INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of

Subject: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 12:11 PM

For those who would like their information in a more straightforward manner, I have taken the liberty of posting Art Thieme's info here, from the Tavern Steamboat thread. He has a wealth of knowledge and experience about this subject & I am hoping to *lure* him in with more treasures like these:

"Folks, The 9-foot channel (guaranteed) is a product of our modern channelized navigable rivers. It's due to the efforts of the Army Corps of Engineers. The many dams on the rivers allow the water behind those dams to pool up in hopes of securing the guaranteed depth. Still, in low water years, dredging is often necessary.

A loaded barge has a draft of 9 feet. Needs 9 feet or MORE to navigate. (Empty they have draft of about one foot.)

In Mark Twain's time, the average life of a wooden-hulled steamboat was about 2 years. "THE CITY OF BAYOU SARA", which has a fine song about it's demise, was built at Jeffersonville, Indiana in 1884. She burned at New Madrid, Missouri 12/5/1885. Most sank from collisions with sawyers and snags and sandbars that weren't there on the downbound passage but appeared over night. Steel hulls helped a bunch though. There's only one steamboat (of the six remaining on the Mississippi River) that has a wooden hull.

Anybody know which boat that might be? And how does that boat defy the law against having wooden hulls on boats carrying passengers??

Art"

This is kat, again. The answer to Art's question if the Delta Queen, which has a special dispensation from Congress. You can read about her at www.steamboats.com.

Here's more from Art concerning a song LeeJ had mentioned, which Art does on his CD, The Older I get, the better I was:

"EJ,

I didn't write "Lamps Gone Out". It was included, in fragmentary form, in Mary Wheeler's 1944 book called Steamboatin' Days"----Univ. of Louisiana Press. Later it was expanded by someone, but not by me. Zipper verses found their way into the song. It might've been Dillon Bustin's morph job---somehow it sounds like his work to me. Anyhow, it's a good song.

Art Thieme"

Okay, so...let's hear more about steamboatin' and the music it inspires/d.

Thanks,

katlaughing

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Dale Rose
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 01:53 PM

There is a ton of stuff out there, here are a couple to start with.

John Hartford's Steamboat Pages, including a tribute to Miss Ferris, without whom John Hartford would likely not be the John Hartford we know.

A History of Boating on the White River done by a student at Arkansas School for Mathematics and Sciences as a class project. Worthwhile especially for the pictures you are not likely to see anywhere else.

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 02:03 PM

When I was 12 years old, my family moved back to Kentucky from Southern California. I remember going with my cousin Marilyn on a riverboat excursion that first summer. The boat was called The Avalon, and it was aan old stern-wheeler with cracked wood, rust, and peeling paint. In 1962, it was being used as a kind of floating Teen Club on Saturday afternoons. My Mom and Dad remembered going out on The Avalon in the thirties.

About 1966, there was a lot of talk about whether the old boat was worth preserving, many saying it was too decrepit to be trusted carrying passengers. However, a local group got behind the idea of restoring it. It was refitted and received it's new name The Belle of Louisville, and has been a symbol of the River City ever since.

Does anyone know more about her early history?

LEJ

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 02:33 PM

Every year now, Cincinatti has a festival of steamboats on the river called TALL STACKS. The website you can go to from the blue clicky thing is excellent although a little slow. Some fine thumbnailed pictures which you can enlarge, including a wonderful stern shot of Leej's "Belle of Louisville." There are also some excellent links to other steamboat sites. Enjoy!

Spaw

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: GUEST,Wavestar
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 02:43 PM

Hmm... I did a research project once on the invention of the steamboat, but then, it was originally invented in my town here in Vermont! Robert Fulton holds the patent, but only because he cheated his partener Samuel Morey, a native of Fairlee... Stories are told that Morey sunk his boat in anger in the town lake that bears his name...

As for songs, although my area is rich in the very earliest steam history, there aren't very many sings about it that I know of... Margaret MacArthur sings a few, and might very well know of some more.

-J

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 02:54 PM

Hey Leej--I just checked in and saw your Belle question. I guess you heard that the Belle was sunk (sabotaged) last year, and now even after restoration, it's questionable if it will compete in the Great Steamboat Race against the nasty ole Delta Queen from Cincy. It was in the news again several days ago, someone resigned or something. You can probably find out more at the Louisville Courier-Journal website. I'll see what I can find out and let you know. BTW, The Star of Jefferson docks at the Belevedeere and you can ride it.

Mary

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:17 PM

Mary, what a dastardly act! I can't believe somebody would sink the Belle. I hope they caught the perpetrators. Is the Star of Jefferson a new boat? Named for Jefferson County or Jeffersonville?

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: SDShad
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:33 PM

Thanks for the interesting trivia on the Delta Queen, Miz Fontaine. I recollect from my childhood summers in Wabasha Co., Minn., seeing her dock at Wabasha, Read's Landing, Lake City, and Red Wing many a time.

She is truly the queen of that river. Lovely boat.

And so long as we're posting links to info on steamboats, etc., well...I was going to be all clever and go out and find a web page about Missouri River steamboat culture, but...well...I couldn't find one. But, my pappy did put together the pretty much definitive bibliography on SoDak history, so I'll look up some references tonight.

Needless to say, my representation of furtrade boats on that other thread is probably not period-authentic, or for that matter, period-specific (mind you, it's not entirely clear what period our boat is s'posed to be in anyway), as I was basically making it up as I went along.

Chris

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:43 PM

Driving through British Columbia along the Dawson River canyon, I witnessed some of the most violent and treacherous rapids I've ever seen. I was shocked to find that a stern-wheeled mail packet had negotiated these rapids in both directions for many years, to bring mail to miners and homesteaders along the river. The skill and courage of some of these early Wilderness boatmen must have been incredible.

Another question: what was the name of the Missouri River steamboat that brought the Seventh Cavalry to the mouth of the Bighorn in 1876, and took the remnants back to Dakota after the massacre?

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:47 PM

Yo Leej--It looks like the Belle will race the Delta Queen this year on May 3. The Spirit (not Star) of Jefferson had to take her place last year and even though she won, those nasty ole judges gave the Golden Antlers to the Delta Queen. For those of you in cyberspace that don't know anything about steamboat races, pretty much anything goes and there are very few rules. Leej, it was 1997 that she sank, and I mispelled Belvedere, and I think the problems this year are financial ones.

You can read about various Kentucky Derby Festival events here.

You can read what the Courier-Journal has to say here.

And you can read about last year's events here.

Mary

PS It looks like the Julia Belle Swain is from Peoria...maybe Art knows about her.

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Bert
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:50 PM

Here's a steamboat song.

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 03:58 PM

I guess you know Mary, that Art worked the JBS for quite some time? Also Mary, have you ever been to Tall Stacks....very great festival!! Not too far either.

Spaw

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 05:27 PM

refresh, still fishing for Art

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: SDShad
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 05:42 PM

Leej--

That'd be the Far West under the command of Captain Grant Marsh, although I think he . There's a little bit at this blue clicky thing about this--looks like he didn't take the 7th upstream, although I think he did ferry supplies for them. He made a very rapid dash back to Bismarck with the wounded--record time, I believe.

Dang, you'd think there'd be a folksong about this by now.

Chris

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 06:20 PM

No Spaw, I haven't been to Tall Stacks, haven't even been to the Derby in person (even though I have to pause at about 5:30 on the first Saturday in May and sing "My Old Kentucky Home").

Back to the ships...did the tall ships sail up the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers back in the summer of 1976 for the Bicentennial celebrations? (Hate to admit it, but I'm YOUR AGE!) I know a replica of the Mayflower sailed up the Ohio River past my friend's house in Henderson. Maybe Art can tell us...how can these wooden boats do this? Did I read somewhere that as long as they don't carry passengers it's legal?

Mary

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Mbo
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 06:27 PM

I was on a paddlewheel steamboat once---but it was in San Diego, California! I must admit, even since I was about 8 years old, I've been fascinated my Steamboat races! --Mbo

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Art Thieme
Date: 30 Mar 00 - 09:13 PM

Hey, Mary,

The Julia Belle Swain (and the Twilight) are the boats I sang folksongs and told tall tales on all through the late 80s and the 1990s. The JBS was sold by it's builder and designer and owner, Dennis Trone, around '94 because it was too expensive to operate in this era when so many former passengers had decided to go over to the gambling boats even though those gaming monstrosities rarely (if ever) even leave the shore now. It was really sad to see the Trone Family have to sell that boat. When I began singing on the boat it was leaving it's Peoria moorings and moving, along with the new Twilight, to LeClaire, Iowa on the Mississippi River. Right now it operates out of La Crosse, Wisconsin on the Mississippi and does cruises to Winona, Minnesota and Prairie DuChien, Wisconsin. There is no finer site than watching the Julia Belle Swain and the Twilight comin' down the river out of the early morning mist. I will always miss the old girl, but I'm glad that she's still in loving hands. Captain Bo is a fine fellow. Our son, Chris, worked on the JBS most of the summers he was in highschool and college.

The Twilight still runs it's 2-day excursions from LeClaire, Iowa from Memorial day to October. Passengers stay overnight at the Chestnut Mountain Lodge outside of Galena, Illinois. Entertainment (since I left) is by the fine folksinger, Chris Valillo, and a great Mark Twain portrayer named Bob Anton. For a brochure or information, contact River Cruises at Box 406---Galena, IL 61036 (or call 1-800-331-1467) E-mail: [e-mail]

Folks, this is a great way to put the pace and the cement of the new milenium aside for a couple o' days and just go with the flow. Good food too...

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Dale Rose
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 02:08 AM

Really BIG jpg (297KB) of the St. Louis Waterfront in 1907, from the Library of Congress. The panoramic photo is entitled President's Day on the river, St. Louis, Mo..

CREATED/PUBLISHED c1907

NOTES Copyright deposit; Henry Stark; October 27, 1907.

Celebration of visit of Pres. Roosevelt who arrived on steamer "Mississippi".

Waiting for the download is certainly worth the effort, though. I tried to count the steamboats docked and out on the Mississippi, but gave up. I am sure that there are somewhere between 20 and 30 in view.

Use this link to find more LOC pictures Just enter the words steamboat and photograph in the search box and set it for match all of these words. (Searching just for steamboat will turn up lots of other good stuff, too, including the sheet music for Steamboat Bill.) The panoramic view of the Cincinnati waterfront, 1914, is good, too. Look carefully at the left panel ~~ just below the bridge you will see a steamboat just about to pass under.

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Art Thieme
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 10:10 AM

Dale,

You are amazing. Thnk you --- again !

Art

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Kim C
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 11:55 AM

Last summer Mister and I and several of our friends went to Kansas City (Mo) to the Steamboat Arabia museum. The Arabia hit a snag and went down in 1856, and remained buried until about 1989, when the Hawley family and their friends finally dug it up. By this time,150 years later, it was under a cornfield. See, the Arabia was full of merchant goods going to the settlers out West, and the Hawleys wanted to recover the artifacts and get rich by selling them off. But.... when they started really finding things, and holding them in their hands, they realized they couldn't break up this fantastic collection. The museum houses the single largest privately-owned collection of pre-Civil War artifacts in the world. So of course it is a Mecca for reenactors, because we can actually see what all this stuff really looked like.

And it's pretty surprising, really. Things you didn't think they had in 1856 --- well, they're on the Arabia. Dishes, tools, jewelry, clothing... it's all there. And it's not even all on display. They said they have about another 20+ years' worth of stuff in freezer storage waiting to be restored.

The boat's original capstan & anchor are on display. For some reason this really grabbed me, I don't know why. I am probably the only woman in the history of the world moved speechless and teary by the sight of a capstan and anchor.

The only other thing I can say is GO THERE and SEE IT.

------Kim

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Jim Krause
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 12:30 PM

Reading most of the above posts, I'm reminded of a song a banjo playing buddy & fellow bandmate Claude Hammer sings called Goin' Down to Cairo I have always thought that the Cairo referred to in the song was Cairo, IL. It has all the earmarks of being an antebellum minstrel show song. One of the verses he sings goesSwing Ma, swing Pa
Good-bye, bye-bye
Swing that gal from Arknasas
Good-bye Liza Jane
Oh, how I loved her
Ain't that a shame
Oh, how I loved her
Good-bye Liza Jane
It is as you could tell by the lyrical structure, a call and response song. It also is a sixteen bar melody, making a dandy contra dance tune, if you take the repeats. Over the years, I suspect it has picked up many floating verses. I should also think that some version is pobably in the DigiTrad. Anybody have any history on this song?

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 02:18 PM

Hello Wavestar--I just had lunch with a local historian here in Bardstown, and she says Robert Fitch invented the steamboat about 20 years before Fulton did. If you're interested she has documentation. Seems that Fitch just couldn't get financial backing and was indeed ahead of his time. There are newspaper articles and pictures of his boat in 1789(I think) chugging up the Ohio River at 8mph, faster than any of Fulton's. She had a lot of info, including why the steamboat was important for travel on western rivers such as the Mississippi and Missouri (something about tides), just wish I could remember it all. Here's a link about Fitch that I found using one of Dale's sites. John Fitch info ...my apologies if the link doesn't work--it's very, very long.

And Art, thanks for the info. I've only been on one cruise, but would love to try it again.

Mary

Subject: Lyr Add: STEAMBOAT BILL (Ben Shields, Leighton Br)
From: MMario
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 02:53 PM

"Steamboat Bill" is the song I found out on the Levy Sheet music Site I was going to enter, so guess I will.

STEAMBOAT BILL
Lyrics - Ben Shields
Music - Leighton Bros.
1910

Down the Mississippi steamd the Whipperwill
commanded by that pilot, Mister Steamboat Bill
The owners gave him order, on the strict Q. T.
To try and beat the record of the 'Robert E. Lee'
Just feed up your fires, let the old smoke roll
Burn up all your cargo if you run out of coal
If we don't beat that record, Billy told the mate
"Send my mail in care of Peter to the Golden Gate

Steamboat Bill steaming down the Mississippi
Steamboat Bill a mighty man was he
Steamboat Bill steaming down the Mississippi
going to beat the record of the "Robert E. Lee"

Up then stepped a gambling man from Louisville
who tried to get a bet against the Whipperwill
Billy flashed a roll, that shurely was a bear
The boiler it exploded, threw them up in the air
The gambler said to Billy as they left the wreck
"I don't know where we're going, but we're neck in neck"
Says Bill to the gambler "I'll tell you what I'll do
I will bet another thousand I'll go higher then you"

Steamboat Bill, he tore up the Mississippi
Steamboat Bill, the tide it made him swear
Steamboar Bill, he tore up the Mississippi
the explosion of the boiler got him up in the air

River's all in mourning now for Steamboat bill
No more you'll hear the puffing of the Whipperwill
There's crepe on ev'ry steamboat that plows those streams
from Memphis right to Natchez down to New Orleans
The wife of Mister William was at home in bed
When she got the telegram that steamboat's dead
Says she to the children, Bless each honey lamb
The next papa you have will be a railroad man

Steamboat Bill, missing on the Mississippi
Steamboat Bill, is with an angel band
Steamboat Bill, missing on the Mississippi
He's a pilot on a ferry in that promised land

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Dale Rose
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 09:01 PM

Mary, those are temporary files that are opened just for you, the rest of us can't see them. There ARE ways to do it ~~ I'll see what I can do in a bit. I had noticed the mention about John Fitch when I was researching the other stuff, but hadn't read it. (time out)

OK, try #1 didn't work. I did not look at EVERY character, but it appeared that my url was exactly like yours.

One more shot, but it looks a whole lot like the other two! I suppose if all else fails, just go to the link I put up earlier (it works!) and enter Robert Fitch as an exact phrase search term. I am sure that there IS a way to link to the documents themselves, but this way you get to use the LOC search engine to find anything else that your heart desires to know about. Want to see over 2,000 baseball cards pre 1914? They got 'em. Want to see 19th century books and periodicals? They got 'em, though that particular collection is just getting off the ground. Want to see first person narratives of the American South? Yep, they got those, too. Just go exploring and see what you come up with.

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 09:12 PM

Thanks Dale. When I used a different computer earlier today that had already been there, I got it to load...must have been in the cache or something. Anyway, if anyone is interested, go to Dale's second link and enter "steamboat" in the search engine. The John Fitch info should be the first link.

Mary

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Art Thieme
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 10:14 PM

Soddy,

Doug & Bonnie Miller from FOLKLORE VILLIAGE in Wisconsin sing this song. It's fairly well known in folk circles in the midwest. I do have the ords somewhere --- on a cassette. Will strive to find it for ya.

I recall one chorus being :

Black them boots and make 'em shine,
Goodbye, goodbye,
Black them boots and make 'em shine,
Goodbye Liza Jane...

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Dale Rose
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 08:57 AM

MP3.com has a good version of the Bayou Sarah by Tom Joad of Manchester, UK. Just enter Bayou Sarah in their search box, and a number of his titles will come up, mostly clawhammer banjo US old time music, Don't Let Your Deal Go Down, Sandy River Belle, Old Joe Clark, etc. Pretty nice listening stuff, actually.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE BALLAD OF J. D. LAW
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 04:34 PM

Found this at a great site, full of info and fun about teh Mississippi, which you can access at http://www.ccp.uchicago.edu/grad/Goldstein_Dan/RIVER/riverfun.html The Riverboat Lawyer Theme Song
Sing it, everybody! Thanks to Ben Sussman and André Pleuss for the authorship of this wonderful ditty.

THE BALLAD OF J. D. LAW

On the banks of the Mississippi
adventure is in store
as you hear the noble tale
of a certain J.D. Law

He took himself a mission
when he got his law degree
to work for truth and justice
and fight iniquity

Riverboat Lawyer (Riverboat Lawyer)
out to help the nation
Riverboat Lawyer (Riverboat Lawyer)
needed transportation...

So he found himself a loyal friend
and a mighty river boat
He christened it "Habeas Corpus"
and set himself afloat

From the lands of the sky-blue waters
to the swamps of the Creole State
He sails to find injustice
no problem is too great

Riverboat Lawyer (Riverboat Lawyer)
Sailing through the land
Riverboat Lawyer (Riverboat Lawyer)
With a law book in his hand

He's passed the bar in every state
along that Old Man River
He'll work for the truest verdict
that Justice can deliver

On the banks of the Mississippi
adventure is in store
And now you know the story
of the famous J.D. Law

The Riverboat Lawyer Fun Page was written and programmed by Daniel Goldstein and Dennis O'Brien

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 01 Apr 00 - 04:48 PM

SD shad, thanks for the info on the Far West. I had assumed that the Seventh arrived at the Big Horn on the steamer, because I remember reading that many of the troopers wore non-regulation straw hats that they had purchased on board.

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 02 Apr 00 - 03:01 PM

Caroline and I, along with our oldest grandchild, enjoyed a dinner cruise on the Julia Belle Swain after the Great River Folk Festival in LaCrosse, Wisconsin, last year. Swapped songs with Cap'n Bo and his mate up in the wheelhouse. Lord, how we love that vessel! Had our first trip aboard her when Art took us with him, even down to landing on an island in the Mississippi to switch over to the downriver run on the . I have a lovely print of a painting of her hanging on my office wall.

Cathy Barton and Dave Para do a fine "Bayou Sarah" on their most recent CD: Crazy Quilt. Folk-Legacy has it in stock. Right now they are putting together a full CD of riverboat songs which will be recorded soon. You should also enjoy "Jim Bludso of the " on their Folk-Legacy cassette titled On a Day Like Today. This is a setting by Dave Para of the poem written in 1871 by John Hay who had been one of Lincoln's secretaries and later became Secretary of State under McKinley and Theodore Roosevelt. Great story!
read all of 'em!). If you're ever coming through northwest Connecticut, give us a call and you'll be welcome to come over and browse for awhile. Coffee served at no additional charge (fancy smile emoticon).

Sandy

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 02 Apr 00 - 03:13 PM

Used the wrong keyboard gridgit in the first paragraph and cancelled out the name of the boat we switched to: namely the Twilight. Sorry 'bout that!

But the important loss, due to my notorious cyber-clumsiness, is what I wanted to offer about the library. Please add: I have been collecting keelboat, flatboat, and steamboatin' books for a number of years and now have some 90 volumes about 'em in my library, plus a few about canals. I also have all 65 of the "Rivers of America" series and have even read all of 'em! (From this point, continue on to the open invitation that closes the above E-pistle.) Cyberklutz Sandy (who would love to have Joe Offer fix the goofs and save me all this humiliation!)

Subject: Tune Add: STEAMBOAT BILL (Ben Shields/Leighton Br)
From: MMario
Date: 02 Apr 00 - 08:39 PM

MIDI file: stmbtbll.mid

Timebase: 192

Name: STEAMBOAT BILL
Text: By Ben Shields/Leighton Bros.
Copyright: 1910
Key: G
TimeSig: 4/4 24 8
Start
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End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:Steamboat Bill
M:4/4
Q:1/4=120
K:G
GGGGBddd|c2Ad4D|GGGGBddB|A2F2D4|DGGGGBBBA|
AG2EGG2A|^AB^AB^ABdd|B^ABBBG4|DGGGGBdd|Bc2Ad4|
DGGGGBdd|BAAFE4|EGGGGBBA|AGGEG3A^A|B^AB^ABddB|
^ABBG5^A|B2G2^G2^AB|^AB^ABd3^A|B2G4Bd|edBA4^A|
B2G2^G2^AB|^AB^ABdddde|^de^cdBAGB|GAG15/4||

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: GUEST,Wavestar
Date: 02 Apr 00 - 10:43 PM

Mary In Kentucky-

I'd love to see that info on Fitch- I'd never heard of him, or don't recall hearing of him, which is surprising, given the steamboat fanatacism around here (or not, considering the loyalty to the claim of Samuel Morey (who also couldn't get the financial backing, and whose steamboat was also better than Fulton's... he wanted to perfect his, but Fulton was content with an imperfect one to patent!) I'll try and sort my way through those links in a little bit... Interesting how history, particularly that including singular people, often has repeating ideas and circumstances... Some things just have their time, I guess.

-J

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 02 Apr 00 - 10:51 PM

Wavestar--Give me a couple of days; I should have lunch with our historian again soon. We even have a model of Fitch's boat across from our court square here in Bardstown...I may have to actually stop by there and read the info!

Mary

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 03 Apr 00 - 12:05 AM

What you might want to look for is Thomas Boyd's book, Poor John Fitch, Inventor of the Steamboat, G. P. Putnam's Sons, New York, 1935. It shows up on a number of the used book sites like www.bookfinder.com at varying prices, but it's available.

Sandy

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 04:28 PM

Hi Wavestar. Here's some info about John Fitch, the man that really invented the steamboat. (Yes, I'm biased.)

Our local newspaper here in Bardstown is running a year-long weekly series commemorating its 100th anniversary, and a full page article recounting the dedication of the John Fitch Monument here in Bardstown in 1927 was in the paper March 20, 2000. It's too long to quote here, and since it's only aout the monument, I didn't think you would be interested in the entire article. If you are, let me know. I like this quote:

"I know nothing so perplexing and vexatious to a man of feelings as a turbulent wife and steamboat building. I experienced the former and quit in season, and had I been in my right senses, I should have undoubtedly treated the latter in the same manner; but for one man to be teased with both, he must be looked upon as the most unfortunate man of this world."--from the diary of John Fitch

This article also quotes Governor W. J. Fields: "History has taught us, the textbooks in our schools have taught our children, that Robert Fulton was the inventor of the steamboat and the public accepted that teaching as true." He went on to say, "Yes, a few people knew that it was not true..." as he recognized the eforts of Mrs. Ben Johnson and the John Fitch Chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR), to honor the real inventor of the steamboat, John Fitch.

There is some info online about John Fitch at brinannica.com

There is an article in Kentucky Encyclopedia which you can obtain at amazon.com or possibly through an interlibrary loan.

The DAR here in Bardstown originally researched John Fitch and may have a list of original sources.

The Filson Club Historical Society in Louisville has some land and legal papers of Fitch's.

Good luck. BTW our local hisorian had never heard of Morey!

Mary

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 08:53 PM

G'day,
Thanks to MMario the tune for "Steamboat Bill" can be found here at the Mudcat MIDI site.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: INFO REQ-Steamboats, Music & History of
From: GUEST,Wavestar
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 01:08 AM

Thanks for the info Mary-

I'm sure our local town historian would be deeply hurt on Morey's behalf! Ahh well... such is history.

-J