BS: Dr. Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ

Subject: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 02:52 PM

WSJ stands for the Wall Street Journal.

Just when you thought you had seen everything.

Here is a column in the
Washington Post
on the subject of Joseph Epstein's condescending column to Jill Biden
in the Wall Street Journal.

Column about Jill Biden is worse than you thought

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 04:24 PM

Was this guy cryogenically frozen in the '50's and recently thawed out.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 05:20 PM

The WSJ caught a lot of flack from people who disliked the opinion of that underachiever who himself apparently never managed to finish his dissertation. #SourGrapes

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 06:42 PM

How exactly is Rupert Murdoch connected to the WSJ?

Because Rupert Murdoch might fit
gillymor's description ...

... is this somebody's fashion of
welcoming Donald Trump back to New York City?

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 07:38 PM

Columnist Joseph Epstein is 83 years of age (New York Times Service):

does that give him license to call
69-year-old Jill Biden (Ed. D.)
"kiddo" ?

because of the age difference?

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 08:05 PM

The link in this post goes to an interview
from 13 years ago:
September 25, 2007,
in the periodical which was FORMERLY known as
The Jewish Forward.

Quote:
"When I edited The American Scholar
[published by the Phi Beta Kappa Society],
I don't believe the name of
any American president then in office
appeared in its pages."

No, this post does not concern Jill Biden, Ed. D.,
but the journalist Joseph Epstein.


Here's the Whole Schmear.
interview: Uncle Joe the Exquisite

"Prickly" is a polite word that one might use for this personality.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: meself
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 08:27 PM

No dog in the fight, haven't read the WSJ article, don't greatly care one way or the other - but the convention as I learned it is that any species of MD uses the corresponding honorific generally, while other types of doctors use the honorific only in academic or related contexts.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 08:53 PM

Which, meself, is exactly the way I learned it. Also, all those at the University (or college) level were assumed to have a doctorate unless you learned otherwise -- and then it wasn't mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 09:50 PM

As someone who worked in academia for 25 years, I can tell you that it is standard practice to refer to professors who have the PhD or equivalent upper level degrees as "Dr. So-and-So." Old guy Epstein was apparently not called a Dr. and is still pissed about it. Big deal, ignore the idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 12:18 AM

Further, Snopes waded in with a good answer.

In a statement released on Dec. 12, Northwestern University condemned the opinions expressed in the Wall Street Journal article.

“While we firmly support academic freedom and freedom of expression, we do not agree with Mr. Epstein’s opinion and believe the designation of doctor is well deserved by anyone who has earned a Ph.D., an Ed.D. or an M.D.,” wrote the university. “Northwestern is firmly committed to equity, diversity and inclusion, and strongly disagrees with Mr. Epstein’s misogynistic views.”

The English department at the university also furthered that Epstein was a former adjunct professor who had not taught within the department in nearly 20 years, adding that his written piece “casts unmerited aspersion on Dr. Jill Biden’s rightful public claiming of her doctoral credentials and expertise.”

“The Department rejects this opinion as well as the diminishment of anyone’s duly-earned degrees in any field, from any university,” wrote the department on its website.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 01:21 AM

Besides which, I don't foresee any difficulty addressing her in print as 'Flotus, Dr. Jill Biden.'

They say she worked on the doctorate while raising children and working full time for 15 (fifteen) years. She earned it.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 01:32 AM

And backward in heels . . . President and Doctor Biden - it has a nice ring to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 05:58 AM

Rupurt Murdoch likes women who speak like Betty Boop and thinks poodle dresses are hot. Speaking of old fashioned, Joe and Jill may even hold hands unlike the previous first couple

Randolf Hearst made yellow journalism, Rupurt made orange..

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 06:18 AM

Saying Dr. is perfectly appropriate in reference and introductions.
Why must religious titles be required constzntly?
Standing on ceremony and convention should be a personal choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 06:45 AM

Grumpy Eleanor of Aquitaine

(Can't figure out how to copy the text, so it's an FB link).

---

It has come to my attention that a certain scribe is asserting that only chirurgiens and physicians are to use the honorific "Doctor" before their names. Coming as I do from the age that created the word "doctor", meaning "teacher," 600 years before the title was appropriated by barber-surgeons, here is my response:
"Hack. Scribbler. Doodler of poorly-executed marginalia. Puellus: A bit of advice on what may seem like a small but, I think, not unimportant matter. Any chance you might drop the ‘Dr.’ before your name? ‘Dr' sounds and feels fraudulent, not to say a touch comic, unless you have studied the Seven Liberal Arts, read Aristotle, debated with fellow masters at the University of Paris, or translated Averroes from the original Arabic. A wise man once said that no one should call himself ‘Dr.’ unless he has established the ontological proof for the existence of God. Think about it, scribe, and forthwith drop the doc.”

Text filled in by mudelf, and mobile link to Facebook repaired so the page text was copyable.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 06:58 AM

The WSJ was certainly crass and gutteral by calling a 69 year old FLOTUS "kiddo".
Afterall no one ever called Melania FWOTUS, first whore of the United States
I think Rupurt is happy to normalize misogeny of Democratic women.
Let's leave titles to the British and ignore them in America.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 07:11 AM

I think the country will be far better served by having an engaged and intelligent First Lady for the first time in 4 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 10:48 AM

It is one thing for a spouse to call their beloved kiddo. It is quite another for the public to use the term.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 11:41 AM

If you got any kind of doctorate, you're a Doctor, that's how I've always understood it. Of course if you're in a theatre or such and someone calls out "Is there a doctor in the house?" it's advisable not to speak up. But outside of that it seems pretty normal in England for people to feel free to use the honorific. Maybe it's different in the States?

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: meself
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 12:35 PM

I'm in Canada - and in my experience, it is quite unusual to hear a non-MD addressed or spoken of as "Doctor ... " outside of an academic or somehow-related context.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 12:41 PM

Dr. Henry Kissinger? But he's a man of course.:^/

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: meself
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 12:48 PM

In Canada, no one talks about "Dr Henry Kissinger" - or "Mr Henry Kissinger" - or "Henry Kissinger" - or "Kissinger" ......

Does anyone under 80 still use the term 'kiddo'?

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 01:21 PM

You don't have to be 110 to know about FDR. For the younger and more inexperienced, books are the old answer. They're better than googling it. I do enjoy the democratic qualities of Wikipedia. It prevents the victorious from being the sole editors of history.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: meself
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 01:54 PM

... uh ... okay - you win .....

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 04:42 PM

Cartoon: Kirk and Spock are looking concerned, kneeling on either side of a prone Red shirt. Kirk: What is the matter with him? Spock: His dick fell offbecause the First Lady has a doctorate.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 06:31 PM

meself, you are a winner. I was just being snide. Don't ever apologize for being Canadian. They are the good example in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 08:43 PM

My brother-in-law has a PhD in accounting, and he's a Professor Emeritus at the University of Wisconsin.. He has a terrific sense of humor, and I'm sure his classes were amazing (and his puns disgusting). He says, "I'm a REAL doctor, not one of those medical quacks."
And he's right. So, yeah, Jill Biden is also a REAL doctor, not one of those medical quacks. Doctor, after all, means teacher or professor.
And by the way, my sister the professor's wife's is Mary Ann.
Is there a Gilligan around somewhere?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 09:58 PM

NBC news w Lester Holt had the matter front and center for maybe 90 seconds tonight and Epstein got the short shrift that he deserved.

Oh, sorry.... "Mister" Epstein.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 08:02 AM

Strictly speaking most medical "doctors" aren't actually doctors, because they don't have any kind of doctorate.

Surgeons of course are traditionally never addressed as "Doctor", at least in England, even if they do have a doctorate.

Whether someone chooses to use an honorific which they are entitled to use or refrains from going so is a completely free choice. For anyone to question that right is grossly impertinent.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 10:15 AM

What I said about doctors not actually being doctors doesn't apply in the USA, where the basic qualifying degree is MD. In the UK (and in various other countries, such as Australia) it's the MBBS.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 02:32 PM

Writer Joseph Epstein also writes for National Review magazine.

A memoir by one Benjamin Taylor on his friendship with
the highly successful and well-known author Philip Roth,
said memoir titled Here We Are: My Friendship with Philip Roth,
gets the Joseph Epstein treatment in late July 2020 (online).
In it, Mr. Epstein, referring to Philip Roth,
quotes Saul Bellow, who spoke to
the New Yorker's David Remnick about Mr. Roth:

"... he feels [that] a writer should provoke --
and he should, if that is the way he is inclined --
but he can't expect to evade the results of this provocation."

The preceding is a timely warning to keberoxu, to be sure,
and
I reckon it applies to Joseph Epstein as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 02:52 PM

You reminded me of a time when members of my universiy Fencing club had a T-shirt made showing a sword slicing through a pen!

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 06:30 PM

In the UK we have a convention that refers to medical graduates as Doctors until the become so experienced in a narrow field they qualify as Specialists &/or Consultants and then the revert to plain old Mr.

It is labelling and a form of snobbery, I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 06:40 PM

Snobbery? For most people it's hard work to earn that Ph.D or Ed.D., or even the lowly M.D., and finishing that degree entitles the graduate to use "Dr."

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 06:47 PM

I thought it was only surgeons, among medical personnel, who weren't addressed as Dr. In the UK. In the US medicos are all Doctor.

UVa doesn't call PhDs doctor, even professionally, but all the other schools I've taught at, do. My doctorate is from UVa. They don't use the word Campus for their campus, either. UVa has grounds, instead.

I only use Dr. professionally. Socially I use Mx. Gender-neutral Mr. or Ms., that is. Back when I still presented with a gender I tended to prefer Dr. as it is gender-neutral, though. Not that I realized that till later!

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 06:48 PM

I think that it is only male surgical consultants who are referred to as Mr. Medical consultants retain the title of Dr. It stems from the time when physicians were formally trained but left the unpleasant work of amputations and the like to lesser mortals.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Professor Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 06:50 PM

Cross posted with Mrrzy.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 11:38 AM

We do share a wavelength sometimes, Doug Chadwick!

So is one of the questions why did the WSJ run the letter at all?

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: meself
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 12:37 PM

The WSJ got exactly what they were hoping for from that article: reaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 08:42 AM

I wondered if this Mr Epstein is related to the late Jeffrey Epstein who has been so much in the news the past few months?

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 10:04 AM

I wonder about who murdered the infamous Jeffery Epstien. Was it a British or US operation or both. a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/30/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-homicide-autopsy-michael-baden.html">https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/30/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-homicide-autopsy-michael-baden.html

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 08:28 PM

Northwestern University, which columnist Joseph Epstein proudly name-dropped in his op-ed about the Ed. D. earned by Jill Biden,
has put two sentences, by way of response, on its
Department of English webpage.

They read:

The Department is aware that a former adjunct lecturer who has not taught here in nearly 20 years
has published an opinion piece that casts unmerited aspersion on Dr. Jill Biden's rightful public claiming of her doctoral credentials and expertise.
The Department rejects this opinion
as well as the diminishment of anyone's duly-earned degrees
in any field, from any university.


... they don't even dignify the 'lecturer' 's name by mentioning it ...

Subject: RE: BS: Dr. Jill Biden Ed.D. and the WSJ
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 01:45 AM

He has finally achieved his 15 minutes of fame.