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Age= importance of opinion.
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Subject: Age= importance of opinion. From: GUEST,Botticelli's Niece Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:03 PM If a person was not old enough to experience an event (or the early part of a persons career) they can not have a valid "opinion" of it. True or False |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Liz the Squeak Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:07 PM Bollocks. I have an opinion about the USA Civil war, and it wasn't even my country, let alone my timescale. My opinions could be a damned sight more valid than those who were actually present at the battles. If the present day folk have no opinion about the past, then the past will keep repeating itself with no hope of redemption or resolution. If we did not have an opinion on the death camps of Hilter's Reich, they could very easily be reinstated for Kosovo, Chechnya and the man down the road whose dog crapped on my path last week. LTS |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: katlaughing Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:10 PM Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it does do well to afford respect to someone who may have *been there* and experienced whatever firsthand. Nothing like an eyewitness. |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: The youngest BOB fan Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:14 PM FALSE, but I've already stated my opinion on this matter. :) I think that age has no relevance in whether the opinion is "valid" or not. |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: BlueJay Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:16 PM Absolutely false. How about a date? We could go look at ancient footprints. If I can't have an opinion of the Roman Empire, maybe we could ask the footprints. |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Escamillo Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:21 PM If "valid opinion" means an opinion worth to be considered, the statement is absolutely false, because all opinions are worth to be considered, even from very young people. However if you mean "valid opinion"= the one that has more probabilities to be close to truth, then special consideration of those opinions from elder people or from who have been direct witnesses is advisable, though never absolute. Andrés (whose opinions will be considered when he grows up)
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Sorcha Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:21 PM False--but I agree with kat too. However, if you have 1 witness to something, you have one opinion, if you have 200 witnesses, you have 200 opinions. How many colors can the get away car be? Answer--how many witnesses do you have? Validity of an opinion is based on knowledge + experience, not just experience. Ask Praise--was she there on the First Easter? of course not. Does she have a valid opinion? YOU BETCHA! |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: katlaughing Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:24 PM I didn't say it was True. I said everyone is entitled to have an opinion on whatever. Well put Andres and Sorcha. |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Amos Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:31 PM A good opinion is based on some understanding of context and that includes some sense of where things have been, how they got here, and stuff of that kind. Anyone with a working mind is able to form a good opinion, by learning or otherwise acquiring the relevant knowledge -- some people can do it by psychic permeation, but in my experience the accuracy can be unrobust...The only problem is that anyone with a mind of any sort can drum up an opinion, good or otherwise, and differentiating between the good, the bad, and the ugly can get very ti e consuming. That's why people sometimes give up and throw themselves into the hands of experts. But on the face of it, TYBF has as good a chance at having a well informed opinion of Newport 1965 FOlk, where Dylan played Mr Tambourine man, as I do, even though I was there and she was not, because she has the baility to gather data from lots of viewpoints about it, and I am stuck with one perspective from below and to the left of the stage. Hope that cheers you up, TYBF! |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Jon Freeman Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:40 PM In general, FALSE - Sometimes, even, those not old enough to have "been there" offer a more rational viewpoint. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Mbo Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:52 PM I don't know if this is thread creep or not, but...I was born in the tail end of the 70's ('78) but I love the music of that decade...and it's weird, but it awakens feelings in me when I hear it, like I was actually there, like I'm remembering something I can't remember (if that makes sense). I also find that I know and care more about this nuances of it more than those who actually lived through it. But I'm young...so does what I say here mean more to anyone? --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: The youngest BOB fan Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:57 PM Dear Amos- it does cheer me up! Thank you :) I cannot believe it when people feel that they can disregard someone's opinion based on age or any other thing that cannot be helped... |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Sorcha Date: 06 Mar 00 - 10:04 PM Mbo, I know exactly what you mean, I feel that way about a lot of things, (deja vu all over again?) Anyway, chronological age has nothing to do with validity. Anyone's opinion has validity, but you don't ask a 2 year old about tax law..........knowledge + experience does help the validation process. BTW, Mbo, we have a cat whose name is Amos Moses, but we call him M(o)b(r)o...MoBro,or M'Bro one more little thing........... |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Mbo Date: 06 Mar 00 - 10:24 PM Wow, Amos and M'Bro? Cool! Now all he needs is a "troll" somewhere in there and he'd be the official Song Challenge! Kitty! Hmm...might as well put Brady-puss in there too! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Caitrin Date: 06 Mar 00 - 10:26 PM I would say "false." As Liz said, I wasn't there for the American Civil War, but I can sure as heck have an opinion on it, and so can anyone else. Opinions are always valid...being opinions, they can't be proven or disproven. Obviously some opinions will seem more reasonable to other people than others will, but you're free to think whatever you want. |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: annamill Date: 06 Mar 00 - 10:39 PM I feel that the difference may be emotion. Someone who has not experienced the event and can be more objective about it may have a more valid opinion. It could also be second guessing. Someone who has actually experienced the event will be more involved emotionally and their opinion will be slanted by this fact. On the other hand, facts involved may be incorrect and this is all the person who has not had the experience has to form an opinion. An instance is, the 60's. I have heard so many incorrect renditions (cannot think of one right now) of that time. It was a totally emotional experience and how do you convey that to someone who has not experienced it. All they have are reported facts. Just my opinion ;-) Love, annap |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Troll Date: 06 Mar 00 - 10:59 PM To get back to the question at hand, absolutely not. The mere fact that someone has survived for a period of time longer than another person may have does not mean that their opinions have more validity. This, however, seems to be a prevalent attitude especially among the older generation-of whom I am a member. A well-reasoned opinion from a young person is more valid, in my estimation, than a poorly thought out one from one in advanced geezerhood. This is not to discount the wisdom that age and experience can bring. However because one is aged, it does not follow that one is wise. I have heard some incredably stupid opinions put forth by my elders (few tho they be). To discount someones opinion because of their age is just plain dumb. But then, thats just my opinion. troll |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: wysiwyg Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:07 PM The reality is that whatever one's age or experience, one will tend to have an opinion. The nifty thing is when people share thinking instead of hurling opinions. It takes at least two for that. When it occurs, what seems to matter is the process and the contact, the insights gained to inform one's current and future opinions (not the right answer or definitive opinion). Personally I am usually much more intersted in having the next word, in a discussion like that, not the last word. Unfortunately, such an atmosphere of open discourse is not always operating. When an opinion is ventured, even if wrapped in "let's discourse", it may elicit simply more opinions. A recent thread looked at whether we care what people think. I am more interested in the fact that most of us here care enough for each other's thinking to make it possible to keep sharing our own, knowing that at least some of the time it will elicit a response with more thinking and an invitation to continue thinking together. I also really like the threads where people atually read the responses as they come in instead of knee-jerking their answer to the question that starts the thread. Having 85 people tell me what they think about what I raise is not as interesting to me as being part of 86 people noodling through a complex subject with understanding of each other's contributions. I also really love it when I am dead wrong, and people tell me that. I act like I don't like it, but I count on it to keep me learning when I have been simplistic, ignorant, and then stubborn about my view. Usually it happens lovingly if not gently. But where would gray hair come from if not for our friends' freely swung two by fours? See also honesty thread. |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: GUEST,Frankie Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:12 PM Some men have a thousand journeys and some men have one journey a thousand times. |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: GUEST,Dan Keding Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:21 PM I agree that the validity of one's opinion should never be weighed by their age. I am assuming that the person who posted this originally meant youth. We should also remember that we live in a society that does not always honor its elders, so its also valid that old age should not devaluate someone's opinion. Also, knowledge and experience should always count for something and this again is not always the realm of the elder. I know squat about modern musical trends so I would go to someone that would and they probably would be younger than myself. When it comes to life decisions, I might weigh the wisdom of an elder over that of a younger person but I would never discount their opinion. Dan |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Sorcha Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:24 PM Oh, Frankie, but isn't that true? and annap, does not emotion often override/obscure objectivity? That is what I meant when I commented about witnesses. And, when any of us stop growing and learning, we are dead, in more ways than one. |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Mbo Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:32 PM Onward and Upward! That's the only way to go! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Troll Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:37 PM Upward ever! Downward never! Sideways always! troll |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Mbo Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:52 PM It's not much I'm asking, if you want the truth Here's to the future, hear the cry of youth "I want it all! I want it all! I want it all! And I want it now!" --Mbo Og |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Hardiman the Fiddler Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:53 PM Did I have to be in the Holocost to have an opinion about it? Of course not? Or in Korea or Vietnam for that matter? I don't think so. Usually I've found when the opinion giver's advice is summed up by the phrase, "Been there, done that," there is a great lesson to be learned---not necessarily from their experiences, but volumes can be learned about that person's cynicism and negativity. THAT can indeed be useful. Hey, be as opinionated as hell....99% of the people on the planet already are! But also don't forget to have an inquiring mind, and reserve the right to change it from time to time. Some things I felt strongly about at age 19, I really don't give the "derriere of el rato" today. cheers, from Hardiman |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Sorcha Date: 07 Mar 00 - 12:21 AM Sideways, always, Love, Sorcha Tir |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Mbo Date: 07 Mar 00 - 12:31 AM Check this out! My full name is Matthew Edward Richards. Is that weird or WHAT! It's gonna be my fake band name! YES!! Ard Ri!!! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Ana Date: 07 Mar 00 - 12:39 AM New Zealand Maori believe that you always stand facing the past; the future comes flying over your shoulder. Ana
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Sorcha Date: 07 Mar 00 - 12:54 AM Mbo--are you in competitin with THE Ard Ri--Brian Boru,the true one and only? You are in for some heavy competition, here boy. I am MaRy LeighGfeebn the M-riggn! Hope I did this right! And yes, it has been very busy tonite, had tribbles posting and sending personals! |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Escamillo Date: 07 Mar 00 - 02:53 AM There are some thoughts from Isaac Asimov the great Science and Science Fiction author, which are worth quoting. His colleague Arthur Clarke once declared his "Clarke's Law" that says (approx.) that "When an innovative idea coming from young unexperienced people is strongly denied by established old wise scientists, there are good probabilities that the old guys are wrong". Isaac Asimov replies with his "Asimov's corolary" : "Yes, but when that idea is strongly backed by masses of ignorant people, there is better probability that the old guys are right, after all." This could be a good example of what knowledge + experience means. Un abrazo - Andrés |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Escamillo Date: 07 Mar 00 - 02:59 AM There are some thoughts from Isaac Asimov the great Science and Science Fiction author, which are worth quoting. His colleague Arthur Clarke once declared his "Clarke's Law" that says (approx.) that "When an innovative idea coming from young unexperienced people is strongly denied by established old wise scientists, there are good probabilities that the old guys are wrong". Isaac Asimov replies with his "Asimov's corolary" : "Yes, but when that idea is strongly backed by masses of ignorant people, there is better probability that the old guys are right, after all." This could be a good example of what knowledge + experience means. Un abrazo - Andrés |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Clinton Hammond2 Date: 07 Mar 00 - 03:02 AM You opinion is only valid to you... and that's just the way it should be... To everyone else, it's just an opinion... regardless of yer age, sex, ethnic background, food preferances, ect, ect, ect, ect... Opinion: 1 An unproven belief or judgement; a view held as probable 2 what one thinks on a particular point... From an Oxford Dictionary... Note the absence of validity, except in the personal {~` |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Liz the Squeak Date: 07 Mar 00 - 03:36 AM Mbo - you are a mere child, for heaven's sake, I could be your MOTHER!!! (albeit a schoolgirl pregnancy.....) And as for eyewitness accounts - just go and ask Bill Clinton what he saw, and then play that tape of what he told Congress..... Contemporary "eyewitnesses" are not always truthful. The sainted Thomas More wrote a history of England that emphatically assured the populace that Richard III murdered the princes in the tower, a falacy that is still published today. He wrote it "as one who was there in those times" - yeah - when he was aged 4...... LTS |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Lady McMoo Date: 07 Mar 00 - 05:04 AM "There's no fool like an old fool" mcmoo |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Mbo Date: 07 Mar 00 - 08:24 AM Well, Sorcha, I was poking around on the Hill of Tara one day, and out of the blue the stone starts screaming at me! It was the weirdest thing? Almost gave me a heart attack! Liz--a mere child? I guess you could say that because I SURE as heck don't feel like a adult! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: catspaw49 Date: 07 Mar 00 - 08:33 AM My opinions are well thought out and completely without error and cannot be considered to be anything but THE authoratative facts. Yours suck. Piss off. "EGOTIST: A person of low taste who thinks more of himself than of ME.".........Ambrose Bierce, another wacky Ohio boy. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Mbo Date: 07 Mar 00 - 08:42 AM Another line from the Devil's Dictionary? Thanks for NOT warping my post, Spaw! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: kendall Date: 07 Mar 00 - 08:44 AM Everyone has a right to my opinion..opinions are like ass****s- everyone has one. Seriously I have no problem with another persons opinion, unless they state it as fact. Then I get troublesome. |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: catspaw49 Date: 07 Mar 00 - 09:21 AM Is that a fact Kendall? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: GeorgeH Date: 07 Mar 00 - 10:43 AM Well said, Spaw . . One think that pisses me off is those who assert "everything is opinion, nothing is fact". That way excuses, say, denial of the holocaust. And while emotions inevitably make it harder to assess matters of fact, they don't prevent you from doing so. G. |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Amos Date: 07 Mar 00 - 11:05 AM All I can say is when a human doesn't know the differences between facts and opinions he is heading for deep doodoo. Well, seeing how many are there, maybe it's less well understood than one might think...They teach you in MBA classes to get numbers on anything you want to manage well, and I guess this is a time honored technique for separating facts from opinions, by counting something. It worked great until the advent of sociologists. |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: catspaw49 Date: 07 Mar 00 - 11:18 AM Like voting huh Amos? Which I just did......and this time I did something I rarely do. I voted a different ticket, just to vote against a guy...the incumbent sheriff. He's running against 4 others in the primary and has been the sheriff here for 18 years. He only needs 20% of the vote to get the party nomination. He may well get it, but I voted only to vote against him getting even that far. Ya see.......This clown has 382 indictments against him at the moment and a few more still pending. He's bilked the county (not a metro one) for about 1.5 million bucks and he actually has a lot of folks saying, "Yeah, but he's done a good job otherwise." Otherwise??? Christ on a crutch, for a cool million I could do "otherwise" myself. I'm appalled that he's even running again, but he may well make it. Aw yes.....opinions. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 07 Mar 00 - 02:05 PM Some genius (not me) said: "The function of an opinion is to make the opinionholder feel good. This is why people get so hostile when their opinions are attacked." Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: The youngest BOB fan Date: 07 Mar 00 - 04:32 PM In SC, every student must pass the BSAP exit exam before they are allowed to graduate. In preparation for this exam, each teacher does an exercise at the beginning of the class. One of these, although quite simplistic, was telling the difference between fact and opinion. For example: Chocolate ice cream is the best flavor. Obviously an opinion. What worries me is that some students actually found this complicated... |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: GUEST,Rich(stupidbodhranplayer....) Date: 07 Mar 00 - 05:53 PM I think somewher between youth and experience, probably lies the truth. Everyone has a valid opinion on something. There are people whose opinions I generally attach more weight to than others, and some of those people lie in both ends of the spectrum. With the passage of time comes wisdom, but also comes jading and bitterness. I know people possessed of an idealistic zeal that I miss about my youth. We learn over time, but we also accumulate weaknesses as well as strenghs over time. I generally respect anyone's opinion to a degree until they demonstate one way or another the value of their opinion, either in a given category or in general. For example, I have a friend who knows a good bit about acoustic blues and jugband music. He has shown time and time again that in those categories I will enjoy the artists he recommends, but I wouldn't ask him what Irish bands I should make a point in seeing. Rich |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: The Shambles Date: 08 Mar 00 - 03:36 PM Youth Is Wasted On The Young
If the truth be told
When you have your youth
If the truth be told,
Which one is right
If the truth be told, Roger Gall 1997 |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Hardiman the Fiddler Date: 08 Mar 00 - 09:41 PM Personally, I like the line from an old Clint Eastwood movie---"when I want your opinion, I'll give it to you." |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Ringer Date: 09 Mar 00 - 12:59 PM What do we mean by "respecting the opinions of others"? I've just looked inside myself and discovered that if someone else's opinion differs from mine then I don't respect it. I don't deny them (or even want to deny them) the right to hold the opinion, nor do I necessarily think the less of them for holding a contrary opinion, but I don't respect an opinion I believe to be wrong. 2 examples: Example 1 (trivial): My wife sometimes makes a pudding consisting of coconut & kiwi-fruit. The slimy texture and cloying sweetness of it almost make me retch, but my eldest son enjoys it immensely. I don't respect his taste in puddings at all, though if he speaks on the subjects of (amongst many others) beer, cosmology, philosophy or bell-ringing, then he's very sound. Example 2 (more serious): GeorgeH's postings (as well as those of others, eg Ickle Dorrit) lead me to think that he regards Margaret Thatcher as little better than Jack the Ripper, and her period as PM as an utter disaster. I, on the other hand, think that she was just what the UK needed at the end of the 70s, and that we are still reaping the benefits of her reign. I have no respect at all for his views on MT, because imo they are just plain wrong; he, I'm sure, thinks exactly the same about mine. But I hope that that wouldn't stop us sharing a few pints as we discussed the issues, even though we might part without having convinced the other. So, as to respecting the views of others, I don't. And I suspect that I'm no different to most of you there. |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: annamill Date: 09 Mar 00 - 01:18 PM BaldEagle, I may be wrong, but this may be a reference to a situation where you're not a all familiar with something and someone voices their opinion on it. Now are you going to respect his opinion or take it with that grain of salt. IMHO, love, annap |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: GUEST,Neil Lowe Date: 10 Mar 00 - 09:50 AM I thought that now I've got a little age on me, I must be getting pretty smart. I thought I knew it all, or at least most of it. Recent personal events took me down several notches...no, they flattened me. I didn't know squat. Everything I thought I knew was wrong. What a precarious predicament. Maybe everything I'm learning now will come back to flatten me again in another forty years. By then I imagine I won't give a damn anymore. For me to have respect for another person's opinions, I must first acknowledge that my own may be completely wrong. As a matter of fact, there's a strong likelihood that they are. That's why I lend so much credence to the saying, "Out of the mouths of babes...." In my experience, experience doesn't count for much. Regards, Neil |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 10 Mar 00 - 10:16 AM To "respect some else's opinions", in my view is perhaps a misleading expression as to what is meant. Seems to me that what is meant is respecting the other person's sincerity in holding the opinion, and not holding the (mistaken?) opinion against the opinionholder. Certainly this is what *I* mean when I use the expression. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Amos Date: 10 Mar 00 - 10:30 AM Neil --- that's normal for forty --- it provides rich fodder for rearranging and reopening until you reach fifty when you really _do_ know everything... |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Crowhugger Date: 10 Mar 00 - 10:54 AM Hey, Amos, you made my day. I haven't known everything since I was a teenager. Now I've everything to look forward to! CH |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Art Thieme Date: 10 Mar 00 - 11:01 AM If a million people do or know a stupid thing or a wrong fact, it's still a stupid thing---and wrong. That's not very democratic, but it's true (I think). We've all got our baggage and our misconceptions. Even if the truth were ever told about the facts around the assassination of John F. Kennedy, how would we ever know, really, the accuracy of it? We never can ! But being human, we'll keep on keeping on... Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: folk1234 Date: 10 Mar 00 - 12:53 PM I like Art Thieme's quote, "The Older I Get, The Better I Was". |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: kendall Date: 10 Mar 00 - 05:00 PM its similar to mine.. I'm not the man I used to think I was. |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Amos Date: 11 Mar 00 - 12:07 AM We know that kendall, but the man we think you are is fine with us! |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: catspaw49 Date: 11 Mar 00 - 12:17 AM Of course we have no idea who that is and sadly, neither does Kendall, although some rumors have surfaced suggesting he is tied to string of bodega streakings in the south Bronx and has been dreaming of a plan for curing his sinusitis by shitting size 13 Bass weejuns. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Escamillo Date: 11 Mar 00 - 05:04 AM I don't respect an opinion under these circumstances: - The person is trying to sell me something - He's a politician (oops- same as above) - He's paid for his opinion - He backs his opinion with the argument that thousands of people think similarly - He's critizicing my singing (oops-same as above) Un abrazo - Andrés
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: catspaw49 Date: 11 Mar 00 - 08:49 AM Actually Andres, except for the singing...ALL of them apply to politicians. Or they could apply to Kendall, especially on one of those days he's having problems with the weejuns. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Amos Date: 11 Mar 00 - 11:43 AM Mebbe he should switch to Pendletons... |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Escamillo Date: 11 Mar 00 - 08:08 PM Oh, sorry but somebody will have to explain to me what are weejuns and Pendletons, will you ? Andrés (who can't stand curiosity) |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: catspaw49 Date: 11 Mar 00 - 08:27 PM Shoes......Bass weejuns are a style of loafer you're probably familiar with, often referred to as "Penny Loafers" because of a slot across the top that some folks used to stick pennies in. Sorry Andres, I was just poking some fun at Kendall 'cause he's a good guy, and I often throw together ridiculous things because they are in fact so absurd. BTW, I think they size shoes differently down your way and size 13 is very large. But I still think your 4 things refer to politicians! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Age= importance of opinion. From: Escamillo Date: 11 Mar 00 - 11:15 PM oh, thanks.. since you said "shitting" size 13.. I was thinking on something rather .. no, it's ok. he Un abrazo - Andrés |
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