BS: Global warming (Climate Change)

Subject: BS: Global warming
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jul 23 - 05:21 PM

Apparently its been very hot. Hotter than 1976.
Strangely, I don't feel very warm.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jul 23 - 06:04 PM

It's amazing, innit, Al. One crap July for a tiny offshore bunch of islands just to the west of Europe is grist to the mill for the deniers. We haven't had a barbecue for six weeks, though we managed to squeeze in a week in Sicily just before the searing heat and forest fires kicked in. Lucky us! For years we've always had a pop-up gazebo in our garden (Argos's finest) for a few weeks in summer, but it rotted and we've invested in a blow-up Berghaus air shelter instead. It's still in its bloody bag...

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Jul 23 - 06:38 PM

The glaciers in the Hindu Kush of the Himalayas are melting
at a rapid enough rate
to endanger people down-river --
and there are LOTS of people down those rivers.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jul 23 - 06:50 PM

The refugees arriving on our shores in "small boats" are as nothing compared to the mass movement of people that is inevitable in the next fifty years or so as their countries become uninhabitable. The benign lifestyle of so many of us in the west over the last sixty or seventy years is coming to an abrupt end. Unfortunately, our blameless children and grandchildren will be the ones who will reap the whirlwind, while we, the perpetrators of the disaster who have done nothing to avert it, will be resting easy in our graves.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 23 - 08:31 AM

This clear and present danger has been known for a lifetime.
Even the World Bank and IMF have traded the future of Earth for a short-term profit. Such is the priority of the wealthy and the policy and politics they purchase.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jul 23 - 09:47 AM

while we, the perpetrators of the disaster who have done nothing to avert it, will be resting easy in our graves

It started well before us, Steve, and those who invented and manufactured all these things that started the avalache have been in their graves a long time already. Those in power now are, in the main, younger than us and yet they are still not doing enough to avert the crisis.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jul 23 - 10:09 AM

It did, Dave, but it wasn't until the 80s and 90s that I was telling my classes about the greenhouse effect. Before that we were talking more about acid rain and the ozone layer, and in the early 70s some scientists were even talking about an impending mini-ice age. The last couple of generations are the ones who (a) could see the warming coming, (b) allowed the fossil fuel industry to control the conversation, along with a bunch of influential deniers elsewhere, (c) completely failed to stop carbon dioxide emissions to rise inexorably, right up to today.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jul 23 - 10:20 AM

The head of the US announced that the days of Global Warming are gone and now it is Global Boiling. Though "Global Warming" has been considered a misnomer for a while and Climate Change tends to encompass the range of extreme weather we are now experiencing (as far as scientists helping lay people understand that the super cold winter storms are a part of the whole process.)

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jul 23 - 10:44 AM

The Guardian has been calling it the far less cosy "global heating" for some time.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Jul 23 - 01:03 PM

I'm sure all these things are taking place. I just wish it was a bit warmer where I am.
I'm old I feel the cold.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 23 - 07:31 AM

Simple showers this week turned into microbursts with winds up to 80 mph bringing down hundreds of the largest trees. Many streets and highways here are still blocked.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 23 - 08:27 AM

btw it is currently in the cool 60s in DC today so many climate denier lawmakers can go home and lie in life-threatening heat.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 23 - 08:58 AM

Antarctic sea ice hits unprecedented low. The area of missing ice is comparable to the size of Texas. This will continue as warmer water slows a winter refreeze.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Aug 23 - 07:48 AM

Even the Mojave dessert is on fire. In the Southwest, cactus have died from the heat. Possibly complicating the Canadian wildfire is the surface shale oil according to a 93-year-old from that area of Canada that I was speaking to. Our Chenango Forks farm in NYS had oil and methane that would bubble and seep to the surface but is far different from the underground coal fires in PA. It is possible shale oil plays a role in the Canadian fires but I do not know.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: skarpi
Date: 07 Aug 23 - 04:32 AM

No Glopal Warming here, its should summer but its near ice age.
No, its cold.
All the best Skarpi

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Aug 23 - 06:02 AM

Global warming is having a surprising effect in Iceland, the sea level is falling.

CNN

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Aug 23 - 10:04 AM

The correct term is Climate Change - for exactly the reason that Skarpi illustrates. The weather patterns are jerked around from their normal levels, so whether too hot or too cold, it is changing (not just "warming"). Intensifying weather conditions might be the best adjective.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Aug 23 - 10:17 AM

From the CNN article I linked above-

"Höfn sits in the shadow of Iceland’s largest ice cap, Vatnajökull. For centuries, the mighty weight of Vatnajökull has compressed the ground underneath it. But global warming is causing these ice caps and glaciers to melt rapidly, now faster than at any point in the last 200 years. As they disappear, the ground is literally rising."

Global warming is the aspect of climate change that is melting the ice up there.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Aug 23 - 10:22 AM

Incidentally, I didn't link that article to take umbrage with anything Skarpi posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Aug 23 - 11:02 AM

Understood. And it takes time to figure out how far out to look and what all aspects of weather and geology/geography are impacted. And this year is one with an El Niño to add to the mix.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Aug 23 - 11:38 AM

"The correct term is Climate Change - for exactly the reason that Skarpi illustrates. The weather patterns are jerked around from their normal levels, so whether too hot or too cold, it is changing (not just "warming"). Intensifying weather conditions might be the best adjective."

The problem with all this is it fails to address the undeniable fact that the heating of the atmosphere and oceans is global. Focusing on weather patterns in different regions being jerked around, sometimes hotter, sometimes colder, is, unfortunately, grist to the mill of deniers. "Intensifying" may be an aspect but, alone, it does not address rapid and unprecedented temperature rises. Global warming/heating is the most honest way of characterising what's happening.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 07:42 AM

Iceland isn't the only place to be rising due to the loss of ice. Vague memory suggests that much of the West of England is *still* rising measurably, at least partly from pressure relief after the end of the last Ice Age .... it's one of those small-but-weird factoids that tend to lodge in the brain like meat between the teeth.

Apologies for lack of polish for this. Dinner has been declared.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Stanron
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 08:39 AM

"the West of England is *still* rising measurably, at least partly from pressure relief after the end of the last Ice Age."

Scotland certainly is still rising. Norway has risen tens of meters and may still be rising. The South of England is slowly sinking. Maybe one day London will be a lake.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 03:58 PM

From the Guardian.

July was world’s hottest month on record, climate scientists confirm

July has been confirmed as the hottest month on record globally after several heatwaves in parts of Europe, according to the Copernicus Climate Change Service (C3S).

The global average temperature was 16.95C last month, surpassing the previous record set in 2019 by a substantial 0.33C...

...July is estimated to have been about 1.5C warmer than the average for 1850-1900, according to C3S, and 0.72C warmer than the 1991-2020 average.


We can all look at our own patch, but globally is the only honest way to be looking at this.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 04:56 PM

I'm remembering a very old Sci Fi story by an almost forgotten writer. And earthquake removed a portion of the narrow part of South America apart and the Pacific and Atlantic were now naturally connected (yay, no more Panama Canal tolls!) But this eliminated a vital Atlantic current which brought warm water and weather to Northern Europe, which began to go into a modern ice age. An incipient war of immigration was developing between the U.S. and its once European friends such as Gt. Britian, France and Germany.

It was solved by using a big bomb to restore the land portion and get that damn current moving again!

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 06:14 PM

That damn current is apparently under threat. Global warming and the consequent changes in ocean dynamics might wipe out the Gulf Stream altogether, possibly as early as 2025. This is not my opinion, just something I read about last week.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 08:00 AM

The mystery of the Pacific cold tongue is COOLING the ocean for 3 decades. It seems we do not know the cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 11:19 AM

There are several science fiction stories I've read over the years I wish I'd torn out of the magazines they were in. The authors were prescient regarding developments we're seeing now (and were entertaining in the process.) Playboy magazine had a number of them. Despite the reputation for soft core smut, they published really great short fiction and interviews.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 12:19 PM

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25934500-100-something-strange-is-happening-in-the-pacific-and-we-must-find-out-why/

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 23 - 06:33 AM

36 are killed by wild fires on MAUI.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 23 - 03:37 AM

Officially 99 fire deaths on Maui as of today.

I've never been to Hawaii; I've never seen the appeal of tropics or sub-tropics- however, it is very difficult for me to visualise that green island as the absolute horror that Maui people are undergoing right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 23 - 09:09 PM

Global warming events/temps are off the scale. Add 20 billion dollars of damage (my estimate) to CA and SWest this weekend.
Yeah I was criticized for predicting this quickening.

Since 1989 we burned more fossil fuel than in all of history.
But the big boys made money.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Aug 23 - 10:55 PM

A lesser story that contributes to information about this year's heat involves the January 2022 eruption of the volcano by Tonga in the South Pacific. The Tonga Volcano Shook the World. It May Also Affect the Climate.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 03:26 AM

Insurance companies exiting Florida should be telling residents that the bet on the safety of their homes is now not worth it.
Hiked premiums, they think, is inflation.

But do they make the connection?

It is always someone else's fault, which doesn't stop the hurricanes!

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 07:03 AM

its true without fossil fuel our current civilization would collapse and its true we are suffering the whirlwind consequences.
When both sides are right and both sides are wrong as to how to proceed, the fundamental change required will be greater than any world war with untold suffering.

After the resulting population collapse, there will be questions and investigations but the damage is done. With 90% fewer people, our species will begin anew. Perhaps there are better options.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 08:57 AM

One has to admire your certainties.

It's true that volcanoes (and wildfires) can mitigate the heating trend to an extent. By about one-fifth, I think I read somewhere. Aside from the fact that that isn't anywhere near enough, the effects will be temporary and sporadic, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 09:11 AM

Oops. The piece I read (I've just found it, in the Guardian, Volcanoes and wildfires offset 20% of global heating over eight years) seems to be saying something different to your NYT piece, Maggie. Who knows.

Subject: RE: BS: Global warming (Climate Change)
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 09:40 AM

There is a societal erosion of trust in science, government, old knowledge, and new knowledge. The sea of nature will devour solid rock at the interface of land and sea. Nature will endure while our opinions will turn to sand.