BS: jeffrey epstein suicide

Subject: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Iains
Date: 10 Aug 19 - 04:58 PM

After a previous failed suicide attmpt, the latest one was a success.
Was it suicide or was he suicided?. Was he not on 24/7 suicide watch?
Presumably a lot of "important" people will breathe easier after his demise, if the rumours are anything close to the truth.
There is talk that many documents were found. Conspiracy theorists could have a field day with this.
The important aspect of this is that the victims still require justice.
I wonder how this is best served, and by whom?


One view

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Aug 19 - 05:01 PM

Political activist Michael Moore suggests that at the very least Trump's Attorney General William Barr had a lot of reasons to leave Epstein to his own devices (no current suicide watch). Trump was a frequent player in Epstein's circle of influence, and vice versa.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: meself
Date: 10 Aug 19 - 05:09 PM

I question the use of the wording - not yet seen here, but I've heard it elsewhere today - that Epstein "escaped justice". It's not like he's sitting on a beach in Bermuda; feeling compelled to commit suicide, or being murdered, in a prison cell may not be "justice" - but it's pretty close .....

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Aug 19 - 05:20 PM

Epstein knew that he wasn't going to enjoy ANY of his life in prison, and he knew he was gonna be there..unless....

As to Michael Moore's theory... sure.. I wouldn't be a bit surprised that Trump didn't like the idea that Epstein might testify to some awkward stuff. Whether & how his suicide was 'facilitated', I doubt anyone will be able to prove.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: bobad
Date: 10 Aug 19 - 05:40 PM

A guy who had information that would have destroyed rich and powerful men’s lives ends up dead in his jail cell. How predictably...Russian.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Aug 19 - 05:52 PM

"Suicide watch" normally means the watchers are trying to prevent a suicide... maybe not this time.

The person with the strongest motive is Alex Jones. He was running out of things to make up conspiracy theories about.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Aug 19 - 06:49 PM

HA! In some ways, I hope you're right, Jack. Poor Alex needs something...

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 11 Aug 19 - 08:56 AM

Does Andrew Windsor have an alibi?
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Aug 19 - 09:40 AM

Many men are probably asking themselves the same question. Epstein appears to have commingled his business and social activities with his illicit activities to provide cover for the illicit ones. All eyes seem to have turned to Ghislane Maxwell who seems to have been an enabler who groomed many of the girls who were raped. "Sex trafficking" girls under 18 = rape.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Aug 19 - 10:02 AM

"Does Andrew Windsor have an alibi?"

No, Roger, but Prince Philip has form...

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 11 Aug 19 - 01:44 PM

It was the Clintons! Hillary held him down while Bill put the noose around his neck!

(I know it's true because Trump said so! And he got his information from the guy who brought us Pizzagate!)

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Iains
Date: 11 Aug 19 - 02:17 PM

A man having previously attempted suicide, achieves subsequent success by hanging himself. Epstein was taken off of suicide watch on July 29-. How deuced convenient that was-He could try allover again.
Anyone been suspended/fired for gross negligence yet? Is a coverup occurring?
According to a federal Prosecutor:
Jeffrey Epstein’s suicide ends the criminal case against him because no one else was charged in the indictment. … [It] means that there won’t be a public trial or other proceedings that could reveal evidence of his wrongdoing. Evidence collected via grand jury subpoena won’t be released to the public.
Now isn#t that just tickety boo for all those "names" mentioned:
The 66-year-old’s death came less than a day after a trove of disturbing court documents was made public offering details about his alleged abuse of dozens of mostly underage girls, as well who assisted him with or participated in the abuse — documents which implicate many rich and powerful men from the elite circles Epstein was once a member of.

I wonder if the victims have any legal remedies available to them now Epstein has died?

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Aug 19 - 04:04 PM

The federal court in Southern District of New York is asking for more of his victims to come forward. They're thinking that now a public trial and the testimony in court isn't part of it, more will, and it will be something the estate has to deal with. Sorting out the victims from everyone who decides to jump on that bus will be something the feds can sort out.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Aug 19 - 06:11 PM

One thing that's being largely ignored: HOW did he commit suicide? People assume he hung himself, because some version of that is what he tried previously, but I can't find any reporting of the method.

I also wonder how many things had to fall into place for him to be successful. I don't mind that he's dead and the criminal court (and everybody else) is spared living through the trial, but I wonder who his testimony related to a plea bargain might've implicated.

Of course, it probably WAS the Clintons...

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Aug 19 - 10:28 PM

There was more detail about that this evening in the NY Times. Heads will roll (pardon the pun) because guards were supposed to check on him every 30 minutes and didn't. (I forgot to mention that the source for my information in the last post was from the morning news on Weekend Edition today.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 04:13 PM

So, murder or suicide?

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 04:37 PM

persuasively assisted suicide...???

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 05:46 PM

The whole saga is outraGeous,the powerful and the abusers slip off the hook again

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 06:22 PM

Reminding of when Fred West was found dead in his cell..

That was lucky for all the local bigwigs rumoured to be involved in his sex parties...

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Iains
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 06:31 PM

From a UK newspaper:
Attorney General Bill Barr issued a stark warning to Jeffrey Epstein's alleged co-conspirators on Monday, telling them they 'should not rest easy'.
The investigation into the disgraced financier and his sex crimes looks set to shift its focus following his death to those accused of helping him, in a move that threatens to implicate some of the world's richest, most powerful men.
Speaking at a police event in New Orleans Barr said: 'Let me assure you that this case will continue on against anyone who was complicit with Epstein. Any co-conspirators should not rest easy.

'The victims deserve justice and they will get it.'

I hope he is right!

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: leeneia
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 01:40 AM

What good does it do to check every 30 minutes when a person can suffocate in less time than that?

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 02:35 AM

This death has quickly engendered a wide variety of conspiracy theories. I'm open to a wide variety of possibilities once evidence is found. But for now, I'm inclined to believe the obvious: Epstein realized that he was totally ruined and he had no escape and no defense, so he took the easiest way out and killed himself. Maybe I've read too much Latin literature, but it seems to me that if one realizes that one is incontrovertibly guilty of a capital offense, the only honor left is in suicide.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 03:50 AM

I don’t believe that ‘Epstein’ and ‘honour’ belong in the same sentence, bearing in mind the former’s reported activities over many years.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Iains
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 04:54 AM

Does the underlying investigation that triggered his demise now lose momentum, or widen it's scope. The issue of the corpse is separate and subordinate.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Daniel Kelly
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 08:54 AM

It is a cover up, homeless body shown to the media, Epstein is in the Bahamas. Don't you think a man in his position would have multiple stashes of compromising video and documentation ready to release if he didn't get away?

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 09:09 AM

Yes, it could be a body double that died, and the real Epstein is off somewhere else laughing at the media and calculating how much he can shake his clients down for.

Charlie Ipcar

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 10:31 AM

"Homeless body shown to the media". Didn't happen. The "media" hasn't seen anything.
Joe, it's a stretch to think he cared about honor at all. There were too many "accidental" enabling details, plus the fact he had buddies (such as Trump) in high places to make the suicide feel completely believable to me. I am not an expert, but I don't think people with large egos who are used to hurting others to get what they want are all that apt to kill themselves. I could be wrong, but I'm still suspicious.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 10:47 AM

Today's paper says shrieking heard from his cell before body found. If so, sounds more like murder.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 10:49 AM

I’ve heard people say the Earth is flat - doesn’t make it so.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: leeneia
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 11:22 AM

I agree with you, Joe.

That said, a man who would do the things Epstein did to young women who had never done anything against him is probably inscrutable to the mind of the usual sane and decent Mudcatter.

But one thing I have noticed in reading about child abusers is that a man can do the most hideous things to a child in private and not be bothered, yet care deeply (maybe hysterically) about how he is perceived in the community. Epstein was a man who seemed wealthy, important, good-looking, but that outer appearance was all he had.

When investigation shattered that shell, there was nothing left but shame.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 12:04 PM

Oh, he wouldn't be killed for being a kiddyfiddler. He might for knowing kiddyfiddly things about powerful people.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 12:17 PM

Call it rape. That's what it is.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 01:03 PM

Prince Andrew, well well, whoever next

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Iains
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:00 AM

Some say he died by hanging, others say by strangulation. Mr James Kunstler has hid own unique take on the matter:


https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/he-did-what/
The plot thickens: Some say the Devil's dead............
                      Others say he rose again........

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 09:46 AM

This morning's Washington Post:
"An autopsy found that financier Jeffrey Epstein sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones, according to two people familiar with the findings, deepening the mystery about the circumstances around his death.

Among the bones broken in Epstein’s neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam’s apple. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they are more common in victims of homicide by strangulation, the experts said."

They still don't say whether he had 'something' around his neck.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 10:30 AM

Worst case of suicide I ever saw...

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 11:12 AM

Seems pretty obvious he rigged his suicide to look like murder... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 02:00 PM

Ooh, who is he framing?

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 02:49 PM

He broke his own neck several times before hanging himself to finally do the trick. Sure.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 02:52 PM

I was joking, SRS. The winking smiley was to indicate that.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Iains
Date: 16 Aug 19 - 05:44 AM

When a high profile prisoner attempts suicide several weeks previously, it does not ring true that he was not under continuous surveillance.
This suicide/murder will have to rank number three after:
Assassination of John F. Kennedy
The mysterious collapse of WTC 7

I wonder if all Epstein#s reputed little black books will ever see the light of day?

Supposedly closing his mouth permanently would have suited many important people. I wonder who retains the passenger manifests for all the flights in and out of his island?

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: leeneia
Date: 16 Aug 19 - 03:25 PM

The guy went from superman to superpimp in the eyes of the world.

Also, child pornography was discovered on his computer. My area operated a child pornography sting a few years ago, and a local police chief said, "When you talk about child pornography, you are talking about men raping babies."

Is it any wonder he didn't want to keep living?

Have you ever heard how child molesters are treated by other prisoners?

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Aug 19 - 10:20 PM

Swelp, they've ruled it suicide.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 08:11 AM

Prince Andrew now implicated by association in child abuse scandal via his friendship with - photograph produced
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 10:29 AM

Do you all still lop off royal heads over there?


New York Post

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 10:36 AM

Sometimes it's more than heads ned lopping off !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 11:24 AM

Lol, Jim, but I didn't specify which head in my query.

Subject: RE: BS: jeffrey epstein suicide
From: goatfell
Date: 20 Aug 19 - 07:47 AM

Good riddance and to Jeffery goodbye because you’ll need a lot of sun cream