Thomas the Rhymer - MacColl omission

Subject: Thomas the Rhymer - MacColl omission
From: GUEST,Chris Lamb
Date: 17 Jan 19 - 11:06 AM

An esoteric question born of curiosity: the recording of Thomas the Rhymer by Ewan MacColl for Folkways Records (FG 3509) has the lyrics, word for word, of Child's version C, but omits two of the strongest verses (15 & 16) with their striking imagery:

O they rade on, and farther on
And they waded thro rivers aboon the knee
And they saw neither sun nor moon
But they heard the roaring of the sea.

It was mirk mirk night, and there was nae stern light
And they waded thro red blude to the knee;
For a' the blude that's shed on earth
Rins thro the springs o that countrie.

We can speculate about the reasons for the omission, but does anyone know for a fact why those verses are missing from MacColl's recording? Jim Carroll?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1RxXt7V1xA

https://folkways-media.si.edu/liner_notes/folkways/FW03509.pdf

Links added by Joe Offer

Subject: RE: Thomas the Rhymer - MacColl omission
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Jan 19 - 02:24 PM

Ewan knows but he's dead.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Thomas the Rhymer - MacColl omission
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Jan 19 - 02:48 PM

Scott's version is a collation anyway so Ewan probably decided to deal with it how he wanted, or he may have seen Mrs Brown's version (A) which doesn't contain those stanzas and decided they were of Scott's own hand, which is as likely as anything.

Subject: RE: Thomas the Rhymer - MacColl omission
From: GUEST,Chris Lamb
Date: 18 Jan 19 - 08:07 AM

There are many differences between Child's version A and version C, but stanza 7 of version A does contain parts of both the stanzas that MacColl omits, so a suspicion that they were Scott's own work can't be the explanation. MacColl follows Version C faithfully except for the omission of two stanzas. There seems no obvious reason why MacColl, or anyone else, should doubt their authenticity.

Subject: RE: Thomas the Rhymer - MacColl omission
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Jan 19 - 01:05 PM

Seeing that Scott himself doubted the authenticity of a lot of material in the Border Minstrelsy I think we're entitled to have doubts as well.
He eventually regretted his remaking.

To be precise Scott had seen Mrs Brown's versions and used them in his own collations.

Here's where those 2 stanzas came from:
Stanza 15 is composed of line 1 from A8 line 1, lines 2-4 are A7 lines 2-4.
Stanza 16: line 1 has similarities with some of the revenant ballads.
Line 2 is A7 line 2 again and 3&4 are epitomised from A9, 3&4.

As you will gather I am of the Henderson school.