Origins: Sioux Indians

Subject: Origins: Sioux Indians
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 03:54 PM

First published in a full version in the first edition of Lomax's "Cowboy Songs" in 1910, "Sioux Indians" was popularized for folkies partly by a Cartwright Bros. 78, re-released about 1965.

A rather different text was published by Robert W. Gordon in 1927 with some quite interesting information:


“The best version I have yet seen of one of the favorite old plains songs came in not long ago from Oregon. Mr. W. S. Charles, who sent it in, tells in his letter something about the text and where he obtained it:

“ ‘I have heard snatches of this old song by old timers for years, but never was able to get it in total, in any form, until I met Mother Dorcas Lorana Hambleton, an old pioneer of Auburn mining days in Eastern Oregon. Her maiden name was Elliott. Her father was wagon master of a ’48 wagon train which crossed the plains during Oregon Trail days. His name, I think, was William Elliott.

“ ‘Mother Hambleton is not sure of her own age. But she does remember, as a young girl, the hardships of that trip. This was the train from which the Sioux Indians took a young man and skinned him alive for the wanton killing of an inoffensive Sioux squaw.

“ ‘From Mother Hambleton’s information the song was composed in 1861 or 1862. A member of their wagon train wrote it after their arrival at Pocahontas, Baker County, Oregon, a small pioneer settlement, now deserted.’”

                      SONG OF THE IMMIGRANT TRAIL

I will sing you a song, e’en though a sad tale,
Of hardships we met on the immigrant trail;
When parting from kindred, our friends and our home,
We westward o’er valleys and mountains did roam.

They told us of Indians who harassed the plains,
The killing of drivers and burning of trains,
Of people they’d slaughtered with arrows and bow,
Of cruelties practiced when striking the blow.

We crossed the Missouri and joined a large train,
Which crawled slowly onward o’er boundless wide plain;
While rambling and travelling we ofttimes would go
To hunt antelope or the wild buffalo.

By short daily marches we reached the North Platte,
Made camp by its waters, a green shady flat;
There circled our wagons ‘mid trees on a mound
And herded our horses and oxen around.

In the midst of our labor we heard a low wail,
The war-cry of Indians who followed our trail.
Men sprang to their rifles in flash of an eye, -
Exclaimed our bold leader, "We'll fight till we die!"

We drove in our cattle, made ready to fight.
As painted red devils dashed plainly in sight.
They charged on our wagons with fierce whoop and yell—
At crack of our rifles six red warriors fell!

We killed their bold leader at head of his band;
He died like a warrior, his bow in his hand.
A moment they halted when he fell to ground;
Then screeching with hatred they circled us round.

With trusty long rifles we gave them cold lead
Till many Sioux warriors lay on the ground dead.
They whooped and they hollered, then fled in dismay
With their chieftain’s body when we won the day.

We had other combats; three brave men were slain
Defending their loved ones while crossing the plain.
We laid them at rest in a green shady dell —
Fond mem’ries there guard them — they fought true and well!

We traveled by day, guarded camp during night,
Till Oregon’s mountains looked high in their might.
Now at Pocahontas beside a clear stream
Our journey is ended in Land of our Dream."   [sic]

Pocahontas, Ore., was founded in 1862-63.

Subject: RE: Origins: Sioux Indians
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 04:57 PM

The Lomaxes published a version in 1938 that was nearly identical to that of 1910 except for one additional stanza. They also included a tune for the first time.

The entire 1938 version is credited to "J. W. Light, Waco, Texas (a student in [sic] Baylor University."

Subject: RE: Origins: Sioux Indians
From: Robert B. Waltz
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 06:19 PM

Note that a date of 1862 would correspond to the Dakota War of 1862, in which the U. S. government cheated the Dakota of Minnesota of their promised benefits, the Dakota fought (led mostly by Little Crow), and the American forces under Henry Sibley defeated the Dakota and forced them west or (in several dozen cases) hung them. If the party that went west followed the Platte (as in the song) rather than the Missouri, they wouldn't have come anywhere near Dakotas who were involved by the conflict, but the other Dakota would likely have been aware of it, and if in fact the party stayed with the Missouri River, they might have encountered hostile Dakota parties.

Subject: RE: Origins: Sioux Indians
From: Robert B. Waltz
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 06:53 PM

Addendum to my post above: There is an inconsistency in the account. If the party followed the Platte, they might have been attacked by Indians, but not true Dakota ("Sioux"); Dakota territory did not reach the Platte. So either they followed the Missouri or they were attacked by some other tribe (perhaps one speaking a related language, who might be called "Sioux" by sloppy observers, but not Dakota).

Subject: RE: Origins: Sioux Indians
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 02:50 PM

Bob, since the Lomax and Gordon texts all mention arrival at an established Pocahontas (originally "Pine City"), the song is unlikely to have been written before 1863 - and it could easily have been written later. (Pocahontas, says Wikipedia, set up a post office on Aug. 4, 1863.)

Either way, I wouldn't rely too heavily on the identity of the Indians. "Sioux" prominently lived out west, were (or had been) at war with the United States, and the name usefully has only one syllable.

Identifying a murderer reputedly skinned by the Indians in the 1860s would shed considerable light on the story.

If it really happened.

Subject: RE: Origins: Sioux Indians
From: Robert B. Waltz
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 03:21 PM

Lighter wrote: Bob, since the Lomax and Gordon texts all mention arrival at an established Pocahontas (originally "Pine City"), the song is unlikely to have been written before 1863 - and it could easily have been written later. (Pocahontas, says Wikipedia, set up a post office on Aug. 4, 1863.)

A very strong argument. :-) But I didn't know. Thanks for the additional information.

Either way, I wouldn't rely too heavily on the identity of the Indians. "Sioux" prominently lived out west, were (or had been) at war with the United States, and the name usefully has only one syllable.

Agreed. But it's worth point out that, no matter what the song says, it probably wasn't actual Dakota. If it happened, it's probably some other nation's fault.

Subject: Origins: Sioux Indians
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 03:54 PM

First published in a full version in the first edition of Lomax's "Cowboy Songs" in 1910, "Sioux Indians" was popularized for folkies partly by a Cartwright Bros. 78, re-released about 1965.

A rather different text was published by Robert W. Gordon in 1927 with some quite interesting information:


“The best version I have yet seen of one of the favorite old plains songs came in not long ago from Oregon. Mr. W. S. Charles, who sent it in, tells in his letter something about the text and where he obtained it:

“ ‘I have heard snatches of this old song by old timers for years, but never was able to get it in total, in any form, until I met Mother Dorcas Lorana Hambleton, an old pioneer of Auburn mining days in Eastern Oregon. Her maiden name was Elliott. Her father was wagon master of a ’48 wagon train which crossed the plains during Oregon Trail days. His name, I think, was William Elliott.

“ ‘Mother Hambleton is not sure of her own age. But she does remember, as a young girl, the hardships of that trip. This was the train from which the Sioux Indians took a young man and skinned him alive for the wanton killing of an inoffensive Sioux squaw.

“ ‘From Mother Hambleton’s information the song was composed in 1861 or 1862. A member of their wagon train wrote it after their arrival at Pocahontas, Baker County, Oregon, a small pioneer settlement, now deserted.’”

                      SONG OF THE IMMIGRANT TRAIL

I will sing you a song, e’en though a sad tale,
Of hardships we met on the immigrant trail;
When parting from kindred, our friends and our home,
We westward o’er valleys and mountains did roam.

They told us of Indians who harassed the plains,
The killing of drivers and burning of trains,
Of people they’d slaughtered with arrows and bow,
Of cruelties practiced when striking the blow.

We crossed the Missouri and joined a large train,
Which crawled slowly onward o’er boundless wide plain;
While rambling and travelling we ofttimes would go
To hunt antelope or the wild buffalo.

By short daily marches we reached the North Platte,
Made camp by its waters, a green shady flat;
There circled our wagons ‘mid trees on a mound
And herded our horses and oxen around.

In the midst of our labor we heard a low wail,
The war-cry of Indians who followed our trail.
Men sprang to their rifles in flash of an eye, -
Exclaimed our bold leader, "We'll fight till we die!"

We drove in our cattle, made ready to fight.
As painted red devils dashed plainly in sight.
They charged on our wagons with fierce whoop and yell—
At crack of our rifles six red warriors fell!

We killed their bold leader at head of his band;
He died like a warrior, his bow in his hand.
A moment they halted when he fell to ground;
Then screeching with hatred they circled us round.

With trusty long rifles we gave them cold lead
Till many Sioux warriors lay on the ground dead.
They whooped and they hollered, then fled in dismay
With their chieftain’s body when we won the day.

We had other combats; three brave men were slain
Defending their loved ones while crossing the plain.
We laid them at rest in a green shady dell —
Fond mem’ries there guard them — they fought true and well!

We traveled by day, guarded camp during night,
Till Oregon’s mountains looked high in their might.
Now at Pocahontas beside a clear stream
Our journey is ended in Land of our Dream."   [sic]

Pocahontas, Ore., was founded in 1862-63.

Subject: RE: Origins: Sioux Indians
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 04:57 PM

The Lomaxes published a version in 1938 that was nearly identical to that of 1910 except for one additional stanza. They also included a tune for the first time.

The entire 1938 version is credited to "J. W. Light, Waco, Texas (a student in [sic] Baylor University."

Subject: RE: Origins: Sioux Indians
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 02:50 PM

Bob, since the Lomax and Gordon texts all mention arrival at an established Pocahontas (originally "Pine City"), the song is unlikely to have been written before 1863 - and it could easily have been written later. (Pocahontas, says Wikipedia, set up a post office on Aug. 4, 1863.)

Either way, I wouldn't rely too heavily on the identity of the Indians. "Sioux" prominently lived out west, were (or had been) at war with the United States, and the name usefully has only one syllable.

Identifying a murderer reputedly skinned by the Indians in the 1860s would shed considerable light on the story.

If it really happened.

Subject: RE: Origins: Sioux Indians
From: Robert B. Waltz
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 06:19 PM

Note that a date of 1862 would correspond to the Dakota War of 1862, in which the U. S. government cheated the Dakota of Minnesota of their promised benefits, the Dakota fought (led mostly by Little Crow), and the American forces under Henry Sibley defeated the Dakota and forced them west or (in several dozen cases) hung them. If the party that went west followed the Platte (as in the song) rather than the Missouri, they wouldn't have come anywhere near Dakotas who were involved by the conflict, but the other Dakota would likely have been aware of it, and if in fact the party stayed with the Missouri River, they might have encountered hostile Dakota parties.

Subject: RE: Origins: Sioux Indians
From: Robert B. Waltz
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 06:53 PM

Addendum to my post above: There is an inconsistency in the account. If the party followed the Platte, they might have been attacked by Indians, but not true Dakota ("Sioux"); Dakota territory did not reach the Platte. So either they followed the Missouri or they were attacked by some other tribe (perhaps one speaking a related language, who might be called "Sioux" by sloppy observers, but not Dakota).

Subject: RE: Origins: Sioux Indians
From: Robert B. Waltz
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 03:21 PM

Lighter wrote: Bob, since the Lomax and Gordon texts all mention arrival at an established Pocahontas (originally "Pine City"), the song is unlikely to have been written before 1863 - and it could easily have been written later. (Pocahontas, says Wikipedia, set up a post office on Aug. 4, 1863.)

A very strong argument. :-) But I didn't know. Thanks for the additional information.

Either way, I wouldn't rely too heavily on the identity of the Indians. "Sioux" prominently lived out west, were (or had been) at war with the United States, and the name usefully has only one syllable.

Agreed. But it's worth point out that, no matter what the song says, it probably wasn't actual Dakota. If it happened, it's probably some other nation's fault.