby Nobbs (Discworld) has a letter signed by the patrician confirming he's human.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 09:07 AM

Nigel: "That is not to say that mental health is the sole, or main, reason for US gun death statistics."

I think we're using two different conceptions of mental illness: I'm thinking of the people I see on the street mumbling their conversations with the deity or whomever, not narcissists with anger management issues who slay their faithless spouse, their children, and then themselves.

The former poor souls have enough trouble tying their shoes, much less getting the money together, making the necessary connections to purchase a weapon and ammunition, and planning and carrying out the deed.

Generally, the mentally ill are much more likely to be victims of violence--by "normal" people --than vice versa.

Unless one wants to stipulate "Anyone who would kill a bunch of people is by definition deranged," even the sane mass murderers outnumber the psychos: Tim McVeigh, Dylan Roof, Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, the 9/11 pilots--they had clearly thought-out reasons for what they did, planned it (more or less) soundly, and carried it out successfully.

Even Nikolas Cruz--I will lay odds there are people walking amongst us who are clinically way further off the beam and absolutely non-violent, while there are others who are much more stable who will kill a bunch of people sooner or later.

Scapegoating the putative violent psychotic is a practice with a long history. It lets everyone off the hook; it dehumanizes the problem by laying it on a perceived non-person.

Nigel, I don't think we really disagree, and I apologize for the rant, but when the eminently sane Donald Trump starts . . . . oh, I can't go on.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 07:55 AM

Whatever the truth of it, one thing is certain - Americans have to sort this out.

I suppose there are some people saying it doesn't need sorting out and all those gun deaths are acceptable price to pay for the right to bear arms.

I think Americans probably resent our commenting. I can't blame them.We have stuff wrong with our country. I don't we'd like them giving simplistic answers to complex problems.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 07:31 AM

Stigmatizing people with mental health problems as the cause of gun violence is incredibly foul, kicking people when they are down and can't kick back.
Unfortunately some of them can, and do, kick back. And if they possess firearms it can be horrifying.

That is not to say that mental health is the sole, or main, reason for US gun death statistics.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 06:06 AM

Stigmatizing people with mental health problems as the cause of gun violence is incredibly foul, kicking people when they are down and can't kick back.

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Iains
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 05:18 AM

Shaw I know you like to stalk and comment on my every post to try to show what a clever little shit you are. However you are trying to wreck a very serious thread on a very major issue.

My point of introducing the disparity between police killings in the US and UK is that American society shows no outrage over the statistics.
If the kill tatio in the UK was the same, government would fall, I am sure. The resulting furore would make the ban the bomb marches a total insignificance in comparison.
There are major differencse between the two societies and gun control
attitudes are but one of them. The US has always had guns and changing attitudes will not occur overnight. The link between smoking, cancer and inflicting the smoke on others took 60 years before a ban on public smoking in confined or designated areas became common.
   The right to gun ownership is enshrined in American Law.
Realistically overturning this right will not occur overnight. More security, more vetting, more restriction on gun type allowable, all these things most would accept, and more importantly, recognize the necessity. Over time perhaps a ban could be achieved, with broad acceptance by the vast majority.
   As a total outsider with less than a year in the States, it seems to me that the attitude of society towards weapons needs to be changed. This needs to occur in tandem with progressively tighter controls. Should guns be hung on a rack in a pickup or inside a secured container bolted to the bed?

Subject: RE: BS: They still do nothing about guns in USA
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 02:22 AM

Thanks for that, Dan. Most of us who have served in the U.S. military have used an M-16, the automatic version of the semi-automatic civilian AR-15. These guns aren't much good for hunting, because hunters want to be concealed and shoot from a greater distance and with greater accuracy.
The M-16 and AR-15 are built for combat - mostly for killing people at a relatively short distance. Hunters have no need for them, and even target shooters would be better off with single-shot rifles with better accuracy.
-Joe-