Origins: James Grant (Child #197)

Subject: Origins: James Grant (Child #197)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jul 23 - 03:43 PM

We've never had a thread on this one, and I think it could use some research.

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JAMES GRANT (DT Lyrics)

'Away with you, away with you, James de Grant!
And, Douglas, ye'll be slain;
Fir Baddindalloch's at your gates,
With many brave Highland men.'

'Ballindalloch has no feud at me,
And I have none at him;
Cast up my gates baith broad and wide,
Let Ballindalloch in.'

'James de Grant has made a vaunt,
And leaped the castle wa;
But, if he comes this way again,
He'll no win sae well awa.

'Take him, take him, brave Gordons,
O take him fine fellows a';
If he wins but a mile to the Highland hills,
He'll defy you Gordons a'.'

Child #197
Roud-3918
from Child from Motherwell
@Scottish @historical
In 1628, John Grant of Ballindalloch killed John Grant of Carron. James Grant
(uncle) did some raiding and escaped both capture and from prison several times.
He was eventually pardoned in 1639.
filename[ JAMEGRAN
SOF
OCT98

Ballad Index Entry:

James Grant [Child 197]

DESCRIPTION: James Grant is besieged; he tells his attackers, the folk of Ballindalloch, that he has no quarrel with them. Despite this, he is forced to the hills
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1878
KEYWORDS: feud fight escape
HISTORICAL REFERENCES:
1628 - John Grant of Carron killed by John Grant of Ballindalloch
1630 - James Grant of Carron, the uncle of John Grant, takes revenge on Ballindalloch and turns outlaw. The authorities authorize Clan Chattan to bring him to justice, and later others, but none could catch him. In 1639 Grant made peace with the king
FOUND IN: Britain(Scotland)
REFERENCES (1 citation):
Child 197, "James Grant" (1 text)
Roud #3918
NOTES [40 words]: This ballad exists only in a fragment -- so brief that it is hard to be certain that it pertains to the events described, let alone which phase of the chase is mentioned. Child's notes say just about all there is to say about the piece. - RBW
File: C197

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There's nothing at https://mainlynorfolk.info/

And I don't see anything in Bronson, so maybe there isn't a known melody.

Subject: RE: Origins: James Grant (Child #197)
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 23 - 04:26 PM

In my collection of thousands of ballads, there are no known recordings of it. I know one place to look, but don't expect to find much of anything.

Subject: RE: Origins: James Grant (Child #197)
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 23 - 04:31 PM

Ah ha! This guy has made an attempt to make a recording of every one.

Raymond Crooke

The Grants of Ballindalloch and the Grants of Carron were feuding for at least ninety years after 1550. In 1628, John Grant of Ballindalloch killed John Grant of Carron, whose uncle, James Grant of Carron, two years later burnt all the barns and other buildings of the Ballindallochs. Their supporters, the Clanchattans, pursued him and captured him after he received eleven arrow-wounds and sent him to Edinburgh, where he was to be executed, but escaped after being held for a year. He remained at large despite large rewards being offered for him alive or dead, until a McGregor gang, brought into the country by the Ballindalochs, attacked him at a small house in Carron where he was visiting his wife. He managed to shoot the captain and escape to the bog with his men.

This ballad, of which only a fragment remains, is based on this event, though Ballindalloch was not personally involved in the attack and there is no record of a Douglas sheltering Grant of Carron. In 1639, James Grant was pardoned by the king and returned home in peace.

Lyrics and chords: G “Away with you, away with you, James de Grant! .......... D7 ...................... G And, Douglas, ye'll be slain; ................................. C For Baddindalloch's at your gates, ........... D7 ............ C ............. G With many brave Highland men.”

“Baddindalloch has no feud at me, And I have none at him; Cast up my gates baith broad and wide, Let Baddindalloch in.”

“James de Grant has made a vaunt, And leaped the castle-wa' But if he comes this way again He'll no win sae well awa'.

“Take him, take him, brave Gordons, O take him, fine fellows a'! If he wins but ae mile to the Highland hills, He'll defy you Gordons a'.”

Subject: RE: Origins: James Grant (Child #197)
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Jul 23 - 04:48 PM

As a commenter notes, Crooke's tune is essentially the American "Handsome Molly."

Or the equally American "The Roving Gambler."

Subject: RE: Origins: James Grant (Child #197)
From: RTim
Date: 05 Jul 23 - 05:15 PM

There is Nothing on Mainly Norfolk...as No One has yet Recorded it!!!

See lists here....https://www.childballadrecordings.com/

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Origins: James Grant (Child #197)
From: Robert B. Waltz
Date: 05 Jul 23 - 06:44 PM

Note that Child's source is Peter Buchan via Motherwell. Thus we cannot be certain that any particular part of it is from tradition. Buchan might have extracted material from something else, rewritten, augmented, or even created from whole cloth. I doubt we will ever find out more about this particular piece.

Subject: RE: Origins: James Grant (Child #197)
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 23 - 07:44 PM

Lighter... Crooke made no claims of creative tune making. Some of his own added tunes are quite tolerable, and some are just repetitive ups & downs... but *shrug*, imagine what a few of the others sound like before oral "folk process" brought them to the attention of wonderful singers.

   Perhaps finding Crooke's will inspire someone to improve them.

It was an amazing challenge he set for himself to sing them all..

Subject: RE: Origins: James Grant (Child #197)
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Jul 23 - 04:35 PM

What Bob sez.