BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.

Subject: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 04:19 AM

Simmering for years now, and lead item on BBC news today.
Labour is still refusing to accept the full document, rejecting the examples that define the usage of the definition.
Margaret Hodge MP (Labour) is to be disciplined over her protest about it.

The problem may be that accepting the definitions would expose senior people to being in breach of them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44919875

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 04:27 AM

From BBC (25 mins)
"She told BBC Radio 4's Today she stood by her criticism of the Labour leader, saying: "What has happened over the last months - from failure to respond to anti-Semitism against Labour Party members, from failure to respond to the massive demonstration, unique demonstration by the Jewish community, culminating in the failure to adopt in full the universally used definition of anti-Semitism is just a bridge too far."
She insisted she would not leave the party, saying: "I am going to fight within the Labour Party - and it is terrible that in 2018 I have to do that." "

"Jewish MPs Ruth Smeeth and Louise Ellman will submit an emergency motion at Monday's Labour meeting calling for the party to amend its guidelines to include the IHRA definition.
Critics of the party's new guidelines included the chief rabbi, Ephraim Mirvis, who said Labour would be "on the wrong side" of the fight against racism unless it toughened up its stance."

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 04:35 AM

Ignore.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 05:06 AM

Who are you to order people to ignore the main news story in UK today, just because you find it embarrassing?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 05:31 AM

"The IHRA definition is good enough for the government, more than 100 local authorities and 31 countries. It should have been good enough for the Labour Party"

Says it all really. Labour need to clean up their act.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 05:39 AM

Ignored Steve
The terrorist behavior of the Israeli state and its murder of twice as many unarmed demonstrators has made clear what Labour's antisemitism is about
Antisemitism is now criticising Israel and the demonstations by thousand of Israeli Jews has made that clear how much it has to do with teh Jewish people
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 05:40 AM

"twice as many unarmed demonstrators as Sharpville" - of course
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 06:12 AM

Jim
A masterpiece on ignoring the thread subject and Flaming off topic

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 06:26 AM

No it isn't
Accusations of antisemitism against the Labour Party began immediately after Corbyn declared support for the Palestinian People (within weeks) and that has been a traveable issue ever since.
At no time before this has antisemitism been an issue with the Labour Party - on the contrary - they have led the fight against antiseemitism since the time Tories were forming an alternative government to take power when "Herr Hitler wins the War" -and before that - the Labour Party was formed largely by the support of Jews fleeing the European Pigroms, for crtying out loud
This has never been about The Jewish People (many of whom have said the same)
It is about smearing the Labour Party by using The Jewish People as a club.
If you want to claim that this is not what this is about - address your remarks to the millions of Jews who say it is - I know what this is about
Jim Carroll
Now the the Irish Seanad (Senate) has voted to boycott goods from the Occupied Territories, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to be told that the Irish administration is crawling with Jew Haters.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 07:41 AM

The topic is vexatious, Kenny, started by a vexatious poster, and after eleven posts it has already turned rancid. Perhaps you missed the previous Mudcat bouts on this non-topic that invariably turn sour. Perhaps one fine day the poster will start a thread on the rampant Islamophobia in the party he supports or the hush-hush on child abuse connived in by the Christian faith that he also supports. In the meantime, revel in his hypocrisy for a minute, then ignore. Only a suggestion.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 07:43 AM

So predictable...
Here he goes again... you only tolerate the right kind of jews who have it in for the Labour party...

ok Keith you win.. labour is evil antifa, and we should all vote "Britain First"...


I know where you get your ideas from...
I monitor their youtube channels for a grim laugh...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 07:43 AM

They have accepted the bits that genuinely do relate to anti-Semitism and have dumped the attempts at pro-Israel censorship sneaked in by Zionist arm-twisting. I don't usually find much to agree with in LP policy but I don't see a problem with that.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:08 AM

MP Dame Margaret Hodge reportedly called Corbyn a "fucking racist and anti-Semite" to his face, when questioned about it by reporters she replied that she didn't say "fucking".........love it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:18 AM

Margaret Hodge, her of dodgy dealings and proven incompetence over decades, is even more vexatious than Keith. Go on, look her up!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:20 AM

"why not go back to the pantomime where you belong jimmie,"
Why not grow up Iains
If you have a response give it - behave as you are and it is you who will close this thread down, not me

I hate threads defending antisemitism by associating the behaviour of an extremist right wing state WITH THE JEWISH PEOPLE

"Oh yes it is"
I have offered my reasons - where are yours Kenny, I see no ships!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:27 AM

bob - Well she effin well should have - politics has been taken over by prim over-sensitive puritans...

I'd rather have coarse sweary down to earth honest politicians
than polite smarmy two faced treacherous back stabbers like the blairites...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:30 AM

Jim you always see no ships in other peoples comments so whats new
For those interested in the topic :

Differences from the article quoted who is for and who is against?

The code does reproduce the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's "working definition" of anti-Semitism and lists behaviours likely to be regarded as anti-Semitic - but critics point out that it leaves out four examples provided by the IHRA definition:

1 Accusing Jewish people of being more loyal to Israel than their home country

2 Claiming that Israel's existence as a state is a racist endeavour

3 Requiring higher standards of behaviour from Israel than other nations
4 Comparing contemporary Israeli policies to those of the Nazis

But Labour has insisted that while the examples are not reproduced word for word, they are covered elsewhere in the new code.
Labour's code says it is "wrong" to accuse Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel than their own country. And it says that using Nazi comparisons in Israel-Palestine debates "carries a strong risk of being regarded as prejudicial or grossly detrimental to the party", triggering a disciplinary investigation.
Labour's code says: "The party is clear that the Jewish people have the same right to self-determination as any other people.
"To deny that right is to treat the Jewish people unequally and is therefore a form of anti-Semitism."
The code also says Israel's conduct should be assessed "against the requirements of international law or the standards of behaviour expected of democratic states" and that double standards should not be applied.
A party spokeswoman said: "The code of conduct adopts the IHRA (International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) definition and expands on and contextualises the IHRA examples to produce robust, legally sound guidelines that a political party can apply to disciplinary cases."
Tory vice-chairman Rehman Chishti said: "Labour's failure to adopt the IHRA definition of anti-Semitic racism in full is shameful."

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:35 AM

Non Jews rejecting what Jews define as anti-Semitism and redefining it for them.......yup folks this is actually happening in 2018 in the Labour Party of Jeremy Corbyn at a time when anti-Semitism has reached record levels in the UK and Jews are, once again, feeling unsafe in the cities of Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:39 AM

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/labour-party-antisemitism-jeremy-corbyn-ihra-nec-margaret-hodge-a8458896.html

Pretty much as Kenny calls it!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:41 AM

Kenny
A definition that one protected the Jewish People of the kind of attacks that sent six million of them to their deaths has now been adapted politically to protect a regime from criticism - the result of this is that one third of the population of Israel is in favour of Ethnic Cleansing and the Jeewish people around the world are up in arms at being excluded from being Jews by new laws that are based on Zionist Fundamentalism - that happened last week
THIS IS THE MOST ARTICULATE ANALYSIS of so-called Laboutr antisemitism I have come across to date
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:49 AM

Has anyone in the right wing media reported what Corbyn supporting Jews for Labour think of this new code...???

They are the folks I would most take seriously, and whose opinions I would have highest regard for.

If they are unhappy with details of the code, then there needs to be more consideration of it's drafting.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 09:06 AM

So why have Labour not adopted the definition and examples?
Every other party has.
Police and CPS has.
And 40 other countries.

This all comes from within the party, not outsiders.
It was the main story this morning on BBC. I did not make it so.

It is up for discussion. What is Labour's problem with this document that everyone accepted long ago?
No-one has suggested an answer.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 09:32 AM

What is Labour's problem with this document that everyone accepted long ago?

It's obvious what their problem with the definition is - which is the same problem with some posters here - it is that it exposes them as anti-Semites, which, despite their efforts to disguise it, is glaringly obvious.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 09:33 AM

People how bowed to Israel's pressure to adopt the politicising of a perfectly simple definition antisemitism = the hatred and denigration of the Jewish People
Accusations of Antisemitism have become a weapon in the hands of an extremist regime openly co-operating with other extremist regimes - including fascist ones
Israel has much of the world over a barrel - accuse it's leadership of anything and you become an antisemite - hence the blanket of silence surrounding the mass murder of over a hundred unarmed demonstrators
That has never happened within my lifetime
If Labour has any sense it will face these accusations head on
No attacks on the Jewish people have ever been n prove - not ever
Beyond that, Labour has no case to answer, no critic of Israel has.

Common justice and common sense dictates that if an accusation is made it is up to the accuser to prove guilt, not the accused to prove innocence
Everything else is politicking bullshit
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 09:39 AM

Jim
if yopu had posted "The-truth-behind-the-charge-of-anti-Semitism-in-Britain" instead of the post
"From: Jim Carroll - PM Date: 23 Jul 18 - 05:39 AM "
it would have been on topic instead of the rant u posted.

You do yourself absolutely no favours by postng "hot" and leaving yourself open to possible "trolling" acusations
I would refer you to the well worn words of the
Rt Hon John Bercow MP "Calm down, calm down"

BTW "seeing no ships" is alledgedly quoted as being from when Admiral Lord Nelson had his telescope to his blind eye at the Battle of Copenhagen N'est pas

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 09:47 AM

This thread is about ANTISEMITISM IN THE LABOUR PARTY. It was started by KEITH A. OF HERTFORD, who has a good deal of form in setting up and polluting threads with this topic, while the US moderators of this board were asleep in bed. The initiator of the thread hoped to extend its longevity by putting a set of anodyne-looking initials in the thread title instead of the far more honest word ANTISEMITISM. Please don't let this man sucker you into discussing this with him. It's a waste of time and it will serve to bring the forum into disrepute when it inevitably turns nasty.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 09:57 AM

If you're going to try to make yourself look 'clever' by using a French expression, at least make an effort to get it right, otherwise the exact opposite effect is all that's achieved.

It's "N'est-ce pas?".

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 09:58 AM

Absolutely correct Steve - our resident troll has made a twat of himself yet again.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 09:58 AM

Had there not been a groundswell of opinion supporting the allegation,it would not have been picked up by the mainstream media. Trying to claim it is a poisonous assertion simply because you cannot deal with it is simply a cop out. Once again Shaw your actions speak louder than words.
You need to do a little more than jump up and down, shouting no,no,no if you wish to dispute the assertion that the labour party clearly has a problem with anti semitism.

I think we all know who has "a good deal of form in setting up and polluting threads with this topic" and it ain't Keef.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 10:08 AM

Pfr,
I know where you get your ideas from...
I monitor their youtube channels for a grim laugh...

I am disappointed that you would lie, presumably to discredit me, and surprised that you want to since none of this came from me.

Steve and PFR, this topic was discussed yesterday on Marr, Sunday Politics and Westminster hour, and today was the BBC lead item.
It is perfectly reasonable to raise the question here. Why will Labour not adopt the IHRA like everyone else?
What is their problem?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 10:09 AM

"Had there not been a groundswell of opinion supporting the allegation,it would not have been picked up by the mainstream media."

Come on Iains - you are not so naive to believe that..

I know from your positive posts on the Russia threads that you are far more canny, and media savvy...

But as this is another of kqueefs anti-labour threads, I can understand your opportunist tactics to join in bashing a party you firmly oppose...

That's fair enough...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 10:11 AM

Daily Mirror this morning,
"Jeremy Corbyn braced for crunch Labour anti-Semitism meeting as veteran MP Margaret Hodge calls in her lawyers
The row began when Labour's ruling NEC failed to adopt the full International …"

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 10:11 AM

Thanks for the correction Backwoodsman ….. "N'est-ce pas?".

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 10:17 AM

My pleasure entirely, Kenny - as Mrs Backwoodsperson is wont to point out, 'Pedant' is my middle name! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 10:27 AM

wanna be careful publicly admitting to being a 'pedant'...

Too many halfwit right wing vigilante thugs might mishear that word...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 10:31 AM

LOL! I'm bricking it! Not...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 10:33 AM

MARGARET HODGE

WHY LABOUR REFUSES TO SIGN THE "CONTROVERSIAL" CODE

Some comments from other labour mambers
Margaret Hodge is a member of Labour Friends of Israel, a pro-Netanyahu lobby group that has opposed Jeremy Corbyn from the moment he became leader. LFI refused to condemn the Israeli government for murdering 100s of unarmed Palestinians in the #LandDayMassacre. Shame on them.

New conversation
Clare
@Clare_Scotland
Jul 17
More
Replying to @WarmongerHodges @Hasselschmuck
Hodge is actually anti Semitic - Arabs are also semites and to deny the genocide in Palestine is akin to what Jewish people suffered during ww2 hence the many Jewish critics of Zionism
Scotty Ariss

@scotty_ariss
Jul 17
More
I also thought this but, most definitions only include the Jewish faith...... interesting.

New conversation
Ian Anders
@anders_ian
Jul 18
More
Replying to @WarmongerHodges
I hate antisemitism. BUT I Hate even more people who use it as a tool or weapon to discredit someone. As Hodge and Umunna are doing. They are the lowest of all. They have no respect for anyone only themselves and their corrupt agenda
Joane Cleminson
?
@joane_cleminson
Jul 18
More
THEY SMEAR HIM, BECAUSE THEY FEAR HIM. SIMPLES. ??

New conversation
Mark lamar
@Marklamar20
Jul 17
More
Replying to @WarmongerHodges @SUTONGIROTCIP
I think it's about time we Who want a Corbyn led Government need to start being heard loudly,enough is enough with these blairites friends of apartheid Israel putting down Corbyn. Almost 600,000 members against a pathetic motley crew of saboteurs should start putting pressure on.

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 10:34 AM

Didn't Franz von Suppé or Francesco Suppé Demelli (18 April 1819 – 21 May 1895) write an overture to that (along with a poet)
Google is a wonderful thing

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 10:38 AM

Poet & Pedant? :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 10:41 AM

Was that the "copy and paste" overture, or underture?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 10:55 AM

Pfr I am simply curious as to why a definition accepted by so many cannot be taken and used in it's entirety by the Labout Party. I would have thought that unity was a prize worth achieving especially if there is a whiff of an election in the offing. Self destruction does not buy votes, or gain supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:06 AM

You've just been given it Iains
Pretending yuo haven't won't make it go away
It's a "controversial" document
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:06 AM

You've just been given it Iains
Pretending yuo haven't won't make it go away
It's a "controversial" document
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:08 AM

Iains - Pragmatics v principles..???

Just rubber stamping a dictated code in hope of appeasing hostile factions outside and within Labour,
and avoiding further controversy and attacks is a slippery slope...???

That would still not be enough to satisfy those with a ruthless anti Corbyn/labour agenda...

We all know it wouldn't shut em up or stop em...!!!

Certainly not at a time when the tories are so at risk of imploding and losing a snap election...

Corbyn needs to hold fast, and fight back harder...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:19 AM

"I think we all know who has "a good deal of form in setting up and polluting threads with this topic" and it ain't Keef."

Barefaced liar. I have NEVER set up a thread on this topic.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:28 AM

Isn't it too much of a coincidence that, every time the Tories are in an utter fuck-up (more and more frequently nowadays), the tired old tropes of 'racist', 'anti-semite', 'friend of terrorists', yadda yadda are dragged out by those who wish to discredit Labour and draw the attention of ordinary people away from what a hopeless, incompetent, thoroughly nasty bunch the Tories are?

That group includes the Blairite Banana Bunch, who would rather see a permanent Nasty-Party government than one led Corbyn.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:31 AM

Than one led BY Corbyn....

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:36 AM

A friend of mine summed it all up pretty succinctly. He said that the old definition of anti-Semite was 'someone who dislikes Jews'. The revised definition of anti-Semite is 'someone whom Jews dislike'.

I think he has a point.....

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:40 AM

BWM - point is .. WE ALL know that..

It's so blatantly obvious that the rabid hostile anti corbyn/labour uneasy alliance of blairites and far right,
are fully aware of the disruptive divisive games they are playing.....

But they still continue their cynical charade of denial...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 12:09 PM

"Barefaced liar."
Don't get sucked in by Iain's abusive behaviour Steve - that's ho he operates and it's what gets threads closed
We have a chance to thrash this out and demand these people provided untainted proof of their accusations

THIS

AND THIS

WHAT THE ISRAELI MEDIA IS SAYING

'someone whom Jews dislike'.
The problem with that Baccy is many of the opponents of all this nonsense are Jews
In order to combat that Israel has striped themselves of their Jewishness by describing them as "self-loathers" - a smear for every occasion, it seems
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 12:28 PM

Jewish Voice for Labour

are honourable folks who seem completely absent from any media reports on this hatchet job against Labour...

Why are they not being interviewed, why can we not hear their voices...?????

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 01:14 PM

Crikey. What a lot of shouting.

I'd like to hear Iain's & Keith's views on how wrong the Labour document is compared with the IHRA document.
Kenny B listed the points ages ago,
thread.cfm?threadid=164546#3938928 
the post seems to have been mostly ignored.

1 Accusing Jewish people of being more loyal to Israel than their home country
par. 14  of the NEC Code
“it is also wrong to accuse Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.”

2 Claiming that Israel's existence as a state is a racist endeavour
The party is clear that the Jewish people have the same right to self-determination as any other people.
To deny that right is to treat the Jewish people unequally and is therefore a form of anti-Semitism.

3 Requiring higher standards of behaviour from Israel than other nations
Israel's conduct should be assessed "against the requirements of international law or the standards of behaviour expected of democratic states" and that double standards should not be applied.

4 Comparing contemporary Israeli policies to those of the Nazis
... using Nazi comparisons in Israel-Palestine debates " carries a strong risk of being regarded as prejudicial or grossly detrimental to the party", triggering a disciplinary investigation.
par. 15 says: “it is not permissible to use ‘Zionist’ (and still less any pejorative abbreviation such as ‘zio’ which the Chakrabarti report said should have no place in Labour party discourse) as a code word for ‘Jew’.”

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 01:16 PM

"Barefaced liar. I have NEVER set up a thread on this topic."

Whoever said it was? you stupid boy! Gotta guilty conscience?

Jimmie. repeating everything you post just makes you appear twice as irrelevant. You are incapable of concentrating on any one thread, You insist on hijacking them to suit your own pathetic agenda. You are best ignored until you dredge up something on topic, and also sensible. A challenge too far I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 01:33 PM

I managed to avoid all the usual tit for tat playground warfare for a good few weeks...

Mates... it's a bloody distressing heatwave..
could you do me a favour and ease me more gently back into all this over heated conflictorial provoking and insulting..

thank you very nicely... ...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 02:25 PM

It's a "controversial" document

Only to the UK Labour Party.
No other party or organisation in the country has a problem with it.
No other democracy has a problem with it.

Just UK Labour Party.
Why?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 02:52 PM

Why...???

Why.. why.. because I love you...


Why...??? well it just seemed like a cue for a song...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 03:08 PM

"4 Comparing contemporary Israeli policies to those of the Nazis "
The problem with this one id that this accusation has been made by high ranking Israelis, including an Israeli general and several ex directors of Mossad Security Service
There clauses are political
Nothing to do with persecuting Jews - just political

Can I just demonstrate how ridiculious this new definition is

"Comparing contemporary Israeli policies to those of the Nazis"
What if the Iraeli regime began acting like Nazis?

What if their soldiers started to humiliate Pordinary people at CHECKPOINTS ?
What if Israelis began to drive Arab out of their HOMES to make room for people of the right religion ?
What if they began to DRIVE PALESTINIANS OFF LAND to make room for Jewish farmers ?
What if Israeli trops beganINDISCRIMINATELY KILLING DEMONSTRATORS, INCLUDING CHILDREN
What if they began DISPOSESSIING PEOPLE AND FORCING THEM INT SUBHUMAN LAND ?
What if people were treated as SECOND CLASS CITZENS BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE ?
What if LARGE NUMBERS OF THE POPULATION DEMAND THE REMOVAL OF NON-JEWS ?

All this is hypothetical of course - but what if it started to happen?
Would it still be wrong to describe them as acting like Nazis?
This definition is utter nonsense - to ploitcise persecution in support of Government policy is the act of a fascist state
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 03:16 PM

"Just UK Labour Party."
PROMINENT JEWS CONDEMN IHRA

Undemocratic Rabbis maybe?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 03:20 PM

I suggest everbody walks away if Keith begins his "deocratice nations nonsense
To him, only nations who support Israeli fascism are "democratic
The links above expose what Israel has become - let him disprove them and call the Jerusalem Post and haaretz "antisemitic"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 03:52 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/23/israel-racist-new-law-ashamed-apartheid-daniel-barenboim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:20 PM

Hello Jim Carroll!
Hello Pot!
Hello Kettle!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:30 PM

Silly. Grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 09:07 PM

Someone's up past their bedtime.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: KarenH
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 01:53 AM

I know that some Jewish Labour Party members have had the experience of being blamed for actions and policies of the state of Israel with which their interlocutors disagree and with which that same Jewish person disagrees. This isn't very nice and, though speaking as a non Labour party member, I feel it ought to stop.

However, this particular form of behaviour does not seem to be covered by any of the four points which Labour's critics want to be given more emphasis within Labour Party pronouncements as far as I can see from this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44919875

The only one that seems to come close to it is the desired statement that it is anti-Semitic to accuse people of being more loyal to Israel than to their home country. This is stated to be 'wrong' in Labour's policy document, according to my source, while not listed as an 'example', which is stated to be the source of the complaints. However, if it should turn out that a person was more loyal to Israel than to their home country, which is not beyond the bounds of possibility, though I hasten to add highly unlikely, one would be unable to point it out. This seems odd.

I would prefer it if all states were secular including the one I live in and Israel and Iran and so on.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 03:23 AM

Kren
The issue of 'loyalty to Israel' has always been a major issue - Israel grew out of donations from Jews throughout the world who helped finance it through its infancy - something I have always admired,
Now it has become something far more sinister, which is why it now needs to be examined
Israel has fallen into the hands of an extremist right-wing administration who are using 'loyalty to Israel' as an excuse for excesses that amount to war crimes and cries against humanity
If it hadn't been for these appeals and the support it has been getting i the form of over 100 US vetoes, the Israeli administration would have found itself facing the International Criminal Court for its behaviour.
Of course the world has to be free to question whether this 'call for loyalty' is being abused
How different is this from all the other dictators, Hitler, Stalin, Pinochet (and now Trump with his 'Make America Great Again'), actually using loyalty and Nationalism as a step up the power ladder.
Haw can opposition to the political policies of any regime be possibly described as "anti-semitism" or "racism" as it ids now being in Israel?

The Netanyahu administration seem to have shot themselves in the foot recently with their officially declaring Israel a Jewish State, while at the same time bowing to the pressure of Orthodox religious extremism.
Non orthodox Jews throughout the world are up in arms claiming their 'Jewishness' has been challenged - a step away from becoming the already established 'self-hating Jews'.

"Hello Pot! - Hello Kettle!
"Someone's up past their bedtime."
Can someone remove these trolls than close this thread please?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 03:51 AM

BBC Laura Kuenssberg 43 minutes ago,
"For many Labour MPs and the vast majority of Jewish organisations, it is straightforwardly unacceptable that the party is trying to tell Jews what is and is not racist, rather than accepting a widely-agreed definition.
And after a bruising couple of years where Jeremy Corbyn only relatively recently accepted there was a significant problem, some say the leadership appears to be putting the desires of those who want to be able to criticise Israel ahead of the rights of a minority who have been subject to significant abuse.
The view of Dame Margaret Hodge and many others is that if Labour was serious about sending a message that anti-Semitism was truly unacceptable, the way to go about it is not to go ahead with writing their own version of the rules. "

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 04:25 AM

Indie 7 hours ago,
"Labour MPs and peers back internationally recognised definition of antisemitism as party row deepens
MPs criticise Jeremy Corbyn as Parliamentary Labour Party backs definition that party leaders controversially refused to fully adopt"


"Labour MPs and peers have voted unanimously in favour of forcing the party's parliamentarians to abide by the internationally recognised definition of antisemitism that is at the heart of a furious row gripping the party.
The Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) used an emergency meeting to unanimously pass a motion to make MPs and peers "accept and abide by" the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition, parts of which were controversially left out of Labour's new code of conduct.

The vote will come as a blow to Jeremy Corbyn and Labour's top team, which has opposed adopting the IHRA definition in its current form and insisted the party's own wording is enough."

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 04:26 AM

Care to comment on the Barenboim article Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 04:30 AM

Guardian last week,
"For years, certain antisemitic attitudes have been normalised in parts of the left. It seems they are now an official party stance "
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/18/labour-antisemitism-code-jeremy-corbyn

David, I broadly agree Barenboim's views, but how is it relevant to this thread?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 04:34 AM

Well it seems a strange time to be insisting that it is antisemitic to accuse the Israeli state of being racist, when a racist law, seen as racist by many Jews, has just been passed by the Israeli parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 04:43 AM

David,
It is not anti-Semitic to claim that Israel is racist, and no-one is saying it is.
There is nothing in IHRA to limit criticism of Israel, and everyone else is completely happy with it.
It is just Labour who thinks they know better than everyone else including Jews what anti-Semitism is.

As BBC's Kuenssberg said today, " it is straightforwardly unacceptable that the party is trying to tell Jews what is and is not racist, rather than accepting a widely-agreed definition."

and, " if Labour was serious about sending a message that anti-Semitism was truly unacceptable, the way to go about it is not to go ahead with writing their own version of the rules. "

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 05:33 AM

A pathetic rehash of previous doomed threads on the same tired topic, led once again by a feeble-minded obsessive. Careful what you get drawn into, David. But thanks for the Barenboim link. He's always been a bit of a hero of mine ever since we went to his concerts in the seventies in London. His Beethoven cycle at the Proms a few years ago was a revelation, performed with the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra which he founded with the Palestinian Edward Said, a mix of superb young Israeli and Arab musicians. Barenboim has always been about straining for peace and reconciliation in the Middle East.

From wiki:

The aim of the West–Eastern Divan Orchestra is to promote understanding between Israelis and Palestinians and pave the way for a peaceful and fair solution of the Arab–Israeli conflict. Barenboim himself has spoken of the ensemble as follows:

"The Divan is not a love story, and it is not a peace story. It has very flatteringly been described as a project for peace. It isn't. It's not going to bring peace, whether you play well or not so well. The Divan was conceived as a project against ignorance. A project against the fact that it is absolutely essential for people to get to know the other, to understand what the other thinks and feels, without necessarily agreeing with it. I'm not trying to convert the Arab members of the Divan to the Israeli point of view, and [I'm] not trying to convince the Israelis to the Arab point of view. But I want to – and unfortunately I am alone in this now that Edward died a few years ago – ...create a platform where the two sides can disagree and not resort to knives."

One of the young musicians of the orchestra reinforced this point:

"Barenboim is always saying his project is not political. But one of the really great things is that this is a political statement by both sides. It is more important not for people like myself, but for people to see that it is possible to sit down with Arab people and play. The orchestra is a human laboratory that can express to the whole world how to cope with the other."

Makes Keith and bobad's dismal efforts to create divisions look so threadbare, eh?

Daniel Barenboim is my YouTube go-to late at night, headphones on, when I fancy a bit of Beethoven piano. My two favourites are the sonatas Op 78 and Op 53, the Waldstein. Dammit, I shouldn't have favourites!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 05:35 AM

Jews, Israelis and the government of Israel are three very distinct entities. A valid description of one entity may rightly be interpreted as anti semitic if applied to one of the others. In this instance no ambiguity can be tolerated.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 05:44 AM

"A valid description of one entity may rightly be interpreted as anti semitic if applied to one of the others."

If it's a valid description is can't be RIGHTLY interpreted as antisemitic.

"In this instance no ambiguity can be tolerated."

Well you've just been highly ambiguous.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 05:45 AM

Is should be it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 06:01 AM

Steve,
A pathetic rehash of previous doomed threads on the same tired topic, led once again by a feeble-minded obsessive.

It is led by the dispute within Labour breaking out into open warfare again.
Of course it gets raised here. It dwarfs the Tory problems that are always brought up here.

Makes Keith and bobad's dismal efforts to create divisions look so threadbare, eh?

I am flattered, but it has all come from within your party, not from us, and it fills the media. BBC had a lengthy report on it on both 6pm and 10pm news programmes last night, and Newsnight staged a debate between two Labourites on it.

Why should we not discuss it here too Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 06:02 AM

"For years, certain antisemitic attitudes have been normalised in parts of the left. It seems they are now an official party stance"
That is the opinion only of a Jewish journalist - it runs counter to the opinions of many thousands of other Jews
The fact that the pro Israel contingent refuses even to discuss the anomalies of the new political definition says everything that needs to be said - this is about defending the Israeli right, not the Jewish People
Some Labour Party members will back this definition not because it is right but because it will hopefully stop rocking the boat and ensure a future Labour Government
Making them pawns in a political contest is no way to treat the Jewish or any People

This friendly and thouhht provoking letter from a Jewish lany living in Dublin sums up perfectly what is happening in Israel today
It will be totally ignored or dismissed by our Knesset contingent as the words of a 'self-hating Jew'
It has already acquired that status in modern Israel

The Jewish diaspora and redefining Israel
Sir, - I read with interest Louis Marcus’s letter (July 21st). It is brave and thought-provoking.
I have always supported Israel and felt comforted by the knowledge that there is a home¬land for the Jewish people. I love the country, have family there and admire the principles of its founding fathers, born out of persecution and displacement throughout history. That does not mean I am not free to criticise or speak out.
Israel struggles with many problems, some of which it handles well, some mistakenly and others, to my mind, unfairly and downright wrongly.
I understand that one has to live in the country to fully grasp
its dilemmas both within and without; however, these latest political trends feel most uncomfortable and symbolically very wrong-headed for its citizens, Jewish or not, and (if it even cares) for its image abroad.
To sideline the Arabic language from official parity with Hebrew to one merely of special status is to make the coun¬try a less warm and inclusive one. Arabs have always lived there, their language is part of the culture and it is good to see notices and road signs in Hebrew and Arabic. The population and its diaspora are made up of many nationalities, languages and cultures, but I feel that most of the fair-minded
among us would acknowledge that Israel’s Arab population, language and culture are and must continue to be a much more integral part of its society than the current government wishes to acknowledge.
I cannot support this shift. It is not good for equality within the country or for peace on its borders. Nor - and I think its i leaders should know this - is it good for us Jews around the world, who endeavour to speak I up for Israel when they can, but e must also articulate when they cannot. Such is democracy. - Yours, etc,        
HEATHER ABRAHAMSON,        
Clonskeagh
Dublin.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: bobad
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 06:20 AM

it is straightforwardly unacceptable that the party is trying to tell Jews what is and is not racist, rather than accepting a widely-agreed definition.

That is what racists do, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 06:34 AM

"If it's a valid description is can't be RIGHTLY interpreted as antisemitic."

and you claim to be well educated? Shaw at times you are a moron.

I repeat again solely for you
A valid description of one entity may rightly be interpreted as anti semitic if applied to one of the others

The above is generally called a sentence. In order to understand it you have to take it in it;s entirety.

Picking and choosing little bits out of context totally distorts what was said.
Any fool can do that as Shaw eloquently illustrates.

Let me put it more clearly you are a fool, whereas I am not a fool.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 06:37 AM

Blatant attempt by the media and our resident right wingers to distract attention from the current shambles in the Tory party. I suggest that anyone with any sense ignores this thread and suspect it does not have long for this world anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 07:20 AM

Correct, Dave. It's a known tactic of the Tories and Blairites.....

BrexShit? Absolute disaster, unravelling before our eyes.
Tory Cabinet? Absolute disaster, unravelling before our eyes.
Trump's visit? Absolute disaster, period.

Tories' and Blairites' answer to those disasters? "Look over there - Labour anti-semites!".

Feeble-minded cockwombles fall for the bollocks and bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 08:54 AM

"It dwarfs the Tory problems that are always brought up here.

This is at heart why Kqueef has yet again dredged up this thread topic at a time when the tories are in such miserable divided disarray...

Another of his pathetic attempts to distract and deflect attention to a trumped up 'Labour problem',
created and sustained by various desperate right wing forces outside and within the Labour party.
Tories are desperately gasping for breath and don't care how many good people they cynically destroy to cling onto their own self preservation...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 08:57 AM

Spot on. Why don't we just ignore this load of total crap. Let's go ride bikes.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 09:01 AM

You're right, Steve. I'm done - anyone else with any self-respect should be too.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 09:49 AM

I just look at this thread on the way to or back from the bog...
That's about as much attention and respect it deserves...

Obviously, I wouldn't waste time on this whilst sat on the bog..
that's precious time in the sanctuary devoted to positive creative meditation...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 10:42 AM

Kind of hard to defend the indefensible, is it not?
Bye Bye boyos!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 11:15 AM

Iains - If I was you I'd be fuming that Kqueef was on the same side as me..

His 'support' is an embarrassing liability for the tories...


Unless, however, he is actually an infiltrated agent planted by the left...
In that case, well done Keith mate.. excellent job...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 11:16 AM

'Bout ****** time lads
You are never going to stop fanatics crusading their bulldozers over facts to reach their objectine
Any administration that creates laws and adapts definitions to protect its policies is a fascist one
With the new laws, the Israeli regime has now formalised exactly what Stalin was accused of doing, only he didn't have ETHNIC CLEANSING on his menu
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 12:19 PM

Pfr and others,
This is at heart why Kqueef has yet again dredged up this thread topic at a time when the tories are in such miserable divided disarray..

I did not. The BBC, Indie and Guardian did.
You pretend it is not an issue, yet the media is clear it is indeed a major story.
How you wish you could suppress it.
The sad thing is that you may well succeed in getting discussion suppressed here.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 12:24 PM

Discussion takes ideas and responses
You people appear to only have grasped half the equation
THat's why you can only get louts like Iains to talk to you

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 12:31 PM

BBC today,
But it is not possible to ignore what is a major political issue for one of our major political parties -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44933282


Got that guys? It is not me saying that.
You are in complete denial of the facts again.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 12:34 PM

I am old fashioned in the sense that I can have a fair relationship with opponents I respect.
More often than occasionally, I have found some of my 'enemies' to be more likable folks than some of my 'allies'...
Keith, unfortunately, is something of an insidious laughing stock...
..and he only has himself to blame for that...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 12:41 PM

Then you have to argue every single case Keith - not just the ones that suit you
Discussing israel with you is like reading a party political statement by the Lekud Party
YOUR STARTER FOR TEN

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 12:43 PM

So... if you never said it",
why do you need to be the one so predictably, persistently, and obsessively bleating on about it...!!!???

what are you.. Little Sir Echo ...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 01:24 PM

In case anyone missed it first time, this was my earlier comment.

Blatant attempt by the media and our resident right wingers to distract attention from the current shambles in the Tory party.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 01:29 PM

And here's mine...

"BrexShit? Absolute disaster, unravelling before our eyes.
Tory Cabinet? Absolute disaster, unravelling before our eyes.
Trump's visit? Absolute disaster, period.

Tories' and Blairites' answer to those disasters? "Look over there - Labour anti-semites!".

Feeble-minded cockwombles fall for the bollocks and bullshit."

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 01:52 PM

Two minutes in JC's past his critics don't want you to see....

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 01:54 PM

me too.. me too...

"Date: 23 Jul 18 - 07:43 AM

So predictable...
Here he goes again... you only tolerate the right kind of jews who have it in for the Labour party...

ok Keith you win.. labour is evil antifa, and we should all vote "Britain First"...


I know where you get your ideas from...
I monitor their youtube channels for a grim laugh..."

I hope the prize is an ice lolly...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 02:16 PM

btw... apparently Margaret Hodge considers herself to have such a significant power base in the Labour party
she is untouchable and immune to disciplinary action...

Well there is an appropriate 2 short word response...

Time for her to follow in the same direction as the more honorable & loyal Ken Livingstone...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 02:55 PM

“Two minutes in JC's past his critics don't want you to see....”
Hate to be the bearer of bad news Baccy, but you really don’t seem to have grasped the fner points of this
Keith’s Jews are those who would have been on the other side in Cable Street – Viktor Orban’s Jews and Trump’s Jews – you should vbe able to remember the last one when The Israelis name their new railway station after him
Keep up please
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 03:14 PM

If this thread is to have any value, let's use it to put scumbags like Iains, Keith and bobad firmly in their place. The last few posts have been absolutely brilliant, and I loved that Corbyn clip. Thanks, John!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 04:24 PM

THat's why you can only get louts like Iains to talk to you

let's use it to put scumbags like Iains, Keith and bobad firmly in their place.

Absolutely stunning counter arguments boys! Let's try bullying, bluster and insults instead. Fairly typical behaviour from the usual suspects.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/24/the-guardian-view-on-antisemitism-and-labour-not-just-a-problem-of-percept

Even the leftard rag the gruniard recognises that you yo yos have a problem!(2 hours ago)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 04:26 PM

Well, the best thing any of us could do is to ignore any threads that Keefy, Teribus/Ians, Boob-ad, and their fellow cockwombles start up. Let them do their own job of making twats of themselves.

Like all trolls, they know exactly which buttons to push, and ignoring their inane prattlings can be difficult, but it can be done - reacting to them isn't compulsory.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 04:36 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/24/the-guardian-view-on-antisemitism-and-labour-not-just-a-problem-of-perception


Looks like the guardian waffles too much for a link to be created.
There it is above.

bwm do you know what a troll is?
I suspect calling people scumbags is trolling, but as he is a leftard
I suppose I could expect nothing with the spark of originality.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Labour Party and IHRA def.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 05:52 PM

You are a prize lout and a prize scumbag, Iains, as you have comprehensively demonstrated via your postings in several threads over the last few days (and over a much longer period, actually), as we've all observed. That isn't me saying that. You are self-declared in those regards. Your posts are capricious and immature, demonstrating that you actually need help - you have my sympathy. There really is something seriously the matter with you. There are far more decent people here than the few thorough nasties like you, bobad and, above all, Keith. You are yesterday's man and the more you open yourself to ridicule via your typically splenetic and vacuous posts the more we will ridicule you. I hope the moderators read this - they made a splendid decision a few months back to delete Teribus and akenaton from this forum. You are far more scurrilously negative than either of those. I don't actually care whether you are allowed to remain here or not. I hope that the thoroughly decent members here, including Raggytash, Dave, pfr, Jim, DMcG, Backwoodsman and Pete (sorry if I've missed anybody out) will do as I'm going to do, studiously blank you out completely. Do your worst, you big kid. You'll be a marble rattling in a biscuit tin as far as I'm concerned from now on.