BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)

Subject: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 10:20 PM

It's been a long 500 days and the way the forces of reaction (both reactionary and non-) Apparently our President (I can't say both the title and the name without throwing up a little bit) was on the wire ear ringy thingy with PM Trudeau and said, just kidding I'm sure, “Didn’t you guys burn down the White House?”

Which brings me to one of my favorite songs (almost).

So the New York Times leaps into virtue mode to correct Mr. er still can't say it, presidential guy on his for sure wrong take on history. They assert lamely that there was no Canada at the time. So it's 'humiliation accomplished' on Mr. can't get anything right. But hey, their quote doesn't allow for New York guy talk. He said: "you guys." just a step down from various mudcat folk who like to say "you people" when deep in thread debate. "You guys" means whatever mr. future ex-prez chooses it to mean at the moment. In this case it means the precedent to Canada, the Brits who were occupying the north part of North America. So he ain't actually wrong. (Remember you electricity people, the President is neither a liar or a truth-teller. he's an ungrounded neutral).

And now, here, musically, comes a Canadian group to give lyric to the events (so if this thread really belongs above the bar, Mr. mod, please relocate):

From The Arrogant Worms

ooooh come back proud Canadians
To before you had TV
No hockey night in Canada!
There was no CBC (oh my god)

In 1812 Madison was mad
He was the President you know
well he thought he'd tell the British
Where they ought to go
He thought he'd invade Canada
He thought that he was tough
Instead we went to Washingon...

[chorus]
And burned down all his stuff!
And the white house burned burned burned down
And we're the ones that did it
It burned burned burned
while the President ran and cried
It burned burned burned down
And things were very historical
and the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies yeah
wah wah wah!
In the War of 1812

Hillbillies from Kentucky
Dressed in green and red
Left home to fight in Canada
But they returned home dead

Its the only war the Yankees lost
Except for Vietnam
And also the Alamo
and the bay of... Ham

The loser was America
the winner was ourselves
so join right in and gloat about
the war of 1812

[chorus]

In 1812 we were just sittin around
Puttin crops into the ground
we heard the soldiers coming and we didnt like that sound
so we took a boat to Washington
and burned it to the ground

ooooh we fired our guns but the Yankees kept-a-comin
There wasn't quite as many as there was a while ago
we fired once more and the Yankees started runnin
Down the Mississippi to the gulf of Mexico-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-ooo

They ran through the snow and they ran through the forest
They ran through the bushes where the beavers wouldn't go
The ran so fast they forgot to take their culture
Back to America and the gulf of Mexico-oo-oo-ooo

so if you go to Washington
its buildings clean and nice
bring a pack of matches
and we'll burn the White House twice!

and the Whitehouse burned burned burned
but the Americans wont admit it
it burned burned burned
it burned it burned it burned
it burned burned burned
how that made them mad
and the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
wah wah wah
in the War of 1812 (dragged out)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: meself
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 10:45 PM

" just kidding I'm sure"

You are? When has trump ever shown any sign of having a sense of humour? His idea of a joke is mimicking a disabled person.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 12:49 PM

Heh! Heh! Well, the burning of Washington was a British retaliation for an earlier American attack on Canada. The American troops landed in 1813 at the city of York (now Toronto) and burned down the government buildings there before departing back to the American side of the lake. So the British decided to retaliate by doing the same thing to Washington. Seems like a reasonable tit for tat to me. The USA isn't generally used to getting its own back in military matters when it attacks other countries, but that time they did.

The New York Times, of course, was merely seizing on a completely flimsy excuse to ridicule their favorite target, Donald Trump. As you point out, he said "you guys", and that simply means whoever was in power in Canada at the time, which was the British, obviously. The Times was nitpicking in a pointless manner to suggest that this means Trump didn't know his history regarding who governed Canada at that time.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 01:57 PM

I'll admit to coming from an American attitude toward Canada, long since corrected (somewhat). But this is how bad it was: I was in a library trying to ignore what I was supposed to be studying and meandering through the leftover books on the study table. One was a Canadian history book and my immediate reaction was: "Oh? Canadians have history?"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: meself
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 03:27 PM

So - the real serious issue is not trump turning against the US's most firm allies with trade attacks: it's that the New York Times wrote a lame article. Good to see you guys have your priorities right.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 04:50 PM

The French Canadian in me joins with Mr. Trudeau in being insulted at these spurious Trump White House arson allegations. Surely, it was not French Canadians who burned down the White House...
I don't know which side of the Detroit River we were on at the time, but I'm sure it was the right side. The last time we went to see it, the family homestead was a striptease joint next to the bus station in Windsor, so you can tell we come from hearty stock....

-Joe Ouellette Langlois Offer-

"Proud to Be Canadian" (Arrogant Worms): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-T3coiH-ss

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 05:13 PM

Fun song robo.

We know that Trump gets his history wrong as often as a kid who skims a Barron's summary before finals.

This week the spokes person for the US State Dept. said on June 6th "We have worked closely with Germany going all the way back to D-Day."

I know. Diplomaticly and historicly that is wrong on more levels than I can count.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 05:21 PM

"We have worked closely with Germany going all the way back to D-Day." From a State Department spokesperson? I couldn't find documentation of that, Donuel.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 05:54 PM

I couldn't find documentation of the statement, period.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: meself
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 07:14 PM

Well - I believe it was Rachel Maddow I heard reporting that last night. Fake news, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 08:02 PM

Ho-kay! The speaker is Heather Nauert,
and the quote is:

"Looking back in the history books,
today is the 71st anniversary of the speech
that announced the Marshall Plan.
Tomorrow is the anniversary of the D-Day invasion.
We obviously have a very long history
with the government of Germany,
and we have a strong relationship with the government of Germany. "

And, if I can make the link work, here she is, saying so on camera.

Heather Nauert

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 08:23 PM

Yeah, last week we passed the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Belleau Wood, Lots of Yanks versus lots of Germans, but obviously not exclusively. It was the first really big battle of the U.S. in World War I and it assured the Germans that even though they'd freed up significant forces from the WW I Russian front, the Allies had potentially millions of fresh Western troops to draw from, and they could fight.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: meself
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 08:29 PM

Not as bad as the wording Joe had, but ... aaaw-kward ... !

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 08:52 PM

Not the wording  I  had "meself" - I directly quoted Donuel's misquote. Thanks to keberoxu for finding the actual video. What the spokesman said was awkward, but I think that Rachel Maddow was cruel in the way she twisted it.

And by the time Donuel got through with it, it was an outright lie.

So, yeah, yesterday a spokesperson from the State Department said something that came out awkward. It happens to all of us at times.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: meself
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 09:21 PM

Apologies, Joe - I hate it when people do that sort of thing, and now I've done it ... !

I'm a fan of Rachel - but, watching that whole clip, I don't think Rachel's report was quite fair. There have been a couple of times that I've seen her really overdo the significance of someone's clumsy wording.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 10:13 PM

This is how Trump 'wins' by exciting extreme passions. Everyone knows he has a 'free' relationship with the truth spectrum (He is a BSer, but that's for another thread). Unfortunately he lowers the quality of debate on all sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 11:58 PM

Sure Canada has history, "meself". Even Belgium has history! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: meself
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 12:39 AM

Huh? Do you have me mixed-up with someone?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: JennieG
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 02:11 AM

Did y'all know that Britain transported some Canadians to Oz in the 1830s? Canada Bay in Sydney is named for some of them, while others went to Tasmania. One poor bloke spent 18 years working as a shepherd in Tassie - because no one could find him to tell him he had been pardoned and could go back home!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: meself
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 10:07 AM

That was in the wake 1837 rebellions. It was a small world even back then - Sir John Franklin, later to perish in what is now Canada's Arctic, was governor of one of the penal colonies many of the convicted rebels ended up in.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: meself
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 10:08 AM

(... in the wake OF THE 1837 rebellions)!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 10:19 PM

Yeah. Burned down the Library of Congress and would have burned the Patent Office except that the Director of Patents shamed the British officer in charge by calling him "a barbarian" for even thinking about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 12:00 AM

Leave it to a librarian. But where are your citations, Rap?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 11:56 AM

Damn near lost that war. The battle of New Orleans turned the tide along with anti war sentiment by British taxpayers. Since Jackson became involved Trump probably skimmed Wikipedia.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 01:22 PM

Uppity and Lowly Canada certainly had a hand in their arson. And First Nations.

I think Just-In should get 45 to Ottawa for a State Dinner and, during dessert, casually mention where the dinnerware is from. >;-)

Though, given the most recent "tweet attack", the blowhard buffoon may never be invited. You can push a Canuck only so far... eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: meself
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 06:29 PM

Well, I think we're about to see how far. I had thought this 1812 business, coming out of nowhere - I mean, hadn't we all gotten over that a long, long time ago? - was just a complete fluke. Now, it seems like it was calculated as the beginning of a pre-hostilities propaganda blitz to demonize the enemy. Apparently, there's a 'special place in hell' for Justin Trudeau. (And, no doubt, a special place in heaven for Vladimir Putin). I'm not finding it funny anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 07:39 PM

For the record, Donuel, it's well known that the Battle of New Orleans took place after the war had been 'officially' concluded. But maybe you know that and are simulating a Trump-like grasp of the facts. . .

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 08:06 PM

The Battle of New Orleans made absolutely no difference to the outcome of the war. It took place. After the peace treaty had been signed, but the news never reached either side down in the Gulf of Mexico in time to stop perhaps the most futile battle in history.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 08:44 PM

Here is the Wikipedia article. That's a good place from which to start.

Battle of New Orleans song.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 09:07 PM

I recently toured the Jackson home in TN and the Jackson spin there had Jackson practically defeating the British Empire.
But as for my 'historical' account I'm in freefall until further notice so don't expect any journalistic accuracy from me.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jun 18 - 10:26 PM

We never have expected accuracy or facts from you, Donuel.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 12:23 AM

Just as we don't expect accuracy or facts or objectivity from you, BB.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 07:08 AM

et tu Acme?
I was here for a laugh, education, a horn of outrage, a respite from lonliness, the music, curiosity, writing practice, virtual friends or answers to casandra questions.

I was not here to follow the drummer of another's criterion.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 11:43 AM

Meanwhile I recall Roger Moore producing a movie where cold war reduction was so unprofitable that a US President decided to make Canada the #1 national security threat and enemy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: meself
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 11:59 AM

We're watching that movie now.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 02:10 PM

What gives with this
handshake foolishness!

White thumbprints on the hand afterwards, indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: meself
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 02:49 PM

What's your point? The only thing chump respects is brute force - Macron is playing the bully's game. Now: what's with the aggression toward Canada? Does anyone down there care?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 03:18 PM

Blame Canada!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Jun 18 - 09:47 PM

Now it's a music thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jun 18 - 08:11 PM

The Simpsons weight in: Skip ahead to 2:30 for the payoff.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jun 18 - 10:33 AM

Trump is beyond wrong

He's incoherent,

stuck in get

even mode


!


In the capitol bld. pressing Trump's buttons is called poking the bear.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jun 18 - 10:45 AM

Surely he must be right occasionally (even if by accident).
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump not always wrong (War of 1812)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 04:41 PM

"Poking the bear"? Surely that's rather too flattering. "Poking Jaba the Hutt" might be more appropriate. A potentially lethal overlarge slug.