St Albans - Aussie 'catters

Subject: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: alison
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 02:10 AM

Hi,

Just putting this in in advance to see how many 'catters are likely to be at St Albans......

I'm doing two workshops in the gallery on Saturday, and might be backing Spidertom for a few of his songs....

then maybe we can arrange a place to meet.. so we can get some photos onto the resource page....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Spider Tom
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 05:45 AM

Calling all Mudcatters going to St Albans,Stand up and be counted,Thats two names onthe list, who's next?

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: GUEST,Lollipop
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 06:13 AM

why would anyone bother, it will be the same old lousy acts that cannot play or sing

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Spider Tom
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 06:29 AM

Could have been, but we'll be there.
So It will be all the better for it.
Shame to have a picknic without a lollypop for desert!

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 09:44 AM

Ali & ST.

Thanks for yesterday, "Sam'n'Bill" will be with you! In "Heart & Spirit" not on the "Good Shit Lollypoop"

CYA Cobs - Sam

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Callie
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 10:04 AM

I'll be there. Unfortunately, I have to miss out on Saturday due to another commitment. My group Touchwood was scheduled to play on Saturday - we're trying to change to Sunday. In any case, I'll be there Saturday night (if the ferry is working in the evening) and Sunday. I'm looking forward to seeing you all!

Lollipop: get some manners or go away.

--Callie

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Spider Tom
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 10:44 PM

Callie I think the ferry goes all night See ya Tom

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Bugsy
Date: 01 May 00 - 12:42 AM

Sorry - too far to come from Perth.

Have a couple of Guinnesses (Guinnie?) on me.

CHeers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Callie
Date: 01 May 00 - 01:34 AM

Happy to oblige, bugsy!

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: harmoniclive
Date: 01 May 00 - 02:16 AM

hey! i,ll come and play if someone wants to pay me.other than that,i think lollipop is right!

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: alison
Date: 01 May 00 - 02:23 AM

you don't need to go see the acts... start your own session........... it's nice just to get out of Sydney for the weekend.....

don't I know you Harmoniclive?

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 01 May 00 - 02:44 AM

G'day Alison et al,

The Snalbans flyer looks good - a great lineup of talent for a small festival. I should get there for at least a day - if not camping for the whole weekend (depending upon attitude of the good wife, who returns from Tasmania the Saturday before).

It will be nice to have a gathering of devoted 'catters and meet a few of those that have only been names - and we won't miss those who demand appearance money.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Helen
Date: 01 May 00 - 08:44 AM

Well, I can finally say (with some degree of certainty) that I will be there. Wouldn't miss it.

Last year it was a 'Catters convention of 3 (Alison, Alan & I) so let's see if we can do some geometric rather than arithmetic progression: double, triple, quadruple??

Helen

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Callie
Date: 01 May 00 - 08:00 PM

Just been advised that Touchwood has been scrapped from the program as we could only play on Sunday (cry!). But I'll be there on Saturday night. How do we find each other? Or, more accurately, how do I find all of YOU?

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: alison
Date: 02 May 00 - 01:04 AM

Damn that's a shame.... are you just there for Saturday night? or will you be there Sunday?

let us know what time you'll be around and we'll arrange a time to meet up, I know Helen, alan and I have mudcat T shirts.... but that won't help on Saturday night.. we'll be all rugged up against the cold....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Callie
Date: 02 May 00 - 01:11 AM

I'll arrive saturday night AND be there Sunday. Hopefully it will be sunny enough for you to have your t-shirts on Sunday!! I'll be wearing Don Meixer's bracelet (which I bidded for successfully in the Mudcat auction!) but that's NOT very visible at all. I'm in the Solidarity Choir, and we tend to group together a bit and are quite audible ... see you there!

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: harmoniclive
Date: 02 May 00 - 01:59 AM

well, its just as i thought,the bush music guru doesnt believe musicians should be payed. he comes from the same school of thought that believes anyone who doesnt play in a bush band, or play awful folk songs,doesnt belong at folk festivals.

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 02 May 00 - 02:42 AM

G'day harmoniclive,

Working musicians should always be paid (even if that doesn't always happen!). The St Albans Festival has about 30 acts listed on the flyer and I'm sure they are getting paid. There will also hundreds of people who are paying to hear them ... that's that's the only way that the musicians are going to get paid.

A lot of those paying to attend the festival will be musicians who are well worth paying, when they perform. One of the hallmarks of good musicians is the way they learn and grow - including listening to their peers. There are also those who may have realised that having weekends to their own purposes can be more satisfying than chasing another gig - and never hearing anyone else.

Then there are those like the proverbial Irish* (* replace with any other appropriate subgroup) folkie ... who was only in for the money.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Bruce from Bathurst
Date: 02 May 00 - 03:16 AM

Once again I'm missing Snalbans and I'm not happy about it. The excuse this time is an oldie but a goodie - "family commitments". I can't expect to get a leave pass for every festival and I did come home from the National last week needing eleven hours sleep.

The St Albans Festival will be a fine weekend, I'm sure. Good people, a pretty part of the world and much sharing of music. Quite close to Sydney, too, for any 'catters jetting in from elsewhere.

Have a nice one, folks.

Bruce

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Helen
Date: 02 May 00 - 05:12 AM

I had a silly thought - pretty rare occurrence, silly thoughts, been much too serious over the last year. What about those dreadful headband things with 2 springs on either side of the head with a flower or something on the end. They stick up like rabbit ears.

No, the thought did strike that we could walk around wearing one of those, but it was replaced fairly quickly by the more practical thought of something stuck in the crown of your hat which stands up higher than the crowd, with Mudcat written on it or the Mudcat logo. It would work in daylight while we are still wearing a hat, but not so much at night, but maybe there is a nighttime alternative.

I also think that we should arrange to meet at a specific time, maybe around lunchtime, or 4 - 5pm on Saturday i.e. before the evening events and after the main daytime concerts etc, at a specific place. We could prearrange two times - one on Saturday and one on Sunday. We can organise for one of us to bring a big sign. We might even flush some other 'Catters out of the woodwork as well.

Helen

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: alison
Date: 02 May 00 - 05:21 AM

we'll have to make it after 5pm.. I'm doing a workshop just before then...... or lunchtime Sunday.....

you any good at making signs Helen???

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Helen
Date: 02 May 00 - 05:36 AM

Yes, I'm great at making signs. As soon as I typed that I knew I'd be making up some sort of sign/banner/flag.

Regarding the Saturday option, I just think it would be good to identify everyone early on, rather than leaving it till Sunday, and then cater for the Sunday arrivals as well by having a second meeting. We can set a session up or something on Sunday, perhaps, or work out on Saturday which campfire sessions are happening and where. Whatever seems appropriate, but it would be sad, I think, to pass another 'Catter and not realise who they are.

Helen

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: GUEST,Garry of Australia
Date: 02 May 00 - 07:28 AM

It is good to see that some people are seeing the truth behind folk music, that there is not much value or talent there, good on you harmoniclive and lollipop, don't let the folk nazis get to you. I for one agree that decent and talented folkies should get paid considerably more for their services, unfortunately most organisers of festivals are not prepared to take a risk and finance the festivals, if they did we would have better acts and more variety, instead of the same boring old faces we get at all the festivals in NSW Australia.

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Spider Tom
Date: 02 May 00 - 07:36 AM

I will be wearing a black hat witha silver spider on the front I will also be wearing my spider belt buckle a big silver one I'll stick a black and white label on with Mudcat on it.
That will give you lot a chance to find/avoid me as you may wish ( Find would be good though)
Hope to see you all there
I'm lucky to be knowing a few Mudcatters already
Ken

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: GUEST,Lollipop
Date: 02 May 00 - 07:49 AM

what type of music do you play Spider Tom, both kinds I guess, I hope they have you behind chicken wire, to stop the bottles and tomatoes.

Unfortunately for you I will not be there, I have only been to 3 St Albans and this one looks the same as all the others.

Good to see others are speaking out against the tyranny of folk music, I like the term folk nazis good description.

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: harmoniclive
Date: 02 May 00 - 07:56 AM

i really dont need advice about what constitutes a good musician.the fact is i have played for money and i,ve played lots of times ,just for the the hell of it.i,ve played on street corners,in pubs,clubs,and yes,even folk clubs,where everyone that didnt know what i was playing decided decided they would "accompany" me.the only time i felt like got any respect for any dues i,ve paid is when i got paid too.

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Callie
Date: 02 May 00 - 10:03 AM

Seems odd to me that people who claim not to like folk music are reading Mudcat threads. And sad that they would hide behind the 'guest' mask. Still ... takes all types.

So I'll look out for silver spiders, Mudcat banners and bouncy headband thingoes. It will be a real pleasure to meet you all!

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: harmoniclive
Date: 03 May 00 - 06:25 AM

who,s hiding? tell me where you are and i,ll meet you at dawn with pistols at thirty paces! i find it odd that someone who claims to be interested in music cant understand , that you could be interested in all things relating to music whatever the genre.if you want to to make this forum exclusively yours, then i feel sorry for you.

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Spider Tom
Date: 03 May 00 - 07:43 AM

Oh how easy it could be to drown in such negitivity.
What has beset the pathetic Harmoniclive.
Quick someone put a poltice upon the poor mans ego.
Have you never watched a swallow fly for the sheer pleasure of flying?
Have you never seen a feather float upon the breese to let the wind take it where it will?
Oh how sad, how lonely you must be to find such pain in the presence of others whom YOU consider, unworthy of your company.
Don't worry we can cope without you, and when in time you have excluded all the unworthy ones from your list , you will once again just have to, GO AND PLAY WITH YOURSELF!
And Lollypop, it looks like, you have ears that don't hear, to be put out in such a way.
You must first check the package before rejecting the contents. It seems that somewhat like,harmonic-Cleaver above you will also have a sticky time on your own.
POOR LOLLYPOP!

But on the positive side I trust we all will meet and delve into the simple unselfish pleasures of music-making
And if Harmoniclive or Lollipop were there they could always toss us a penny or two for our troubles, so then they could look a little less hypocritical.
To Garry of Australia I will say that nothing is beyond criticism, and you could indeed be right in a point or two but surely if there is a problem within the folk scene in N.S.W. we could all work together to make it better, and meeting together to make music and talk is surely a step in the right direction.
We could do with your input, not your output.
Keep making music maybe it will help with the healing.

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Callie
Date: 03 May 00 - 07:55 AM

nicely put Spider - and from the heart.

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Spider Tom
Date: 03 May 00 - 08:03 AM

Thanks Callie, looking forwards!

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: GUEST,Garry of Australia
Date: 03 May 00 - 09:09 AM

Spider Tom, you have only been in the folk scene a short time, you are not aware of the politics that goes on, in NSW we have a clicky group of people, I prefer to call them folk nazis who will not allow folk music to progress and breathe, they want to protect their own patch and keep folk music in the past even to the last century. As a result folk music has not moved for years, we do not have any highly trained instrumentalists or singers (who can read music and playor sing in all keys), no one can possibly make a good living out of folk music and to top it all, a lot of folk musicians are luddites when it comes to amplification.

I do not play in the folk scene these days because there is very little money attached, Spider Tom and I have played together on a couple of occassions and you Spider Tom know how much work I get outside the folk scene, heaps, the average person loves what I do if I have a good night even if I think I had a bad night, but over the years I have heard all sorts of comments from the average person that folkies are weird, in other words they have bad PR. To give one example I was in a line to purchase food at the St Albans festival about 8 years ago and this woman turned to me in the line and asked why there was all these strange people around.

I agree with harmonclive, mudcat is not reserved for the folkies. This is a forum and as such is open to all forms of free speech, whether the folkies like it or not.

Folkies need to broaden the music and not be stuck in this never ending spiral of Irish tunes in G or D, try some scottish tunes in Eb, that test most folkies.

I play with classical musicians, in a bushband, play some jazz and blues occassionally and it is so good to work with musicians who can read music and improvise in any key and take a simple folk tune and push it in all directions.

I have to say that most of the classical musicians I know put folkies down, they rightfully argue that there is a lot more to music than folk music and folkies need to open their eyes and broaden and move the genre on.

As a result I agree with some of the others on this page that the festivals continually have the same tired old talentless acts

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Spider Tom
Date: 03 May 00 - 10:02 AM

Well blow me down, If it isnt yourself THE Garry of Australia.
I place you now It comes to me like a stampede of wild wilderbeasts it is yourself.
I am glad that I never said anything insultive or I could have diminished the mutual respect we hold for each other.
I do sympathise with your sentiments above.
I have in my dealings with both British and Americans been given far more encouragement than it seems possible to muster in this funny little folk fraternity onto which I cling.
But I am in rather than out because I believe in this way you can slowly influence change, maybe make some people realise that if something dosent grow it dies,
Maybe make people see that there is talent under their noses yet they choose to ignore it because of some misguided loyalty to the old school.
Maybe I could stand up and bang a drum and proclaim that
This is the modern time we live in and new songs have a place in the folk scene .
BUT no I have learned to accept the indifference of some because of the support and kinship of some very special people who, make it worthwhile despite the problems but though frustrated I don't give up neither should you

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Callie
Date: 03 May 00 - 10:09 AM

What a shame you've had a bad experience. The 'folk' musicians I play with have eclectic tastes - some are musically literate, some play by ear. I enjoy making all kinds of music and find the folk scene stimulating and rich. I've found the past few St Albans which I have attended to have a mixture of high standard and also allowing musicians of all standards to join in. I personally think it's important to aim for the highest standard of musicianship possible, but other people are in the scene because the opposite also applies: there are no restrictions on WHO can make music. Others, including myself, also find the folk scene stimulating on a social level - more likely to find people with whom I share common interests which include (but are not confined to) music.

I also play a lot of jazz and actually find musicians in that genre more closed minded and less willing to try anything. Doesn't it just depend on where you are and who you're with?

My dislike for playing classical music stems mainly from the lack of connection I feel with musicians of that genre - tend to be (in my experience) quite conservative in both musical taste AND world experience and attitudes. What's the good of being able to play in four flats if the music you're making is not part of a living culture? Why do so many clasically trained musicans refer to music being created now as "twentieth century music" - as though it fits in a neat little box in order to be dismissed on the basis that it is "weird and you can't whistle the tune". It's an attitude that seems to be instilled with the training that classically trained musicians receive, and also I think connected to being tied down to reading dots and not really listening to what's being played.

It's great that a variety of opinions find their way to Mudcat - but your distaste for folkies makes me wonder what keeps you sticking around. Why not find a site that caters (catters!) more to your interest?

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: harmoniclive
Date: 04 May 00 - 07:06 AM

i would rather drown in negativity, than drown in puerile bullshit! what kind of drugs are you on spider?prozac?.in case you hadn,t noticed its a sad lonesome cold world,and trying to insult someone from the anonimity of the net doesnt help one bit.i think you had better crawl back under your rock before you get crushed by a boot heel.

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Spider Tom
Date: 04 May 00 - 08:59 AM

Harmoniclive,
How sad that you would even think such a thought.
That I would be in the least bit insultive to your poor lonely sad tragic self.
I may have given you this impression as, looking through rose coloured glasses at the world as you obviously do, you may have thought the best of me.
No harmoniclive, I was not being insultive to your special self.
I was mearly being honest, as in a fashion I'm sure you thought you were.
I would suggest that you don't trouble yourself about the purile meanderings of one such as I.
Go out into the streets in search to the answer to a question I pose;
Why would a solo player have the word harmoni? as part of their tag, when it should be Monomoniclive?
I am crawling back under my rock now it's where I keep my sense of humour, makes life that little more bearable.
Would you like to try some, or don't you like the taste?
Maybe yours is stuck fast to your heel.

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Roo
Date: 04 May 00 - 09:07 AM

http://folk.mountaintracks.com.au/St.Albans/

Some different faces in the line-up this year. Should be good.... but I will miss it. Hello all you familiar faces.

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Helen
Date: 04 May 00 - 08:31 PM

Thanks, Roo,

I'm going to check that site out now.

I'm still hoping that someone will come in on the discussion on how the Mudcatters are going to meet: day, time, place, identification clues, etc. Any suggestions?

Helen

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Helen
Date: 04 May 00 - 08:48 PM

Okay,

How about 1-2pm under the front verandah of the Pub, or as near as you can get to it, on Saturday. I'll bring the poster, and I'll put it up somewhere obvious when I get there to alert everyone.

Helen

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: alison
Date: 04 May 00 - 09:45 PM

what about 1-2pm Sat outside the barn... then we get to hear some entertainment too.... or later 5.30pm outside the barn???

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Callie
Date: 04 May 00 - 09:45 PM

sigh - I can't get there until Saturday night/Sunday. Can we also meet same time on Sunday? pretty please?!

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Spider Tom
Date: 04 May 00 - 10:34 PM

We could meet twice and it would be twice as nice.
Either time is good for me.
Good thinking fellow catters,
I look forward with excitement,
Spider Tom

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: alison
Date: 04 May 00 - 10:38 PM

same time sunday lunch would be good too..... 1pm outside the barn?

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: alison
Date: 04 May 00 - 11:15 PM

Garry,

"we do not have any highly trained instrumentalists or singers (who can read music and play or sing in all keys),"

surely this should read "we do not have MANY........"

How much more training do you think I should have? doesn't grade 8 theory and practical on various instruments count? (I'm sure others have qualifications too, eg The Creel), admittedly I was trained in the classical style on a few instruments (but not all) but that doesn't mean I only play classical music .... and I do consider myself to be a folkie, amongst other things.....

no I don't play much in the folk scene (except for joining in, in the clubs), the majority of my work comes from outside.. but I'm still taking folk music to those people outside the folk scene when I do those other jobs..... maybe it'll bring them into the folk clubs, and get some new blood in so we can change the way things are going......

and yes I can play in any number of sharps or flats... but apart from being an nice ego trip, who really cares? Joe public thinks "that's a nice song / tune" not "wow, he/she can play in 5 flats"....... and let's face it you don't need to if you have a capo or a transpose button....

anyone can train to be technically competent but unless the passion and fire is there.. it means nothing

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Helen
Date: 05 May 00 - 02:41 AM

Okay, outside the barn is a good idea, and I like the idea of meeting on Sunday, too - don't want to miss out on meeting you, Callie, and there may be others who can't be there Sunday.

I'm happy either lunchtime or 5.30pm on Saturday. I just picked 1-2pm because I checked the program and there is a bit of a lull in the proceedings then, so hopefully none of us would be occupied with workshops/entertainment/performing etc.

Also, I will probably make up a card of some sort to put in my hatband, and when I do I'll post a copy of the design on my webpage so you can copy it or use a similar idea. I'm not really planning to use the funny springy things, although I would if I knew where to find some.

Helen

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: alison
Date: 05 May 00 - 02:52 AM

Great Helen.. give us the URL for your webpage please..... I'll probably have my mudcat T shirt on.. under whatever amount of other layers I'll need to keep warm, and probably a rainbow coloured hat if its sunny....

deedley-boppers, (spring things) I last saw in Go-Lo, or Granny Mays.....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Callie
Date: 05 May 00 - 03:51 AM

Our local granny may just closed down.

i have long brown hair (ha! that's like saying "which man is it? oh - the one with the beard!" at a festival)and will wear my black hat on sat night and sunday - it's kinda spanish looking (the hat). I'll be on the lookout!

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Spider Tom
Date: 05 May 00 - 08:24 AM

I will follow alison I know what her hat looks like see you all sat. and sun.
Spider Tom AKA ken

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Helen
Date: 05 May 00 - 11:49 PM

Great. I haven't made up the card yet, but I'll do it in the next hour or so and post it at: http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Gazebo/8475/mudcat.htm

- I haven't made that page up yet either, so don't jump the gun and try and find it yet. If you do arrive early and there is nothing at that address you can look at my wedding photos (2 pages) on http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Gazebo/8475/wedding.htm while you are in the neighbourhood. Actually it might be .html if it doesn't work with just .htm

Helen

Subject: RE: St Albans - Aussie 'catters
From: Helen
Date: 06 May 00 - 12:42 AM

Okay,

The Mudcat hatband card is up on my website now, i.e the 'Cat card for 'Cat hats worn by 'Cats in the Hats. href=http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Gazebo/8475/mudcat.htm>http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Gazebo/8475/mudcat.htm

I need to tidy up the Mudcat Cafe font a bit but I'll probably do that later today and post the revised version. It's usable in the current form but it could be a bit clearer.

Just to make the arrangements clear - we really hadn't picked either lunchtime or evening yet: let's make it 5.30pm Saturday, outside the barn, and 1pm Sunday, same place. How about that, 'Cats in the Hats? Will the 'Cats come back the very next day?

Helen

I'll make the sign