BS: Eating out

Subject: BS: Eating out
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 23 - 08:05 PM

We have had several threads about home cooking with people suggesting their recipes, and I love them and always try to put in my two-and-fourpence. Before the pandemic Mrs Steve and I loved to eat out, but we did it maybe three or four times a year at most as it was never cheap and represented a special treat, birthday bash, sort of thing. Round here, there are simply not enough eateries that we'd want to visit very often. Of course we have coffee shops and places where you can get a really nice light bite at lunchtime for not a lot of money. But I'm talking here about really good "gastronomic experiences", the places you can go of an evening and enjoy nibbles, a starter, a main and a pud, along with stupidly expensive bottles of wine. Like I said, we'd do it just a few times a year. On our holidays in Andalucía we'd go to village tapas bars where you could pay €10 for a bottle of wine which included six tapas. :-). Fantastic, but not what I'm talking about here. In Italy we'd go to pizzerias or to fish restaurants or bistros where you could get superb food and local wine, sit in a lovely atmosphere and pay about €70 for two. In 2015 and again in 2019 we stayed in a hotel in Sicily (which is owned by Jim Kerr!). Every room has a terrace which has a fabulous view of Mount Etna. A five-minute stroll up the road is a restaurant called Al Saraceno, owned and run by a beautiful man called Alfie Puglia. In summer you can sit on the roof terrace with that same fabulous view of smouldering Etna at sunset. The food is typical Italian with a slight emphasis on seafood, though they do superb pizza as well, and you can wash it all down with a litre jug of the local Nero d'Avola red wine, the whole maybe €80, or less if you just want pizza.

So, as these bloody lockdowns have stopped us from going anywhere for several years, we're going again this summer!

We've just got home from two days in Bath. We have connections with that beautiful city in that Mrs Steve lived and worked there as a young woman, and our son was at university there for five years. We go for a couple of days for a break every couple of years or so. Our priority is always gastronomically-biased. This time we stayed right in the centre of the city. On our first night we went to a tapas-themed place called Pinxto. It was genuinely Spanish though quite upmarket (no ten-quid bottles there!), and we had the time of our lives in a brilliant but laid-back atmosphere. Last night we went to an Italian restaurant that we last visited a few days before the first lockdown. It was superb then and was just as superb now. It's called Sotto Sotto and you have to go right down into what feels like a basement from the street, but you then enter a magical cave of a place, all with arched ceilings made of Bath stone. All the staff are Italian or have Italian connections. The food is as sublime as it gets anywhere else on the planet (that I've been to!). Mrs Steve and I did push the boat out a bit, what with a bottle and a half of wine (which was superb), a starter, a main and espresso, all for £120 including tip. Sotto Sotto is the very best restaurant I know. If you ever go to Bath, be aware that you won't get into Sotto Sotto unless you book weeks in advance!

Hey, I'm beginning to sound a bit like Roger the Skiffler here...!

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Apr 23 - 09:16 PM

Steve,

My daughter just returned from attending a conference in Mexico City, and when I went through the photo dump she loaded into a Google folder she shared with me I can see there is a lot of food. Various types of Mexican food, but also Japanese (she's been to Japan several times now, including study abroad). It's an international city.

I had lunch with her today (at a French cafe here in Fort Worth) and I took along an envelope I found tucked in a little secretary here; not sure why I saved it but it was receipts from the summer of 2003 when I took her to New York City the first time; she had just turned 14. We visited lots of museums, did a lot of window shopping and some school shopping, and we ate our way through Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn.

We were on a budget, but in New York City, you can find great food in little hole-in-the-wall restaurants, in various ethnic neighborhoods, and street food. We managed the standard NY Pizza, but also Italian, Greek, Middle Eastern, Chinese, and Japanese. That I remember. Lots of bagels and doughnuts and pastries. We walked or rode the subway most of the time, so burned off the calories. The Chinese place we visited was one that my husband took me to, his favorite place, so when we were settled in I had her give him a call (no, we didn't disturb other diners with our call). It's not a fancy place, it's cafeteria tables and utilitarian plates and utensils, but great food. This is the basement restaurant - tourists usually go up the stairs into the fancy decorated version upstairs that costs a lot more.

We had quite a walk to get to the Middle Eastern restaurant because I didn't have a map of the city streets (pre-Google maps) because we got on the right street but from a different subway station than I usually had used, and just walked until we got there. Through several interesting neighborhoods.

I find it interesting that when she took her now-wife went there the a few years ago they went to at least two of those places - Wo Hop and the Tripoli. And sent me photos of themselves with their meals.

I grew up in the Seattle area and we used to go to various seafood places, one of the biggest chains but very good is Ivars Acres of Clams. The last time I was there with the kids (a few years ago now) I was astonished to see how large the menu was and all of the ways they prepare salmon. When we were seated out on a deck away from the fancy dining room I asked the waiter where was the just plain grilled salmon with a little butter and garlic? Everything on the menu was sauced and seasoned or blackened, etc. He said "we always have some plain grilled salmon available for the purists who want just the fish." :) I got salmon with potatoes and broccoli on the side and was kind of surprised when the kids got the same, but then realized this was how they grew up eating it and enjoyed it best.

Food memories. Good stuff, and can be at affordable prices. (We typically didn't drink when we were out.)

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 23 - 02:35 AM

Dead lucky here. We have a Tapas-y type place, an Italian and a great food pub all within walking distance. Skipton, a 20 minute bus ride away has a large number of different eateries, including one like you describe in Bath, Steve. My favourite there though is Bistro des Amis which is not quite as expensive and does a cuisine described as French/Yorkshire fusion:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Apr 23 - 02:45 AM

Husband and I have taken to going out to the McDonalds. He likes their chicken McSpicy, and I have a small packet of chips and a plain hamburger. We go every Saturday and Sunday. The one near Norwich airport has very friendly staff, including a rather camp gay chap called Ross. He always hugs me tightly and gives me a smacking kiss when we arrive. Then tries a bit of French on my husband and shakes his hand. We adore him.
Then in Wroxham on Sunday we do the same thing, and the elderly chap who cleans tables is always delighted to see us, and a young black chap called Hakim comes out from the kitchen and hugs me.
Our only complaint is that McDonalds don't serve hamburgers until after 11am. Up until then, they only do 'breakfasts'.
I think the attraction for us is the friendliness and the welcome we always get. I do like the hamburger, but I'm more of a 'Mediterranean diet' person.

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 23 - 07:55 AM

There are lots of restaurants around here from large high-end to tiny take-out counters. You don't have to go to four seasons for a fancy experience. Clydes is a nice wooded retreat with reasonable rates and valet parking while you cross a bridge to the restaurant over a koi stream and enter a multi-themed experience from great paintings, equestrian, taxidermy, or banquet hall, all depending upon how you are dressed or what you request. There are cosmic hallways or passages with art alcoves. The food is dependably top-notch. They have evolved and have auctioned off the exotic taxidermy and have gone green. With no reservation, it is always a good choice for someplace 10 minutes away.

The Dubliner across the street from the Capitol Building has the best fish fry in the country. And for fast food around here there are always Peruvian chicken places everywhere. There are entire neighborhoods of restaurants be it old town or dozens of other districts.

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Apr 23 - 08:45 AM

The Dubliner was one of my favorite bars but I don't think I ever ate there. The Four Provinces of Ireland up on Connecticut was also cool. There was a nice little pub across the street from the 4 P's that made a great Irish stew.

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 23 - 09:37 AM

You inspired me, Steve. I'm going roughing it in a tent it at a festival for 3 nights starting tomorrow. The Mrs doesn't do camping any more so she is staying at home and I am taking the daughter in law! Anyway, to make up for frugal meals to be, we went to the Old Bank tapas place for lunch. I had a Greek gyros, Tuscan salad and Czech lager while Mrs G had Greek stew and chips! They call it Yorkshire tapas there as the portions need to be big enough for true born Tykes :-) £45 the lot - Quite a good deal I thought and I can just lie on the sofa until I feel the need to eat again. About 8am tomorrow :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Apr 23 - 06:53 PM

Senoufou, I am such a regular customer at the local MacDonald's
that the workers know what my order will be before I tell them.
I have a weak spot for the Egg McMuffin for breakfast.
I envy you the hugs, though -- that doesn't happen hereabouts.

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Apr 23 - 03:13 AM

Ah keberoxu, the two branches of McDonalds staff know our order off by heart too. During the height of the pandemic, hugs weren't offered, but now we get plenty the minute we arrive! It's rather like visiting ones family.
Same thing in the café in the big Tesco in Sprowston, where we have what's called a 'millionaire's shortbread' and a tea or coffee. The black barista chap (from Gambia) always hugs my husband then gives me a kiss. I think it might be because we're a 'mixed race' couple, a rare sight here, so people remember us and feel warmly towards us.

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Ed.
Date: 28 Apr 23 - 06:22 AM

Given that I've never been to 'Sotto Sotto', and am unlikely to be in the Bath area anytime soon, I must bow to Steve's superior knowledge and recommendation.

However, after casually glancing at their menu, I was amused to read Jay Rayner's latest piece in the Guardian:

Jay Rayner’s guide to choosing a good restaurant

where he comments that:

"If the menu feels the need to tell you that the squid is tender, find somewhere else. No restaurant intentionally serves rubbery squid. So why the hell are you telling me that yours is tender?"

Lo and behold, 'Sotto Sotto' describe thier 'Calamaretti fritti' as being:

"Tender squid with a delicate garlic aioli"

Even better is their tautological:

"All our Italian products are imported from Italy"

Splendid!

I don't, however, doubt that the food is excellent. The use of language just makes me smile...

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Apr 23 - 07:27 AM

Rubbery squid is de rigueur in UK restaurants in my experience. In fact, I can't remember having tender squid. The squid is tender at Al Saraceno in Sicily. I suppose Sotto Sotto just want to reassure British diners that their squid is fine to order, unlike in most other eateries. I didn't try it this time and it's too long ago to remember what it was like last time, or even whether I had it, though the restaurant in my view has never put a foot wrong. I noticed that rather amusing bit about Italian products too. I'd just say that everyone there was either Italian, claiming Italian heritage or at the very least spoke with an Italian accent. In view of their superb food I'll forgive them the occasional quaintness of language!

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Apr 23 - 07:57 AM

I'm a big fan of Jay Rayner, by the way, and of Grace Dent, both of whom write in the Guardian about restaurants in an amusing (generally positive) way. I think there was a fair bit of tongue-in-cheek in his "How to choose..." article!

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Apr 23 - 09:37 AM

I've never set foot inside a McDonalds, though when I was a student in London over half a century ago I staved off night starvation many a time at Gloucester Road Wimpy. Wimpy and chips, five bob. I can use my Tesco vouchers at Pizza Express, and have done a couple of times as it's our seven-year-old grandson's favourite eatery. He's a bit of a dough ball fanatic, very nice with their garlic butter. Unfortunately, Pizza Express have no idea what's required for a proper pizza base. Too thick and too doughy in the middle and not enough char on the edges.

After decades of Bude's being a good food desert we have had, for a few years now, a superb tapas restaurant called the Bank (hey, Dave!). As with Pinxto in Bath, it's more a case of traditional tapas being the inspiration for the dishes rather than having you think that you're eating the real McCoy, but it is a brilliant eatery nonetheless. The pork belly is the most superbly and dangerously, gorgeously fatty thing you'll ever eat. Get a blood test the next day...Looking back at the Sotto Sotto menu, Ed, we had the cicchetti and the portobello mushrooms with goat's cheese starters (we shared) and the lamb ragout with fettuccine (we hardly ever choose the same dish but there was no swerving us this time). The latter in particular was the work of a kitchen genius. Unbeatable!

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Apr 23 - 02:38 PM

It was a depressing discovery the other day when I tried Googling the nutrition information for various local restaurants. The sodium is through the roof unless you order oatmeal or grits. No. I don't like restaurant oatmeal and I didn't grow up eating grits and am not starting now.

There is one local fixings-over-the-top hamburger joint that is hopeful – Five Guys has a standard burger so large you have to dislocate your jaw to fit the double-patty sandwich into your mouth. But they make everything fresh so if you order with mushrooms and caramelized onion and bacon and such they make it on the griddle right then to add to the burger. SO - the prospect of a burger with non-salty toppings (I never get cheese anyway, but no more bacon, alas) is possible, and tell them no additional salt (just pepper) when they cook the meat. They will put the meat and toppings in a lettuce wrap instead of a bun if you ask. I would see about eating the burger with the bun and just being cautious the rest of the day about other extra sodium.

Their burgers are very good, but stay away from the hotdog as far as salt.

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Apr 23 - 04:57 PM

When I make burgers at home, I use pure minced steak of very good quality and add absolutely nothing to the meat patties. No onion, no mustard, no pepper, no salt, no nothing. I treat my productions exactly the same as a steak. The caveat is that it really must be the best minced steak, not just average ground beef. Nirvana!

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Apr 23 - 06:46 PM

Once or twice a month I get to go, with a friend who has a car, to a sing (note above-the-line relevance), put on by a group called Three Sheets to the Wind, at a Mexican restaurant & bar in Gloucester, Massachusetts called Jalapeño's. I always have one of their lavish taco plates. The other folks, as you might guess from their name & the town, have maritime backgrounds, and they are an amenity in themselves: they like each other and enjoy each other's company. They and the waitresses are exceptionally courteous. A splendid way to spend a late afternoon & early evening.

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Apr 23 - 09:41 PM

Mexico has an incredibly long coastline so it is possible to get a lot of seafood in restaurants. One of my favorite Mexican restaurants here in North Texas is a chain of four owned by a local family. It's called "La Playa Maya" (the Mayan Beach) and has wonderful fish and shrimp/prawn dishes. Tex/Mex is something different than what this place serves. I lived at the border in Arizona for a couple of years and it was a 70 mile drive to the Sea of Cortez and with that short distance there was lots of fresh seafood in Sonoyta, Sonora, a border town where I used to shop and dine out.

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Apr 23 - 07:55 AM

Foods I musy have when eating out as I don't cook them:

Fried crispy whole fish

Excellent steak

Mussels

Oher bivalves...

Subject: RE: BS: Eating out
From: Charmion
Date: 29 Apr 23 - 09:44 AM

I made a big mistake during the year after my husband died: I went alone to one of our favourite snazzy restaurants for dinner on my birthday. The food and service were as excellent as ever, but it was a dreadful experience. Since then, I limit my solo expeditions to the greasy spoon where the owners knew and liked Edmund, and brought me heat-and-eat dinners during my first stunned winter as a widow.

It would seem that, for me, restaurant dining is really about the company, not the food.

I get along fine on a diet of fish fillets and veg from the freezer, with ridiculously expensive oranges to keep scurvy at bay and frequent large cups of cocoa to ensure I get enough calcium. But that’s nutrition, not dining.

Having finished her first-year final exams, my great-niece is coming to visit this afternoon. For two weeks, I have been pleasurably musing on which of Stratford's several fine restaurants will appeal to her most. There’s a new place on Waterloo Street …