Is Napster a good thing?

Subject: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 10 Jun 00 - 02:47 PM

(for anyone who doesn't know, napster www.napster.comis an easy way of sharing CD quality songs for free over the net)

Is Napster a bad thing? I don't think so. I use Napster a lot but as a result I probably buy more CDs.

Whenever I download a song, it results in 1 of 2 actions. Either I don't like it (and am pleased I didn't buy the CD) or I like it enough to want to own the CD.

In the late '70's it was thought that casettes would kill the music industry. They didn't and haven't.

From my viewpoint mp3 and napster are no different. If you like something a lot, you want the 'proper' version. No amount of bootlegging will change that.

Any thoughts?

Ed

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 10 Jun 00 - 03:01 PM

Couple of points...

CD quality?!?! You must be joking... the majority of stuff I've heard on napster, while good enough for the girls I go with, are not encoded at the CD quality level... Unless yer downloading the MP3'S at 3 to 5 megs....

Yer right about Tapes... whole heartedly... Yer also right that Napster infact, boosts CD sales... Even the die hard fans who down every MP3 by Me-whiney-A still go out and by the Cds when they can...

Quite frankly I do the same thing with games and software... I get WAREZ versions of new ware and test it out... if I like it, the odds are VERY good that I'll go out and buy it.. if I don't like it, I delete it and never thing about it again...

And the distribution nazis are NOT gonna be able to ever stop it!! Even if Napster gets shut down, there are several other such programs, some of which are many times better than Napster infact, waiting in teh wings to take the fore-front in ware swapping...

{~`

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Jun 00 - 03:14 PM

Ed, I'm guessing that your question really becomes: "Is the free exchange of recorded music a bad thing" am I right? Napster is just someone's innovative idea for a product based on the easy avilibility of recorded music wrapped up in computer files. I don't mean to make any judgements here about copyright law, personal honesty, human rights, intellectual freedom or any of the popular issues surrounding Napster, just a simple observation about their product.

Ask the Mudcatters who earn their livelihood from their music what they think (Oh, I see you did). I'm gussing they will feel conflicted on the issue as well. If an artist is producing his or her own music and forking over all their savings to get a CD produced so they can hawk it at gigs between sets, they may prefer that you give them a break, take the big chance and just buy the CD. If you don't like it you can at least feel good knowing that you've supported an artist who needs the money more than you do. If you're talking about the music of big name acts, they may not be making enough from CD sales to notice. The music industry is really brutal towards those who supply their material.

On the other side, some artists are encouraging the distribution of MP3 files because the distribution costs are very low and they believe they will gain a wider following. And, of course, some people will actually pay for the MP3 file through the commercial sites set up for that purpose.

I'm going to trace your thread and follow it in the hope that folks with a genuine economic stake in this issue will share their views.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Jun 00 - 03:28 PM

As a musician that is in the process of producing our first CD, I guess it would come down for me to a simple question. Would the use of this technology and this site enhance the sales of the product that the band is investing time and dollars into? If a positive anwer to that question can be demonstrated to me, then I would consider allowing our work there. If not, I would be absolutely opposed to our efforts being used in a way which did not help our investment to be successful. Before anyone whacks me on some "folk tradition" argument, let's ask Sandy & Caroline about the effect of $ on their ability to produce the music. I don't believe that anyone is driven by what is right for this tradition more; nor is their anyone out there who has done more to preserve it and pass it on. I would love to hear their take on this issue.

Big Mick

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 10 Jun 00 - 04:00 PM

Mark, I understand and appreciate much of what you're saying - I too look forward to other replies.

Big Mick - if I came to see you and enjoyed your gig, I might well buy your CD. If the CD was great I'd make copies for my friends

That may (or may not) result in their going to see you.

I wouldn't however think that I'd done anything morally wrong

Maybe I should...

Ed

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Jun 00 - 04:07 PM

Yes Ed, that is the real question, isn't it? Even in days recently gone by, one complaint was always about copying tapes, or CD's to tapes and giving them out. I pretty well quit doing that some time ago, except in very specific circumstances, and then usually bought the CD later. Sometimes fellow musicians send me a tape of a song that I want to learn. I will usually go out and buy the CD later, because I feel the artist ought to be compensated. As I read my comments here, I realize that I could make arguments on both sides of this issue. I think I am going to enjoy this thread.

Big Mick

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Jun 00 - 04:10 PM

Well, this is just me but when I enjoy an act enough to want to share the CD with friends, I buy several copies of their CD and give the CDs to friends. If I don't give them CD, then they can hear it when they come over. If they don't come over, maybe they're not really friends. I never thought of this practice as any sort of moral thing, I just like supporting the acts I enjoy.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 10 Jun 00 - 06:25 PM

Friends often ask me to tape cds for them. I always refuse, but offer to loan them the cd, with a speech about supporting artists in our lifetime. I don't have a computer that can download Napster (for some reason) but the arguement is the same- am I committed to supporting artists by buying their cds or not? If I don't like the cd we have a very fine used cd store here in town...

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jun 00 - 07:47 PM

Yesterday browsing in a charity shop I bought a great Christy Moore tape for 50p. Christy Moore didn't get any of that, any more than he would if I'd copied it off a friend, or downloadedd it from some siite of the net. Apart from the fact that the charity got 50p, what's the difference?

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Nicole Leonard
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 03:39 AM

I don't actually know anything about Napster, but I am very interested in MP3. I am a musician who has recently released my first album. I live in New Zealand which is very isolated and has a small population. We have sold a few hundred copies locally, but have also put our album on mp3.com to try to reach a wider audience. As yet I don't know how financially successful this will prove to be. However it is exciting to find out our music is being heard in Spain, Canada, Argentina, Norway, Germany, USA and so on. It is also exciting that musicians can now do it themselves instead of being reliant on getting a record contract, which are few and far between, and you feel like you and every other musician are begging the record companies to throw you a crumb! I don't think the big record companies like losing that control. Also it allows so much diversity, otherwise we would all only be listening to Michael Jackson and Mariah Carey. (sorry there are no breaks in this, I only joined yesterday!)

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 04:05 AM

What a toughie...........everywhere we play, we are asked if we have tapes/CD's, and we have to say "No". Not all, but most everyting we play is PD, but everyone I have talked to about recording us wants about $1,000.00(US) per tune to make a commercial recording which makes the master cost us (a non profit group) somewhere around $20,000. Minimum order from the studio is 100 tapes/CD's. There is just no possible way for us to do any commercial type recordings at all.........we have no way of knowing how long it would take to re-coup the original investment, and do not have the cash outlay to finance the studio to begin with. Not to mention royalties on the non PD tunes...........

I must admit to owning several pirated cassettes, most of "Multiple Artists", BUT, if I like a particular artist, I DO go and buy more music from s/he. I think I have contributed heavily to Frankie Gavin's lifestyle in the last few years, not to mention Mick Moloney and Eugene O'Donnell. I know that it takes a lot of sales to make a dent in royalties, but I have bought many tapes/CD's of my favorite artists to give away, just because the quality of home recordings is so poor, at least on my stereo unit.

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: dwditty
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 07:38 AM

First of all, MP3 is not even close to CD quality, but that is beside the point. The world continues to change, and we need to use caution regarding the free access of art in all its forms. Muscians, authors, poets, artists, etc., in many cases, make their living by the money people pay to obtain that art. There would be far less produced if artists had to create part-time after working a 9-5 to make a living. I have tried Napster, and , yes, it was fun to hear Jaime Brockett's Titanic after not doing so for about 30 years. The fact of the matter is that there will be secure downloads (yes, I know some hackers will beat the security) available on a pay as you go basis (eg. $.99/song). Books are just being made available in this fashion. Soon, graphic art will be, too, I suspect. (I expect printers will soon be able to create "print" quality reproductions of graphic art.) There are companies such as e.digital and netObjects that are involved in this arena. There is an organization called the SDMI (Secure Digital Music Initiative) made up of many companies, including the big 4 Recording companies - Sony, BMG, etc.) that is setting standards for digital music distribution. Please understand, I have no love for the big 4 or companies like them that have been abusing many (but not all) artists for many years. Let's face it, Bittany Spears needs a fair amount of promotion to realize her "success." In the near future, though, many artists will be very successful delivering there own art over the internet - and will make a living doing so. Others will need some other person/company to promote that art in order for them to be successful. The key thing, though, is the artist will be able to choose.

On the other hand, if everything becomes "free," there will be no need for money, etc. (Do I hear Karl Marx in the background?) Of course, the the new dot.com rich will have to give it up as well.

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 01:23 PM

Nicole Leonard...

If samples of yer music are available online, you should give us a URl so's we can go check 'em out!

We're always lookin' fer new tunage!

{~`

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 02:16 PM

Nicole,

Napster is an index and referral service promoting the free exchange of MP3 files among it's registered members. Each registered member has the option of allowing the Napster server to scan the hard drive on his or her home PC and keep a list of all the MP3 files found there. The references are then included in Napster's master index. If someone happens to want one of the tunes you have, Napster, establishes the transfer protocols so the file is copied from your PC to that of the requesting member. Of course, you are also copying MP3 files from the hard disks of other members. There is no charge for becoming a registered member and you are under no obligation to share your MP3 library with others.

What this means to you as a working musician is that if one of your fans is a Napster user and decides to place an MP3 file of your CD on his or her hard drive, you have just gained world-wide distribution. Realistically speaking, you may not see much in the way of returns on the MP3 version of your CD but you may be more than compensated in the form of publicity and additional bookings. I doubt that the MP3 distribution will hurt sales of your CD at gigs. Many people regard them as a memento of having seen you in person in addition to wanting the music.

Now if you really want publicity, wait until you're sure Napster is distributing your CD then call a press conference and announce that you're sueing them for a few hundred million. If you hit the big one and they settle, don't forget Sorcha; I hear her band needs some money to get a CD produced.

Cheers,

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Nicole Leonard
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 06:57 AM

To dwditty, this artist does have to create part-time after working 9-5 to make a living!!! (How do you think we financed the CD?!) I just think of it as like having two lives running in parallel (like Clark Kent and Superman - by day mild-mannered office worker, by night Supermuso!) Actually the quality of the mp3 CD was better than I expected, it is much more compressed than the original but everything sounds like it is meant to (the tin whistles sound like tin whistles, the bouzouki sounds like a bouzouki, etc.) With mp3.com the downloads are free but the artist does get some payment for downloads (out of advertising revenue, I suppose), but I guess with Napster the artist gets nothing, so I am not entirely convinced it is a good thing. We are on www.mp3.com/lothlorien if anyone wants to have a listen.

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Fortunato
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 11:34 AM

I have asked my children not to download music from Napster until there is a consensus out there. I believe it is uncontrollable and will disappear as an issue for that reason in the long run. But in the short run it is an ethical, if not moral, question that must be grappled with. In my mind there is also a computer security question. How would I know if other files were accessed and acquired from my computer? I know Napster is only supposed to do music. Who are they and how do I know they tell the truth?

What have the courts decided? I'll wait for that. In the meantime, it's a bit strange when those who don't own something are so damn eager to give it free to others who don't own it either. Fortunato

Subject: RE: Is Napster a good thing?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 08:36 PM

It costs me, and other collector/producers like me, real money to make our artists' music available to those who enjoy it. If we sell one CD and five copies of it are given away to friends by the purchaser, we are deprived of the profit from the additional sales. Simply put, that means we won't be able to make any new CDs. Of course, like the farmer, we might win the lottery. Then we could just keep on doing what we're doing until the money runs out. If you can think of some way for us to produce new CDs (and also eat, pay the light bill, upgrade our equipment, heat the house, etc.) without any money, please let me know.

I've read that some 14 million people download free music through Napster regularly, while fewer than 2 million download music for which they pay a nominal sum to the producer. I realize that the kind of music we offer is not going to be in great demand on the 'net, but, with us, every individual CD sale helps.

Sandy