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BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security
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Subject: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Mr Red Date: 05 Sep 23 - 03:56 PM 1) how to drain those new supadupa WiFi security cameras. The crims just set a WiFi transmitter polling the device, which has to "acknowledge". Given enough time it drains the battery. 2) stealing from cars the crims just blast the area which swamps the reception when idiots walk away zapping the fob behind their back. Crims return in the dead of night and take whatever is worth it. 3) lock the user out of on-line credit card access. Time for my new credit card! Probably over zealous security, but the phone calls cost more than any cashback I ever earned. Time to test the "cash" society. What are my chances? |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Dave the Gnome Date: 06 Sep 23 - 04:38 AM Whodathoughtit surely? |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: BobL Date: 07 Sep 23 - 02:45 AM Always felt that radio keyfobs weren't as secure as good old-fashioned IR. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 07 Sep 23 - 05:50 AM I once read an article somewhere (I *think* it's in RISKS Digest, but I can't find it atm) about a chap who discovered how few "differs" there were in the signals transmitted by radio keyfobs. He then knocked up a radio transmitter which sprayed out every possible combination in turn, and demonstrated it in the car park of a nearby supermarket .... The narrator said he could hear cars happily and repeatedly unlocking and relocking themselves all over the car park. I remember it largely because the narrator used the expression "brute-forcing the keyspace", which tickled my inner nerd. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Sep 23 - 10:43 AM There are universal devices (or used to be - I haven't heard about them in ages) for activating garage doors to open. Cars drive down the street slowly running this device through a range of codes to see if any open. It's not just access to vehicles and any gear or tools stored in the garage, but many garages are attached to the house and that inner door is usually a light interior door. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Jon Freeman Date: 07 Sep 23 - 01:04 PM There's a lot of 433Mhz replicators on the UK market. A lot of HA stuff here uses that frequency although zwave for one uses 868.42Mhz. The us uses different frequencies. I bought a 433Mhz one when I wanted to replicate a door bell push button. You had to be close to the device you were copying with that one so I guess that most of these replicators would be incapable of picking up signals from across the road. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Thompson Date: 09 Sep 23 - 04:14 AM How'd you mean "blast the area", Mr Red? |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Sep 23 - 10:31 AM "...but I can't find it atm..." Why are you talking to a cash machine? |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 09 Sep 23 - 06:48 PM > Why are you talking to a cash machine? Cos the rotters closed all the real banking counters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Thompson Date: 11 Sep 23 - 06:00 AM Indeed they did; and a story from the days when banks had local managers who could approve a house loan, and clerks who know their business: four or five years after moving house I ran into a bit of financial tightening-up, and went into the bank to talk to them about setting up a budget account that would receive an automatic transfer every month, and from which all my direct debits would be fed. This is my What the Eye Doesn't See the Heart Doesn't Grieve Over financial management method: if your normal bank account contains only €100, that's what you consider you have, even though you actually know another €100 has automatically gone into a different account to pay the direct debits. By the same token, when I used to have to get to work on time, I set all the clocks in the house 15 minutes fast; the emotions being a simple soul, this meant I shot out of the house in good time. (Warning: it has to be *all* the clocks.) Anyway, I was setting all this up with the helpful bank clerk, and he said "That's odd, you're paying two separate direct debits to the elctricity board." "That can't be," I said. He asked me was I renting out a property, perhaps, and when I picked myself up off the floor and dried my tears of laughter, I asked him to tell me more of these two direct debits. One, he said, was for my current address, the other for - and he listed the place I'd moved from. I told him that this second one had been cancelled when I moved, along with all the other direct debits relating to the former home, and something must have gone wrong, and I asked him to re-cancel it. When I was going, he told me I'd better call the electricity board too, which I did when I got home. I had a bit of trouble convincing them, but they said they'd investigate and look into it. They rang back in a couple of days and said grimly that the person now living there had been getting free electricity for all these years, for which I'd been paying, and he was now in big, big trouble, and they'd repay me all the money I'd paid over the years. I wonder how many people are now unknowingly paying double direct debits, not realising that the direct debit that triggers every month is actually two bi-monthly direct debits. I'd still be paying were it not for that helpful bank clerk, whose name I bless. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 11 Sep 23 - 08:01 AM a blast from the past when people worked in local organisations & helped local people. Recent news articles here are about banks closing branches in suburbs, small regional towns, regional cities & isolated areas cos NO ONE uses cash anymore - really? Then there are other articles about the number of hours people hang on the phone waiting for a human to help - huh! |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Mr Red Date: 12 Sep 23 - 04:10 PM How'd you mean "blast the area", Mr Red? Basically a high powered transmitter. Given that key fob only has a lithium button cell the signal strength of the fob is milliwatts so a few watts from a carrier frequency TX would overload the receiver in the car and only has to transmit for about 20 seconds while the car owner walks away. Coming home or shopping, the car owner's mind is already at the target, and expecting a fob press to just do its job, and may not listen for the beep. The examples I have seen on CCTV were at night and on-street parking but if the crims think there are goodies in the car they just return when the owners are probably asleep. FWIW my new(ish) car is the first time fob/key thingy, and in unfamiliar locations I check the door handles. It's not the cost of any losses, it is being stranded and all the hassle that ensues that motivates my actions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Stanron Date: 12 Sep 23 - 06:10 PM My car has remote central locking. I didn't know this when I bought it. It didn't come with a fob. I only found out after finding it unlocked outside supermarkets even though I could remember leaving it locked it on arrival. It didn't happen every time, maybe two times in three visits. It also happens occasionally on my driveway. As I don't have a remote fob I'd be quite happy to turn it off but I've no idea how this could be done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Sep 23 - 08:14 PM As long as I have the key in my pocket, I can open my car boot only, unlock the whole car, lock or double-lock the whole car, start the car and switch off. No buttons to press, just touching a front door handle in a certain way to unlock and lock, no ignition key in a slot. I know I've locked the car because the wing mirrors fold in. If I accidentally unlock the car as I walk away from it by fumbling around in my pocket for the key or something, the car re-locks itself very quickly unless I've opened a door. I can use the key to do all the locking and unlocking if I want, but I can't be arsed. My car is a three-year-old Focus Titanium. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 13 Sep 23 - 09:45 AM Herself's car keyfobs started going flat, and the car rightly complained in time. I managed to replace the lithium cells* in each keyfob easily enough. Only at that point did I RTFM, and found the door keyholes cunningly hidden under pry-off covers in case of emergency. * Side peeve: If there's only one, it's a cell; if there's a stack of them sold as a unit, they jointly are a battery. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Jon Freeman Date: 07 Sep 23 - 01:04 PM There's a lot of 433Mhz replicators on the UK market. A lot of HA stuff here uses that frequency although zwave for one uses 868.42Mhz. The us uses different frequencies. I bought a 433Mhz one when I wanted to replicate a door bell push button. You had to be close to the device you were copying with that one so I guess that most of these replicators would be incapable of picking up signals from across the road. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Dave the Gnome Date: 06 Sep 23 - 04:38 AM Whodathoughtit surely? |
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Subject: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Mr Red Date: 05 Sep 23 - 03:56 PM 1) how to drain those new supadupa WiFi security cameras. The crims just set a WiFi transmitter polling the device, which has to "acknowledge". Given enough time it drains the battery. 2) stealing from cars the crims just blast the area which swamps the reception when idiots walk away zapping the fob behind their back. Crims return in the dead of night and take whatever is worth it. 3) lock the user out of on-line credit card access. Time for my new credit card! Probably over zealous security, but the phone calls cost more than any cashback I ever earned. Time to test the "cash" society. What are my chances? |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Mr Red Date: 12 Sep 23 - 04:10 PM How'd you mean "blast the area", Mr Red? Basically a high powered transmitter. Given that key fob only has a lithium button cell the signal strength of the fob is milliwatts so a few watts from a carrier frequency TX would overload the receiver in the car and only has to transmit for about 20 seconds while the car owner walks away. Coming home or shopping, the car owner's mind is already at the target, and expecting a fob press to just do its job, and may not listen for the beep. The examples I have seen on CCTV were at night and on-street parking but if the crims think there are goodies in the car they just return when the owners are probably asleep. FWIW my new(ish) car is the first time fob/key thingy, and in unfamiliar locations I check the door handles. It's not the cost of any losses, it is being stranded and all the hassle that ensues that motivates my actions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Sep 23 - 10:43 AM There are universal devices (or used to be - I haven't heard about them in ages) for activating garage doors to open. Cars drive down the street slowly running this device through a range of codes to see if any open. It's not just access to vehicles and any gear or tools stored in the garage, but many garages are attached to the house and that inner door is usually a light interior door. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 11 Sep 23 - 08:01 AM a blast from the past when people worked in local organisations & helped local people. Recent news articles here are about banks closing branches in suburbs, small regional towns, regional cities & isolated areas cos NO ONE uses cash anymore - really? Then there are other articles about the number of hours people hang on the phone waiting for a human to help - huh! |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Thompson Date: 09 Sep 23 - 04:14 AM How'd you mean "blast the area", Mr Red? |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Thompson Date: 11 Sep 23 - 06:00 AM Indeed they did; and a story from the days when banks had local managers who could approve a house loan, and clerks who know their business: four or five years after moving house I ran into a bit of financial tightening-up, and went into the bank to talk to them about setting up a budget account that would receive an automatic transfer every month, and from which all my direct debits would be fed. This is my What the Eye Doesn't See the Heart Doesn't Grieve Over financial management method: if your normal bank account contains only €100, that's what you consider you have, even though you actually know another €100 has automatically gone into a different account to pay the direct debits. By the same token, when I used to have to get to work on time, I set all the clocks in the house 15 minutes fast; the emotions being a simple soul, this meant I shot out of the house in good time. (Warning: it has to be *all* the clocks.) Anyway, I was setting all this up with the helpful bank clerk, and he said "That's odd, you're paying two separate direct debits to the elctricity board." "That can't be," I said. He asked me was I renting out a property, perhaps, and when I picked myself up off the floor and dried my tears of laughter, I asked him to tell me more of these two direct debits. One, he said, was for my current address, the other for - and he listed the place I'd moved from. I told him that this second one had been cancelled when I moved, along with all the other direct debits relating to the former home, and something must have gone wrong, and I asked him to re-cancel it. When I was going, he told me I'd better call the electricity board too, which I did when I got home. I had a bit of trouble convincing them, but they said they'd investigate and look into it. They rang back in a couple of days and said grimly that the person now living there had been getting free electricity for all these years, for which I'd been paying, and he was now in big, big trouble, and they'd repay me all the money I'd paid over the years. I wonder how many people are now unknowingly paying double direct debits, not realising that the direct debit that triggers every month is actually two bi-monthly direct debits. I'd still be paying were it not for that helpful bank clerk, whose name I bless. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Sep 23 - 10:31 AM "...but I can't find it atm..." Why are you talking to a cash machine? |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Sep 23 - 08:14 PM As long as I have the key in my pocket, I can open my car boot only, unlock the whole car, lock or double-lock the whole car, start the car and switch off. No buttons to press, just touching a front door handle in a certain way to unlock and lock, no ignition key in a slot. I know I've locked the car because the wing mirrors fold in. If I accidentally unlock the car as I walk away from it by fumbling around in my pocket for the key or something, the car re-locks itself very quickly unless I've opened a door. I can use the key to do all the locking and unlocking if I want, but I can't be arsed. My car is a three-year-old Focus Titanium. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: Stanron Date: 12 Sep 23 - 06:10 PM My car has remote central locking. I didn't know this when I bought it. It didn't come with a fob. I only found out after finding it unlocked outside supermarkets even though I could remember leaving it locked it on arrival. It didn't happen every time, maybe two times in three visits. It also happens occasionally on my driveway. As I don't have a remote fob I'd be quite happy to turn it off but I've no idea how this could be done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: BobL Date: 07 Sep 23 - 02:45 AM Always felt that radio keyfobs weren't as secure as good old-fashioned IR. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 07 Sep 23 - 05:50 AM I once read an article somewhere (I *think* it's in RISKS Digest, but I can't find it atm) about a chap who discovered how few "differs" there were in the signals transmitted by radio keyfobs. He then knocked up a radio transmitter which sprayed out every possible combination in turn, and demonstrated it in the car park of a nearby supermarket .... The narrator said he could hear cars happily and repeatedly unlocking and relocking themselves all over the car park. I remember it largely because the narrator used the expression "brute-forcing the keyspace", which tickled my inner nerd. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 09 Sep 23 - 06:48 PM > Why are you talking to a cash machine? Cos the rotters closed all the real banking counters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: well woul'dathoughtit - security From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 13 Sep 23 - 09:45 AM Herself's car keyfobs started going flat, and the car rightly complained in time. I managed to replace the lithium cells* in each keyfob easily enough. Only at that point did I RTFM, and found the door keyholes cunningly hidden under pry-off covers in case of emergency. * Side peeve: If there's only one, it's a cell; if there's a stack of them sold as a unit, they jointly are a battery. |
