Where's Fennario?

Subject: Where's Fennario?
From:
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 06:49 PM

I've recently heard for the first time the traditional ballad "Fennario", sung by Anthea Lawrence on the MP3.com celtic site. Is Fennario a true place name? I know it's been used in lyrics, such as the Grateful Dead's "Dire Wolf", in addition to the traditional ballad. I would appreciate any help, also the origin of the traditional song.

Terry

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Sunley
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 07:07 PM

On the album "Joan Baez In Concert Part Two" there is a track called Fennario. Sounds Mexican of southern USA doesn't it ?

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Susan of DT
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 08:44 PM

In other versions, it is Fyvio, presumably Fife in Scotland

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 09:28 PM

G'day all,

This is really out of my core area, but I seem to remember hearing that the Fennario version of Maid of Fife arose from American troops, familiar with the older song, adapting it to their circumstances during one of the American / Mexican stoushes.

Whether there s an actual Fennario, or whether this is a corruption of the actual name of some Mexican town, depends on the accuracy of the avaerage soldier's appreciation of invaded territory. Of course, it could be a part of California or Texas, now renamed by the victors.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 09:30 PM

See the version from 'Pretty Peggy and Other Ballads', 1880, at "Pretty Peggy of Derby, O" on my website in Scarce Songs 1. That's the original of the Fennario version. www.erols.com/olsonw

---

http://www.mudcat.org/olson/viewpage.cfm?theurl=SONGTXT1.html

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: sheila
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 10:11 PM

Susan -

No, not Fife. There actually is a town called Fyvie, in Aberdeenshire. The Kingdom of Fife is south of there.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 10:19 PM

But "Pretty Peggy of Derby, O" was somewhat earlier than "The Bonnie Lass of Fyvie, O".

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 10:30 PM

I should also point out the the American version, probably by Rosinna Emmet, wasn't derived from the Scots version, but from a broadside copy of "Pretty Peggy of Derby, O". She didn't seem to know the old tune, so her version was supplied with a new one. More particularly, the "Fennario' version is only in Sharp and Karpeles' 'English Folk Songs from the Southerrn Appalachians', A version, and the tune there is slightly altered from that in the book of 1880. And the Irish (and Scots) tune "Pretty Peggy of Derby, O" has not been collected with any American version of the song.

The American version can be distinguished by that very lame line 'The Captain fell in love with a lady like a dove', and in another verse wherre Peggy is offered a ride in a buggy, carriage or the like, which is not in British Isles versions.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From:
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 10:37 PM

Of course, Bob Dylan, on his eponymously named first album, sings "Pretty Peggy-O," and in a spoken intro says (approximately). "I've wandered this whole world, but I've never found Fennario."

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: tradsteve
Date: 14 Jan 00 - 01:16 AM

Fenario is presumably in Scotland because "Pretty Peggy-O" is a traditional Scottish ballad. Dylan "Americanized" it extremely. The Dylan intro is: "I've traveled 'round this whole COUNTRY and I've never yet found Fenario". This is because Fenario was or is in Scotland.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Terry
Date: 14 Jan 00 - 12:21 PM

Thanks to all who replied to this thread. So...Dylan already recorded it, under the "Pretty Peggy-O" name. Didn't know that. I reckon his great-Dylan-ness has his stamp on lots of great traditional songs. At least he didn't claim this one as his own...did he?

Terry

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 14 Jan 00 - 01:01 PM

Sorry, that should have been Rosina Emmet above. I have the American edition of the book, 1880, but there was also an English edition the same year. It was a Mrs. Combs of Knott County, Kentucky that came up with the imaginary "Fernario" in 1908.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: kendall
Date: 14 Jan 00 - 04:38 PM

didnt he say the same thing about Pretoria? wasn't too good with geography was he?

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 14 Jan 00 - 05:33 PM

Bob

What's a "stoush" please - if not a typo?

Regards

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 14 Jan 00 - 05:51 PM

PS: I have no idea who changed 'Fernario' to 'Fennario'.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: GUEST,B Dunayski
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 01:51 AM

I live in Fife, Washington (which is somewhere down in the United States). I've been all through Fife and I've never yet found Fenario anywhere around here either. by-

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Mudlark
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 02:02 AM

I learned this song from an early Judy Collins record...and always loved the gusto with which she sang it, compared to the limp J. Baez version...after all the penultimate verse as I heard it was "And when I return, the city I will burn, and ravish all the ladies in the country-o." Though I don't know where Fennario is, from the sound of the song I'm sure it didn't originate in the Americas.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 04:01 AM

A stoush is a blue.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Snuffy
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 09:10 AM

A blue what?

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 09:40 AM

Errr .. G'day Martin Ryan,

A 'stoush' is Australian for a fight, a brawl, a battle (or, as Hrothgar would have it, a 'blue'). (Hmmm ... that ought to be in the Mudcat Australian Glossary, on which I collaborated ... ? ... ! ... ?)

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: GUEST,Moleskin Joe
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 09:46 AM

In Scotland it's a stushie.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 09:47 AM

Stushie - is Scots for an uproar, fight, disagreement, great big fuss..
Also related to rammy..

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 09:48 AM

I think it was a misprint - ask Monica Lewinsky.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 06:16 AM

Bob
Thank you!

Regards

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 11:20 AM

First left after Finaiglin

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 03:38 PM

Whenever you need a word to rhyme with are-o and Mary-o, (the captain fell in love with her after ditching Peggy-o) you going to get a Fenario. Rhymes are a lot of work.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Suffet
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 09:47 PM

More variants:

The captain had a talk with a lady like a hawk...

The captain got a smidgen of a lady like a pigeon...

The captain went a-bobbin' with a lady like a robin...

The captain got a pinch from a lady like a finch...


Any others?

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 03:30 PM

Duck??

Subject: ADD Versions: Pretty Peggy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 11:36 PM

This song was recorded by Dylan and by the Grateful Dead. I've never heard either of thos recordings. I learned it from Simon & Garfunkel's Wednesday Morning 3 AM album, the only traditional recordings they did.

Dylan:

Pretty Peggy-O
Arranged by Bob Dylan
Played by Bob Dylan on Bob Dylan (1962) and occasionally during the Never Ending tour (21 performances in 1992, last performance 1998)
Tabbed by Eyolf Østrem

---

  
  One verse intro (w/harp)
  
  I've been around this whole country 
  But I never yet found Fennario.

           G
  Well, as we marched down, as we marched down
                                D
  Well, as we marched down to Fennerio'
            G                           C
  Well, our captain fell in love with a lady like a dove
      D                            G
  the name that she had was Pretty Peggy-O
  
  Well, what will your mother say, what will your mother say
  What will your mother say, Pretty Peggy-O
  What will your mother say to know you're going away
  You're never, never, never coming back-io ?
  
  Come a-running down your stairs 
  Come a-running down your stairs
  Come a-running down your stairs, Pretty Peggy-O
  Come a-running down your stairs 
  Combing back your yellow hair
  You're the prettiest darned girl I ever seen-io.
  
  The lieutenant he has gone 
  The lieutenant he has gone
  The lieutenant he has gone, Pretty Peggy-O
  The lieutenant he has gone, long gone
  He's a-riding down in Texas with the rodeo.
  
  Well, our captain he is dead, our captain he is dead
  Our captain he is dead, Pretty Peggy-O
  Well, our captain he is dead, died for a maid
  He's buried somewhere in Louisiana-O.
  
  

  Live version (Albany, NY April 18 1998)

  D             G                  D
  As we marched out, to Fennario
     D          Bm          F#m
  As we marched out, to Fennario
            G               D                      G
  Well, our captain fell in love with a lady like a dove
                                   D
  And he called her by name Pretty Peggy-O
  
  Would you marry me, Pretty Peggy-O
  Would you marry me, Pretty Peggy-O
  Would you marry me, your cities I will free,
  Free all the ladies in the are-o.
  
  I would marry you, sweet William-o.
  I would marry you, sweet William-o.
  I would marry you, but your guineas are too few.
  I'm afraid my mama would be so angry-o.
  
  What would your mama think, Pretty Peggy-O
  What would your mama think, Pretty Peggy-O
  what would your mama think if she could hear my guineas clink
  See me marching out ahead of my soldiers-o?
  
  If ever I return, Pretty Peggy-O
  If ever I return, Pretty Peggy-O
  If ever I return, your cities I will burn
  Destroy all the ladies in the area-o
  
  Come tripping down the stairs, Pretty Peggy-O 
  Come tripping down the stairs, Pretty Peggy-O 
  Come tripping down the stairs, come and make your yellow hair
  Bid your last farewell to sweet William-O.
  
  The captain he is dead, Pretty Peggy-O
  The captain he is dead, Pretty Peggy-O
  The captain he is dead, and he died for a maid
  He's buried in Lousiana Country-O
  
  As we marched out, to Fennario
  As we marched out, to Fennario
  the captain fell in love with a lady like a dove
  And he called her by name Pretty Peggy-O

---

Dead:

Peggy-O
Lyrics: Traditional
Music: Traditional

A traditional ballad played regularly by Jerry Garcia with the Grateful Dead from the early '70s.

As we rode out to Fennario
As we rode out to Fennario
Our captain fell in love with a lady like a dove
And he called her by name pretty Peggy-O

Will you marry me, pretty Peggy-O
Will you marry me, pretty Peggy-O
If you will marry me, I will set your cities free
And free all the ladies in the area-O

I would marry you, sweet William-O
I would marry you, sweet William-O
I would marry you, but your guineas are too few
And I feel my mother would be angry-O

What would your mother think, pretty Peggy-O
What would your mother think, pretty Peggy-O
What would your mother think when she hears the guineas clink
And saw me marching at the head of my soldiers-O

If ever I return, pretty Peggy-O
If ever I return, pretty Peggy-O
If ever I return, all your cities I will burn
Destroy all the ladies in the area-O

Come stepping down the stairs, pretty Peggy-O
Come stepping down the stairs, pretty Peggy-O
Come stepping down the stairs, combing back your yellow hair
And bid a last farewell to young Willie-O

Sweet William he is dead, pretty Peggy-O
Sweet William he is dead, pretty Peggy-O
Sweet William he is dead, and he died for a maid
And buried in the Louisiana country-O

Grateful Dead Recordings

        Date   Album 
        25 Sep 1976   Dick's Picks Vol 20 
        3 Sep 1977   Dick's Picks Vol 15 
        10 May 1978   Dick's Picks Vol 25 
        15 May 1980   Go To Nassau 

Roots
The following piece is from Josephine McQuail's excellent piece "Folk Songs and Allusions to Folk Songs in the Repertoire of the Grateful Dead"


"As I researched the song, I discovered it was listed in a venerable volume of collected folklore, English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians, collected by Cecil J. Sharp. The song seems to be Scottish in origin. The version performed by the Grateful Dead resembles that transcribed in Cecil Sharp's book, but there are several variants. As is typical of folksongs, the place name given in the Dead version as "Fennario" is "Fernario" in Sharp's version. As the song is passed down from person to person words become changed or transposed, just as the message in the children's game of telephone gets more and more garbled as it is passed along. Sometimes nonsense syllables are substituted for what once were "real" words.

"An even older, Scottish version of the ballad called "The Bonnie Lass O'Fyvie" appears in Folk-Songs of the North-East and another version is given under the title Bonnie Barbara, O, in Vagabond Songs and Ballads of Scotland. From even the titles of the songs it is apparent that the names "Fennario" and "Fernario" both probably originally derived from "O'Fyvie" and the name "Peggy-O" perhaps from "Barbara, O." All of the versions considered together suggest the story of a love affair between a travelling enemy soldier and a local girl which is thwarted by the girl's ambitious mother who wants a son-in-law with more money and a higher social status. Thus his declarations go from a promise of love for "Barbara, O" to threats against the locals' lives when he returns from his next march. But he dies, heartbroken because of love for, respectively, "Peggy-O" and "Barbara O." "Bonnie Barbara, O" is given the setting of Derby and is in dialect, but the story of the song is a bit clearer. When the soldier asks Barbara what her mother would think of her daughter's marriage to an apparently well-to-do soldier, she replies:

Little would my mammie think, bonnie Sandy, O,
Little would my mammie think, bonnie Sandy O;
Little would my mammie think though she heard the guineas clink.
If her daughter was following a sodger, O."

"A Scottish version which found its way to the Southern United States is given in The Ballad of America. This version lacks the detail of the proud, angry mother. The setting of this version, "The Bonnie Lass o'Fyvie," in other Southern American versions changes from "Fyvie" to local settings or is replaced by nonsense words like "Ivory" or "Ireo."

There was a troop of Irish dragoons
Came marching down through Fyvie O;
The Captain's fallen in love with a bonnie, bonnie lass,
Her name it is called pretty Peggy O.

"O come down the stairs, pretty Peggy O," he said,
"O come down the stairs pretty Peggy, O,
O come down the stairs, comb aside your yellow hair,
Take the last farewell of your daddy, O.

Another version I found of "The Bonnie Lass Of Fyvie" has fuller lyrics:
There once was a troop of Irish dragoons
Come marching down thru Fyvie-O
And the captain fell in love wi' a very bonnie lass
And he called her by name, pretty Peggy-O

There's many a bonnie lass in the glen of Auchterlass
There's many a bonnie lass in Gairioch-O
There's many a bonnie Jean in the streets of Aberdeen
But the flower of them all lives in Fyvie-O

Come trippin' down the stair, Pretty Peggy, my dear
Come down the stairs, Pretty Peggy-O
Come trippin' down the stairs, combin' back your yellow hair
Bid a long farewell to your mammy-O

It's braw, aye it's braw, a captain's lady for to be
And it's braw to be a captain's lady-O
It's braw to ride around and to follow the camp
And to ride when your captain he is ready-O

Oh I'll give you ribbons, love, and I'll give you rings
I'll give you a necklace of amber-O
I'll give you a silken petticoat with flounces to the knee
If you'll convey me doon to your chamber-O

What would your mother think if she heard the guineas clink
And saw the haut-boys marching all before you-O
O little would she think gin she heard the guineas clink
If I followed a soldier laddie-O

I never did intend a soldier's lady for to be
A soldier shall never enjoy me-O
I never did intend to gae tae a foreign land
And I will never marry a soldier-O

I'll drink nae more o your claret wine
I'll drink nae more o your glasses-O
Tomorrow is the day when we maun ride away
So farewell tae your Fyvie lasses-O

The colonel he cried, mount, boys, mount, boys, mount
The captain, he cried, tarry-O
O tarry yet a while, just another day or twa
Til I see if the bonnie lass will marry-O

Twas in the early morning, when we marched awa
And oh but the captain he was sorry-O
The drums they did beat on the merry braes o' Gight
And the band played the bonnie lass of Fyvie-O

Long ere we came to the glen of Auchterlass
We had our captain to carry-O
And long ere we won into the streets of Aberdeen
We had our captain to bury-O

Green grow the birks on bonnie Ethanside
And low lie the lowlands of Fyvie-O
The captain's name was Ned and he died for a maid
He died for the bonny lass of Fyvie-O

---

S&G:

Peggy-O
(Traditional)

As we marched down to Faneri-o, as we marched down to Faneri-o,
our captain fell in love with a lady like a dove and they called her name pretty Peggy-o.

Come a-running down the stairs, pretty Peggy-o,
come a-running down the stairs, pretty Peggy-o,
come a-running down the stairs, combing back your yellow hair,
you're the prettiest little girl I've ever seen-o.

In a carriage you will ride, pretty Peggy-o, in a carriage you will ride, pretty Peggy-o,
in a carriage you will ride, with your true love by your side as fair as any maiden in the are-o.

What will your mother say, pretty Peggy-o? What will your mother say, pretty Peggy-o?
What will your mother say, when she finds you've gone away
to places far and strange, to Faneri-o?

If ever I return, pretty Peggy-o, if ever I return, pretty Peggy-o,
if ever I return, all your cities I will burn,
destroying all the ladies in the are-o, destroying all the ladies in the are-o.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: open mike
Date: 01 May 03 - 02:50 AM

there used to be a folk music related web site called fennario.
http://www.balladtree.com/

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: GUEST,Keith A o Hertford
Date: 01 May 03 - 03:08 AM

Without looking at a map of Fyvie/ Aberdeen area, some of the place names posted above are wrong. Certainly I've always heard 'Long before we came to Old Meldrum town' which does fit since it lies between Fyvie and Aberdeen on the old military road. And the river is the Ythan so it's 'bonny Ythan side'
Tarry yet a while,
Keith.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Melani
Date: 02 May 03 - 01:15 AM

I always thought it was a county in Folkloreland.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: GUEST,Gavin
Date: 02 May 03 - 04:01 PM

Where's Fennario?

God knows? I haven't a clue - but all the places in the version I know fit well in the the history and geography of Aberdeenshire, and the river systems of the Ythan and the Don. The Ythan meets the sea not 10 miles north of Aberdeen, and the Don flows through the city.

The River Ythan flows through - Auchterless; Fyvie; and past Gight (the Castle of Gight beside the Ythan River, east of Fyvie towards Methlick; built around 1560 by members of the Gordon family and plagued throughout its history by murder, hardship, and unexpected deaths) ---- all in Aberdeenshire (now Grampian Region).

Old Meldrum lies to the south of Fyvie - but still drains into the Ythan river system.

The Garioch (pronounced Geeree, and transliterated in various ways) - the area around Inverurie and Bennachie - draining into the River Don (the neighbouring river system south of the Ythan).

And Aberdeen lies at the mouth of the River Don (yes, there are several more around the globe, but that just shows there are two Aberdeen lads - one stays, and one gets the h..l out, the farther away the better! And once gone, the more ferocious the Aberdeen loon becomes.)

The tune I believe refers to the Battle of Fyvie in 1644, where Royalists commanded by the Marquis of Montrose won against considerable odds. The Marquiss of Montrose then made the mistake of being captured and executed not much later! Win the battle and lose the war?   

http://www.scotwars.com/Individuals/ montrose/background_and_overview.htm

All best - Gavin (yes, another expat Aberdonian).

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 May 03 - 06:58 PM

Thanks Gavin, I did not know what the Geeree was. I would not have guessed Garrioch!
It's a favourite song of mine. I intend to walk or cycle from Fyvie throgh Old Meldrum to Aberdeen some time. I think that there is a folk club in Fyvie too.
Keith.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 May 03 - 10:34 PM

Re: "All of the versions considered together suggest the story of a love affair between a travelling enemy soldier and a local girl which is thwarted by the girl's ambitious mother who wants a son-in-law with more money and a higher social status."

Somebody is being naive. The song is about an officer (Captain) who wants to seduce a girl of the lower classes and will probably dump her among the camp followers once he's lost interest. The girl is too smart for him.

Have you heard the line, "In coaches you shall ride, with your true love by your side, just as grand as any lady in the areo?" It shows that she is not a lady, she's a servant or farmer's daughter, something like that.

She's afraid to reject him in a straightforward way, so she calls on her mother's authority.

The captain doesn't really die of love in Louisiana, (pronounced Loo-zee-anna; he dies of one of the many diseases that swept military encampments. When you do the song, allow a musical interlude after the threatening verse so that the singer (the lower-ranked soldier) has time to figure this out. Then sing the first again, tenderly, as is he is remembering the captain and what a rascal he was.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 03 - 11:59 PM

leenia, the story is in the ballads. The original Irish version can be seen on the Bodleian Ballads website. The Scottish and American versions are independent reworkings. Drawings conclusions from combining the two is ridiculous, as is trying to figure out motivations of people who never really existed.

"Fennario" came from the imagination of a single singer long since dead. Trying to figure out how she came up with that can be no more than idle speculation. The opening of the original of the Americn version is given in facsilmile here. Original Pretty
Peggy, 1880

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 May 03 - 10:37 PM

I did not use a combined version. I used the words I've learned.

And as for figuring out the motivations of people who never existed, have you ever heard of intelligence guided by experience?

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 03 - 09:59 PM

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: GUEST,jac/turriff, scotland
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 12:56 PM

fennario is not right, it is actually the bonnie lass o' fyvie'o...fyvie is a small village approximately 30miles north of aberdeen in north east scotland. the song is actually starts ....."there once was a troop o' irish dragoons, came marchin doon through fyvie'o..." it's about the irish dragoon captain falling in love with a local girl called peggy who comes from fyvie. you can get the lyrics on the corrs album.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 01:51 PM

jac/turriff, scotland:

That is the version I used to sing: "the captain fell in love with a lady like a dove, as we marched through the bonnie streets of fyvie'o."

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Celtaddict
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 03:55 PM

I have read from several sources that Fyvie (becoming Fyvie-O) is the older and presumably (judging by the other locations in the older versions) original place, but have heard speculation that "Fennario" or its variants might have been a localization to Fiunary, which would become "Fiunary-O" then simplified a bit. I believe, on the scant evidence of the scansion of "Farewell to Fiunary," that the accent is on the second syllable, "fiYOOnary," which might make this unlikely, but the soldier/sailor traditions did seem to change place names almost as readily as girl names, and to adjust the names to fit the songs (as in, "away, RYEo" and "off to Amerikay"). I don't have a map handy; is not Fiunary fairly far north? Is it a place where soldiers of the era of the song (or the next wave, to alter a familiar song) might be?

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 04:08 PM

It does look rather as if neither "jac" nor "brucie" actually read this old four-year-old thread before posting to it. Bruce Olson's comments earlier on make it clear that the American "fennario" variants derive from Pretty Peggy of Derby, not from the later "Fyvie-o" form. A derivation from Fiunary is certainly ingenious, but really very unlikely.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 02:18 PM

I am surprised that the Fyvie version is not in the DT.
Re version given above and further to my earlier post, I know it as the town rather than glen of Auchterless. This is lowland Scotland so perhaps glen is less likely. Also there is the village of Kirkton Of Auchterless just a couple of miles from Fyvie.
Correcting my earlier, the town is Oldmeldrum, not Old Meldrum.
With flounces to the knee,
Keith.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 03:10 PM

Guest proposes that the original version is the Irish version and is in the Bodleian Ballads collection. Is anyone smart to link us a graphic, or a typescript?

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 03:15 PM

Keith-
It is in the DT, and has been for many years. Interestingly (to me, at least) is the Scottish tune, which seems to have started out as "A Landlady of France" and was used for "The Chesapeake and the Shannon" as well as "The Constitition and the Gurriere" early in the eighteenth century.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 04:40 PM

That "guest" was the late Bruce Olson. His material on the song and its tune can be seen at:

http://users.erols.com/olsonw/SONGTXT1.HTM#PEGDRBY

Examples at Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads (all, as it happens, printed in London) are listed in this link:

Pretty Peggy of Derby

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 06:15 PM

In the Scottish version I know, it's "Howe of Auchterless", not town or glen, which is I believe geographically accurate.
From all the stuff I've done on old fiddle tune books(published and manuscript), I have to say that the earliest versions of the tune I've come across were called "Pretty Peggy of Derby", no references to Fyvie or Fernario till much much later. But equally well, I would have to say that I've done more work on English fiddle notebooks than I have on Scottish. It is notoriously difficult(in fact normally impossible) to track down "original" versions of old songs. All you can do is come up with the earliest known version, and that only lasts as a theory till someone finds an earlier one.
   As is often the case, we have an anonymous GUEST on the thread claiming the original version is Irish. Well, that's as maybe, but he or she omitted to provide any references, so that red herring is best ignored for the moment. I see no reason why it shouldnt be Irish, and no reason why it should.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 03:17 AM

Thank you Malcolm.

Does anyone happen to know...

What is a "hautboy" and how is it pronounced?

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: GUEST,Keith A o Hertford
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 04:39 AM

Thanks Dick. Ijust used the links at top of thread which do not lead to Fyvie.
I sang Chesapeake and Shannon while Kendal was visiting our session. I politely suggested that the Americans may only have lost due to friendly fire.
Keith.

Subject: RE: Where's Fennario?
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 05:15 AM

Hautboy is a transitional form between the original French hautbois and the modern English oboe. The French means "high wood". How they exactly pronounced it in 18th century England I dont know. Ho-boy maybe?? Or o-boy perhaps, the French haut is pronounced o.