BS: another Mudcat (Mudcat Facebook Group)

Subject: BS: another Mudcat
From: breezy
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 07:23 AM

found myself on another mudcat cafe and wasnt pleased so I suggested they change their name . most annoying.

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 07:35 AM

Breezy, it’s the FaceBook page of Mudcat isn’t it? It runs in conjunction with the forum - Joe Offer and Maggie (Stilly River Sage) post on there often.

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 08:54 AM

It is that Facebook one. I'm not on Facebook and never will be, but I accidentally found that the Facebook Mudcat would let me in sufficiently in order to confirm that Mudcat really was down and that it wasn't just me.

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 09:53 AM

There is identifying information on the Facebook page, though the FB people don't always make it easy to find. I found breezy's thread and there has been sufficient clarifying discussion so closed comments (and if you can post there then you joined the group on your own some time ago - since last year when FB changed how groups operate we vet new members to keep out the sunglasses sales and porn sites.)

Thanks for looking out for the 'cat!

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat
From: breezy
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 10:25 AM

Thank you all for explaining the situation , cept the one who is lacking tact . I still think that some 'front of house' clarfication would be of help. Has Joe posted the mudcat zoom there ?

---

Yup, I post the Mudcat Zoom link on Mudcat and on the Mudcat Facebook page every Monday, about 2 hours before the session opens. For security reasons, I don't post it earlier. We got a couple episodes of Full Frontal Nudity, and it was gross....and far too early in the morning to see that here in California....
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat
From: DaveRo
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 10:40 AM

I occasionally look at the FB page when mudcat has been down for a while. It varies how much I can see - this is using a browser on an Android tablet.

Usually I can scroll down a bit - enough to see the 'mudcat is down' thread - before scrolling is blocked and a 'Log in or create an account' box covers the content. Sometimes that happens immediately and all I can see us that weird grainy picture and the top of Maggie's pinned thread. Recently I've been getting a small box which just says 'Not logged in' which I can't get rid of. The experience is very variable. The same is true on other 'public' sites.

Do other non FB people get the same? Maybe it's worse on mobile.

I wonder if people who mark their FB page as 'public' are aware of what it looks like to non FB users?

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 10:40 AM

> Has Joe posted the mudcat zoom there ?

I believe he has been most careful not to, to try to not attract zoombombers. Having said that, I get a treacherous half-memory of him having done so once (much to my surprise) as an emergency measure during the Great Catnap, and then unposting it with extreme prejudice once business closed that week. I do remember discussions of a zoombombing incident in one session I happened to not be present at.

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 11:11 AM

breezy, there are lots of explanations there - it's just what FB allows you to see that can cause the confusion.

The site has remained public because that allows all of the events that people post (the main reason for the page) to be resent using the "share" button. And anyone can see the events posted when it's public. If it was private any shares would be done via copy/paste or by navigating to an originating page outside of the Mudcat page and sharing from there (if those sites are still public).

Near the top of the community page there is the blueish button offering the choice of "New Posts" or "Newest Activity" or "Most relevant" (whatever the hell the FB folks think it is.) Default on the FB "most relevant" choice. So changing to new or newest activity lets you see either new posts or (as when Mudcat is down) the same post that we refresh by posting that Mudcat is up or down.)

Facebook is all about attracting eyeballs and making money, and since it's free, we are the product that it processes every day. If you add "Facebook Purity" (referred to by the term "Fluff Busting Purity" on the FB site) you can adjust some settings on your account, but not on the various groups very much. Facebook blocks any outright mention of Facebook Purity so that's why the obfuscation. https://www.facebook.com/fluffbustingpurity/. You can add a browser extension to most of the main browsers where you might be logged into Facebook, then set up preferences on what you want to see. I have a lot of stuff blocked with it.

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 05:35 PM

DaveRo - I use a Mac & I'm not on facebook either but over the years have often looked at facebook pages, some are bookmarked eg. my folk club's page. How much I could see was limited - if I scrolled down to SEE MORE I couldn't without joining.

My main browser is firefox & my Personal Help Desk has loaded adblockPlus & Noscript but nowadays after some update (firefox or facebook) I can't even see a facebook page. All I get is the URL & a blank screen, so I copy the URL & head for chrome where I can see lots, maybe not everything, & can see if mudcat is down, or the business with pre covid/early lockdown info is still open!

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat
From: DaveRo
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 02:44 AM

Thanks, Sandra.

Today I got a new version of Firefox mobile. It has uBlockOrigin as ad-blocker but nothing equivalent to NoScript. I cleared all cookies for Facebook*, closed it, opened it, and accepted essential cookies. It seems to be behaving better now - I can scroll down quite a way on the Mudcat page without it locking up.

I just get a permanent 'Facebook Login' banner accross the top (which hides the heads of the four blokes, so I see mainly their bellies).

*by tapping the padlock icon next to the URL on this mobile version.

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 04:57 AM

I have the same banner, but so far I haven't had the periodic JOIN UP banner that stops me looking at a page - my answer to that was to close the window & come back the next day!

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Dec 22 - 08:55 AM

I post the Mudcat Singaround link on Facebook and on Mudcat about 3 hours before the singing begins. I delete those posts after the singaround after the singaround is over.
The singaround link changes every week.
If you'd like early notice, email me, [e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat (Mudcat Facebook Group)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Dec 22 - 10:05 AM

Reading this thread confirms my resolution to have as little to do with Facebook as possible. There's a downside to that, because I know there are a lot of ways in which it can be fun and useful, but the stress and paranoia price just seems too high.

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat (Mudcat Facebook Group)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Dec 22 - 05:22 PM

I haven't been back to Mudcat-on-FB since a mod did something patronizing and arrogant to one of my posts, far beyond my limits of tolerance on any forum.

Which is why I suggested Reddit as an alternative backup to the FB one. It has its own share of arseholes and it's more limited in how you can use multimedia and external links, but on the whole it's less of a pain. But it seems hardly any Mudcatters use it?

Mastodon would be another option but that's really tough to get into.

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat (Mudcat Facebook Group)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 22 - 08:09 PM

I will never sign up to Facebook. However, without signing up it's been possible to find out from Facebook what's going on, more or less, when Mudcat is down. I suppose that's something. But once Mudcat is up again, I find no use whatsoever for Facebook.

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat (Mudcat Facebook Group)
From: DaveRo
Date: 17 Dec 22 - 03:12 AM

As Jack says, Facebook is hopeless for non-members. I wouldn't know if it were up or down from that - at least not on this Android tablet. The only fully visible post currently says "We haven't heard from Max for a while..."

I don't use Reddit except in extremis. Every page I view it covers with a banner 'inviting' me to use the app and I have to click 'Continue in Firefox'.

Mastodon wouldn't be suitable. There could be a #mudcat hashtag (there isn't at the moment AFAICS) but whether you'd see it would depend on your own server I think. Somebody want to try it?

Somebody could post 'Mudcat is back up' messages to rec.music.folk Perhaps I try that next time and see if anyone notices.

The latest post on there says:

Do you have any???? Christmas Songs? [As seen in Songwriters Magazine] Christmas Songs Wanted NOW for the 7th Annual Christmas Songwriting Competition kicks off:
https://www.songwritingmagazine.co.uk/competitions/christmas-songwriting-competition-2022

Subject: RE: BS: another Mudcat (Mudcat Facebook Group)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Dec 22 - 10:58 AM

Facebook will always be problematic. Jack probably asked for song information and was told by me (yes, sorry about that) to save it for Mudcat when it was back up. Or to come back in here later and post the answer if he got one in the FB environment.

If we could get rid of Facebook entirely that would be better for Mudcat, but as it is, it serves as a conduit to bring new people over here where the meat of the content lives. The biggest benefit is that as long as that page is public people can post their events and those who wish can share them outward - that helps the performance community.

As far as research, Facebook is a hit-and-run environment where one person gets something they need from the hive mind and then that answer drops off of the page and no one else benefits from it. People could spend all day over there asking and answering questions and no one in the future would benefit from that discourse. So some of us herd cats and try to register the information over here. Blame my years working in archives in a library and understanding how research resources work.