BS: Internet Laziness

Subject: Internet Laziness
From: GUEST,BlueJay
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 02:43 PM

Perhaps this isn't the proper forum, but surely some of you have noticed that e-mail and forums such as Mudcat tend to breed laziness in writing style and construction. I read my own posting under "autoharp tuning" and was appalled at what I myself had written. I know I've sent e-mails with nisspelled words, but figure that they will know what i meant. Is the computer the end of civilized language? What do you think? I know that this isn't directly music oriented, but is "Ding Dong the Which is Dead" OK? I used to better on a piece of paper.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: JenEllen
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 02:52 PM

You are complaining...but still misspelling and failing to capitalize....at least there were no double negatives (I hate that)..

Computer isn't the end of civilized language. It is a tool, plain and simple. You get out of it what you put into it. Just like a chainsaw is a tool, some people are loggers, some are amputees.

Some Mudcat posters are slack and lazy about what they write. Myself included. I have used conversational tone in many of my postings, but that is because it is supposed to convey that a conversation is taking place.

Many of the posters at this forum are quite eloquent in their writings, and pass along a sense of intellect and urgency whenever necessary. Maybe you are reading the wrong threads?

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 02:57 PM

bluejay, like everything else, there are many levels of both attention and competence....I am a lousy typist, but an EXCELLENT proofreader. Trouble is, I get ina hurry (left THAT on on prrpose){also, that one, to show what I mean])and post without double checking..and often ,just as I have pushed the button, I see another error, which it is too late to correct. I am a 'decent to good' speller, but there again....

What I do when posting is try to make my post sound like 'me'....as if I was speaking...complete with pauses, emphasis of various sorts...etc...which means that it it NOT always stylisticly correct, but usually says it with the 'flavor' I want.

Some folk can write a lot better than they do here, but I actually prefer the little differences that convey personality. Others just naturally compose clearly as they type, ot stop and correct before they post. Makes it interesting, huh? *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Troll
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 02:58 PM

I'm a rotten typist so I take shortcuts.and keep postings short.With my typing speed if I tried to get eloquent, I'd lose my train of thought in short order. Maybe others have the same problem.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 03:02 PM

I think Cletus is peerless in his construction.

This is a literary classless forum, and whilst due respect is paid to the more erudite, most folk seem to get their point across in their own style, be it conversational or informative.

I agree with you, JenEllen, that this is merely a tool that replaces the quill, but my own pitfall is stabbing the 'submit' button before I've knocked the edges off my text.

When life was slower, I just had a bucket of correction fluid!

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Little dorritt
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 04:09 PM

when I post to the internet, I feel I am having a conversation, rather than writing a communication, and therefore pay little attention to either my spelling or grammar. Sorry if this offends, but life is too short to eat a dictionary. (That said, I was an adult literacy tutor for many years, so it's not that I can't spell it's more that I can't type!) The only real difficulty if you can call it that, are cultural ones. When I read some threads I don't have a clue what they are about, and I am sure that the same is true when folks look at u.k threads - but it is getting easier as time goes by.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 04:42 PM

Not everyone was blessed with college or University education, yours truly a prime example. This tool may improve reading and writing ability. I sometimes post without proof reading to save valuable time. Consider the following wisdom from one of my textbooks. I never condem someone for poor punctuation or spelling; would be like the kettle calling the pot black.

Whoever thinks a faultless piece to see
Thimks what Ne'er was nor is nor e'er shall be
In every work regard the writers end
Since none can compass more than they intend
And if the means be just the conduct true
Applause in spite of trivial faults is due
Pope Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: GUEST,live from the U Dub, it's emily rain
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 04:56 PM

language evolves. i agree that the ease of electronic communication is probably speeding the process along, but i would never say that our changing standards reflect a decline... just a change.

having just read about a hundred pages of jean-jacques rousseau (who, along with his translator, is very precise in his syntax but also very full of shit), i rejoice to see people writing conversationally about something they truly understand. this is a revolution i support.

guestfully yours, emily

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 05:00 PM

The opportunity is there to make it what you want.
I tend to enjoy the challenge of improving my writing. I have watch my spelling and grammar improve remarkably.
With the postings from others, I keep an open mind and focus on the information they are contributing. In the end, the communication is all that really matters any way.

BB

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 05:19 PM

One problem is that writing formally on a computer I tend to use a spell checker, not to check the spelling, but to catch the mistypings. That probably makes me more careless when actually typing - and then this carries over into posting, where there's no such facility.

I don't really think this matters much, it can even make it friendlier, and you get some lovely mis-spellings at times.

I suppose like any change of medium it affects the way people write - telegrams, charging by the word had an impact on the way people wrote in newspapers, and later in books. Keep it shoert, cut out the fripperies. I'm sure that's one of the sources of Hemingway's prose style, and as a result, of the way thousands of other people have written.

I suspect that the Internet will make us more careless with our words, maybe more generous with them.

I personally hope that emoticons and rows of initials (POGXT and that sort of thing)are a temporary fad that will die out. The suggestion that you have to rely on this kind of thing in order to make up for the fact that other people can't see your body language and facial expressions is a nonsense - letter-writers have managed perfectly well without them for thousands of years.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Little dorritt
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 06:28 PM

The mention of telegrams reminds me of the story of that hollywood star who received an unpunctuated telegram enquirying about his age:
'How old Cary Grant?'
He replied:
'Old Cary Grant fine, how you?'

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Brendy
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 10:04 PM

I think, McGrath you said something there which is quite poignant, to me anyway.
What does POGXT mean anyway? I'm not up on these things. Where I come from LOL means Loyal Orange Lodge!!!
That said, my typing skills are getting gradually better.
I'm getting out of the two fingered approach and it's speeding up ever so slightly. I'll never be a secretary anyway!!
GRTNUF
That doesn't mean anything by the way.
B.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: GUEST,Matt
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 10:07 PM

Embrace the new illiteracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Willie-O
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 10:22 PM

My kind of laziness is reading a whole thread and then not posting...

this happens frequently.

But when I do, I can't stand pushing send until I've corrected any glaring errors I see. In spelling or typos not sentence construction necessarily ;>= It's just the way I'm wired. Other people, such as the one I'm married to and Ben Franklin, have expressed the opinion that their creative spelling is just as good as the dictionary-correct variety.

I don't care how they do it, I care how my copy looks.

because I am...
Willie-O

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: GUEST,CLETUS
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 11:05 PM

Now mister Skipjack Isa thinkin on whut yuh sed an at furzt it seems ta be as how yuh wuzza sayin az how I dint have no pee'er but then Catspaw dun tole me whut it wuz yu wuz sayin an now I feel rite honored. I aint wun ta be a braggin er nuthin but Ise reel lucky like ta have a seccunt grayed edgeekashun an I doan holt wif them what doan uze gud grammer an spellin an punkchewayshun an the like. But then agin I figger thet the moze impurtant thang iz thet yuh no whut sumbuddy izza sayin so I never holt nuthin agin them whut aint as airydite az me.

CLETUS

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 12:36 AM

I tend to agree with Willie-o. I am a pretty good speller by nature, and I usually proofread my stuff to check for typos. Sometimes I edit myself, because I know I tend to be long-winded and wordy. I also enjoy the chance to go back and make sure my post conveys my thoughts as well as I can make it do so.

However, I don't want to hold anyone's spelling or other mistakes against them. Some people have learning disabilities, or just never had a gift for spelling. Some people treat the internet as a more casual way to communicate. Some people don't have time to proofread. As long as I can understand what's being said, I generally don't make note of errors.

I do want to promote understanding, and so want to encourage anyone who isn't sure they understand something, because of different usage in your country or region, etc, to please ask!

Mary McCaffrey

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 02:10 AM

As a 30-year veteran of the written and typed word on paper (word processor, editor, author, desktop publisher, and proofreader), I will admit that even with whole teams checking material (author to editor to proofer and back again) mistakes still sneak through.

But it does bother me to see so many typos and grammatical and spelling errors. It doesn't upset me with the individual making them--it upsets me that we as a society apparently don't place importance on teaching grammar and spelling anymore. Judging from the fact that misuse of the language is virtually everywhere--billboards, advertisements, newspapers--those skills are rapidly becoming a lost art.

I find that both sad and disheartening. I agree that the crux of the matter is communication--but isn't communication enhanced if you actually understand what the other person is trying to say? I've read a lot of posts that are interesting, informative, and a lot of fun, but would have been much more so if I hadn't been distracted from their message by trying to figure out what word the poster meant to use!

Now that I've ranted on for far longer than I should, may I just add: "Cletus, don't you *ever* lose your accent, y'all hear me now?"

Lin

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 03:12 AM

I think we should all speak england like what me and the boys does!

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Ringer
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 05:25 AM

Something that annoys me: inability to use the negative
A recent posting contained "Every man is not guilty of rape..." which is manifestly untrue. What the poster really meant was "Not every man is guilty of rape..." (at least I think that's what (s)he meant.
I always proofread my submissions, never use a spellchecker, but still errors creep through.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Ringer
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 05:27 AM

...as you'll see from the missing bracket above

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 06:07 AM

I try to proofread any lyrics I post but am guilty of careless fumble fingers in quick response posts. My typing before wordprocessing has always been notorious for being almost as illegible as my handwriting!
What really annoys me is proofreading a document umpteen times and then as the 50th copy comes off the photocopier a glaring typo jumps out at me!
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 07:39 AM

Roger, maybe that glaring typo is trying to teach you it does not have to be perfect.
I tend to want all my postings to be gramatically correct with perfect spelling. The funny thing is, after proof reading many times, I usually find at least one error after submitting it. I believe it is Teaching me to lighten up about my errors.
BB

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 08:09 AM

'Caeser entered on his head, his helmet on his feet, his sandals in his hand, his sword in his eye, an angry glare'

Remembered that one from school, learning to put the punctuation in the right place!

Cletus, are you the Governor of Arkansas? You get my vote!

Regards

Skipjack

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: GUEST,Neil Lowe
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 09:04 AM

Before the advent of the computer, I would hazard a guess that, aside from academicians and literary types and word junkies, few people actually took the pains to sit down and compose a thought on paper - in cursive or at the typewriter - to another person. The fine art of letter writing had virtually died in the wake of Ma Bell. Access to forums such as this one has revived an interest in expressing oneself coherently and succinctly, for (as has been mentioned previously regarding emoticons and acronyms)in the absence of facial expression and body language, the singularity of the written word imposed on the backdrop of a blank screen is all the receiver has available from which to form his/her response, and in similar fashion, all that the sender has at his/her disposal from which to deliver the message. If one wants to be understood, communicating within these narrow parameters focuses the sender's attention on style, syntax, spelling, structure, and a host of other grammatical considerations that normally fall by the wayside in casual conversation. In my opinion, that is a good thing. That is not to say that these considerations should be the most dominant elements when conversing with your neighbor about the weather, but maybe typing out messages with some thought as to their content will carry over into the spoken word and curb the prolific, MTV-spawned inclination to say things like, "and then there was this thing...and ummm....you know what I'm saying?" Maybe not.

My shortcoming (one of many)is that I've never been able to effectively adopt a conversational style in my writing. What results when I try to transcribe casual speech patterns into written communication is a disjointed jumbling of thought fragments. Therefore, through my postings I imagine I come across as a rather formal and stilted character, when in fact I'm a common tee shirt and jeans "let's go have a beer" kinda guy. Intriguing how, in the absence of other informational stimuli, some electrons whizzing across the wires, changing ones to zeroes and zeroes to ones, form the basis for our impressions of others.

Regards, Neil

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 09:04 AM

None of us is perfect.. the only problem I have with poor grammar or spelling, is that sometimes it is just not possible to understand what the poster is trying to say. All you have to do is write can, when you mean can't and it changes the whole meaning. I got an e mail from my insurance man the other day, and, it is so sloppily written, I just dont know what he was saying. I have never seen anything that bad in the mudcat postings.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Grab
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 09:12 AM

There's 4 separate issues here:-

1) There's abbreviations. LOL=laughs out loud, etc, or smileys. This is data compression - getting your idea over in as few keystrokes as posible. And common usage weeds out the infrequently used ones, cos if the other person has to ask what it means, it's not compressing it any! So the common ones will stay, and the infrequent ones will die out.

2) There's colloquial/regional/accepted usage, eg. cos or bcos for because. See 1.

3) There's mistyping. Everyone does it, cos we're not all trained touch-typists. The only way round it is to keep an eye on the screen and a finger on the backspace key, and that's just a function of having more practice at typing.

4) There's ppl who can't spell in the first place. And for these guys, they'd be writing the same stuff with a pen and paper as in an email, so there's no difference.

So 1 and 2 are likely to be here for good. 3 is human frailty. And 4 is human incompetence which we should all be ready for. ;-)

Grab.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 09:13 AM

None of us is perfect.. the only problem I have with poor grammar or spelling, is that sometimes it is just not possible to understand what the poster is trying to say. All you have to do is write can, when you mean can't and it changes the whole meaning. I got an e mail from my insurance man the other day, and, it is so sloppily written, I just dont know what he was saying. I have never seen anything that bad in the mudcat postings. here is that note from my insurance man. I asked him if he received the pictures of my guitars which he asked for.

SURE DID AND ARE WE GETTING SOME? ANSWERED NOW AND I'LL GET BACK TO YOU ONE IS IF YOU CAN PLACE A DOLLAR AMOUNT ON THEM

Thats exactly as I got it no punctuation marks, and quite baffling as to what he was trying to say. Am I being picky?

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 09:32 AM

No, Kendall, you are not! I have railed against the modern age, where secretaries are downsized, and captains of industry with the literary skills of chimps are empowered by churning out half baked scribblings that the computer makes look like a proper letter.

So this is what I do. I use a red pen, highlight every mistake, be it spelling, grammar or syntax, and give it '3 out of ten for effort' at the bottom, with a 'must try harder' for good measure, and send it back. It is especially pleasing if the rejected letter contains a pre-paid envelope.

Result, I am perceived as an anachronistic irrelevant jerk, and it gets binned.

But I feel better!

Regards, all

Skipjack

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Penny S.
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 01:03 PM

In the days of frequent letters, didn't people use additional features such dashes - Victorian emoticons! - exclamation marks in odd places, CAPITALS, underlining and so on, to get their point over. Not to mention acronyms like SWALK. Some of what is going on here is not new in nature, just in particular.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: longhair
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 01:56 PM

I usually just type the way I talk. I know it ain't correct, but it flows easier that way. When I was a kid, just about everyone went to this little old lady to study grammar and speech. I'm sure she's probably rollin' over in her grave right now wondering where she went wrong. After all, I'm from Arkansas, and everyone knows we're hicks!!! LOL :^)

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 02:16 PM

"In the days of frequent letters" - the thing is, there never have been days when letters were as frequent as they are now, with email.

The joke is, a few years back people were saying that the written word as a system for ordinary people to communicate was on the way out.

Even with the superb Victorian poastal system, and Sherlock Holmes conversing by back and forth telegrams, they never had anything like this. We are in uncharted waters. There are going to be some brilliant collections of correspondence come out of it.

What do I mean "there are going to be" - they are already here - just try the Forum Search on this site.

And I've proofread this - but I can guarantee that some mistake will slip through, and I'll probably see it just as my finger pushes "submit".

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 02:18 PM

And I was right there wasn't I? Just as the finger pushed I saw it - "poastal"!

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 02:20 PM

I dont think that formal education has much to do with it either. The high school I attended was so sub standard, you could get a letter if you knew what the letter was!

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 02:50 PM

I'm with Little Dorritt on this one. It isn't really 'writing', I think of it more as 'screen talking' and the rules are closer to those of speech than of writing. So I just type what I want to say. If I have the time I'll give it a quick once over for boo-boos.

If someone spells a word wrong here and there, it doesn't really matter. Unless of course it's Peter T , then I expect him to get everything just bloody perfect;-)

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: GUEST,emily rain at U Dub
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 04:01 PM

my new favorite word: airydite.

: )

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 05:55 PM

Ah, Bert, as Bald Eagle pointed out, not mentioning me by name (kindly), I am the person responsible for "Every man...", which is a terrible mistake that I would never have caught without his eagle eye. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

To echo one or two writers here, I think the Internet has turned a whole generation into print oriented readers and writers: the only problem is that if it is in book form, they pay no attention.

But I am afraid I think this is a fleeting form: I don't believe we will be doing this quasi-letter format in 10 years. We will finally be using video phones (when broadband is laid down everywhere, which is already underway), and no one will piddle along in this fashion, except eccentric old fashioned Internet lovers.

We will have gone over to visual/oral for long distance communication.
I am enjoying this form while it lasts. It is a final strange efflorescence of the personal letter, but it is doomed.

yours, Peter T>

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 06:37 PM

And I thought (seriously) that LOL meant Lots Of Love.
But I do think the quality of letter writing has deterioriated with the introduction of the internet.
If I was to write a letter to a friend, for instance, it would usually take me three or four days, with that time spent on formulating the beginning, middle and end.
These kind of places (although there is a greater degree of intelligence here) deal with the quick (for me) letter, and I tend to write here much as I talk as a result. I have, on occasion spent 30 ( couldn't be bothered writing 'thirty') minutes to an hour on replies to threads here, and in the fast lane that is the internet that is a lifetime.
By the time I would have finished my thoughts on the matter in question, the point has lost it's relevancy.
Not so much a case of the bird has flown, rather that the art has died.It speeds up the typing skills though.
B. who deliberately WONT proof-read this as an experiment.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 06:50 PM

Emily, please could you tell us why you don't use any upper case letters? You're evidently well-read, educated etc. I don't intend to sound patronising, please don't read the last sentence as such, I'm just curious. I have noticed this tendency when people write e-mails and a friend said it might be an echo of the days when one could use only upper case characters - no need to bother with the shift key. It does make the postings a little difficult to read!
Jo

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: johnp
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 06:59 PM

Well put Brendy...and only one spelling mistook!

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 07:08 PM

And a half dozen punctuation errors!!!!
Oh by the way, John, I had to do all sorts of nasty things to my hard drives recently, and I lost track of your E-address. Are you in ICQ?
Nadnerb

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: GUEST,BlueJay
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 07:19 PM

What a stir I've caused! My original posting was due to another posting I'd made without proofreading, and 24 hours later there are 38 responses. My first posting had several intentional typos, but a couple others still got through, which illustrates my point. On the whole, I guess I've written more with the computer than without, but I still think we tend to be less cautious than the old manual typewriter which required much effort to correct.

I suppose I should join, I like reading the comments on various subjects. I'm new to the site, and the WEB in general, but I don't have much time. Still, the Mudcat Cafe seems to have a lot of resources that I value. Bye for now.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: GUEST,Caitrin
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 07:22 PM

I post the same way I talk, mostly because this place has always felt more like a conversation than a letter. My grammar and punctuation are usually correct because I have been raised by two M.A.'s in English whom I fondly refer to as "The Grammar Gestapo." Proper grammar is much more habit than conscious proofreading, at least for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Callie
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 07:24 PM

This could almost be a separate thread: the main reason I've noticed I leave errors in my postings is typing-haste. The reason for my haste is that I only have Mudcat access at work and I have to sneak in little reads and writes in between doing what I'm being paid to do (insert guilt here). Anyone else in the same boat? Callie

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 07:55 PM

Can't see the videophone taking over, that's a different medium again. Some people chat away on the phone for hours, with others a 30 second conversation is on the long side. I'm a print person, my wife's a phone person.

Imagine having to run through the threads on Mudcat by listenig to them? (And of course there are computer programs around which would probably allow you to do just that.) It'd take hours just for one thread. You couldn't just skim through the way you can with print, until something comes up in the course of a thread that you want to read and respond to. On top of that, what about the flexibility provided by hyperlinks? And that is something totally new to this the of written communication.

It's the same way that audio-books can never replace books you can flick through - they are great for some purposes, like in a car or when you're feeling like being read a story. But they just hhaven't the flexibility or conveniences for other ways you want to use a book. So we have both. The spoken word is convenient and provides direct contact and that - but the written word, augmented by hyperlinks, that is empowering.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 08:40 PM

Neil "common T shirt & jeans, lets go have a beer kind of guy"? You are deflating my image of you being dressed in a sports blazer, boating shoes and Ralph Lauren cardigan sweater folded neatly over your shoulders.

Brendy, it is very clear to me the time and effort you put into your postings. They are well thought out and I enjoy reading them.

BB

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: bbelle
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 08:51 PM

If I post something that I want to be taken seriously, I make certain my eyes are dotted and my tees are crossed. I check, carefully, for both spelling and grammatical errors. If, however, I am posting for "fun," I am much more lax and tend to post more colloquially than formally. In addition, when I am chatting on icq, I do not use any uppercase letters. my 2-cents worth ... moonchild

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 08:54 PM

Some of me wants to believe in your words, McGrath, but I have recently been witnessing the next generation of video conferencing on closed circuit, where people can essentially produce verbal/video clips, so a thread here might well be such a collection, which you could lay out on your screen, or just click on, and get a voice and a face with TV quality. In addition, you could set up a Mudcat Cafe in 3-D and people could choose a visual persona (or mask) if they didn't want their real face to be seen. When you click on it, it fills the screen and speaks, and then goes back down to the room size. And so on. I can't see people staying with typing when they can conveniently get face and voice. Typed messages could be attached as an alternative, or when you just want to read, but it will be an adjunct. Would I prefer to see someone demonstrate a fingerpicking pattern than write about it, yes. Would I rather see and hear you speak than read your words? I hate to say it, but yes. And I am a print person by trade and inclination.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: BK
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 10:01 PM

Somehow I hope print has more staying power than seems to be expected by some of us catters, yet I see the dire predictions may well be true.. Time will tell. Meanwhile, LOL used to mean "little old lady" to my world, as, for example, WDWNWM meant "well developed, well nourished white male." And there were a zillion others.. Just depends which set(s) of jargon you're used to.

Gotta say: REALLY like Skipjack's great demonstration of the misplaced commas! Like putting the empha`sis on the wrong sylla`ble (easy to say, hard to type on a 'puter keyboard; the idea is to emphasise the SECOND syllable & see how it sounds..)

I sure type less than gracefully & as a practical matter, can't always be worrying abt it. - 'N ya, BTW, I like shortcuts... It ain't elegant, but it's OK in this essentially casual, friendly environment at the 'cat. Wouldn't try to write a formal paper or anything for publication so casually.

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Thomas Covenant
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 10:52 PM

Perhaps someone should start a thread on "Abbreviations Explained" or something, because although I do like guessing games, all this lingo gets the better of me sometimes.
One particular one was given to us by a lecturer in Sociology on afternoon in the Union bar. Try this:
T.I.N.L.A.G.S.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: GUEST,Neil Lowe
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 09:09 AM

BB....see what I mean by my last line in my post?

Actually, I aspire to the image of trailer trash sophisticate. Picture, if you will, a saggy mobile home still on wheels, sitting in a yard in dire need of trimming. Off to the left a huge sattelite dish points skyward. About thirty canines are underneath a rickety wooden porch, ill-fed and lazy, all of mixed heritage but sharing varying degrees of "hound" in their blood. Just outside the front door to the trailer sits a discarded washing machine, one of those old Maytags with the rollers for squeezing the water out of the washed clothes. To the right, sitting on blocks and surrounded by weeds is a rusty, tail-finned Chrysler that's big enough to double as a summer home. Behind the trailer, too, the weeds have grown so tall their flowers can be seen from the front, some of them being readily identifiable as illegal for recreational consumption.

And above the dogs on a broken-down couch next to the washing machine, shotgun at the ready, clad in overalls with one strap undone and no shirt, Jed Clampett hat, little brown jug marked with "XXX"'s sitting on the porch next to my bare feet, sits me, straw sticking out of the toothless grin on my face, reading History of the Peloponnesian War by Thucydides.

Paradise found.

Regards, Neil (with grateful acknowledgement to stereotypes, and a nod to David Allan Coe's "If That Ain't Country")

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 01:35 PM

If you were that close to my place, why didnt you come on in?

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: GUEST,Neil Lowe
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 02:04 PM

The curs looked a little too hungry for my liking, and not all that hospitable....

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 03:50 PM

I think Neil made my point - like they used to say about wireless - the pictures are so much more vivid than they ever are on the TV.

I could be watching all kinds of spectacular stuff happening on the TV right now, with a drink in my hand, if I wanted. So instead I'm sitting up here looking at a screen with words typed on it, and taking my time making my contribution. Noone's going to interrupt me while I'm saying it. It's custom made for boring old farts like me -and with an aging population there's more of us around every year from now on.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Mbo
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 05:16 PM

Hey white gold wielder--does that stand for The International Language Association Group Study? Say hello to Mhoram for me!:{>

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 06:10 PM

Oh my god Neil, if I lived in your trailer, it would be like living with Zsa Zsa Gabor from Green Acres.
"Darling I love you but give me Park Avenue"

BB

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: GUEST,Neil Lowe
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 08:02 PM

Bonnie, lass....just think of it as an up close and personal bird's eye view of Nature's inevitable and relentless assault on civilization: In the end, Nature always wins.

And kendall - I didn't know we were neighbors!!

And a special apology to grammarians and pronoun police everywhere for the dreadfully shameful faux pax in the last paragraph. Woe is I (grammatically correct, I'm told - but it sounds awkward. If "woe is me" was good enough for Shakespeare, it's good enough for me). Perhaps I should've stroked, "And on the porch sit I." Opinion?

Neil "If I could but turn back the hands of time" Lowe

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Brendy
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 08:20 PM

My dear Mbo.
No, but good try. If the truth be known it is:
There Is Nothing Like A Good Shit!!!
That's sociologists for you!!!!
Haven't told you.....I believe these days.
But beware, my brother could show up at any time and at any place!!!!!
Why do I keep getting whisked back to the real world?
Because when I'm here and get involved it sometimes seems as if I never want to leave.
Brendy, on the eternal quest for the One Tree.

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 08:37 PM

Neil said:

"In the end, Nature always wins." Dolly Parton

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 08:38 PM

Neil said:

"In the end, Nature always wins." Dolly Parton

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From: Pelrad
Date: 22 Jan 00 - 12:03 AM

BK, what are you, a coroner or a policeperson? That's the only place I've seen those acronyms.

I write like I talk, but then I've been known as a linguistic priss all my life. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Internet Laziness
From:
Date: 22 Jan 00 - 10:08 AM

My only problem with the lack of spell checking and that is when I encounter too many of them, I will

1 - dismiss the speaker/writer
2 - Assume that the person doesn't care, so why should I,br>3 - If they don't care to take the time to correct what they've written, why should I waste MY valuable time trying to figure it out!

I don't have a university education either, but I do try to write to make sense. One of those things is to ensure that as much of what I post is correct as regards spelling. There will always be typos, but I think the effort is worth it. Also, thinking before you "speak", sometimes will avoid embarassing moments later.