BS: Helpful ointments & medications

Subject: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Nov 18 - 10:47 PM

Aspercreme. USA name. It works so well I think I may have a placebo association for relieving bogus (severed) nerve pain. 2 minutes! wow
level 7 pain goes down to a 2 with multiple applications. After 2 weeks so far, so good.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 03:53 AM

It contains Lidocaine Donuel. I think that's a derivative of cocaine, but I may be wrong.
Glad you're getting some relief from your pain.

If it's phantom nerve pain, Amitriptyline is good. It's an old-fashioned anti-depressant, but for some reason has a blocking effect on severe nerve pain. I eventually had to have it for agonising post-herpetic neuralgia. After getting shingles, I was left in awful torment, like being burned with a flame-thrower. But after two weeks on Amitriptyline, it had gone. It does dope one up a bit though.

Topical Capsaicin (from fiery chillies) is supposed to be good, but I didn't try that. My husband was disappointed, he would have loved smearing me with some of his Fiery Horror sauce!

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 06:04 AM

Asda bite and sting relief cream, £1.50. It contains 1% hydrocortisone and it is the best thing for easing any bit of skin irritation caused by detergent residues on clothing (armpits, sock top region and groin), or by hearing aid tips, or anything else. This is not medical advice and I care not a jot for any naysayer who sez I shouldn't be using steroid cream that way. It works and life's too bloody short.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 06:09 AM

And cheap mouthwashes that contain chlorhexidine gluconate are totally hunkydory for sore gums and ulcers. No need to buy Corsodyl at ripoff prices. Our local chemist sells one that's just as good for £1.29 the bottle. Mouthwashes tend to stain the teeth so I use them only when there's summat going on and for the shortest time.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 06:16 AM

I tend to follow my old father's advice. He always said to 'leave your body alone, and it will sort itself out'. Not applicable with serious illnesses of course. But with minor stuff he had a point.

He never visited his GP, or bought anything at the pharmacy, he was tough as old boots. But on one occasion he had an infected wound on his finger and needed an antibiotic.

In those days, one's medical records were written on a small card in a little cardboard envelope. The receptionist ferreted around for ages and apologised red-faced, saying they couldn't find his records, his envelope was empty.
This was because he didn't have any. They had to start a new card for his finger.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 06:38 AM

Sudacrem. Used it on nappy rash when our kids were babies. Recently discovered it is very effective for all sorts of other skin conditions.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 08:19 AM

The cheapie mouthwash is made by Healthpoint, by the way. Any flavour will do.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 08:49 AM

An old friend of mine reccomended Tiger Balm for everything, he said   smeared on the forhead it even cured headaches.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: gnomad
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 09:25 AM

Bag Balm is recommended for animal use, but is quite widely used by humans too. For minor abbrasions rashes etc, something that at bottom just wants soothing.
It appears to be mostly vaseline plus 0.3% Hydroxyquinoline sulphate. The vaseline may be all that's really needed for minor injuries.
The aroma will be a matter of taste, but pleases me, and BB seems not given to causing an allergic reaction (in me at any rate), which can be a problem with some preparations.
Prices vary (a lot, 8oz costing little more than 1oz is not particularly unusual) so shop around if you decide to try it.
On the whole though I tend to agree with Sen's dad, lots of matters cure themselves if left to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 11:09 AM

This is second-hand, never tried this myself
as I stay out of the sun in order to avoid sunburn.

But an acquaintance who does the odd landscape assignment, and ends up sunburned, has a recommendation for severe sunburn.

It's that high-powered ointment/creme for severe diaper rash,
the kind that cools the baby's skin down so fast that
you can see vapor rise off the treated skin.
He uses the diaper-rash formula for his sunburns.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 11:33 AM

Bag balm is lanolin, not petrolatum. At least that's the old-fashioned formula in the green box in North America.

For many years I looked for a product that would soothe my dry and broken-out hands. I got some relief from an Rx cream, but also was able to use 1% hydrocortesone cream (inexpensive in generic versions). Then I discovered that I am allergic to coconut and when I stop eating it and avoid creams and lotions and foods containing coconut or byproducts, my hands cleared up. Here's a glimpse of what coconut becomes. Sodium laurelth sulfate is in soaps, shampoos, etc. and is a big dermatitis culprit.

Steve, for $10 a pop my vet used to give me a little bottle of about 4 ounces of chlorhexidine that could be diluted for treating wounds on the dogs. I went through my various vet products and looked online to see what could be purchased OTC. I found a gallon of chlorhexidine for $20. It seems to be in various human cleaning products, I saw it for cleaning contact lenses on one search.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 11:43 AM

I agree about Aspercreme, Donuel. It helped with my migraines without triggering nausea.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 01:48 PM

No added lidocaine in my aspercreme. I think it works so fast since the formerly dissolved/cut nerve is only 3 mm deep. leenia, you have the real thing if a migraine hurts so bad you "toss your cookies", call up chuck or had the ultimate nausea. Time was my cure. But I suppose it was not as bad as having epilepsy from what I have seen.

I didn't mess with serotonin levels with pills but if some need it, take it. I'd rather be good than feel good.

"Its better to look good than feel good" :^/
Bill Crystal-comedian

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 04:08 PM

The cheapie mouthwash

Know your mouth wash - most stain yer teeth, eventually. And beware drinking fruit juices too soon after - especially citrous fruits.

Been known fer years, dentists will tell you - mine suggested salty water for killing infections.

Pure Neatsfoot Oil can help with creaking joints. It ain't no miracle cure, and the placebo quotient is hard to define, but the old chemist's** tale is that ostlers were known for suffering much less from arthritis. I buy the pure stuff, which in cold weather can harden, but not in a heated house. Neatsfoot Compound is adulterated with mineral oils to prevent hardening. Mind you, I am not a martyr to arthritis, just wear and tear from dancing.

**bought it for the bodhran from a really old chemist 30 years ago. And he told the tale.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 05:29 PM

What do you do with the neatsfoot oil then, Mr R? Rub it in the joint?

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Helen
Date: 30 Nov 18 - 06:02 PM

Tea tree oil

The first brand I ever saw in Oz - many decades ago, before other brands jumped on the bandwagon.

Caution: if you are treating something likely to sting or if you have sensitive skin, it's best to dilute it. I wet a bit of cotton wool and dab a little tea tree oil onto that.

Also, you can't drink it so keep out of reach of children and other curious critters.

If I got dumped on a desert island, I would survive with tea tree oil, I reckon.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 18 - 04:52 AM

I used neatsfoot oil to treat the underside of my Brooks B17 leather bike saddle.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: peregrina
Date: 01 Dec 18 - 05:48 AM

Vetericyn
Amazing stuff

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Dec 18 - 06:06 AM

I'm so wrinkled now I reckon I need saddle soap for my face.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: gnomad
Date: 01 Dec 18 - 10:59 AM

SRS; Bag Balm as sold here (UK) lists both Petrolatum AND Lanolin, in that order, as ingredients. Being earlier in the list indicates the greater proportion, though I do not know whether this rule applies in N.America.
The packaging would generally lead me to believe that this is a USA product, but either way thanks, it's a good 'un.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Charmion
Date: 01 Dec 18 - 11:56 AM

Ibuprofen. Since arthritis entered my life, it's a food group.

The little red 200-mg tabs (Army smarties) are for locked-up knuckles, and the big oval translucent bombs (Advil) are for those days when the weather has changed sharply and all the joints from the knees on down are hurting at once.

I agree with Steve Shaw on mouthwash. I use a purple version of Listerine that has all kinds of promises on the label. It has not stained my teeth, or indeed anything else.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Dec 18 - 12:25 PM

I used a mouthwash to soak my orthodontia retainers and the dentist suggested I switch to the non-alcohol version because the alcohol was irritating my gums. I made the switch and am happier with the feel of it. You can pay more for the name brand (usually Crest) or you can pay much less at Dollar General or Family Dollar for the generic version of exactly the same stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Dec 18 - 12:35 PM

I just looked at the bag balm. It lists an active ingredient, "8- hydroxy quinoline sulfate 0.3% in a petrolatum, lanolin base." The can has a date on it that is a long, long time ago, so should probably be tossed. Whether this is the manufacture date, the sell-by date, or the expiration date, 9/11/2008 is a long time ago. It shows you how long I was struggling with testing various products before discovering the coconut allergy.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Dec 18 - 10:29 PM

Have we decided yet how to use Neatsfoot Oil to treat arthritic joints? 57 years playing guitar has buggered both thumb joints and my left-hand finger joints, and playing is now very painful. Because of other medications I'm on, I can't have anti-inflammatories such as Ibuprofen or Naproxen.

I have a litre of Neatsfoot Oil which I used to soften my custom-made natural leather guitar and mandolin straps, I'm tempted to slather some on my thumbs and fingers, if that's the recommended modus operandi?

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: JHW
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 05:39 AM

Neutrogena hand cream tube (scent or not) is my suggestion. Use every winter when hands may become cold. Stops the very painful split ends on fingers and thumbs. Ten minutes of cold without it and there they are.
Used it 30 years or more (after chemist shop advice)

Will seek the ASDA bite cream. Used to get a good pink one with a gritty texture but they stopped making it.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 05:54 AM

Some good reccommendations here - from an old thread

LYDIA PINKHAM
(Anonymous)

Have you ever heard of Lydia Pinkham
And her compound so refined?
It turns pr***s into glowing fountains,
And makes c***s grow on behind.

CHORUS: So we'll sing, we'll sing, we'll sing of Lydia Pinkham,
Saviour of the human race.
How she makes, she bottles, she sells her Vegetable Compound,
And the papers publish her face.

Widow Brown, she has no children,
Though she loved them very dear,
So she took, she swallowed, she gargled some Vegetable Compound,
And now she has them twice a year. CHORUS

Willie Smith had peritonitis
And he couldn't piss at all,
So he took, he swallowed, he gargled some Vegetable Compound,
And now he's a human waterfall. CHORUS

Mrs. Jones had rotten kidneys;
Poor old lady couldn't pee,
So she took, she swallowed, she gargled some Vegetable Compound,
And now they pipe her to the sea. CHORUS

Geraldine, she had no breastworks,
And she couldn't fill her blouse,
So she took, she swallowed, she gargled some Vegetable Compound,
And now they milk her with the cows. CHORUS

Arthur White had been castrated,
And had not a single nut,
So he took, he swallowed, he gargled some Vegetable Compound,
And not they hang all 'round his butt. CHORUS

Walter Black was a bearded lady,
And his pecker wouldn't peck,
So he took, he swallowed, he gargled some Vegetable Compound,
Now it's as long as a giraffe's neck. CHORUS

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 06:06 AM

'Lotil' moisturising cream. I use it on my hands all winter to stop my thunb- and finger-ends from cracking and the backs of my hands getting sore and itchy. Excellent stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 06:34 AM

Ibuprofen greatly increases your risk of stroke and heart attack. I doubt it'll stay legal for much longer.

The pain-relief dose of amitryptiline is a third of the lowest antidepressant level. It shouldn't normally have any side effects. And it's such an old drug there won't be any surprises.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 06:50 AM

Ibuprofen gives me thumping palpitations and heartburn. In addition, shop-bought pills give you drug levels that go up and down like yo-yos in your body. I've been on control-release diclofenac for twenty years and I need a proton-pump inhibitor to stop it from attacking my gut. How bad does that sound. But I care not a jot. I've had a good life coping well with my chronic back pain as a result. Benefit 1, risk 0.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 06:59 AM

I found Amitriptyline to be an absolute Godsend. I may have felt drowsy because I hadn't been able to sleep for weeks due to the pain. Once relief arrived, I lay on the sofa and slept and slept...

After two weeks I was worried I'd find stopping it difficult, but nothing happened, except the pain had permanently gone. Phew! 'Un grand ouf de soulagement' as my husband put it!

Post-herpetic neuralgia is unendurable agony.

Ibuprofen should not be used by folk with gastro-intestinal conditions (eg ulcers) as it can cause severe bleeding. (So can aspirin.) Paracetamol is better.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 07:19 AM

Except that it doesn't work.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 07:35 AM

I sympathise Steve. One of my husband's school-cleaning colleagues has had numerous operations for back problems, and suffers all the time with awful pain.

He still turns up for work, and my husband tries to help him by lifting anything heavy and taking the large wheelie bins out for him.

It must be torture, and finding effective pain relief is difficult.
You've done well to find a solution.

I just meant that Paracetamol is better than Ibuprofen for smaller stuff such as headaches, toothache, heavy colds etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 07:39 AM

When people binge on alcohol drinks and take Ibuprophen even two days later they can face a fatal drug interaction that requires a liver transplant to survive.

Aspirin is not precluded from interaction dangers. If one nearly overdoses on cocaine, Aspirin will cause a fatal fibrillation and foaming of the mouth. This a possible cause of death for Bruce Lee.

BTW If I ever need a defibrillator I would prefer a defibrilNOW, not later.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 07:54 AM

Some people get much more pain relief from paracetamol than others, due to differences in enzyme activity. It's more likely to do nothing if you're a woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 08:14 AM

I've been incredibly lucky all my life. Like my old dad, I've hardly ever been to see the doctor, never had any serious illnesses, and have never even had a headache or toothache. No rheumatism or arthritis.

I had an MRI scan a couple of years ago due to a strange loss of peripheral vision in the corner of one eye. They confirmed that I do actually have a brain, which was a comfort. But no tumour or anything.

My skin is tough as old boots and I never even had acne as a teenager.

My husband however has a series of allergies, and due to his past starvation his bones are a bit fragile. He likes oils and greasy stuff on his skin after showering (eg Nivea moisturiser) and has to watch which shower gels he uses.

He gets severe headaches due to sinusitis and has Paracetamol for this.

I reckon it's just the luck of the draw.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 11:13 AM

I was sorry to see Co-proxamol taken off the pharmacy shelves: it was a compound painkiller containing paracetamol and dextro-propoxyphene. I am one of those for whom paracetamol on its own does very little: co-proxamol worked well for me and many of my patients, was especially useful for those intolerant of anything containing codeine or dihydrocodeine. But it was taken "off the market" as the dextropropoxyphene was thought to be more dangerous than codeine/dihydrocodeine when taken in deliberate overdose/suicide attempts - more likely to induce respiratory depression/failure. While I'm sad for those who felt driven to such actions, I'm am also unhappy that many people who derived benefit from safe and responsible use of their painkillers were then deprived of them. Many did not do well on the alternatives then offered or simply could not take them. The people who made this decision said that co-proxamol was no more effective than paracetamol for pain control: on that they were wrong!
And as for ibuprofen, I have never been convinced how safe it is to allow over-the-counter sales: the risk of stroke IS increased, but not massively compared with other anti-inflammatories such as prescription-only -coxib drugs, some of which have been withdrawn because of the clotting risk - strokes and coronaries. And conversely there is the risk of gastro-intestinal bleeding.
Some people seem to think that if they can buy it in the supermarket without prescription, it must be safe.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 11:27 AM

Paracetomol and alcohol can be lethal

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 11:50 AM

We're teetotal, so no danger of reactions with Paracetamol.

Has anyone any experience of cannabis for alleviation of pain, seizures and other afflictions? I heard a while back that people are campaigning for its authorisation so that it can be legally purchased/prescribed.

It's difficult to decide which medicines should be sold to the public and in what quantities. Even Paracetamol is only sold in packets of sixteen tablets, in an attempt to prevent overdose. But of course, someone could stockpile it and then take the lot.

What I would never recommend is buying any medication on the internet.
It could be something horribly toxic instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 12:36 PM

The original Sudafed, the little red pills. They dry you out when you've got a cold and won't put you to sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 01:33 PM

The reason I look twice as young as Senofou (no wrinkles) is that I had no pigment therefore I avoided the sun and ran from shade to shade.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 01:52 PM

Pain shaped my life in demonstrable ways including career and hobbies.
Nearly 100,000 Americans a year are dying in their quest to escape many kinds of pain through synthetic opioids and such.

I believe Earth could banish hunger and pain epidemics if we abandoned all military budgets for ten years and devoted our energies cleverly.

Energy would be the next advancement.

There is another thing we won't do.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 02:18 PM

I am not advocating a numb and fat life which is what many of us have become, but saying pain is useful for survival, but BS pain makes cowards of too many.
-End of lofty BS transmission.-

Aspercreme with lidocaine seems to work even better.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 02:21 PM

Ha Donuel, you're right about avoiding the sun. I've spent so long under the African sun off and on over the years, that my skin is permanently tanned on the exposed bits, making me strongly resemble a Siamese cat! And quite wrinkled like leather.

But my husband's skin (and that of his entire family, including his ancient old mum) is smooth and beautiful, no wrinkles at all. I suppose it's down to the melanin pigment which protects all Africans.

You're right too about inner pain. The prisoners I visited usually had such pain as you describe, and I have a feeling that is what had driven them to drugs plus alcohol. Very sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Helen
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 02:22 PM

This is-but-isn't a medication, but I started getting visual migraines about 10 years ago. They come on suddenly with no warning.

I did a "Dr Google" search and found some information on instant coffee and migraines or visual migraines which was very interesting. The accepted belief is that drinking coffee can bring on migraines, but many of these websites were saying that, in fact, it is not the coffee which brings them on, but when the effect of the coffee wears off after a couple of hours.

I experimented on my visual migraines. Instant coffee works a treat, within a very short time. Normally, I only have two cups of brewed coffee a day so an extra cup of instant coffee is not excessive.

I try not to take lots of medications if I can help it, so the only time I take ibuprofen is if the visual migraine comes on suddenly and fast. Then I have a cup of instant coffee and an ibuprofen. If it comes on slowly, I just take the coffee. It usually works.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 02:47 PM

I used to get vertigo, but when I discovered it was runny/blue cheeses that were the cause, I've avoided them ever since and haven't had a single episode for ages.
For bad seasickness (even on a boat trip along the river Thames) I find only Stugeron is effective.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 02:48 PM

I started getting visual migraines a few years ago. Coffee and strong dark chocolate did make them more likely, but the immediate trigger was always bright points of light - if I didn't look at cars in the sun or chandeliers, they never started. Haven't had one in a long time.

The original Sudafed (pseudephedrine) is not fun if you have a tendency to cardiac arrhythmia, though that isn't why it was taken off the market. The quinine in a G&T is enough to wobble my heart as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 03:14 PM

I was a victim of the synthetic opioid Tramadol. Week one, brilliant. Worked amazingly well. Week two, wearing off and noticed that I was getting a bit unsteady and felt insecure driving. Week three, we were having a day out so I missed a couple of doses. Result: the most dreadful withdrawal symptoms. Never felt worse in my life. I realised, after taking the next dose which restored my sanity, that I had become dependent. Week four, threw them in the bin and endured four frenetic sleepless nights and panic attacks. Just thought I'd mention it in case anyone's doctor recommends it.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Helen
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 03:47 PM

Bright lights are the usual cause of my visual migraines, but they started when I was lifting and carrying lots of boxes upstairs when we were clearing out our old house, so I think it was the pressure on a dyed-in-the-wool lounge lizard of doing extended heavy lifting and carrying.

Sometimes I don't know what brings them on. They seem to just come out of nowhere, but the bright lights is the most common cause for me, especially sunlight glinting off car windscreens and chrome fittings. There is a particular time of year when I am driving to work and the sun is angled exactly on both the morning and afternoon drive to create maximum visual migraine probability. Polarising sunglasses are my normal outdoor accessory, but sometimes even they can't prevent the problem.

As I said above, because I don't drink much coffee I am not prone to coffee withdrawal symptoms and the instant coffee works like a charm for me. If someone drinks lots of coffee on a regular basis, it's possible that migraines come on due to withdrawal symptoms, so the coffee fix would be counterproductive in that case. Horses for courses, I guess. One person's meat is another person's poison.

Also, regarding bright lights, I have another problem and sometimes black and white images or designs which are made up of lots of close lines can cause my eyes/brain to get dizzy so that can bring on visual migraines for me in some circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 06:59 PM

MISTAKE ALERT

I MEANT TO SAY ACETOMETAPHEN not Ibuprophen interacts with alcohol with deadly effect.


Helen the bright light sensitivity is alresdy a symptom of a migraine voyage and rarely causal. I did get a headache from a laser once. I say voyage because there are distinct stages which range from subtle to excruciating. The after effects can also exist for days.

Morae' patterns make you dizzy? They are kind of suppose to.
The lines I internally experience like a horizontal graph that jags up and down. They are in contrast to smooth junk imagery. It is almost a visual indication of a toxic reaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 07:28 PM

Moire' patterns are an interference pattern of many types as you can see on Wikipedia. Like wave-particle interactions some patterns are confusing and complex.

2 levels of interference are simple and 4 layers are a challenge like seeing a hypercube for most humans.
I sense they are a good jumping in point into visualizing some quantum effects like the mysterious quantum 'pilot wave'. Deep and fun stuff.

I have never automatically generated Moire' patterns in my minds eye.
But I can see them by will. I was introduced to them 50 years ago by the Scientific American Magazine.

Moire' patterns can also be used in cryptography.

So dizzy is normal :^/

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 07:29 PM

For the sake of transatlantic harmony, paracetamol is the same thing as acetaminophen and Tylenol.

Interesting discussion about migraine auras (which is what I call them). I don't get migraine headaches, though I can feel ropey for hours before an aura. Once the aura has passed I'm OK. The aura consists of a visual disturbance which is more than bad enough to stop me from driving. It lasts about half an hour and consists of a scintillating, multicoloured broken circle of light which has jagged teeth on the inside of the circle. Over time the circle enlarges until it extends to the edges of my visual field, then disappears, leaving me feeling a bit knackered but otherwise OK. I've had five auras over about five years, but, since my dad died six weeks ago, I've had two.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 07:43 PM

Like Tattie said Cox-2inhibitors can cause heart problems but NSAIDS like Alleve and Naproxen are less harmful.
You would think we would be closer to creating natural organic endomorphines that would not be addictive.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 07:53 PM

Cox-2s are rarely if ever prescribed here any more. I don't know what Alleve is, so good luck with that. Naproxen may be statistically safer, but it doesn't work. Wot works is wot is allegedly bad for you. Thing is, diclofenac is supposed to be bad for you. I have taken the daily max dose for twenty years and I can move. Two days without it and I can't move. So what's worse for me, not moving or taking a slightly risky tablet that enables me to move?

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 07:55 PM

The original Sudafed is still on the market. It is no longer over the counter (OTC) because its active ingredient can be misused to make drugs.

Bitter Lemon (Schweppes and other brands) became harder to find over the late 90s and I haven't seen it retail (i.e. in stores) this whole millenium. It had quinine.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 08:01 PM

Sudafed and other decongestants are bad news. Rebound congestion can easily outweigh the original problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 08:36 PM

Sudafed is strong - the "full" dose of two has me bouncing off the walls. I haven't read that rebound is an effect, though. There is a nasal clearing spray called Afrin that has been noted for years to be problematic that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Helen
Date: 02 Dec 18 - 11:18 PM

Yep, Steve. Same here:

"It lasts about half an hour and consists of a scintillating, multicoloured broken circle of light which has jagged teeth on the inside of the circle. Over time the circle enlarges until it extends to the edges of my visual field, then disappears"

See the image on this page. The circle starts as a visual disturbance for me, then enlarges into a half moon shape towards the left or right side, and eventually gets so large that it leaves the "screen" of my vision.

This is similar to my visual migraine experience

Do a Google image search "scintillating scotoma" for more representations of what other people see.

My other eye/brain issue does not relate to Moiré patterns, which do their thing for everyone, including me.

It is Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome. Black print on white backgrounds jump up and down for me, or have grey shadows around all the letters, and close black and white line patterns do little jiggly dances which can be nauseating. I have special coloured lenses in my glasses and use a neutral, darker than usual background on my computer for print.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 12:18 AM

"For the sake of transatlantic harmony, paracetamol is the same thing as acetaminophen and Tylenol.

Interesting discussion about migraine auras (which is what I call them). I don't get migraine headaches, though I can feel ropey for hours before an aura. Once the aura has passed I'm OK. The aura consists of a visual disturbance which is more than bad enough to stop me from driving. It lasts about half an hour and consists of a scintillating, multicoloured broken circle of light which has jagged teeth on the inside of the circle. Over time the circle enlarges until it extends to the edges of my visual field, then disappears, leaving me feeling a bit knackered but otherwise OK. I've had five auras over about five years, but, since my dad died six weeks ago, I've had two."

In Revelstoke, BC, Mrs Backwoodsperson and I searched a large drugstore high and low for paracetamol. Eventually, we had to ask the pharmacist, who laughed and said, "You guys must be British! It's over there, called 'acetaminophen'!". Well duh! :-)

You've described perfectly the visual attacks I get three or four times a year, usually apparently brought on by tiredness or stress. Mine is more like a curve than a circle and, like you, that's all I get - no actual headache, although my head feels 'dull' or 'muzzy' for an hour or two afterwards. As soon as I get the visual disturbance, if possible, I draw the curtains and lie down for an hour or so, and it clears leaving me with the 'muzzy' head.

Mrs. Backwoodsperson gets the full migraine blast - very bad headache, strong visual disturbance and, eventually, she throws up, after which she's very quickly back to normal. Her attacks can last for several hours.

Great, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 12:23 AM

Helen, thanks for that link - that's precisely what I see when I get a migraine, and your description exactly matches my own experiences.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Helen
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 01:03 AM

I just re-read what I quoted from Steve. I forgot to say that my crescent moon pattern is more light yellow than multicoloured. More like the colour of the filament in an incandescent light bulb.

Yes, stress seems to be a trigger sometimes for me, too.

Backwoodsman, if you are not a big coffee drinker, try the instant coffee trick. It fixes my visual migraines within a few minutes. If I don't stop the visual part then I do tend to get the nausea and muzzy headedness, accompanied by grumpiness - well, more grumpiness than usual, that is. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 01:50 AM

Helen, my visual disturbance is yellow and purple.

I drink very little coffee - probably less than one cup per day on average, say five or six a week. I'm English, I drink tea! ;-) :-)

I used to drink coffee all day when I worked but, since I retired six years ago, tea and water are my tipples. I don't drink alcohol at all, haven't touched the stuff since December 2005.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Helen
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 02:54 AM

So, Backwoodsman, this may mean that the coffee trick would work for you too. It's worth a try. I have used espresso coffee once when I was out somewhere and it did work but instant coffee seems to work better.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Thompson
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 03:41 AM

Sablons Healing Gel is magic for cuts and grazes.
Neilmed saline rinse is great for keeping sinuses clear, and Vick’s make a gadget like a mask with a cup under it that you fill with hot water and a squirt of oregano or rosemary essential oil and then breathe the steam in through your nose to de-inflame your sinuses.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 03:45 AM

I'll try that next time Helen. And I'll try to remember to report back here!

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 03:52 AM

Forget all about it but the mention of Vick reminded me. Vick standard vaporub works for getting rid of fungal nail infections. Daft as it sounds someone recommended it to me and, where the expensive treatment failed, a smear of Vick every evening until the discoloration had grown out cured mine!

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 04:09 AM

We have a village bee-keeper, and my husband tried a teaspoonful of his honey every day last winter in order to desensitise him from the pollen which poleaxes him every Spring. His hay fever really is very serious.

It worked quite well, but gave no no protection from tree pollen, local airborne pesticides/fertilisers or fungal spores. He also has to use certain cleaning products at work, which I suspect also cause reactions.
He's tried Piriton, Piritese, Pirinase (in fact anything beginning with Piri...!) also various rather strong decongestants (eg Otrivine), which only cause reactive congestion/inflammation and make him worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 04:47 AM

What do you do with the neatsfoot oil then, Mr R? Rub it in the joint?

Yes. on rather than in and what residue is left on yer hands - is good fer the bodhran. (cue badhran (sic) jokes)

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Jos
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 05:04 AM

I get those multicoloured spreading circles occasionally, usually as a result of stress, but no headache or anything else. I don't drive so no problem there. I rather enjoy them - very jazzy.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 05:24 AM

When using OTC liquid or gloppy preparations, read the label. They nearly all contain scents, emulsifiers or microbicides that some people can be seriously sensitive to. (You don't want to end up taking your partner into A&E at 2am because of a reaction to thiazolinone as I did once).

Scents (aka "Parfum") don't have to be named on the label and can be lethally allergenic. All thiazolinone-related microbicides can cause sensitivity reactions and are included in the standard sets of patches used by allergists. Parabens may cause reactions in people who are sensitized to aspirin.

If the same chemical is available as either a cream or an ointment, go for the ointment. Creams contain water, which germs can breed in - so the manufacturers add microbicides to stop them. Solid preparations (powders, soaps) also don't need stuff to stop germs.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 05:35 AM

Sen, has your hubby tried Vaseline smeared inside each nostril? Did not work too well for me but other people swear by it. What helps with mine (dust allergy, all year round) is a generic cetitizine tablet every day combined with beconase nasal spray.

I also use Sterimar saline nasal spray to clear any congestion and that is very good. Found out yesterday that it also stops your eyes stinging after cutting up onions!:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 05:49 AM

"Mine is more like a curve than a circle and, like you, that's all I get - no actual headache, although my head feels 'dull' or 'muzzy' for an hour or two..."

I could just as well have said curve rather than broken circle. By the time it extends to the periphery of my field of vision it's definitely more of a curve. I can be headachey before it happens and feel fuzzy for a while afterwards. I'm definitely not safe to drive for an hour or more.

The visual disturbance is a painless phenomenon while it's happening and I too have learned to relax, do nothing for half an hour and, well, sort of enjoy it!

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 06:21 AM

Dave, yes he's tried Vaseline around his nostrils, and also Beconase.
He has shelves stacked with products, poor chap.

The main problem is that Africans have very short, wide nostrils extremely well-adapted to their hot climate. Air can be drawn in easily, unlike Caucasian noses (especially Scandinavian ones) which are quite long and let the air warm up before it reaches the lungs.

So in his case, air goes zooming in straight through his nasal passages without let or hindrance. Pollen isn't filtered, and of course his body had never encountered pollen in his home territory.

His sinuses become very painful too, which leads to headaches.
He's very stoic though, and soldiers on regardless. (I'd be moaning my head off if it were me!)

My vertigo was very debilitating. I'd be vomiting for England and everything would be spinning round. Visually it looked as if our bedroom was turning. Four days of this and I was at the end of my tether.
My sister thinks it's a kind of vestibular neuronitis. But thankfully, abstaining from delicious blue/runny cheeses and dark, strong chocolate :( has prevented any more episodes!

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 07:38 AM

I get ferocious fits of allergic sneezing too - pollen or scented cleaning materials mostly. (Synthetic scents in cleaning sprays can set me off at levels so low I can't actually smell them; some trees are so allergenic at some times of year I avoid bus routes that go past them).

Antihistamines (loratadine, acrivastine, cetirizine) help, but what makes the largest difference is avoiding certain grain products, particularly bread and pastry wheat and dry-cooked oat biscuits. The concept is called "total allergic load" - if you're slightly allergic to one thing, exposure to it may produce a reaction to something else entirely. In my case it seems to be particles of dry foods like bread that cause trouble when they float up my nose.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 08:44 AM

Note that the jagged cresant phenomenon is sensed in your field of vision in both eyes, no matter which one you close, which means that the disturbance happens past the corpus callosome in the brain, most likely in the occipital rear region of the brain itself. If you try you can effect the lightning eye patterns by increasing it or diminishing it. Usually the pattern goes away after 20 minutes for me.

These are clues as to how the storm in the electric brain is sensed but what causes it or what it is, I have no idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 09:12 AM

That's very interesting Jack. He may well be allergic to a whole range of things.
I had thought of suggesting he gets one of those allergy tests at the doctor's, where they put lots of different stuff all up your arm then see if a reaction occurs.
The thing is he lived in a totally different environment for the early part of his life, and had never seen bread, potatoes, flour, no trees around at all, no flowers or bees, no agricultural crops, no butter, milk or dairy foods. He may well be reacting to those as well as the pollens.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 12:22 PM

The physician I saw about 20 years ago explained that part of my sinus allergy problems may be that the receptors in my nose respond to things that I'm not actually allergic to any more. So he recommended using one of the nasal sprays (Flonase) that work with the nasal receptors, reducing the need for the systemic treatment (Zyrtec, Allegra, etc.) The theory is "why treat the whole body when only the nose needs it?" When I was diagnosed with PMR I decided I needed to treat the symptoms of allergies with the nasal spray and only add the Zyrtec (generic is cetirizine) when there is a larger load of pollen or fungus in the air. I am off of the steroids now but am still following treatments that involve fewer medications.

Flonase is available over the counter now and I can buy it inexpensively in bulk with a year's supply at a local warehouse club.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 01:24 PM

"Flonase" sounds like a rather unfortunate word, seemingly alluding to a runny nose. A well-known haemorrhoid cream this end is called "Anusol," even more unfortunately named, I'd say... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Helen
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 02:42 PM

Senoufou, just before the Easter break this year I woke in the middle of the night with severe vertigo, which I had never experienced before, except for a couple of very mild episodes a long time ago.

I did a Google search and found out about The Epley Manoeuvre

This works only if the problem is the little particles swishing around in the chamber of your ear and setting off the balance receptors (that's the highly technical description - not!). You also need to know which ear has the problem. I knew it was my right ear because when I lay on my right side and then sat up, the problem occurred.

Read all the information and decide if it is worth a try. There are also videos online showing how to do it, but look for the one by Dr John Epley himself. Interestingly, the medical community pooh-poohed his technique for many years until there was enough of a wave of satisfied clients to turn the tide.

Prior to finding out about the EM, I was vomiting and off my food for a couple of weeks. When I used the EM, it fixed it within a few attempts.

I told my doctor that I didn't need him, because I had found Doctor Google. He laughed. Some wouldn't. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 03:01 PM

Hello there Helen.
Yes, I've known about the Epley Manoeuvre. But it's mainly for addressing benign paroxysmal positional vertigo.

I'm only going by what my sister told me, but for vestibular neuronitis, one should avoid ingesting bacteria such as those found in ripe, runny cheese or blue cheese. It can also be triggered by a virus.
I think my sis was right as I've avoided any more episodes. (But I do so miss my smelly Camembert and Danish blue cheese!)

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Helen
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 03:04 PM

Sinus, nasal allergies, tummy bugs etc:

Back in 2004 my hubby read an article about an artificial sugar called xylitol. Scientific community reactions to the claims of it's health benefits followed the usual path: 1. pooh-poohed as an old wives' tale, 2. well maybe there is some benefit to using it, but we don't know how it works 3. amazing new scientific discovery!

Xylitol is the active ingredient in cranberry juice which has been used by women for some time as a way of relieving urinary tract infection symptoms, hence the pooh-poohing by the scientific community. "If it makes you think it is working, and it has no negative side-effects, then there is no reason to stop using it, but it won't cure you."

xylitol

After reading the article, we went out and bought some from the health food shop. As it happened, there was a really bad tummy bug doing the rounds at work. It came on suddenly and people were sick for days. I was sitting at work and suddenly this wave of nausea hit me, out of the blue. I thought I was in for the whole experience, however, I took a teaspoonful of xylitol in some water, and the nausea subsided straight away. Every couple of hours the nausea came back and I hit it again with the xylitol. This went on for a day or so, but I managed to avoid the whole yucky experience.

Xylitol was used in experiments originally on children to see if the sugar substitute was better for their teeth than sugar. What the scientists found was that the side benefit for the children on xylitol was that they had significantly less ear infections than the other control subjects.

The especially interesting bit is that the xylitol bonds with the "bugs" which would normally bond with the cell walls of your nasal passages or your tummy, etc so most of the bugs get flushed out of your system without creating the havoc they were created to make.

Since reading the article, I have used an empty Sinex bottle which I fill with boiled water and about half a teaspoon of xylitol. If my sinuses are playing up, I use that instead of the steroid based over-the-counter medications.

I still have a scanned copy of the original article. There has been more research since then, including using it for cystic fibrosis patients. It's the best all round treatment I have found for tummy and nasal issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Helen
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 03:06 PM

Senoufou, I think my vertigo was triggered by a virus, but it responded to the Epley Manoeuvre.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Jos
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 04:04 PM

If you are tempted to use xylitol, beware if you are a dog owner. For dogs, xylitol is lethal.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Helen
Date: 03 Dec 18 - 04:58 PM

Thanks Jos. The page I linked to has a section entitled "Xylitol is toxic to dogs".

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 08:40 AM

YOU NEVER KNOW, MAYBE XYLITOL WOULD BE MORE HUMANE THAN PUMPING ALL THE AIR OUT OF A CHAMBER THAT BURSTS LUNGS AND EYES WHICH IS HOW DOGS ARE DOGS ARE EXTERMINATED IN THE US
CAPS ARE UNINTENTIONAL
Dogs with owners are given a sedative and potassium.

Steve what do you mean you can't move without 'it'. Rheumatism?

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 09:16 AM

I go all stiff, but only in the wrong places.

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 09:26 AM

I don't believe Donuel's description of dog euthanasia. Evacuating a chamber is slow and expensive. Asphyxia by carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide or nitrogen would be cheaper as well as less painful - they are used more for small animals though. For dogs the usual methods use anaesthetic agents (isoflurane or pentothal).

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 09:30 AM

Xylitol is an ingredient of many brands of chewing gum: never touch it myself, but not for that reason!

Subject: RE: BS: Helpful ointments & medications
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 18 - 05:08 PM

Jim I think there was an outcry when that method was exposed years ago.
It was cheap. It only cost electricity, a small room, air pump and duct tape.

I don't need Aspercreme since the cause of my ankle pain is under my own behavioral control. It is exacerbated by high blood sugar. But you know there are times I don't want to be controlled and I eat some chocolate cake anyway.