BS: Amazon is laughing at us

Subject: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Mar 18 - 06:02 AM

apparently Amazon's Alexa is producing random laughing sounds. Seattle Times. Should we suspect bad software, or the Russians? Or both?

Apart from Amazon laughing all the way to the bank that is!

In order to pay for something you have to now run the gauntlet of various adverts for Prime, and in the process I declined one product. Then yesterday I knew something was wrong, and I just had to ring them up, sure enough I had a free membership and would have had the money taken from my card. I now have a free membership that will lapse in a month.

Do we believe them?

Don't they think people get irritated & not buy through them as often? Where's the off switch?

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Mar 18 - 01:50 PM

I read about that Mr Red. Absolutely terrifying to have evil cackling in the middle of the night coming from the Alexa. I'd have freaked out completely!
Have to say though that we get quite a few things on Amazon. Their secondhand books are great, and their prices are very competitive. It's the only place I can buy Vim (scouring powder) and Algoflash (plant food) We buy something nearly every month. But I don't have the Prime arrangement. You're quite correct, they DO make it difficult to navigate a sale without inadvertently 'signing up' for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Mar 18 - 03:32 PM

I have never bought anything from Amazon and have no intention of ever doing so. Is it so bloody difficult to simply not patronize a gang of exploitative thugs?

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Iains
Date: 08 Mar 18 - 05:14 PM

Unfortunately, or fortunately almost anything can be ordered off Amazon, purchased at a competitive price and delivered to your door. Can such a business model be anything other than a success?. Internet shopping will cause a massive contraction of high street or mall outlets, the process has as yet, barely started. If I was anything to do with Amazon, like alexa, I think I would have a lot to laugh about as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Mar 18 - 05:39 PM

As we live in the countryside, it's not particularly easy for us to get into our main city, especially in winter. Being elderly, it's a bit of a struggle, and it costs to park (if there's a space!). It's much better to sit on the sofa, browse through Amazon's myriad offerings, and select at leisure, especially at Christmas time. As Iains says,the prices are very keen, and the courier brings the stuff right to one's door. What's not to like?
We've noticed, when we DO get into the city, that many stores are closing. The only shops staying open seem to be cafes, restaurants and fast-food outlets.
My only worry is about the well-being of Amazon workers. I've heard they're worked into the ground and exploited shamelessly. Also, the couriers have a dog's life, with an unrealistic quota of deliveries to make in a day. That does prey on my mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Mar 18 - 03:41 AM

So, you find the product on Amazon and then look for it elsewhere. Almost everything they sell is available on-line from retailers who are less brutal to their workforce and more honest about hidden charges.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Mar 18 - 03:43 AM

what's not to like?

Fake news. Not that Amazon is the only place. I went looking for an answerphone with 1471 feature. The only one claiming the feature is the one I bought.
Amazon (amongst others) told me it a was replacement for the dead one. It should dial 1471 after a call and record what it hears, like the dead one did. This one doesn't.
They basically don't know what they are selling. They regurgitate some (if at all) of what they are told.

The list of features and descriptions on Amazon for just about all products thereon is sketchy at best. Ebay usually has more info. And by comparing vendors you can spot some of the errors.

If you went into a shop you might see the box, or the assistant would show it to you. Not that Currys is much better at description. Staff variable.

As you can see I spend a lot of time happytapping when looking for a techy item and this time fake news has failed me.

But on the bright side, we can't blame Trump for the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Iains
Date: 09 Mar 18 - 06:40 AM

For the UK it is the mail order equivalent of Gamages. In rural areas Amazon has no competition. Where I live delivery is never to the door.
It will either be the local post office or a shop providing a courier drop off facility. The nearest sizeable town is offers limited choice, a long expensive drive, and outrageous parking fees. Amazon will always tell me if the item is available, if it can be imported, the cost, the delivery charge and tracking details.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Mar 18 - 07:09 AM

We have made price comparisons many times with various items. But Amazon is always the cheapest, which makes me think the major stores are going to have to shape up and compete. No wonder people prefer online shopping.
I always give the courier a small tip, and offer a hot/cold drink or a cake (usually accepted)

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 09 Mar 18 - 12:37 PM

Don’t know, Jack. We sometimes tell ourselves we shouldn’t use them but keep on doing so…

I agree with Senofou in some ways. Amazon offers what we want and getting out can be difficult. Our alternatives for some things might be the 3 mile each way round trip to Cromer with difficult parking, possibly a long walk for an arthritic mother (And I don’t drive) and maybe not finding what you want. Beyond that, probably a 30 mile trip to Norwich unless I thought there was a chance of finding something at say the excellent Blythe and Wright hardware in Sherringham… Town/city shopping is pretty much gone for us and that won’t change.

Perphaps a question could be why can’t others do the same as Amazon? Of course that cuts out the smaller places to but Tesco seem to have tried and their website is a mess. Argos are useful if you want something the same day but again they fail compared to Amazon on ease of finding things, getting ideas whether a product is good with reviews, etc. at least some of Amazon’s success is down to getting what should be basics right.

Price is one area I might disagree with S on. Even within Amazon, items may be cheaper without the Prime delivery (which I believe costs about £70 PA) from other sellers and you can find prices for some things cheaper elsewhere. To give a couple of examples this year. In connection with some kitchen things, we used knivesandtools for a basic set of Worstof Gourmet knives £37.95 for set of chefs, paring knife and a sharpener – chef’s knife alone is that on Amazon and I can’t find that set there.

You can still shop around and sometimes get better deals. Perhaps the difficulty there is that every company you deal with is another account, more card details added one way or other…

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Mar 18 - 01:17 PM

Ha! Blythe & Wright! Fantastic shop Jon, know it well!

Here are some examples of stuff we've bought recently on Amazon:-

4X bottles of Malta Guinness (non-alcoholic, unobtainable elsewhere) £8

A large bag of Thomas The Tank Engine/Disney Princesses stickers for our neighbours' children £2 each

Adhesive large house numbers with the street printed underneath X3 for our wheelie bins £2

4X canisters of Vim (can't find it anywhere else) £8

pair cosy, woolly washable slippers £6

I think one can see these prices are very good, and include postage. And all brought right to our door.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Iains
Date: 09 Mar 18 - 01:52 PM

Amazon. The future is here!



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/10/technology/amazon-robots-workers.html

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: leeneia
Date: 09 Mar 18 - 04:53 PM

I used to love going shopping. Now almost every store blasts poor-white loser music at me, while I wander around a store with no directory. I hate it. If I can order merchandise and have it delivered, I will.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Mar 18 - 05:44 PM

I have never found the service from Amazon to be anything but superb.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 09 Mar 18 - 08:09 PM

I have never found the service from Amazon to be anything but superb.

Ordering an 8 way extension and receiving a bath mat was quite amusing. A parcel seemingly lost in the ether was a bit perplexing and some of the delivery attempted type things (as can also happen with couriers other than Amazon Logistics) can be downright dishonest...

In fairness, I'd rate them as usually very reliable though.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 03:51 AM

New Kathryn Roberts & Sean Lakeman CD coming today from Amazon - only £9.83 for half length!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 04:09 AM

We allowed Thatcher to dismantle the trade unions, followed by the connivance in that by successive Blair governments. The upshot is the naked exploitation of workers and the imposition of insecure work contracts on almost everyone. Sure, Amazon is bad news. As is Premier Inn, Tesco, Asda, Poundland, most care homes and courier delivery firms and all the tawdry rest who have taken advantage. You can take a principled stand against one, some or all of them, but we have to breathe the polluted air sometimes. As a person of limited means and not being a charitable institution, I'll hold my nose and still buy stuff from the cheapest sources I can find. Just being honest, you know...

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 04:35 AM

I love the bathmat for an 8-way extension!

I'm always apt to smile at the disproportionate size of the inevitable cardboard box in which the item arrives. The other day it was almost the size of a blooming coffin. Inside was... a cat litter-tray scoop!

I know what you mean Steve. I often muse upon the lives of workers in other countries who pick and pack grapes, bananas, cashews, coconuts and so on. I still buy these things, but goodness knows if they're 'ethically produced'.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 08:15 AM

Buying tech from Amazon is a lottery. Going blind is the best way to describe it. Their descriptions are skimpy at best and anything technical, rare. As is my custom. Argos is arguably more descriptive, E-Bay certainly. But when the only place the chosen featured item is via them.............

On the plus side their own packaging would appear to be totally re-recyclable. Brown paper stuffing & paper adhesive sealing tape. Or maybe it was just that the last delivery came from the Lichtenstein depot.

But on the OP - Alexa is a spy in your living room. And currently a spy with a cackle. And who wouldn't take a tilt at the biggest web player for potentially big rewards? Like a slice of your information? With a little Trojan or Zombie in their server farm somewhere - someone would pay to slow them down, (or pay to remove the malware). And it doesn't have to be Russian government, the St Petersburg mafioski are real and real clever.

And an Amazon accessible door lock - Jeeeeeeeze. An open door kinda security. But people will buy into it and play that lottery until one day................

"Include me out" Louis B Mayre

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 09:05 AM

I've seen that Alexa thing on the adverts. But I'm not quite clear what it's for. A man asks it to turn the living room blue (!). A lady asks it to call a friend to ascertain whether a little visitor can have ice-cream for breakfast. It orders more provisions when they run out. I can't fathom anyone other than a disabled paraplegic needing these services. Does anyone on here have an Alexa, and if so what does 'she' do for you? (Apart from cackling like a witch in the middle of the night, which would give me a cardiac arrest!)

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 09:09 AM

Pease note that an 8 way extension used as a bath mat should NEVER be plugged in unless........

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 11:35 AM

Their descriptions of book editions and their linkage to customer reviews are essentially fraudulent, particularly if Kindle is involved.

Never mind their pretenses that Project Gutenberg doesn't exist, and that they don't minimally repackage their stuff and pretend it's their own.

That said, I've bought a lot of books from them; you just have to be very careful. It's a weird relationship. You don't expect to be shortchanged, overcharged, and have your backpack rifled in your go-to bookstore.

Another good one: I got on Amazon Prime in part because I have no vehicle and am furnishing my new dwelling, but in part because of their music offerings--which are pretty spectacular. But then I noticed songs in my chosen library were becoming unavailable--and when I tried to bring them up, they told me I could access them via a subscription to Amazon Unlimited [sic].

When they confiscated my beloved copy of Lorraine Ellison's "Stay with me, Baby"--which I had actually bought, paid for, and downloaded to my computer--I just about lost it. Instead, I coughed up another 99 cents.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 11:40 AM

I buy cloth- and paperback books from Amazon, I pick up my audiobooks from the library. I don't trust Amazon's voice-activated devices and I would never use those button things they offer that you can simply place around the house and press when you are running low on something. This is all too close to Fahrenheit 451.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 11:50 AM

I get my book reviews from goodreads.com and buy used and Kindle books from Amazon. No problems but if they don't drop NRA TV within the next few weeks I'm going to quit them entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 12:19 PM

I do know someone who finds Alexa or something similar quite useful. Some after effects of what started with an accident left him finding some previously routine tasks quite difficult. I believe it does help him with things like organising his day.

I think in previous days, he, like me would have been more likely to have looked for something probably along the lines of a caldav/carddav server on his own Linux box as a solution to calenders and tasks but he's finding he has to go with the ready made solutions now.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 01:23 PM

Don't get me wrong, Alexa has potential for a stupendously rich and open-ended set of features. But the price you pay is giving away a lot of yourself to them.
And although there is a don't listen button, the whole selling point is it IS listening anytime you want it. So people will leave it listening to them. And all it takes is bad server software from miscreants with a Trojan to get in there. The odds are that it will happen. They are too big a target, the pay-off is huge. The effort worthwhile.

Remember RBS with its two seriously embarrassing outages? Software upates? Yea sure, when you are hacked you update your software. And you remain coy on the reason. Another big target, and big payoff for the miscreants.

Alexa is a whole new vector for the mafioski.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 03:42 AM

New Kathryn Roberts & Sean Lakeman CD arrived last night from Amazon!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 04:15 AM

Last Christmas, I wanted to get my husband a new phone. Rather naughtily, we trundled off to PC World (not all that far from us, much nearer than the city) and had a good look at all the choices, while a nice chap explained the features of each one. We noted the prices, and said we'd think about it.
Trundled home again and went on Amazon. Exactly the same makes of phones but infinitely cheaper! I got him the one he chose, and it arrived within two days.
We aren't here to assist greedy tech shops to make huge profits, so we have no qualms about seeking the keenest price for exactly the same item. We'd have been daft if we'd paid all that in PC blooming World!

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 11:04 AM

Amazon has a whole bag of tricks for gaming price comparisons. You can never believe them when the data they provide says they're the cheapest.

An independent comparison site I use a lot is for used books: http://used.addall.com. Amazon is sometimes the cheapest, but counting on it would lose you a lot of money.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 11:22 AM

Don't forget that
Mudcat has a link from which
an Amazon purchase results in a Mudcat donation.

scroll down to the bottom of the page

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: leeneia
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 04:54 PM

Good job, keberoxu.

I don't want an Alexa.   Walking over to the stereo and the fridge is how I get my exercise.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 05:27 PM

Have you compared Addall to Bookfinder? It usually gives me the lowest prices and the search results are also from many different sellers.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 11:43 AM

It's nice to know about Addall and Bookfinder. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Mar 18 - 09:43 AM

And another shitty mega-corporate employer...

https://inews.co.uk/news/livingston-tesco-workers-offered-1-52-food-voucher-for-battling-through-the-snow/

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Mar 18 - 11:47 AM

I haven't heard anything about Amazon mistreating employees, but then, I haven't looked.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Mar 18 - 11:54 AM

You don't need to look very hard.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Mar 18 - 04:11 AM

I wouldn't over-criticize Tescos for offering incentives. It changes the dynamics of individual decisions. Those who think they could try might investigate the possibility and are rewarded for their diligence. Those that would be uncertain about their ability or the terrain would be philosophical.

Imagine it without. The workers who do get to work look around and realise there are those who are just as able who use the weather as an excuse not to. It does not make for an harmonious workplace. Lack of harmony makes things like a just in time outfit (eg a supermarket) work less efficiently - long after the episode of bad weather.

There were TV reports of a nurse who trudged 2 hours to get to hospital, because: "to relieve her colleagues who had stayed at work". Let's face it, you need harmony amongst hospital staff. Well I will one day! And I don't know when that will be, but I will need it.

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Mar 18 - 04:32 AM

I agree with offering rewards and incentives, but £1.52?? That's just an insult, not an incentive.
I also think the so-called 'minimum wage' is derisory. My husband gets £7.50 per hour, going up to £7.83 next month. This is well below the 'living wage'. Luckily he enjoys his job, and our combined income is not too bad. But if he was alone, however would he manage?

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 02:28 AM

Amazon has reaffirmed its commitment to user privacy after a patent filed by the company emerged that uses ‘voice-sniffing’ technology to listen for key words in conversations.

A patent filed in the US describes how listening to conversations with “sniffer algorithms” could be used to learn about customer likes and dislikes for the purpose of targeted advertising and product recommendations. article

They are claiming not to use the technology. So why patent? If the idea is novel enough to be granted - it does prevent rivals from doing it and thus stealing a march. Or forcing (say) Goggle to invalidate the patent by virtue of "prior art". Maybe that is Goggle's ace card if found out & challenged!

But how would you know they (or any they) are not doing it already? Only by deliberately tricking it.

Laughing at us? Sniggering for sure!

Subject: RE: BS: Amazon is laughing at us
From: CupOfTea
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 01:33 PM

It's more than Alexa laughing at us - it's the way Amazon has invaded everyone's lives; the effects are just as dire as all the snooping that Facebook and Google do. The information that can be overheard on a device like this is substantial, and who is controlling who has access to it? Their ability go get all sorts of things easily, and frequently for a discount price, is ever-so-seductive. "it won't hurt if I get just this ONE thing..." But retailers are closing, small producers products don't get seen in any market if Amazon doesn't fancy them, the workers are treated horribly. To get the exotic things, it's difficult to find them, without Amazon having their hand in the exchange.

The effect of Amazon's power is much like a monopoly - but it covers just about any product one could buy. I see it as a larger version of the damage Walmart has done in many places: closing of small shops, job loss, and jobs at Walmart so low paid that full time employees are on public assistance and using food banks. Appliances that are poorly, cheaply made, impossible to repair, became the norm for all but top of the line because that's what Walmart wanted.

Perhaps I'm just a curmudgeon who likes to grouse, but I do not like being backed into a corner that requires me to deal with this megamonopolylithic company. My favourite grocery store, though not the most economical, was where I used to be able to count on getting speciality items (powdered egg whites, Cope's Dried corn) and when they stopped carrying them, I was told "you can get them on Amazon"

aeeeeeeiiiiii!

Joanne, in frustration, in Cleveland