Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording

Subject: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer
From: GUEST,Dunlace
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 04:56 AM

I'm researching Thomas the Rhymer as part of a PhD. There is a recording by Ewan McColl, RIVERSIDE RLP-12-621 1956 but I am having no success finding a copy of it. Is there an mp3 out there anywhere?

Thanks for any help you can offer. All the best, Dunlace

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 11:17 AM

You may already know this, but the version MacColl sings on the album is Sir Walter Scott's. Bronson has the tune.

And don't overlook Steeleye Span's rockin' redaction on "Now We Are Six."

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Record
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 12:25 PM

Chris Wood sings a version of Child #37 which he calls True Thomas in 5/4 time which is absolutely stunning. Unfortunately it is not yet recorded so you'd need to catch a live performance.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: Zorg
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 09:32 AM

You can also find 'Thomas the Rhymer' in 'The Oxford Book Of Ballads' & 'The Ballad Book' edited by MacEdward Leach 2 versions

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: Roberto
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 10:26 AM

Dunlace, indicate your e-mail, through PM if you prefer, and I'll send you the recording. R

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: Fliss
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 06:20 PM

Hi Dunlace

I have a novel by Nigel Tranter called True Thomas.
Coronet Books 1981 ISBN 0-340-32815-0

He was Thomas Learmonth of Ercildoune. He lived in the time of Alexander 111 of Scotland and fortold the future through rhymes he wrote down of dreams he had. One prophesy that a church would collapse didnt come true for hundreds of years.

He was supposed to have been taken off to fairyland by the fairy queen. In fact he ran off with his lord's daughter.

Hope that is of help.
fliss

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Record
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 06:24 PM

"Scalacronica"

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: Mrs_Annie
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 10:29 AM

Chris Wood sings a version of Child #37 which he calls True Thomas in 5/4 time which is absolutely stunning. Unfortunately it is not yet recorded so you'd need to catch a live performance

I haven't heard him do that, unfortunately. Any idea if it will be on his solo album?

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: GUEST,dunlace
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 11:04 AM

Thanks a million. [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: Roberto
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 12:09 PM

Dunlace, I've sent you a mail. Let me know if there are problems. R

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: GUEST,Dunlace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 01:45 PM

It hasn't arrived yet. Looking forward to it!

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: Roberto
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 01:55 PM

Strange, I sent it yesterday. I'll try again tomorrow morning (I'm not at home at the moment). R

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: GUEST,Dunlace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:08 AM

Still nada. What can be wrong? Can you upload it somewhere so I can download? All the best, D

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Record
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:17 AM

The song mentions the fifth of november so I am interested in the date of the song. Anyone have a clue

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:17 PM

Dunlace, your researches may have already led you to Duncan Williamson, but it is still worth noting his versions on record here. He is a Scots Traveller who learned the ballad from his uncle and his singing of it can be heard on two separate cassettes, and it was also published in A Thorn in The King's Foot, Penguin Folklore Library, 1987.

The tapes are:-
Put another log on the fire; Duncan Williamson - Songs and Tunes from a Scots Traveller Veteran Tapes VT128, 1994.

MARY AND THE SEAL and Other Folktales; Traditional Storytelling by Duncan Williamson Springthyme SPRC1019, 1987.

Sadly the book and tapes are all out of issue, but second hand copies can still be found.

Matthew

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: Dunlace
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 03:24 AM

Thanks everybody for your informative replies. I have ordered Duncan Williamson's recording (Veteran VT 128 'Put Another Log on the Fire'). It's still available from veteran.co.uk as a cassette. Roberto's mp3 sadly doesn't seem able to reach me through the magic ether of the internet. Suggestions, anybody?

I don't know any version of Thomas the Rhymer that mentions Nov. 5th.

This is a great group!

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: Snuffy
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 09:05 AM

Dunlace - it may be the MP3 is bigger than your e-mail will allow you to receive, so it's being blocked on your server.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Record
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 03:39 PM

The fifth of November is mentioned in my version of "Spencer the Rover"... Copper Family...

All the best!
ttr

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Record
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 04:03 PM

On the fifth day of November, I've a reason to remember

Always been a bit suspicious about that line. Gunpowder, treason and plot...and all that.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Record
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 07:02 AM

the wonder is what the date of that version of the song is....?

anyone know?

Conrad

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Record
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 07:07 AM

Cooper Family Versions


These words were composed by Spencer the Rover
who had travelled Great Britain and most parts of Wales
he had been so reduced which caused great confusion
and that was the reason he went on the roam

In Yorkshire near Rotherham he had been on his rambles
being weary of travelling he sat down to rest
at the foot of yonder mountain there runs a clear fountain
with bread and cold water he himself did refresh

It tasted more sweeter than the gold he had wasted
more sweeter than honey and gave more content
but the thoughts of his babies lamenting their father
brought tears to his eyes and caused him to lament

the night fast approaching to the woods he resorted
with woodbine and ivy his bed for to make
there he dreamt about sighing lamenting and crying
to home to your family and rambling forsake

on the fifth of November I've a reason to remember
when first he arrived home to his family and wife
they stood so surprised when first he arrived
to see such a stranger once more in their sight

his children came around him with their prittle-prattling stories
with their prittle-prattling stories to drive care away
now they are united like birds of one feather
like bees in one hive contented they'll stay

so now he is a-living in his cottage contented
with woodbine and roses growing all around the door
he's as happy as those that's got thousands of riches
contented he'll stay and go rambling no more

version 2
This song was composed by Spencer the Rover,
Who'd travelled most parts of Great Britain and Wales,
There had been much reducing which caused great confusion,
And that was the reason a-rambling I went.

In Yorkshire near Rotherham still being on my rambles,
Being weary of travelling I sat down to rest,
At the foot of the mountain there sprung a clear fountain
Of pleasant cool water myself to refresh.

It tasted more sweeter than the food I had wasted,
More sweeter than honey and gave more content,
But the thoughts of my children lamenting for their father
Brought tears to my eyes and caused me to repent.

Now the night fast approaching, to the woods I departed,
With woodbine and ivy my bed for to make,
I heard a bird sighing, lamenting and crying,
Come home to your family and rambling forsake.

On the fifth of November I've a reason to remember
'Twas then I first returned to my family and wife,
They looked so surprising to see me arriving,
To see such a stranger once more in their sight.

Then me children came round me with their pretty, prattling stories,
With their pretty, prattling stories which drove dull care away,
So we will unite together like birds of a feather,
Like bees in one hive so contented we'll stay.

So now I am placed in my cottage contented
With woodbine and roses climbing all round the door,
I am happy as those that's got plenty of riches,
Contented I'll stay and go rambling no more.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: GUEST,Dunlace
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 10:25 AM

What has this to do with the thread?

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Record
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 10:45 AM

precious little...

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 10:46 AM

Nothing whatever; but, in answer to Conrad's question, probably about 1830 or just a little earlier.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Record
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 04:21 PM

Thanks!
Is there a source for that date anywhere....I guess I can take a look at the cooper family publications.
The origin of the use of the phrase \
Remember Remember the Fifth of November
has never been fully pinned down.

This date would fit the other historical pieces of the puzzle.
Thanks but just a bit more information.....

Conrad

Subject: RE: Origins: Thomas the Rhymer-seek MacColl Recording
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 11:18 AM

I have a 12" LP of MacColl called "The English and Scottish Popular Ballads (Child Ballads) Sung and with Notes by Ewan MacColl" It's Folkways FG3509 and the last track on side 2 is "Thomas Rymer"

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