BS: UK - Rain 2019

Subject: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 04:40 AM

There's been a lot.
Have we got another five months of this?

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 05:07 AM

Just outside Bude we've had over 14 inches since September 21. The annual average is 33 inches. As I sit here it's persisting down yet again.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Iains
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 06:11 AM

who is going to blame it on climate change, El Nino, another Maunder Minimum, or simply weather?

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 06:36 AM

Persistent meridional atmospheric flow with polar jet disposed close to the UK steering depressions over us with just very brief ridges between. In other words, shit happens. Over a long period things tend to even out. Conclusions apropos of climate change have to look at large areas over long periods, not whether it's been pissing down in Yorkshire for a couple of weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 06:39 AM

Steve!

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 06:42 AM

I was simply explaining what's going on. That three hot days in July in Surrey doesn't mean the world is burning, or that three days of the Beast from the East means that we're to be beset by an ice age. Now who was it who said the the British climate consists of nine months of winter and three months of bad weather?

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 06:51 AM

Ah! You are pardoned! ;-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 07:16 AM

The Tory's are blaming Jeremy Corbyn.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 07:43 AM

Nice to see Boris the Braindead up to his neck in this particular example of Tory do-nothing-until-it's-too-late neglect
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 08:11 AM

Just a reminder that at the time Climate Change has now become a major international probe - - major flooding in Britain and Venice, Bush Fires in Australia, regular devastating hurricanes............... all the climate change chickens coming home to roost at the same time, The Tories have pulled Britain out of the International Climate Change Discussions on the orders to the White House thug now being investigated for impeachment
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Iains
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 10:32 AM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
       Date: 14 Nov 19 - 08:11 AM
major flooding in Britain and Venice, Bush Fires in Australia, regular devastating hurricanes............... all the climate change chickens coming home to roost at the same time

        Steve Shaw - PM
       Date: 14 Nov 19 - 06:36 AM
Over a long period things tend to even out. Conclusions apropos of climate change have to look at large areas over long periods, not whether it's been pissing down in Yorkshire for a couple of weeks.

They cannot both be right. 3 Guesses as to who is making it all up it may be!

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 01:06 PM

Back in the first heavy rains of the summer,
we developed a serious roof leak down the bedroom wall..

Scrabbling in a panic to find emergency money for repairs.
has wiped us out financially until at least next autumn...

At the same time we had to turn down a free roof replacement for my mum's
council house,
because the upheaval would be too much for her...

That didn't help us feel good...

Me and the mrs never wanted to be home owners..

Selling off council houses, and not builing suficent new social housing
is diabolical..

Bloody UK weather... and tories...

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 02:01 PM

Whilst I have absolutely no wish to address you in anyway whatsoever at any time, let me just this once say that both Jim and I are perfectly correct. And if you respond to this let me assure you that you will be talking to yourself. Goodbye.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Iains
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 02:03 PM

Nice to see Boris the Braindead up to his neck in this particular example of Tory do-nothing-until-it's-too-late neglect
More arrant nonsense. This problem has been building for decades.
Flooding, and managing it, cost the UK around £2.2 billion each year: we currently spend around £800 million per annum on flood and coastal defences; and, even with the present flood defences, we experience an average of £1,400 million of damage. :According to the Guardian yesterday: government has ramped up spending on flood defences in England since 2010. Perhaps the commentator above is braindead for sprinting to the keyboard without even a soupçon of fact checking.
The Water Framework Directive 2000/60/EC is an EU directive which commits European Union member states to achieve good qualitative and quantitative status of all water bodies by 2015.
Total river basin management in terms of achieving good ecological status runs counter to anthropogenic pressures. Increased dredging is not always the answer. Land use needs to change. Reclamation of uplands reduces their capacity to absorb rainwater. Urban infrastructure, especially drains is victorian in many places and barely adequate coping with normal loads, let alone abnormally high rainfall events.
The London water main carries an additional 300 million litres per day into London, I wonder if the sewerage system had a commensurate upgrade? As water courses have been regularised infrastructure has been allowed to encroach onto former floodplains, having taken no account of extreme events. Probably areas of farmland will have to be relinquished, especially saltmarsh, in order to offer more protection upstream. Pointing a finger at the government of the day for dereliction of duty shows a basic lack of awareness of the complexity of the problem. I get the impression that only recently have the hard questions been asked as to the way forward. Knee jerk reactions merely accentuate the problem.The watershed needs to be considered in it's entirety in order to devise the most effective solutions. Some properties may simply have to be abandoned.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/300332/04-947-flooding-summary.p

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 02:03 PM

Not you, pfr. You can talk to me any time whether you like it or not. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 02:16 PM

I spend too much time on my own in the house talking to Alexa...

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Iains
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 02:43 PM

Mr shaw your attempted putdowns are pathetic. You have a high degree of conceit if you think I would lower myself to attempt to converse with you. I prefer sensible dialogue.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:11 PM

I hope nobody is going to be stupid enough to respond to this insulting arrogance
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 04:53 PM

The point is, Jim, that neither you nor I said anything to conflict with the other. If some fool mischievously tries to set us in conflict in that situation via a deliberate misreading of what we posted, he needs to be called out good and proper and shown up for the vexatious idiot he is. Now I don't like him and don't care to address him or respond to his crass stupidity, so that's my last word on this particular diversion. It could be a good thread. Let's keep it that way. And it's still pissing down this end. I've felt trapped all day. I did nip out to get what's left of my hair cut and got thoroughly soaked for my trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 04:55 PM

Bloody weather and lefty pefties!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 05:00 PM

I know it's November but today has been beyond the bloody pale. Even Mr Grim of Grimsby in the county of Grimshire has condemned today as grimness personified.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 05:27 PM

It’s been grim ‘ere up north...even my Border Terrier - darling canine beloved of Mr. Shaw - would go out for a pee and a dump until I pushed him out through the back door.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 05:28 PM

Wouldn’t, FFS!

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 05:29 PM

Now, let me see. Suppose the globe is, as an average over the surface, and over a few years, a wee bit warmer. Someone must have done the data collection, and those who haven't please shut up for a bit.

Now suppose that a warmer world, which is covered more by water, is going to evaporate more of the wet stuff. Now suppose that this evaporate can't increase forever. Now tell me, what will it do, as its mass increases (or did I mean weight?). That's the gravity of the situation.

Yes, yes, it is only 0.5 ^oC (or is it 0.6?) more right now, at a time when the earth's precession (or should I say wobble/oval orbit?) would point us into a cooler era. But who is it to say that such a teensy weensy bit of difference is going to reek havoc with this weather wot we are seeing? Mind you - who is to say, on the spectrum of havoc, what we could yet see?

Heads in the sand anyone? I fear there may be much more of that medium in years to come. So some of us should be right at home then.

Animals have always affected their environment, and the naked ape is more affecting and more numerous. And more partial to a silicon dioxided pate.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 05:52 PM

Another 16mm today. Coldest day since Feb 1. Christ I'm miserable.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 05:58 PM

Never understood why people choose to live on a flood plain. Likewise around the base of Vesuvius however you spell it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 06:39 PM

Because, Bonzo, the Bay Of Naples is the centre of the Earth, the beginning and the end of everything. Naples is a scruffy, lively, vibrant, criminal, romantic, beautiful place that makes (nay, invented) the finest pizzas on the planet and it has an amazing archaeological museum. Just up the road you have Pompei, Herculaneum and Stabiae. Watch out for the beggars on the Circumvesuviana railway to Sorrento but marvel at the cheapness of the fare. The world's finest pasta is made nearby in Gragnano. Just over the peninsula is the Amalfi Coast, a crowded heaven on Earth. You can go on a boat, preferably a little 16-seater, to Capri. Do that trip before you die. And you can go to the top of Vesuvio and wander through the Campi Flegrei and walk on the level into a volcano at La Solfatara. And if you go in summer the sun will beam on you but you won't burn to a frazzle. Over two million people live within a few miles of Vesuvio, a thoroughly beautiful and fertile mountain that has probably finished blowing its fuse now. See it from Marina Grande in Sorrento across the misty bay at sunset. The two million all hope I'm right. Some of them live in slums and squalor and don't live there by choice. But go and spend a couple of weeks in the area and be prepared to be swept off your feet. Pliny the Elder loved it so much that he died there in 79. And there's a hell of a good gelateria in Sorrento...

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 06:49 PM

Talking of rain and excess water, shed a tear for La Serenissima, by far the most beautiful city I've ever visited. Venice is struggling and probably is destined to go under. Rising sea levels, storm tides, under-investment, over-tourism, corruption and bloody cruise ships are wrecking the place. It's a slowly unfolding tragedy.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 07:29 PM

I'm sure that your border terrier is a little beaut, John. Insert a cork in its arse and I'll be deliriously happy. I'll volunteer to do it if you like, but I'll insist that you have a pack of anti-bac wipes to hand... :-)

Haven't a bloody clue what a border terrier looks like, by the way, and I shall continue to revel in my iggerance on that score... Can it play the harmonica?

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:51 PM

Are places that are famous for rain, like Manchester and Ireland getting more than us?

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 04:41 AM

On Skye they say that if you can't see the top of Cuillin it's raining. If you can see the top it's going to rain. And if it's not raining in London it's only because the clouds have gone up to Manchester for a refill.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 04:48 AM

I know all about the Amalfi Coast, I still say people living around V are idiots, likewise people in the UK who live on a flood plain!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 04:54 AM

In fact, it doesn't rain that much in England. Manchester gets about 32in per annum and London only 22in. I can't find it now but I read somewhere that it rains for one hour in 17 in London. For four years I cycled daily the 12-mile return trip from Loughton to Walthamstow and it was surprising how infrequently I needed my waterproof. God, I miss Chingford. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Iains
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 04:56 AM

In the case of Venice Scirocco winds blowing from the south east can drive water into the lagoon, much of which is made up of marshes and mud flats. When high tides coincide with strong winds and a low pressure system, the effect can be unpredictable and extreme. On Nov. 12 winds of over 100 km an hour hit the city and lagoon tides peaked at 187 cm, their highest level since the 1966 record of 194 cm. Twentieth-century industry worsened things by pumping out massive amounts of groundwater from the aquifer beneath the lagoon for nearly 50 years before the government stopped the practice in the 1970s. In the last century, Venice has sunk by about nine inches.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 05:10 AM

Yebbut there are millions of people who live round Vesuvius who are poor and who have no choice, that's the thing, and it's where the work is. If the volcano ever threatens there is a massive evacuation plan in place (ye gods, Italy doing an evacuation plan - how confident would that make you feel!) but Vesuvius has been quiescent now since 1944, the longest it's gone for many hundreds of years without erupting. The mountain is monitored by vulcanologists more intensely probably than any other on earth. It may have exhausted itself for the time being. I reckon that the Campi Flegrei supervolcano, a few miles the other side of Napoli, is far more of a threat. Ask the people of Pozzuoli, who are regularly terrified by heaving ground cause by a restless magma chamber. Campi Flegrei is close to Vesuvius but is not part of the same magma regime. Walk up the road from Pozzuoli and stroll into La Solfatara crater. Scary, smoky, stinky. It went off last about a thousand years ago. It's where San Gennaro, the patron saint of Naples, was martyred in the fourth century. He just lost his head, that's all. You can see his bones sticking out of a big urn in the duomo in Naples. There's an excellent pizzeria at the top of the same road.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Rain Dog
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 06:48 AM

I blame the beavers

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Iains
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 07:03 AM

I blame the beavers!
Fine!
The last beavers disappeared from England and Wales by the 12th Century, but populations in Scotland held on until the 16th Century.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Rain Dog
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 07:12 AM

You cannot keep them out

Those cunning beavers

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 09:49 AM

Venice streets full of water, please advise.

Never understood why people choose to live on a flood plain

1) because it usually has alluvial soil, very fertile. (archaic in modern employment).
2) because it probably has access to travel by water (OK notso important since the IC engine).
3) because the developer doesn't care once he has bribed the local gov planners
4) because the estate agent didn't tell you everything he knew
5) because the planners plan on a once in 50 years' event. And not on global warming** - History doesn't tell you everything either!
6) because it is sooooooooooooooooo pretty
7) because they don't like driving up steep roads in the Chelsea Tractor (wot goes 50 miles a day to commute).

**fact. Only the cause should be in any possible soupçon of dispute, not that would stop some of this parish.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: MudGuard
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 03:02 PM

As the original question "UK - Rain 2019: Have we got another five months of this? " has not been answered, I will do it.

The answer is:

obviously not! As it is already mid-November, you will only have another one and a half months of 2019 rain.

Followed by 12 months of 2020 rain,
followed by 12 months of 2021 rain,
followed by ...

After all, the UK has to fulfill the cliché of being a rainy country ...


Andy (from Munich, where it is raining at the moment ...)

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 03:11 PM

Extremely moving statements from young people in the Dail today
HERE
The politicians can learn two things from todays events -
A The Passion and comminment on display over the future of the planet
B Rather than the usual 'doughnutting' which hides the fact that the House is nearly empty, every seat was filled with angry kids
Makes you ashamed sometimes
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 03:21 AM

As the original question "UK - Rain 2019:

on a minor pedanticle

We seem to have had five months worth already - or will have by Dec 25th when it will turn to snow.
or it would, if the law of averages applied (about once in 7 years as the official betting arbitrator has it)
but ya can't bet on history without the risk of loosing: in interesting times

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 07:06 AM

Yes, I'm dreaming of a white Christmas well - just like the ones we used to know.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:11 AM

You are all doing better than Venice.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:28 AM

”You are all doing better than Venice.”

Try telling that to the people of South Yorkshire, a few miles from where I live...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-leeds-50346121

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 12:38 PM

The sad thing is there are no definitive answers.
Apart from te people who would say that anyway - no one is sticking their neck out and saying - this is the effect of global warming, and we must spend billions on infrastructure because its going to happen again - soon.

TV keeps parroting - 'its the worse rain for 50 years' - yeh we noticed - rather wet as well!

the subtext to that seems to be - well as long as its only once every 50 years, bugger off - you're better off than in Venice.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 04:32 PM

YIPES

Here, in DC, we are told to expect 1,400 water main breaks over the next 4 months. Last year they caused such road flooding that helicopters were used for rescues.

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 01:16 PM

The annoying thing is our shower doesn't work anymore,
and we can't aford to fix it yet..

So what's the average rain temperature in the west country at the moment....???

Our back garden is private enough if next door don't look out their bathroom window...

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Mossback
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 02:44 PM

Damn good thing climate change/global warming is a hoax, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: UK - Rain 2019
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 10:00 AM

this is the effect of global warming, and we must spend billions on infrastructure because its going to happen again - soon.

Er - the Thames Barrier sort of was one in a billion attempt. True they didn't stretch to the GW words, just storm surges and the like. But they did reckon it would have a 50 year life, which in Govspeak was the GW words.
And when was it commissioned? Mid 1980s? Those 50 years might have been optimistic.

And where was it protecting? Lundun innit?