the Messiah. king George

Subject: the Messiah. king George
From: leeneia
Date: 20 Dec 18 - 11:30 AM

Last night my Dear Husband and I went to a rip-snorting production of Handel's Messiah. I thought I had seen all the productions of Messiah that I wanted to, but the newspaper wrote that this one (by the Spire Chamber Ensemble) would feature original-style instruments and only 16 singers. Lured on a picture of what seemed to be recorders but turned out to be oboes, we went.

It was great! There were 16 singers, and they competently switched modes from soloist to choral. There was no class system (four soloists versus mere choristers).   Instead, any singer might step forth to do a solo. And some pieces were in a new voice. How nice it was to hear "...and I will sha-a-a-a-a-ke" sung by an agile contralto. And "How lovely are the feet of them" done by a tenor.

Speaking of contra, two pieces were done by a countertenor. I'd never heard that before.

This was at the Performing Arts Center in Kansas City, where the philanthropists squeezed us in like sardines. I didn't have enough leg-room, and I'm only 5'3".

When we got to the Hallelujah chorus, the audience rose to its feet with one giant Whump sound. (This was before they'd even played the first note.) I've decided that King George rose for the chorus because it's a splendid piece of music AND because he was dying to get off his chair. I know I was.

The applause was tremendous. Tell me, do people in other places whoop and roar like they're at a rodeo? Because that's what we did.
A few fools whistled, and I had to stop applauding and cover my ears. I hate that sound! It hurts. Other than that, it was one of the great musical events of my life.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: Steve Jones
Date: 20 Dec 18 - 06:34 PM

"Tell me, do people in other places whoop and roar like they're at a rodeo?"

Although I've never been to a rodeo, this sounds like the sort of behaviour you can expect at a evening of traditional dance in Québec...

But perhaps you meant at performances of the Messiah, in which case I don't know. :) At any rate, I'm glad you got to enjoy such a great musical experience.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: leeneia
Date: 20 Dec 18 - 09:31 PM

Thanks, Steve.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: JHW
Date: 21 Dec 18 - 06:13 AM

Sounds a great show, I like the idea of the soloists not being parachuted in as they usually are. Have seen/heard countertenor. Have been impressed though by soloist, more than once who had no score and knew it. (Like we folk singers do). Only saw/heard Pt1 this year and missed out on 'All wee like sheep'. (Though they ended with Hallelujah).

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Dec 18 - 01:11 PM

All we like sheep! That was the one where I said to myself, "Handel is having great fun with this one." It almost sounds like a folk dance.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Dec 18 - 01:25 PM

We occasionally stay in a Hotel in Dublin, in Fishamble Street, 'The George Frederick Handel, next door to where The Messiah was premiered in 1741
A few years ago we were greeted by the sounds of voices doing a mini performance of of it drifting up from the somewhat scruffy street below - magic.
The area was a notorious red-light district adjacent to Christchurch Cathedral - at one time the street acquired the name 'Copper Alley', a reference to the popular cure for syphilis

Not a lot of people know that !
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Dec 18 - 10:47 PM

Not a lot of people know that the composer's royalties went to the London Foundling Hospital for homeless children. At least some of the royalties, anyway.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 21 Dec 18 - 11:03 PM

And, because it was a benefit, the audience members were asked to not wear hoop skirts and ceremonial swords so more people could fit in the hall and thus raise more money!

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: Andy7
Date: 22 Dec 18 - 03:54 AM

In his will, Handel left a year's wages to each of his servants.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 22 Dec 18 - 04:18 PM

Julia L....

That is fascinating!!!

Do you have a source/reference?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle
Leenia and Andy7.... could/would you post a link to the knowledge you have shared?   A publushed book and page...a professor and lecture date location...a newspaper or handbill?

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 18 - 04:55 PM

I live near Chester, where Handel tried out Messiah on his way to Holyhead to catch the boat. He was not impressed by the Cathedral Choir, having been told that they could sight read. "Yes but not at first sight" was apparently their reply (about how I feel too).

2 years ago, having wanted to for 50 years I went to a singing day to sing Messiah. I'd discovered you could learn the alto line on youtube, so took courage. The cut that I was disappointed at was "Let us Break their Bonds" - a splendid alto line.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: leeneia
Date: 22 Dec 18 - 11:01 PM

Hello, Guest. I feel that very few singers can sight read with accuracy. Music majors can take a good stab at it, but musical notation works best for people with instruments in their hands.

I have encountered only two people who could really sight read. One was a top pediatric oncologist who also speaks Russian and plays clarinet. Clearly a superior brain. The other was a man with a beautiful tenor voice, clearly trained.

Isn't it great being able to hear parts on the Internet? I learned Mozart and Vivaldi alto parts that way.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: JennieG
Date: 23 Dec 18 - 12:35 AM

Sounds like a great evening, leeneia....would have loved to have been there!

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: leeneia
Date: 24 Dec 18 - 12:55 PM

Thanks, Jennie. I'm sure you would have enjoyed it.

Acoustical note: Helzberg Hall in our Performing Arts Center is said to have great acoustics. I guess it does. Have you ever noticed that classical singers now put an H sound behind a K sound? (I asked one about it, and he said they do it on purpose to make the K stand out.)

At one point in the concert a bass put an H sound on the K sound which actually begins "Christ", and the puffy, aspirant H sound seemed to fill the whole hall and bounce off the walls. (I have good ears.)

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Dec 18 - 04:19 PM

There are multiple English-language sources, Gargoyle and friends,
to corroborate the statements posted.

A Dublin periodical, titled the Public Advertiser, is quoted below: to be accurate, this notice is later than the famous premiere performance in Dublin. In fact it took place just after Handel had died peacefully of natural causes.

"From the Foundling Hospital: -- in GRATEFUL MEMORY of George Frederick Handel, Esq., on Thursday, the 24th day of May, at the chapel of the Hospital, under the direction of Mr. John Christopher Smith, will be a performance of SACRED MUSIC, which will begin at exactly 12 o'clock at noon. Tickets, half a guinea each. Mr. Stanley will, on this occasion, perform a concerto on the organ. Gentlemen are desired to come without swords, and ladies without hoops. Books may be had at the Hospital, price sixpence."

--footnote: Public Advertiser, 22nd of May, 1759.

--page 334, Chapter X, The Life of Handel translated from the original French by Mr. James Lowe, the original French written by Victor Schölcher. London: by special appointment music publishers to their Majesties Queen Victoria and the Emperor Napoleon III, Robert Cocks & Co., New Burlington Street, 1857.
May be viewed at Google Books.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Dec 18 - 04:35 PM

And here, a notice quoted from Faulkner's Journal.

"This day will be performed Mr. Handel's new grand sacred Oratorio, called the Messiah. Doors will be opened at eleven, and and the performance begin at twelve. The Stewards of the Charitable Music Society request the favour of the ladies not to come with hoops this day to the Music Hall. The gentlemen are desired to come without their swords." (13 April 1742)

-- page 198, "Music and the Drama", no byline and no identified journalist author, from The Canadian Monthly and National Review, vol. 7, no. 2, February 1875.

may be viewed at Google Books.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: leeneia
Date: 25 Dec 18 - 12:09 PM

Thanks, keberoxu.

It surprises me that men were wearing swords to concerts as late as 1742. I've pictured men in swords while dancing in Shakespeare's time, but not in 1742.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: Hagman
Date: 25 Dec 18 - 08:58 PM

The BBC documentary "Messiah at the Foundling Hospital" is available to view here.

Some nice background:
http://www.hogwood.org/archive/composers/handel/reconstructing-messiah-performances.html

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: leeneia
Date: 26 Dec 18 - 04:01 PM

Thanks, Hagman. I'll watch that video tonight.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: JHW
Date: 27 Dec 18 - 06:18 AM

Re Sight Reading I'm pleased to read reassurances. When I was in a village church choir the Vicar would come to each of us and sing us our line to help at practice. I asked her how she could do this. Reply was that she had learned to read Music at age 3 along with learning to read words.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: Mo the caller
Date: 27 Dec 18 - 07:09 AM

Yes, most of us learn to sing 'by ear' even if we learn to play 'from the dots'.
I'm hoping that just as my ability to play by ear has improved after several years of going to sessions, my singing from the dots will now I'm in a choir. But for now YouTube, Choirparts etc are my crutch. It doesn't help when the music is in a stupid number of flats. When learning piano we had to sing different intervals for some of the grade exams, but to turn 8 flats into tonic-so-fa then work out what the intervals sound like would be worse than a 5 yr old spelling out c-a-t with a finger under the page. Far too slow.

(I didn't realise I was logged out when I posted on 22nd)

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Dec 18 - 01:52 PM

Around here, "sing-along Messiah" performances are popular every December. A mixed blessing, to be sure.

I'm still waiting for the dance-along Nutcracker.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: leeneia
Date: 27 Dec 18 - 02:02 PM

Yes, Mo, I'm aure sight-reading gets better the more we sing to sheet music.

Michael: good quip!

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: Mo the caller
Date: 27 Dec 18 - 05:23 PM

Why a mixed blessing Michael? Those who want to can go and sing - those who don't can stay home.
Though Nantwich did manage to fit some audience in too - which made it a bit tricky for the soloists as the 'choir' filled the main body of the church, then orchestra and soloists, then a small audience (in what I think might be called the Transept). So which way would they face (I had difficulty hearing them when they turned to the audience).

A friend went along to what she thought was a performance and found that everyone else was singing!

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: Charmion
Date: 29 Dec 18 - 12:58 PM

Yes, leenia, people in other places whoop and roar in delight at Handel’s Messiah. Stratford, Ontario, for example.

Another choral work that gets the blood up to that extent is Orff’s Carmina Burana. When I sang it with the University of Ottawa chorus, the audience stamped and howled until the conductor turned around, raised his baton, and kicked off an encore of O Fortuna. Then they stamped and howled again until the stage manager turned on the house lights and the orchestra began putting their instruments away.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: Mo the caller
Date: 29 Dec 18 - 02:03 PM

Sounds like the Proms in the Albert Hall. The audience there are enthusiastic and never like to let the soloists go (or were 50 yrs ago - don't suppose they've changed).
Seems very strange now when I go to concerts in Cheshire, some polite applause, the conductor and soloists come back, bow, a little more applause which has stopped before they even get out again.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Dec 18 - 09:51 AM

Further developments: I learned later that three local high schools had contributed choirs which joined the Hallelujah Chorus. No doubt the enthusiasm of relatives contributed to the audience response.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Dec 18 - 10:14 AM

A few years ago I met with the historian Louise Yeoman to talk about what she'd found about the Dublin premiere. The link was the Scottish musician Charles Maclean, whose wild semi-classical versions of Scottish tunes I have on my website (his variations on "Johnny Cope" have gone into Cape Breton tradition). Maclean left Scotland in his 20s, became a tutor to the royal family and one of London's leading organists. And shagged his way through the London opera houses on his way up. He was having an affair with Handel's lead soprano (who was married to someone else) at the time of the premiere, and went to Dublin to perform with her on his organ. Yeoman had found some outrageously salacious historical sidelights; she was going to make it into a radio documentary, but, the story would have made a terrific bodice-ripping biopic in the Ken Russell manner.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: leeneia
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 10:51 AM

Well maybe. There are always jealous people who attribute a woman's success to sleeping around, rather than to her own talent.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 12:00 PM

That wasn't an issue at all in this saga.

Subject: RE: the Messiah. king George
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 12:02 PM

Are we talking about Susannah Arne Cibber?