BS: eu milk lake

Subject: BS: eu milk lake
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 03:23 AM

Milk cartons being transported on a conveyor belt in the Candia milk plant in Awoingt, northern France | Philippe Huguen/AFP via Getty Images
Europe’s hidden milk lake threatens fragile market

Brussels bought up a huge amount of milk to try to boost prices. The danger is that these stocks are now forcing prices down.

By Emmet Livingstone

1/29/18, 7:52 PM CET

Updated 2/1/18, 10:36 AM CET

HERSTAL, Belgium — Milk lakes and butter mountains were meant to be a relic of Europe’s past.

Massive EU intervention in the dairy market is back, however, and its price-distorting effects are coming in for some of the same scathing criticism as in the 1970s and 1980s, when Brussels became a byword for reckless intervention.

In an attempt to prop up prices in the teeth of a dairy crisis, Brussels has been buying up milk since 2015. A lot of milk. The European Commission has used public money to buy some 380,000 metric tons of skim milk powder. That’s slightly more than a big dairy powerhouse like France produced in 2016, for example.

Stockpiled in warehouses — mostly in France, Germany and Belgium — the sacks of milk powder conspicuously failed to stop the price hemorrhage. In fact, the EU strategy is in danger of doing exactly the opposite. Milk farmers and traders fear that the very existence of these quantities is already dragging down prices, in the expectation that they will one day be sold back.

“This powder is the problem,” said Romuald Schaber, chairman of the German dairy association. “It’s the sword of Damocles hanging over us all.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/europes-hidden-milk-price-lake-threatens-fragile-market-eu-commission/

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Dick, stop with the sloppy huge cut-and-paste entries. Learn to clean up the text and post a link, please. We only allow long articles pasted into the music section when we want to preserve the information. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 03:25 AM

The kind capitalists of the Eu have not handed out any free milk to the Greeks, I am surprised

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 08:24 AM

"The kind capitalists of the Eu have not handed out any free milk to the Greeks, I am surprised"
Maggie Thatcher took away the free milk from schoolchildren
No nation can hold it's head up in pride when it comes to treatment of the poor - those dispsesssed of homes and jobs have to rely on charitiy to survive
This has always ben the case
I watched an amazing programme last night describing how the first victimes of the Blitz were treated as beggars and parasites and how they had to force their way into locked barriers of tube stations in ouder to find shelter from the night
We've just voted our way out of Europe so we don't have to be arse
d with refugees from wars we either helped start or facilitated with British arms
Look at the full picture Dick
As for your "milk lake" - go look at the figures of food being wasted or deliberately destroyed throughout britain today
THese are not features of the E.U. but the inevitable actions of a society based on greed
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 11:20 AM

. but the inevitable actions of a society based on greed
i agree but the EU is guilty as well

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 11:53 AM

Turn the surplus dairy cows into cheap burgers...

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 12:19 PM

I'll take a surplus cow. I love milk.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 12:44 PM

I hate the stuff. Stopping force feeding it to schoolchildren was the only good thing Thatcher did.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 01:34 PM

We all loved our little bottle of milk at school just after the war.
That and the small concentrated orange juice, radio malt and rose-hip syrup. We got our vitamins and calcium in those days!

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 01:36 PM

Maggie Thatcher took away the free milk from schoolchildren
Yes, Mrs Thatcher was the Secretary of State for Education who stopped free milk for some schoolchildren.
Often overlooked is that the cuts started under Harold Wilson whose government scrapped free milk to secondary schools in 1968. Here

This seems the same sort of view used by those who blame Mrs Thatcher for closing the mines, without looking at the fact that more mines were closed (affecting a greater number of miners) under Labour than under the conservatives.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 01:38 PM

Sen:
And the fish oils as well.
Cod liver oil capsules, which left a horrible taste. Eventually replaced by Haliborange, which at least didn't taste quite as bad.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 01:40 PM

Thatcher took milk away from miners...???


Anyway, if there is too much milk - what about bulk buying and bathing in it...



"She said she'd like to bathe in milk, he said, "All right, sweetheart,"
And when he'd finished work one night he loaded up his cart
He said, "D'you want it pasturize? Cause pasturize is best,"
She says, "Ernie, I'll be happy if it comes up to my chest."

That tickled old Ernie, (Ernieeeeeeeeeee)
And he drove the fastest milk cart in the west"

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 01:44 PM

No, she took milk from minors.

But she wasn't the only one.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:08 PM

We didn't have capsules Nigel. We had a glass bottle of cod liver oil. I loved the stuff (still do)
I actually think parents can blooming well afford to buy a carton of milk for their children, even on benefits. They don't hesitate to buy bottles of Coke, crisps, and other rubbish. Milk is very cheap.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:10 PM

Sen - To your list I'll add syrup of figs - I was spoon fed the vile potion when I was a kid...

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 02:20 PM

We never seemed to suffer from constipation pfr. My father had an allotment and we ate positively tons of fresh veg, apples, rhubarb and so on.
Porridge too - lots and lots of roughage. I actually believe post-war families were better fed than many folk today.

My husband was suffering from calcium deficiency when he arrived in UK. His bones were like sponges, poor man, and he had rickets from lack of vitamin D. They had very little in their diet, and never got within sniffing distance of any milk. I fed him as much nourishing food as he could stomach, plus vitamin supplements, and he actually grew about 5 centimetres in a year, due to his vertebrae gaining in density.

This spare milk from the 'lake' could be well-used in developing countries, in powder form. I'm sure the main charities such as Oxfam would be glad of it.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Iains
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 03:39 PM

Senoufou the only problem with dumping powdered milk in Africa is that it destroys indigenous milk production.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/development-policy/news/how-eu-powdered-milk-threatens-african-production/

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 03:46 PM

Can powdered milk be used for other non food purposes...

I like the idea of British farmer who couldn't get a worthwhile price for his wool,
so he found a way of pressing it into a hard fibre board
that he crafts 'unique' chairs with...

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 04:07 PM

Maybe Sen, your little bottle of milk hadn't been left out for 3 hours in the hot sun.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Iains
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 04:07 PM

pfr


http://milkgenomics.org/article/paper-plastic-milk-non-food-uses-milk-casein/

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 05:28 PM

It often was rather warm and 'cheesy' David. Or in winter, ice pushed its way through the metal top and the straw wouldn't go in. It wasn't homogenised, so there was always a lovely layer of thick yellow cream on it. We always loved it. We also drank loads of milk at home too.

Iains, that's interesting about W African milk production being affected by imported dried milk. Thank you for that.
I imagine though that there are third world countries that don't produce any milk, where the dietary benefits would be very welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Charmion
Date: 05 Aug 18 - 05:54 PM

Canadian charities used to ship literally tons of dried cow's milk to developing countries, only to learn that they were solving an immediate problem at the cost, not only of causing long-term damage to local economies (as described at Iains' link), but also of exposing those who drank it to the threat of contamination in the water used to reconstitute it.

In some countries -- Japan and much of China, for example -- milk is not part of the regular diet; even children don't drink milk after they are weaned.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 01:30 AM

How about giving it to poor people in western countries, in much the same way rice was given out in ireland

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 03:43 AM

You're right Charmion, some ethnic groups can't digest milk. (I remember a recent thread in which this was discussed, and Steve, among others, helped me understand the dietary science behind this.)

I think it could indeed be given to poor people in western countries Sandman, rather than let it go to waste. But, as you imply, many people wouldn't drink the stuff. Fizzy drinks are much more popular.

And did the Irish eat the rice? Was this during The Famine? I'd have thought it was a food they were unfamiliar with, and might not have known how to cook.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Iains
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 03:58 AM

Some famine kitchens distributed cooked 'stirabout' (maize and rice porridge) to the destitute.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 04:17 AM

NO,during the last recession , a small quantity   of surplus rice was handed out to irish people by the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Iains
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 04:49 AM

Have you a link for the rice handout, I can find no details? I know Britain lent £3.2billion during the recession, and 80% of Irish bread flour comes from the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 05:01 AM

"Some famine kitchens distributed cooked 'stirabout' (maize and rice porridge) to the destitute."
The religious "souper" schools insisted that the parents of their children attended Protestant services in return
Russell's Government closed down the workhouses and soup kitchens which were then taken up by Charities - the main group being The Quakers -
Russell's crowd insisted that all distributed food should be sold at market prices the 'laissez faire' policy.
THe food was basically oatmeal
"Most Irish people felt that cornmeal was fit only for feeding to pigs or poultry and this became its main use with a resulting increase in the availability of meat and eggs, both for consumption by the family and as a means for farmers to earn cash. By the end of the 1800s this hated food with its echos of the famine was firmly off the table and had been replaced in the diet by locally grown oatmeal."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 10:41 AM

Robert Peel had unprocessed cornmeal distributed in Ireland during the Famine. It became known as Peel's Brimstone because it caused violent diarrhoea, which killed many people. (Cornmeal has to be processed with lye before becoming edible; nowadays this is part of the process before it is sold to the public.) I never heard of rice being distributed.

However, at one stage in the 1970s the EU did give away a large amount of surplus beef and butter; I was living in a poor area then and was pleased to get a parcel of both. I don't think it had a terrible effect on the economy - it was a once-off gift.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 10:52 AM

Cornmeal has to be processed with lye before becoming edible;

I can find no reference to that.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 11:06 AM

Cornmeal does not have to be processed with lye to make it edible; untreated corn can be popped (what do you think popcorn is?), boiled (as in succotash), or ground, and the ground meal needs only boiling. American aboriginal peoples ate corn for millennia before Europeans arrived, in both treated and untreated forms.

Corn treated with lye will not sprout, and is therefore suitable for long-term storage. It is also more nutritious to humans because the lye treatment makes niacin bio-available to our digestive system.

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 01:34 PM

Processing cornmeal with lye

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Iains
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 02:33 PM

One view is that unfamiliarity with maize meant the Irish could not make full use of it as a food.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/great-famine-victims-teeth-contain-evidence-of-starvation-1.2752045

Subject: RE: BS: eu milk lake
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 02:49 PM

"The flint hard grain was sharp and irritating, and capable of piercing the intestinal wall" (Crawford 1995:64) It had the dubious pleasure of being referred to as "Peels Brimstone" because of its yellow sulphurous color and its effect on the digestive system. In time the relief commission provided instructions of how to cook maize "properly," although those whose who needed the knowledge most were in remote areas or could not read English During the most extreme famine conditions people had little to eat but the Indian meal. Workhouses and soup kitchens began serving more and more of it This was often done in the form of a stirabout or porridge of mostly maize meal boiled in water When possible oats or rice and any available vegetables were added to Indian meal to make soup the distribution of raw Indian meal to starving, debilitated, often homeless beggars was about as useful as a daily ration of river sand. (From an anonymous reviewer of the health commissioners post-Famine report to the lord lieutenant, cited in Geary 1995: 84-85). (from Pellagra and Nutrition Policy: lessons from the Great Irish Famine to the new South Africa by Barrett P Brenton (2009)